We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

On May 28, 7:26 am, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

an old experienced plumber, a visit to every neighbor with an
identical home on soil like yours, a local architect, and a magic 8
ball will all agree: basements are not habitable spaces.
in a basement you could provide natural drainage, and electrical
drainage, and battery pumped drainage, plus add a city water pressure
driven sump pump.
see:
http://www.buildingscienceconsulting...r_basement.pdf
and then 52 pages at:
http://www.buildingscienceconsulting...r_Renovate.pdf

What gets wet when you get the 4-year puddle? What got wet in the bigger
event?

Unless it is something awfully important, I wouldn't go cutting holes in a
basement that seems to be functioning fairly well. A little puddle every 4
years and a bigger event when you have huge amount of rain is something you
can probably deal with.

KB

"Vickie" wrote in message
ps.com...
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

In twenty years, you've never had a problem and this was an unusually bad
storm. Personally I'd leave it alone. It sounds like the water was only
coming up through the floor and not through the walls, so if anything I'd
dig a pit at the location where it came up, and install a sump pump



"Vickie" wrote in message
ps.com...
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

On May 28, 7:26�am, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. *In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. *This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. *We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. *(Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. *We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. *I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. *The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. *I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. *I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. *If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. *We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

FRENCH DRAIN ONLY WAY TO GO!!!

A few years ago with my other home I spent over 8 grand installing a
exterior french drain, regrading yard, new downspout lines to
daylight, and new sidewalks steps etc all made necessary by the
digging. DIY project contractor price twice that

guess what water was back within 2 months

Look you have had a ongoing water problem, by your own statement, and
that storm just made it worse.

When you decide to sell your home you will HAVE to disclose it has a
water problem buyers hate homes with water, and one never knows when
a big storm will reoccur. worse active water flow tends to make future
water flow easier.

The interior french drain with weep holes solves all that. the water
is there no matter what you do. at least this way its redirected to a
safe spot away from your home.

IDEALLY the sump should drain by gravity to daylight well away from
your home, but often thats not a option

After my 8 grand a summers killer work I had a interior french drain
with weep holes installed, for $3500 wish I had tried that first it
dried things up great.

dont cheap out on this, its money well spent.

On May 28, 8:03 am, " wrote:
On May 28, 7:26?am, Vickie wrote:





We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. ?In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. ?This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. ?We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. ?(Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. ?We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. ?I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. ?The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. ?I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. ?I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. ?If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. ?We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

FRENCH DRAIN ONLY WAY TO GO!!!

A few years ago with my other home I spent over 8 grand installing a
exterior french drain, regrading yard, new downspout lines to
daylight, and new sidewalks steps etc all made necessary by the
digging. DIY project contractor price twice that

guess what water was back within 2 months

Look you have had a ongoing water problem, by your own statement, and
that storm just made it worse.

When you decide to sell your home you will HAVE to disclose it has a
water problem buyers hate homes with water, and one never knows when
a big storm will reoccur. worse active water flow tends to make future
water flow easier.

The interior french drain with weep holes solves all that. the water
is there no matter what you do. at least this way its redirected to a
safe spot away from your home.

IDEALLY the sump should drain by gravity to daylight well away from
your home, but often thats not a option

After my 8 grand a summers killer work I had a interior french drain
with weep holes installed, for $3500 wish I had tried that first it
dried things up great.

dont cheap out on this, its money well spent.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


This one is a tough call. It only happened once in 20 years. So,
depending on what's at risk in the basement, the idea of putting in a
sump pump pit in the area where the water was coming in, definitely
has big cost advantages and might be sufficient. On the other hand,
the proposed drain system is a better and more correct solution.

Before I did anything, I'd get outside in the next heavy rain and see
what is actually going on. What you think is happening and what
really is can be different. For example, I suddenly had water coming
in on spot in the basement, which like yours had otherwise been dry.
When I looked outside during a heavy rain, I found that the 4"
corrogated pipe that I thought was taking water away, was in fact not
shoved high enough on the downspout and hence was pouring out right at
the foundation.

Unfortunately water exists in the walls, adding weep holes wouldnt
change a THING but redirect the water away from your home.

Even water under the home can lead to high interior summer humidity
with possible mold growth.

plus whle you may drill into your floor and find gravel it may not be
gravel everywhere, the gravel may have been fill for a low spot
duiring home construction since gravel is way cheaper than thicker
concrete.

any chance of the system draining to daylight? thats the ideal choice

During the big rain event, (while the water was coming into the
basement) we went all around the house and did not see anything
pooling or draining up against the house.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the basement from the floor above. These stairs
are not near any exterior basement wall and we could not really see
how the water was getting there.

________________________________________________

I I

I I
room I
(Basement) I
one
I I
level I I I I I---- leak
area I
up I I I I I at base
of I
I I I I I
stairs I

I I

I I

I I
__________I_____________________________________I


We didn't have an issue around the edges.

Thanks-
Vickie




On May 28, 1:05 pm, " wrote:
Unfortunately water exists in the walls, adding weep holes wouldnt
change a THING but redirect the water away from your home.

Even water under the home can lead to high interior summer humidity
with possible mold growth.

plus whle you may drill into your floor and find gravel it may not be
gravel everywhere, the gravel may have been fill for a low spot
duiring home construction since gravel is way cheaper than thicker
concrete.

any chance of the system draining to daylight? thats the ideal choice

Doesn't look like my response made it. Trying again...

During the big rain event, (while the water was coming into the
basement) we went all around the

house and did not see anything pooling or draining up against the
house.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

__________________________________________________ ______

I
I

I
I
room I
(Basement) I
one
I
I
level I I I I I---- leak
area I
up I I I I I at base
of I
I I I I I
stairs I

I
I

I
I

I
I
___________I______________________________________ ______I


We didn't have an issue around the edges.

Thanks-
Vickie


On May 28, 7:26 am, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Wow, that looked a whole lot better before it posted. Basically the
stairs land at the left edge of the basement, but this side is not
near the outside of the house, rather more in the middle of the
house. The other three walls are border outside.
The water was coming in around the floor at the corner of the bottom
step. There are no cracks there so it must have migrated from another
area we can't see.

Vickie

On May 29, 8:47 am, Vickie wrote:
Doesn't look like my response made it. Trying again...

During the big rain event, (while the water was coming into the
basement) we went all around the

house and did not see anything pooling or draining up against the
house.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

__________________________________________________ ______

I
I

I
I
room I
(Basement) I
one
I
I
level I I I I I---- leak
area I
up I I I I I at base
of I
I I I I I
stairs I

I
I

I
I

I
I
___________I______________________________________ ______I

We didn't have an issue around the edges.

Thanks-
Vickie

On May 28, 7:26 am, Vickie wrote:



We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, 28 May 2007 04:26:54 -0700, Vickie wrote:

We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Basement drainage systems are not about removing water, they are about
removing water pressure. If you do not have water pressure pushing on
your walls, then the piping system should not move that much water. If
you do have pressure, then ignorning it so long as you cant see the water
coming in is akin to burying your head in the sand. The problem still
exists.

Putting in a sump without drains is a waste of money IMHO. If your gonna
do a thing, do it right. If you dont add the piping, it wont fix your
problem. You need something to catch a flash flood of sorts. If there
are no pipes, then it will take a long time for water to weep across the
basement to the sump pit. during that time there will be pressure and
water will be coming in as it is now.


Personally what I would do is put in the sump if you wish, and run just 1
weeping tile from under/around the location where the water is entering
now, to the sump pit. Then if/when you find new locations that leak, add
new weeping tile. I dont think it should cost any more to add these pipes
one at a time so long as you consider expansion when you add the first.
Unless your basement is finished.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 05:37:28 -0700, Vickie wrote:

During the big rain event, (while the water was coming into the
basement) we went all around the house and did not see anything
pooling or draining up against the house.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the basement from the floor above. These stairs
are not near any exterior basement wall and we could not really see
how the water was getting there.


Maybe you should check for a roof leak. I had one in my last home that
revealed itself in the basement before it showed on the first floor. And
it never showed on the 2nd floor.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 06:09:01 -0700, Vickie wrote:

Wow, that looked a whole lot better before it posted. Basically the

That never works with TrueType fonts. You need a regular font, usually
the 'system' font. not sure how to set that for a newsgroup post though.

Hmm, that's a good idea. We did have a roof leaf which was patched a
few years ago, but it was leaking in the attic. (This roof is maybe
10 years old.)

I'm going to try and repost my "diagram" of the leaking area,
hopefully with a more compatible font.

As I paste it here it looks off already, so my apologies if this looks
like garbage once again.



The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the basement from the floor above. These stairs
are not near any exterior basement wall and we could not really see
how the water was getting there.

__________________________________________________ _____

I

I
I
room I
(Basement) I
one
I
I
level I I I I I---- leak
area I
up I I I I I at base
of I
I I I I I
stairs
I

I
I

I
I

I
I
__________________________________________________ _____I


We didn't have an issue around the edges.

Thanks-
Vickie




On May 29, 10:07 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007 05:37:28 -0700, Vickie wrote:
During the big rain event, (while the water was coming into the
basement) we went all around the house and did not see anything
pooling or draining up against the house.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the basement from the floor above. These stairs
are not near any exterior basement wall and we could not really see
how the water was getting there.

Maybe you should check for a roof leak. I had one in my last home that
revealed itself in the basement before it showed on the first floor. And
it never showed on the 2nd floor.

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. *These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.



Probably water coming up from UNDER floor, there are likely anchors of
the steps in the concrete, or a crack and water follows the easiest
path.

I had that in my old houseduring rain the water table would raise.

Having been down this road before I would spend trhe bucks and install
the entire system, it can do NO HARM! and the dry basement warranty is
a plus at hoime sale time

Other than cost do you have anything else you dislike about a
iunterior french drain?

I'm not as concerned of the cost. We've only had water in the
basement that one time. (An occassional small puddle in the corner
every 4 years or so was the only other water.) I've had a few people,
including contractors, say to not get weep holes. Others say to get
them. The idea of them scares me.

Since the water was an issue one time I'm worried that once we dig
down to install trenches and a sump pump we're creating a easy means
of allowing water in, which will now need to be pumped out. It seems
that instead of dealing with water once in a blue moon, as it is now,
we could have a big water problem once all these things are dug if we
have a pump failure. (We bought a battery backup, but still...)

We are also waiting for our radon test results to come in. We live in
northern NJ, which has a higher radon level. I don't want any open
areas, so even if we get this whole system I'd want it closed.


Thank you-
Vickie



On May 29, 4:09 pm, " wrote:
The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. ?These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

Probably water coming up from UNDER floor, there are likely anchors of
the steps in the concrete, or a crack and water follows the easiest
path.

I had that in my old houseduring rain the water table would raise.

Having been down this road before I would spend trhe bucks and install
the entire system, it can do NO HARM! and the dry basement warranty is
a plus at hoime sale time

Other than cost do you have anything else you dislike about a
iunterior french drain?

On May 30, 8:41�am, Vickie wrote:
I'm not as concerned of the cost. *We've only had water in the
basement that one time. *(An occassional small puddle in the corner
every 4 years or so was the only other water.) *I've had a few people,
including contractors, say to not get weep holes. *Others say to get
them. *The idea of them scares me.

Since the water was an issue one time I'm worried that once we dig
down to install trenches and a sump pump we're creating a easy means
of allowing water in, which will now need to be pumped out. * It seems
that instead of dealing with water once in a blue moon, as it is now,
we could have a big water problem once all these things are dug if we
have a pump failure. *(We bought a battery backup, but still...)

We are also waiting for our radon test results to come in. *We live in
northern NJ, which has a higher radon level. *I don't want any open
areas, so even if we get this whole system I'd want it closed.

Thank you-
Vickie

On May 29, 4:09 pm, " wrote:



The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. ?These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

Probably water coming up from UNDER floor, there are likely anchors of
the steps in the concrete, or a crack and water follows the easiest
path.

I had that in my old houseduring rain the water table would raise.

Having been down this road before I would spend trhe bucks and install
the entire system, it can do NO HARM! and the dry basement warranty is
a plus at hoime sale time

Other than cost do you have anything else you dislike about a
iunterior french drain?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

picture your basement like a bath tub sitting in the ground. water is
all around your basement, you cant change that.

but you certinally dont want water IN your basement, or around the
walls, since moisture can wick into your home causing not just puddles
but high humidity. high humidity can lead to mold growth even in
places you cant see. mold is very unheathy and hard to fix. the first
move is keep the place dry.

now the interior french drain with weep holes is the only way to fix
this once and for all.

as is if water collects in any of the interior cavaties of the
concrete block either thru absorbtion or a open joint, it will try to
enter your interior space. wet wall, water puddling along crack at
bottom, things like that.

now with weep holes it has a way out, and enters the french drain and
finally the sump pump.

Is anywhere on your property lower than your basement floor? ideally
the sump should drain by gravity to daylight. no pump necessary. might
require some digging, this home is getting one ran to the curb which
is conveniently lower than the basement.

however millions of pump systems are installed yearly and work fine.
In many areas building codes REQUIRE this system on every new home.
Its not destructive at all! Its REQUIRED because a wet basement can do
so much damage well beyond a puddle on the floor.

At home resale time disclosing wet basement will either kill sale, or
you will be required to spend the bucks and have it fixed, exactly
what your thinking of doing now..... but inflation will likely make it
more costly

If you dont disclose it when the new owner gets water in,, if anyone
says oh that happened before INSTANT lawsuit

A neighbor of mine failed to disclose tree roots in sewer line, new
owner had troubles old owner paid for new line, new wall, line was
under a large retaining wall, new driveway and lawn restoration. Just
told the other day it cost old owner 15 grand including lawyer fees.

As to radon its a problem in my neighborhood too. With the interior
french drain they just cement a PVC line into the drain system and
pull vacuumn against the entire system. This keeps the radon out.

Again its there you cant prevent it from being in your ground just
redirect radon to a safe place thats not inside.

The edge of the system around the floor will need sealed, just a lot
of caulking. no biggie.

There are no downsides to the system.

Again I have been thru all of this, as the owner of a wet basement. I
finally fixed it right, which oddly enough was cheaper than the other
things I had tried.

I have NO connection to any company and am just trying to explain as
best I can whats up.

On May 30, 8:41�am, Vickie wrote:
I'm not as concerned of the cost. *We've only had water in the
basement that one time. *(An occassional small puddle in the corner
every 4 years or so was the only other water.) *I've had a few people,
including contractors, say to not get weep holes. *Others say to get
them. *The idea of them scares me.

Since the water was an issue one time I'm worried that once we dig
down to install trenches and a sump pump we're creating a easy means
of allowing water in, which will now need to be pumped out. * It seems
that instead of dealing with water once in a blue moon, as it is now,
we could have a big water problem once all these things are dug if we
have a pump failure. *(We bought a battery backup, but still...)

We are also waiting for our radon test results to come in. *We live in
northern NJ, which has a higher radon level. *I don't want any open
areas, so even if we get this whole system I'd want it closed.

Thank you-
Vickie

On May 29, 4:09 pm, " wrote:



The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. ?These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

Probably water coming up from UNDER floor, there are likely anchors of
the steps in the concrete, or a crack and water follows the easiest
path.

I had that in my old houseduring rain the water table would raise.

Having been down this road before I would spend trhe bucks and install
the entire system, it can do NO HARM! and the dry basement warranty is
a plus at hoime sale time

Other than cost do you have anything else you dislike about a
iunterior french drain?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if your main concern is pump failure then install TWO sumps both
interconnected by the underground french drain each sump with its own
drain line going outdoors and perhaps each with a battery or if your
on city water a water backup pump.

True it will add some costs but not a whole lot.

Or just add a extra sump pit at a convenient place to exit a pump.

then wait awhile if you see a lot of water volume then have the
contractor or plumber add a second pump.

you may find water volume isnt much, and then you can relax, but know
a extra pump can easily be added any time you want

Thanks for taking the time write all this out.

My property is basically flat, so no area is below the basement
level. A pump is needed. We already purchased a special-order
battery backup pump, which the basement company suggested we do.
(They offered the option to buy it on our own to save some money.) We
ordered a Zoeller 510, which is the same brand of pump the basement
company uses as the main sump.

I had one contractor who was adamantly against weep holes. It's so
confusing.

Vickie


On May 30, 11:55 am, " wrote:
On May 30, 8:41?am, Vickie wrote:





I'm not as concerned of the cost. ?We've only had water in the
basement that one time. ?(An occassional small puddle in the corner
every 4 years or so was the only other water.) ?I've had a few people,
including contractors, say to not get weep holes. ?Others say to get
them. ?The idea of them scares me.

Since the water was an issue one time I'm worried that once we dig
down to install trenches and a sump pump we're creating a easy means
of allowing water in, which will now need to be pumped out. ? It seems
that instead of dealing with water once in a blue moon, as it is now,
we could have a big water problem once all these things are dug if we
have a pump failure. ?(We bought a battery backup, but still...)

We are also waiting for our radon test results to come in. ?We live in
northern NJ, which has a higher radon level. ?I don't want any open
areas, so even if we get this whole system I'd want it closed.

Thank you-
Vickie

On May 29, 4:09 pm, " wrote:

The water was mainly coming in from one area, at the base of the steps
which lead down to the

basement from the floor above. ?These stairs are not near any exterior
basement wall and we

could not really see how the water was getting there.

Probably water coming up from UNDER floor, there are likely anchors of
the steps in the concrete, or a crack and water follows the easiest
path.

I had that in my old houseduring rain the water table would raise.

Having been down this road before I would spend trhe bucks and install
the entire system, it can do NO HARM! and the dry basement warranty is
a plus at hoime sale time

Other than cost do you have anything else you dislike about a
iunterior french drain?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if your main concern is pump failure then install TWO sumps both
interconnected by the underground french drain each sump with its own
drain line going outdoors and perhaps each with a battery or if your
on city water a water backup pump.

True it will add some costs but not a whole lot.

Or just add a extra sump pit at a convenient place to exit a pump.

then wait awhile if you see a lot of water volume then have the
contractor or plumber add a second pump.

you may find water volume isnt much, and then you can relax, but know
a extra pump can easily be added any time you want- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 29, 9:02 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2007 04:26:54 -0700, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Basement drainage systems are not about removing water, they are about
removing water pressure. If you do not have water pressure pushing on
your walls, then the piping system should not move that much water. If
you do have pressure, then ignorning it so long as you cant see the water
coming in is akin to burying your head in the sand. The problem still
exists.

Putting in a sump without drains is a waste of money IMHO. If your gonna
do a thing, do it right. If you dont add the piping, it wont fix your
problem. You need something to catch a flash flood of sorts. If there
are no pipes, then it will take a long time for water to weep across the
basement to the sump pit. during that time there will be pressure and
water will be coming in as it is now.

But apparently in her case, there has been only 1 water problem in 20
years and it was coming in at one specific spot. In this case,
putting a sump pit in that one area could very well work, as the water
doesn't have to come from all areas of the basement., it will be right
near the one trouble spot.




Personally what I would do is put in the sump if you wish, and run just 1
weeping tile from under/around the location where the water is entering
now, to the sump pit. Then if/when you find new locations that leak, add
new weeping tile. I dont think it should cost any more to add these pipes
one at a time so long as you consider expansion when you add the first.
Unless your basement is finished.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 30, 12:27�pm, wrote:
On May 29, 9:02 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:





On Mon, 28 May 2007 04:26:54 -0700, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. *In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. *This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. *We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. *(Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. *We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. *I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. *The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. *I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. *I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. *If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. *We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Basement drainage systems are not about removing water, they are about
removing water pressure. *If you do not have water pressure pushing on
your walls, then the piping system should not move that much water. *If
you do have pressure, then ignorning it so long as you cant see the water
coming in is akin to burying your head in the sand. *The problem still
exists.

Putting in a sump without drains is a waste of money IMHO. *If your gonna
do a thing, do it right. *If you dont add the piping, it wont fix your
problem. *You need something to catch a flash flood of sorts. *If there
are no pipes, then it will take a long time for water to weep across the
basement to the sump pit. *during that time there will be pressure and
water will be coming in as it is now.

But apparently in her case, there has been only 1 water problem in 20
years and it was coming in at one specific spot. * In this case,
putting a sump pit in that one area could very well work, as the water
doesn't have to come from all areas of the basement., it will be right
near the one trouble spot.





Personally what I would do is put in the sump if you wish, and run just 1
weeping tile from under/around the location where the water is entering
now, to the sump pit. *Then if/when you find new locations that leak, add
new weeping tile. *I dont think it should cost any more to add these pipes
one at a time so long as you consider expansion when you add the first.
Unless your basement is finished.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well every 4 years they get other water in. apparently in a different
spot in the basement.

no one has to do anything. maybe being 50 and spending a lifetime of
patches today I prefer to do it right, do it once, then forget about
it and relax. often its less work hassle and cost.

The contractor who recommended against the weep holes that floors me.

they only do anything if water has infiltrated the wall, and you
REALLY DONT want water trapped in the wall.

Maybe I don't understand weep holes very well. I was originally
thinking they were holes going completely through the cinder block to
the ground outside that's basement level, which sounds like it would
be inviting in a lot of water. Are they actually holes drilled
partially into the cinder block from the inside and would release only
trapped water?? If so that's not as bad as I invisioned.

Vickie

On May 30, 3:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 30, 12:27?pm, wrote:





On May 29, 9:02 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 04:26:54 -0700, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. ?In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. ?This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. ?We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. ?(Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. ?We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. ?I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. ?The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. ?I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. ?I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. ?If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. ?We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Basement drainage systems are not about removing water, they are about
removing water pressure. ?If you do not have water pressure pushing on
your walls, then the piping system should not move that much water. ?If
you do have pressure, then ignorning it so long as you cant see the water
coming in is akin to burying your head in the sand. ?The problem still
exists.

Putting in a sump without drains is a waste of money IMHO. ?If your gonna
do a thing, do it right. ?If you dont add the piping, it wont fix your
problem. ?You need something to catch a flash flood of sorts. ?If there
are no pipes, then it will take a long time for water to weep across the
basement to the sump pit. ?during that time there will be pressure and
water will be coming in as it is now.

But apparently in her case, there has been only 1 water problem in 20
years and it was coming in at one specific spot. ? In this case,
putting a sump pit in that one area could very well work, as the water
doesn't have to come from all areas of the basement., it will be right
near the one trouble spot.

Personally what I would do is put in the sump if you wish, and run just 1
weeping tile from under/around the location where the water is entering
now, to the sump pit. ?Then if/when you find new locations that leak, add
new weeping tile. ?I dont think it should cost any more to add these pipes
one at a time so long as you consider expansion when you add the first.
Unless your basement is finished.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well every 4 years they get other water in. apparently in a different
spot in the basement.

no one has to do anything. maybe being 50 and spending a lifetime of
patches today I prefer to do it right, do it once, then forget about
it and relax. often its less work hassle and cost.

The contractor who recommended against the weep holes that floors me.

they only do anything if water has infiltrated the wall, and you
REALLY DONT want water trapped in the wall.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article . com, Vickie
says...

Maybe I don't understand weep holes very well. I was originally
thinking they were holes going completely through the cinder block to
the ground outside that's basement level, which sounds like it would
be inviting in a lot of water. Are they actually holes drilled
partially into the cinder block from the inside and would release only
trapped water?? If so that's not as bad as I invisioned.

Vickie

Yes, that's what they are. And they are a necessary part of the interior French
drain system.

B-Dry (the system I have) puts a thick vinyl cover over the bottom 8 inches or
so of the interior wall to cover the weep holes.

On your problem, I think you can probably two-stage it - first, the sump where
you have an issue. Then, if you still have an issue - the interior drain system
tying into the sump.

Then, as long as you power the pump, you're in good shape.

Banty

yeah they just drain the interior of the block. so water cant get
trapped inside them.

at least do the full drain in the areas effected by water, you can add
more later

On Wed, 30 May 2007 13:49:43 -0700, Vickie wrote:

Maybe I don't understand weep holes very well. I was originally
thinking they were holes going completely through the cinder block to
the ground outside that's basement level, which sounds like it would
be inviting in a lot of water. Are they actually holes drilled
partially into the cinder block from the inside and would release only
trapped water?? If so that's not as bad as I invisioned.

Vickie


What you should really understand is the issue with water. I suppose you
could say there are 2. Discomfort, and damage.

Sump systems are designed to prevent damage. They remove water pressur on
your basement walls, thus avoiding the wall and floor cracks that
eventually come from that pressure.

If you dont think you have a pressure problem, and you just want to stop
water intrusion, then why not find where it is coming in, and patch the
hole. You will be increasing the water pressure on your walls, but if you
insist its not a problem and a rare occurance, then so be it.

I hate to find out later though that you cracked a wall/floor rather than
put in a proper relief system.

On May 30, 9:42�pm, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 13:49:43 -0700, Vickie wrote:
Maybe I don't understand weep holes very well. *I was originally
thinking they were holes going completely through the cinder block to
the ground outside that's basement level, which sounds like it would
be inviting in a lot of water. *Are they actually holes drilled
partially into the cinder block from the inside and would release only
trapped water?? *If so that's not as bad as I invisioned.

Vickie

What you should really understand is the issue with water. *I suppose you
could say there are 2. *Discomfort, and damage.

Sump systems are designed to prevent damage. *They remove water pressur on
your basement walls, thus avoiding the wall and floor cracks that
eventually come from that pressure.

If you dont think you have a pressure problem, and you just want to stop
water intrusion, then why not find where it is coming in, and patch the
hole. *You will be increasing the water pressure on your walls, but if you
insist its not a problem and a rare occurance, then so be it.

I hate to find out later though that you cracked a wall/floor rather than
put in a proper relief system.

its impossible to completely seal walls and floors that absorb and
have cracks and openings from water getting in.

take the typical dry lock paint used on a block wall with water inside
it,

eventually the paint will bubble or the wall crack and mold will
likely grow on the wall,

your much better off keeping the walls dry and redirecting the water
away from your home

On May 28, 7:26 am, Vickie wrote:
We've owned this house (split level) since 1988 and have never had any
basement water issue until the Nor'Easter in April when we had 9" of
rain. In one area the water was coming in pretty fast, enough to
watch it flow in. This was where the basement steps meet the floor.

We corralled the water using water-wicking cloth tubes (QuikWick) and
putting a utility pump inside to drain out the water flowing in.
(Once every 4 years or so we'd see a teenie puddle of water in a
corner but never anything like this.)

Our gutters are good and they drain away from the house. We don't see
any cracks and the walls don't have efflorescence that we can see.

Incidentally, most of the neighbors also had problems who had never
had problems before as well. (Most neighbors do not have sump pumps/
drains either.)

We called some basement waterproofing companies and their solution is
French Drains with a sump pump. We gave one company a deposit for a
French Drain system but are now having second thoughts. I'm concerned
that adding an interior trench, making weep holes in the cinder block
and digging a sump pump ditch will be inviting in water regularly to
keep up with when I only had a problem once. The contractor agreed to
do it without the weep holes, if we'd prefer it that way. I'm getting
concerned about the whole thing. I have already purchased a battery
backup sump pump as well.

I'm afraid we're going to be inviting in water that would otherwise
not come in and be dependant on the sump system to remove it.

A contractor I had here for another project, (not a basement water
contractor), suggested to drill a small opening in the basement floor
and see if there's gravel underneath. If there was then there was no
need for the trenches and we could just do the sump pump. We tried to
drill a hole but the floor is really hard and we couldn't make any
progress with the masonry drill bits.
If there was gravel under the basement cement floor would the sump
pump work without the french drain part?

I'd like to get input from people more familiar with this.

Is this all overkill for a one-time occurrence or is a French Drain
system the right plan?

Thanks-
Vickie

Its a once in a lifetime flood. Who cares! Ignore it, get over it, and
get on with life. People are living in temporary housing because there
house washed away or has 10' of water in the living room because of
that storm. If I were you, I would sit back and relax, and prepare the
the next storm in 20 years.

Thank you, but I do not need to be reminded how others fared worse
than myself and I should just "get over it." I live in a town that
floods regularly and we have mulitple FEMA offices because of it. I
am fortunate to not live in the flood plain by the rivers. Many have
chosen to have their homes reclaimed by the government, after this
last episode.

Last month I gave a deposit to the waterproofing contractor and since
then have gotten a wide range of opinions and suggestions. Before I
spend thousands of dollars I'd like to understand the situation better
so I don't open a Pandora's box of other problems.

Thanks again to the people who've taken the time to be helpful.

Vickie


On May 31, 1:50 am, dean wrote:

Its a once in a lifetime flood. Who cares! Ignore it, get over it, and
get on with life. People are living in temporary housing because there
house washed away or has 10' of water in the living room because of
that storm. If I were you, I would sit back and relax, and prepare the
the next storm in 20 years.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On
Last month I gave a deposit to the waterproofing contractor and since
then have gotten a wide range of opinions and suggestions. *Before I
spend thousands of dollars I'd like to understand the situation better
so I don't open a Pandora's box of other problems.

Thanks again to the people who've taken the time to be helpful.

Vickie

On May 31, 1:50 am, dean wrote:






I have NEVER heard of what your considering making the situation
worse!

one friend had to have the contractor return and add a run under
center of floor, even after all that work a underground stream
surfaced there. the contractor did it for free.

later he found that before his home was built a stream ran thru his
lot, and had been filled in. no wonder he had troubles.

the extra underground run dried things up permanetely. 5 years later
he sold the home the dry basement warranty.

On 30 May 2007 06:55:21 -0700, "
wrote:

At home resale time disclosing wet basement will either kill sale, or
you will be required to spend the bucks and have it fixed, exactly
what your thinking of doing now..... but inflation will likely make it
more costly

If you dont disclose it when the new owner gets water in,, if anyone
says oh that happened before INSTANT lawsuit

I was under the impression the owner had to disclose REPAIRS to solve
a wet basement, but not necessarily disclose the wet basement itself.

For example, in my house the owner installed their own sump pump. But
we quickly found out it's not good enough; in heavy rains we get water
in the basement. He claimed in passing they once had water problems
and got them fixed. But I don't think this was ever officially
disclosed.

Can I go after him to pay for a proper drainage system? How can we
prove that he knew about the problem, and that it's not something new
that occurred since we bought the house (5 years ago)?

If it's a matter of getting neighbors to rat on him, there's no chance
of that, since he was a very popular guy around here...

On May 31, 2:06?pm, DaveR wrote:
On 30 May 2007 06:55:21 -0700, "
wrote:

At home resale time disclosing wet basement will either kill sale, or
you will be required to spend the bucks and have it fixed, exactly
what your thinking of doing now..... but inflation will likely make it
more costly

If you dont disclose it when the new owner gets water in,, if anyone
says oh that happened before INSTANT lawsuit

I was under the impression the owner had to disclose REPAIRS to solve
a wet basement, but not necessarily disclose the wet basement itself.

For example, in my house the owner installed their own sump pump. But
we quickly found out it's not good enough; in heavy rains we get water
in the basement. He claimed in passing they once had water problems
and got them fixed. But I don't think this was ever officially
disclosed.

Can I go after him to pay for a proper drainage system? How can we
prove that he knew about the problem, and that it's not something new
that occurred since we bought the house (5 years ago)?

If it's a matter of getting neighbors to rat on him, there's no chance
of that, since he was a very popular guy around here...

no the seller MUST DISCLOSE ANY PROBLEM, and what was done to fix it.

whats the cost to install a proper drain system? obviously the sump
wasnt enough.

check with a local lawyer.

when I sold a home a few years ago I was warned no disclose I was on
the hook for all repairs the new owner needed if the problem had EVER
been a issue in the past.

On May 31, 5:15 am, Vickie wrote:
Thank you, but I do not need to be reminded how others fared worse
than myself and I should just "get over it." I live in a town that
floods regularly and we have mulitple FEMA offices because of it. I
am fortunate to not live in the flood plain by the rivers. Many have
chosen to have their homes reclaimed by the government, after this
last episode.

Last month I gave a deposit to the waterproofing contractor and since
then have gotten a wide range of opinions and suggestions. Before I
spend thousands of dollars I'd like to understand the situation better
so I don't open a Pandora's box of other problems.

Thanks again to the people who've taken the time to be helpful.

Vickie

On May 31, 1:50 am, dean wrote:





Its a once in a lifetime flood. Who cares! Ignore it, get over it, and
get on with life. People are living in temporary housing because there
house washed away or has 10' of water in the living room because of
that storm. If I were you, I would sit back and relax, and prepare the
the next storm in 20 years.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Vickie, sometimes the best advice of all is the easiest, to just
ignore it. See, won't take long. I was not saying you should ignore it
because I didn't want to give an alternative longer solution, I
genuinely believed (and still do) that you could indeed ignore it and
not spend a penny. Is that not the best solution financially?

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Dean

On May 31, 7:52�pm, dean wrote:
On May 31, 5:15 am, Vickie wrote:





Thank you, but I do not need to be reminded how others fared worse
than myself and I should just "get over it." *I live in a town that
floods regularly and we have mulitple FEMA offices because of it. *I
am fortunate to not live in the flood plain by the rivers. *Many have
chosen to have their homes reclaimed by the government, after this
last episode.

Last month I gave a deposit to the waterproofing contractor and since
then have gotten a wide range of opinions and suggestions. *Before I
spend thousands of dollars I'd like to understand the situation better
so I don't open a Pandora's box of other problems.

Thanks again to the people who've taken the time to be helpful.

Vickie

On May 31, 1:50 am, dean wrote:

Its a once in a lifetime flood. Who cares! Ignore it, get over it, and
get on with life. People are living in temporary housing because there
house washed away or has 10' of water in the living room because of
that storm. If I were you, I would sit back and relax, and prepare the
the next storm in 20 years.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Vickie, sometimes the best advice of all is the easiest, to just
ignore it. See, won't take long. I was not saying you should ignore it
because I didn't want to give an alternative longer solution, I
genuinely believed (and still do) that you could indeed ignore it and
not spend a penny. Is that not the best solution financially?

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Dean- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

nothing is certinally a option. but looking at things the long way.
the biggest investment most of us own is our home so its generally a
good idea to take care of it.

now waiting awhile after the big flood may get you lower prices,
because right now crews are likely very busy.

On 31 May 2007 13:28:35 -0700, "
wrote:


when I sold a home a few years ago I was warned no disclose I was on
the hook for all repairs the new owner needed if the problem had EVER
been a issue in the past.

It makes sense, but how can they prove it?

If you simply say "we never had that problem before" what can they do?

In article , DaveR says...

On 31 May 2007 13:28:35 -0700, "
wrote:


when I sold a home a few years ago I was warned no disclose I was on
the hook for all repairs the new owner needed if the problem had EVER
been a issue in the past.

It makes sense, but how can they prove it?

If you simply say "we never had that problem before" what can they do?

Yep - that's the sticky wicket. Burden of proof is on the accuser (and would
you have it any other way?)

People say - one can get a previous owner to pay that's terrible just terrible
make them pay get a lawyer they should have disclosed (concerning water problems
and any number of other problems).

What the lawyer will go through with one is not only the points of the law, but
what can be shown in court. The conclusion often is not be the satisfying and
lucrative one that people seem to envision when they give this advice.

I had water problems - there was evidence of previous water problems in the
house, but no way to show proof that the current sump pump and cove system on
one side of the basement to address that, didn't fix it. Basement was mostly
finished and in apparent active use. Water was coming in the *other* side - the
side with no efflorescence, etc., to show previous problems. So - how do I
prove it wasn't a change since I moved in? Get neighbors to turn the previous
owner in? But they only moved one county away, and still keep friendships
going. And I have to live next to them, pushing too far might give me another
set of problems.

So, in practicality, it's buyer beware + fix the problems you do find.

Banty

lots of troubles can be proven, take bad sewer, find plumber had
snaked for old owner bam they are on hook, roof leaks, contractor gave
estimate 2 years ago, bam old owner on hook. helping a old girl friend
who was buying home i called roofer i knew to inspect. he arrived and
said need new roof, and chimney needs rebuilt. i said you havent been
up there. he said i have been up there 4 times in last 5 years, fixing
leaks, why bother climbing up again, roof needs replaced.

In article .com,
says...

lots of troubles can be proven, take bad sewer, find plumber had
snaked for old owner bam they are on hook, roof leaks, contractor gave
estimate 2 years ago, bam old owner on hook. helping a old girl friend
who was buying home i called roofer i knew to inspect. he arrived and
said need new roof, and chimney needs rebuilt. i said you havent been
up there. he said i have been up there 4 times in last 5 years, fixing
leaks, why bother climbing up again, roof needs replaced.


OK, you lucked on the same roofer as the old owner had...

But, how do you know otherwise which tradespeople the old owner used? Once in
awhile, there's a service sticker or something, but that may not mean anything.
And *they're* not exactly itching to get involved in a lawsuit either.

Banty

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:44:59 -0700, Banty wrote:


What the lawyer will go through with one is not only the points of the
law, but what can be shown in court. The conclusion often is not be the
satisfying and lucrative one that people seem to envision when they give
this advice.

I had water problems - there was evidence of previous water problems in
the house, but no way to show proof that the current sump pump and cove
system on one side of the basement to address that, didn't fix it.
Basement was mostly finished and in apparent active use. Water was
coming in the *other* side - the side with no efflorescence, etc., to
show previous problems. So - how do I prove it wasn't a change since I
moved in? Get neighbors to turn the previous owner in? But they only
moved one county away, and still keep friendships going. And I have to
live next to them, pushing too far might give me another set of
problems.

So, in practicality, it's buyer beware + fix the problems you do find.

Banty

The lawyer can subpoena repair records from the previous owner. Perhaps
credit card charges or similar stuff looking for plumbing bills related to
the water problem. A private investigator can be hired. if the previous
owner is caught lying, and compounding it by lying in court, hes gonna pay
a nice toll.

Still not easy, but it is doable.

On Jun 4, 3:04�pm, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:44:59 -0700, Banty wrote:

What the lawyer will go through with one is not only the points of the
law, but what can be shown in court. *The conclusion often is not be the
satisfying and lucrative one that people seem to envision when they give
this advice.

I had water problems - there was evidence of previous water problems in
the house, but no way to show proof that the current sump pump and cove
system on one side of the basement to address that, didn't fix it.
Basement was mostly finished and in apparent active use. *Water was
coming in the *other* side - the side with no efflorescence, etc., to
show previous problems. *So - how do I prove it wasn't a change since I
moved in? *Get neighbors to turn the previous owner in? *But they only
moved one county away, and still keep friendships going. *And I have to
live next to them, pushing too far might give me another set of
problems.

So, in practicality, it's buyer beware + fix the problems you do find.

Banty

The lawyer can subpoena repair records from the previous owner. *Perhaps
credit card charges or similar stuff looking for plumbing bills related to
the water problem. *A private investigator can be hired. *if the previous
owner is caught lying, and compounding it by lying in court, hes gonna pay
a nice toll.

Still not easy, but it is doable.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one must be careful the cost to do all this doesnt exceed the cost of
repairs.

In article .com,
says...

On Jun 4, 3:04=EF=BF=BDpm, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:44:59 -0700, Banty wrote:

What the lawyer will go through with one is not only the points of the
law, but what can be shown in court. =A0The conclusion often is not be =
the
satisfying and lucrative one that people seem to envision when they give
this advice.

I had water problems - there was evidence of previous water problems in
the house, but no way to show proof that the current sump pump and cove
system on one side of the basement to address that, didn't fix it.
Basement was mostly finished and in apparent active use. =A0Water was
coming in the *other* side - the side with no efflorescence, etc., to
show previous problems. =A0So - how do I prove it wasn't a change since=
I
moved in? =A0Get neighbors to turn the previous owner in? =A0But they o=
nly
moved one county away, and still keep friendships going. =A0And I have =
to
live next to them, pushing too far might give me another set of
problems.

So, in practicality, it's buyer beware + fix the problems you do find.

Banty

The lawyer can subpoena repair records from the previous owner. =A0Perhaps
credit card charges or similar stuff looking for plumbing bills related to
the water problem. =A0A private investigator can be hired. =A0if the prev=
ious
owner is caught lying, and compounding it by lying in court, hes gonna pay
a nice toll.

??

What plumbing bills would related to a basement moisture intrusion problem ???


Still not easy, but it is doable.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one must be careful the cost to do all this doesnt exceed the cost of
repairs.



Yep. And, I hardly think repair records are like a pilot's flight logs -
they're of course not required of a homeowner; there is a good chance nothing
like that exists. Even if there are, think of all the DIY, cash transactions,
stuff simply left unrepaired. You can spend a pretty penney for not much, very
quickly and very likely.

Not that we shouldn't disclose (I certainly plan to - but I have or will correct
the problems I know of), or that in some cases an undisclosed problem should be
pursued with the previous owner.

But this idea that pops up here in alt.home.repair from time to time that
there's always recourse and disclosure laws "protect" one is folly. It really
doesn't work that way all that often, and several things need to go in one's
favor to be able to prove an intentional non-discosure. The best course is to
carefully look over any house considered to be bought, and be prepared
(including financially) to make repairs as time goes on.

Banty