Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 25, 5:51 pm, Geo wrote:
As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

If you have that much cover, and you use graded, compacted, fill,
there's no problem with the patio pavers. That's the least of your
worries.

The pipe makes no sense, I could come up with theories, but who
knows? The water level is an issue. I'd imagine you've been looking
at this for a relatively short time and haven't experienced heavy
flooding, torrential rains, snow melt - whatever is the worst case
scenario is in your area - so I wouldn't be in a hurry to lay those
pavers until you're very confident you understand the water/drainage
situation.

I'd definitely want to have some drainage in front of that door,
either running to daylight or to a drywell. Concrete slabs will wick
up water, so even if there isn't standing water in the basement, the
high water table could wet the slab, damage stored items and promote
mold growth.

R

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

RicodJour wrote:

-snip-
I'd definitely want to have some drainage in front of that door,
either running to daylight or to a drywell. Concrete slabs will wick
up water, so even if there isn't standing water in the basement, the
high water table could wet the slab, damage stored items and promote
mold growth.

Worth repeating. While you're digging, how hard would it be to make
a drain off to daylight?

Jim

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 26, 6:58 am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

-snip-

I'd definitely want to have some drainage in front of that door,
either running to daylight or to a drywell. Concrete slabs will wick
up water, so even if there isn't standing water in the basement, the
high water table could wet the slab, damage stored items and promote
mold growth.

Worth repeating. While you're digging, how hard would it be to make
a drain off to daylight?

Jim


I don't think it would be too difficult. Just some extra work, but
now's the time to do it.

What's the best way to drain it? Should I slope everything to a low
spot and drop a drain tile in it to daylight?

thanks for the advice.

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On 26 May 2007 05:15:46 -0700, Geo wrote:
-snip-
What's the best way to drain it? Should I slope everything to a low
spot and drop a drain tile in it to daylight?

Pretty much-- I like a variation on 'french drains' - essentially a
ditch filled with gravel. If it were me, I'd probably dig a ditch
about 8" to foot square- line it with 4' wide landscape cloth, throw
down a couple inches of gravel- place some cheap corrugated 4" pipe in
it- fill over and around the pipe with gravel; fold the landscape
cloth over, and fill the top with topsoil. A corrugated pipe covered
with a sock might be as effective and would be a lot easier, but I'm a
creature of habit.

I've found that even a couple inches of cover will withstand
occasional vehicle traffic. If it is likely to be driven over,
though, bury it at least a foot deep. [remember the septic tank
pumper- and don't dig up your leach field]

Jim

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:51:02 -0700, Geo wrote:

As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.


Can you connect this pipe to the sump? If so, now is a good time.

As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.


Water would be pooling because you are deep enough in the ground vs. your
local water table. AND your weeping tile is not connected to anything.
Can you contact the builder about that? probably they need to fix that.
Builder may not even know that was done. Perhaps plumber was skimping and
neighbors have this setup as well..

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 29, 10:53 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:51:02 -0700, Geo wrote:
As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

Can you connect this pipe to the sump? If so, now is a good time.



As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

Water would be pooling because you are deep enough in the ground vs. your
local water table. AND your weeping tile is not connected to anything.
Can you contact the builder about that? probably they need to fix that.
Builder may not even know that was done. Perhaps plumber was skimping and
neighbors have this setup as well..

And it gets even more interesting. I decided to do more digging
(literally) and I found the drain tile on one side of the walkout door
and it just ends - not covered, nothing. Reached in it to clean out
the sediment that formed. So, what I know so far is what it looks
like below:

| o
| o
| o
---------------------------|walkout door|------- o
/o o

/|\
|
drain tile ends

Should drainage tiles be connected all the way around the house even
with the low point of the property being where the walkout door is
located?

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 29, 10:53 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:51:02 -0700, Geo wrote:
As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

Can you connect this pipe to the sump? If so, now is a good time.



As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

Water would be pooling because you are deep enough in the ground vs. your
local water table. AND your weeping tile is not connected to anything.
Can you contact the builder about that? probably they need to fix that.
Builder may not even know that was done. Perhaps plumber was skimping and
neighbors have this setup as well..

And it gets even more interesting. I decided to do more digging
(literally) and I found the drain tile on one side of the walkout door
and it just ends - not covered, nothing. Reached in it to clean out
the sediment that formed. So, what I know so far is what it looks
like below:

| o
| o
| o
---------------------------|walkout door|------- o
/o o

/|\
|
drain tile ends

Should drainage tiles be connected all the way around the house even
with the low point of the property being where the walkout door is
located?

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 29, 10:53 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:51:02 -0700, Geo wrote:
As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

Can you connect this pipe to the sump? If so, now is a good time.



As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

Water would be pooling because you are deep enough in the ground vs. your
local water table. AND your weeping tile is not connected to anything.
Can you contact the builder about that? probably they need to fix that.
Builder may not even know that was done. Perhaps plumber was skimping and
neighbors have this setup as well..

And it gets even more interesting. I decided to do more digging
(literally) and I found the drain tile on one side of the walkout door
and it just ends - not covered, nothing. Reached in it to clean out
the sediment that formed. So, what I know so far is what it looks
like below:

| o
| o
| o
-------------------|walkout door|------- o
/o o

/|\
|
drain tile ends

Should drainage tiles be connected all the way around the house even
with the low point of the property being where the walkout door is
located?

Patio paver over drainage pipe - becomes more mysterious
 

On May 29, 10:53 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:51:02 -0700, Geo wrote:
As those of you who read my initial post know, I'm in the process of
digging out a hole for a paver patio that is outside the walkout
basement - which happens to be the low spot of the property. To
recap, I just removed an old
slab of cement outside the walkout door and as I was digging about 10"
down a water puddle formed along the foundation and I ran in to (what
I thought was) a drainage pipe. This pipe runs parallel to the
foundation about 10" below the level of the basement floor. I
presumed the water drained from this pipe to the sump.

Can you connect this pipe to the sump? If so, now is a good time.



As it turns out the previously mentioned pipe turns out to be an old 5
foot piece of 2.5" pvc that was half under the old concrete slab at
the doorway with the other half just covered by dirt and gravel. The
pipe was sitting on gravel and was atop plastic and parallel to the
house against the foundation. It looks like it was intentionally laid
this way. The thing is the pipe does not connect to anything. It's
just 5 feet of pipe lating there. I can remove it.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is there water pooling
against the foundation. Granted, it's below the level of the basement
floor, but I'm not sure that I can lay a patio atop it. Does this
water pooling suggest that the drain tile is not working correctly or
is this a natural type of occurence? next, can I safely put a paver
on top of it? The water doesn't seem to get any higher than a certain
level. Even if I try to fill the hole it seems to seep in the
ground. It doesn't rise. For patio purposes I suppose I could back
fill the hole with gravel, pack it - that would get me about 10", then
the subbase of the patio wouldbe another 5" with a 1" sand base and
2.5" paver stone.

I'm at a loss here.

Water would be pooling because you are deep enough in the ground vs. your
local water table. AND your weeping tile is not connected to anything.
Can you contact the builder about that? probably they need to fix that.
Builder may not even know that was done. Perhaps plumber was skimping and
neighbors have this setup as well..

And it gets even more interesting. I decided to do more digging
(literally) and I found the drain tile on one side of the walkout
door
and it just ends - not covered, nothing. Reached in it to clean out
the sediment that formed. So, what I know so far is what it looks
like below:
| o
| o
| o
--------------|walkout door|------- o
/o o
/|\
|
drain tile ends
Should drainage tiles be connected all the way around the house even
with the low point of the property being where the walkout door is
located?