Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Hello,
Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Robert11" wrote in message Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Overall, they are very safe, but nothing is perfect. Every year some do start fires. Millions never do. I do keep mine on my wood deck and I don't worry about it. I do follow normal safe precautions and care. It is on the outside rail of the deck, not near the house. If the grill was to burn it would not be shooting flames into the soffits. Just sitting there, it is highly unlikely anything would happen. All the manufacturers recommend you turn off the valve on the tank when not in use. Flare-ups are not a big deal. If you are careful in cooking, they are very infrequent. Chicken is the worst offender, but it can be eliminated with some attention while cooking. At the time the fat starts to render and drip, be ready to move it away from a fire if it starts. . If for any reason a flare-up start, just let it burn out. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Safety-wise, a couple of things...
I wouldn't leave the tank in direct sunlight, and I would close the valve on the tank every time I finish grilling. Not a problem for a wood deck, but you might consider some barrier between the tank and the deckboards - like a scrap piece of wood or a piece of plastic so that the deckboards don't get scratched up or to prevent a permanent LP tank impression. Grease flare ups happen but it's not really a problem if the lid is closed. Happy Grilling! M.Paul "Robert11" wrote in message . .. Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Robert11 wrote:
Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Google (propane+tank+fire) yields over a million hits. Replace "fire" with "explosion" and you get another 334,000 hits. If you value the life of your family and the safety of your home, you'd best eat all your meals at Burger King. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"M.Paul" wrote in
: Grease flare ups happen but it's not really a problem if the lid is closed. UNTIL you open the lid;then WHOOSH. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? As safe as the operator wants them to be. The biggest problem is people turning on the gas with the lid closed and then being unpleasantly surprised at the result when they light the grill. If you follow the instructions there's no problem at all. The propane storage tank is perfectly safe sitting near a house. Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Of course. I wouldn't operate it without having six inches of space between the grill and any structures. Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? No. Unless you are cooking a lot of greasy chicken or pork directly on teh grill, you probably won't have a lot of flareups. Running both burners on high for 10 minutes after cooking goes a long way towards eliminating them the next time. -- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Robert11 wrote:
Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob Overall IF (- BIG IF ) you follow the instructions and cautions they are generally safe. I will make a couple of suggestions. First remember that they do get hot. You should have nothing near (I would say at least 6 foot) them when they are operating that might be damaged by heat or catch fire. Remember the plastic siding can melt! Don't ask me how I know that. As for a deck, I would consider that acceptable IF ( Another BIG IF ) you make sure the deck under it does not become grease soaked. That could be very bad. Also remember that when you turn it off, it is going to remain quite hot for some time. Don't plan on walking away as soon as you turn it off, and never leave a hot grill un-attended. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Robert11 wrote:
Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe. If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Robert11" wrote in message . .. Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob Fire can be your friend or your enemy. As with everything fire, it can be good or bad. I've had a gas grill for lots and lots of years now. I can't say that nothing bad has ever happened, but when I reflect on those, it was my own stupid actions rather than the grill. One time, it didn't light, and I left the gas run for a while before noticing it. Now, common sense, (and the directions) tell you that you should wait 5 minutes for this cloud of gas you are standing in to dissipate before trying to light it again. But noooooo. I'm in a hurry. I hit the button, and for the first time in a long time the sparker actually worked. I lost most of my arm hair, some eyebrows, and it actually slightly burned the surface of my eyes. Not the grill's fault by any means. The next time, I was cooking UNDER one of those shade cloth screens about five feet over the barbecue. Let me tell you what, plastic does not do well over heat, and catches fire very easily. I didn't even notice that it had melted a hole in the sunshade until my helpful wife pointed it out to me. I said oh something, and that I'd move it right after this meal. That is when the chicken flared up. The sunshade did too. Lucky I had a hose right there, and didn't get hit by any of the falling molten globules of plastic that were going zzzziippppppppp zzzzzziiiiipppp zzzzzziiiiiiinnnnnnggggg as they fell off and hit the patio. I don't think you will have any problems with a gas grill. Watch overhangs. Buy one with a good clicker (they do make some with bad ones, usually covered with a rubber bulb that rots in one season), watch to make sure it lights when you click it. Or get some butane barbecue starters at the 99 cent store. Trim the skin and fat from chicken. It will burn. Close the valve when you're done. Go out and check it after each use. I like to leave mine on for ten to fifteen minutes after I cook to burn off the fat and stuff. But when I don't check, I have left them on for as long as sixteen hours. Smell for gas and trust your nose. When it's working right, you don't smell the gas. Keep stuff away from it. Like little kids. My grandson (2 yr old) got a lesson in hot last weekend by touching the one at HIS house. Mama said he screamed and screamed, and the tips of four of his fingers turned white. Have a dedicated space for it, and keep about four feet on each side clear of plastic and silk plants, garden tools, starter fluid for the charcoal, and things that just aren't like the others. There should be NOTHING over it, unless it is high enough not to melt or catch fire. Some people love them, some people hate them. I love them, but just like anything that has to do with fire, you better pay attention, or you'll pay for it. I have a Vermont Castings, and love it for the following reasons: it gets very HOT if I want it to; it has a large heavy lid; it has enamel that is easier to keep clean than SS; it has three burners; it has porcelain grating; it has a GREAT clicker that starts first time every time, and it has a thermometer that actually works. Do not buy an all SS grill unless you want to spend a lot of time making it all shiny. Good luck. Just read the directions and apply liberal amounts of common sense. Steve |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:54 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote: Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? No, but I think they make the food taste good, as with charcoal grills. I keep my grill on cement because that is close to the kitchen, but I've never had any fire reach the cement. So it wouldn't reach a wood deck either. In a very old grill I had fire in the center pipe that holds the whole thing up. I was concerned it would damage the grill, but not that it would spread. It didn't even damage the grill. |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs not 10
pounds. "Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message link.net... Robert11 wrote: Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe. If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:54 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner and I used up what was left in the tank. Which might have been a lot but I didn't really have a way to know. The cover got hot but little or no hotter than a charcoal grill does, I think. |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Robert11" wrote in message . .. Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Outside is where they belong. Turn off the tank when not in use. Use common sense. Compared to rotary lawn mowers, gas grills are very safe. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Funny story. I was lighting the grill and although I am normally super
careful, after turning on the gas, the door bell rang. Do I have to tell what happened next? Incredibly, after returning to the grill and pressing the red button the explosion was only minor and no damage to man or machine. Another friend melted his vinyl siding with his grill. Overall they are safe as long as you don't do stupid things like this. Probably the most dangerous part is transporting the filled tank by car back to the house. "Rick Blaine" wrote in message ... "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? As safe as the operator wants them to be. The biggest problem is people turning on the gas with the lid closed and then being unpleasantly surprised at the result when they light the grill. If you follow the instructions there's no problem at all. The propane storage tank is perfectly safe sitting near a house. Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Of course. I wouldn't operate it without having six inches of space between the grill and any structures. Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? No. Unless you are cooking a lot of greasy chicken or pork directly on teh grill, you probably won't have a lot of flareups. Running both burners on high for 10 minutes after cooking goes a long way towards eliminating them the next time. -- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"mm" wrote in message Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner and I used up what was left in the tank. Only once? I'd say that is better than average. |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. "mm" wrote in message Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner and I used up what was left in the tank. Only once? I'd say that is better than average. I read people in here who were on natural gas, and left it on for months. They realized it when there was snow everywhere except on the barbecue. Steve |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net... Robert11 wrote: Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe. If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. EXT wrote: Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs not 10 pounds. BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very issue I was trying to address. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is not what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the subject of use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the disposable tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:24:04 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "mm" wrote in message Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner and I used up what was left in the tank. Only once? I'd say that is better than average. Hey, I feel a lot better now. Thanks. I read people in here who were on natural gas, and left it on for months. They realized it when there was snow everywhere except on the barbecue. That might be an advantage of propane. It only runs till the tank is empty. Steve |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. "Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is not what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the subject of use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the disposable tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks. Now I'm really confused. I just went and looked at my tank. On the top, it is stamped TW 17.0 , which I would take to mean that the tare weight is 17#. That feels right, about like a bowling ball. This tank is about knee high, and in liquid would say it would hold around five gallons just looking at it. However, full, it weighs a lot. How ARE these things rated? In pounds of liquid in side? In gallons? When I go get them filled, they charge me by the gallon. Help me out, please. Is a 17# empty tank called a 20# because it's approximately twenty pounds empty? Propane weighs 4.24# per gallon, so that's about 21 pounds for five gallons. Is that a rounded number, too? Steve |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Steve B" wrote in message Now I'm really confused. I just went and looked at my tank. On the top, it is stamped TW 17.0 , which I would take to mean that the tare weight is 17#. That feels right, about like a bowling ball. This tank is about knee high, and in liquid would say it would hold around five gallons just looking at it. However, full, it weighs a lot. How ARE these things rated? In pounds of liquid in side? In gallons? When I go get them filled, they charge me by the gallon. Help me out, please. Is a 17# empty tank called a 20# because it's approximately twenty pounds empty? Propane weighs 4.24# per gallon, so that's about 21 pounds for five gallons. Is that a rounded number, too? It will take 20 pounds of liquid. Most fill the tank on a scale and stop when it hits 37# total. Most places also charge a flat fee, not by the gallon. Right now I'm paying $9.99 a fill up. |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
In article ,
"Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? I helped a friend put one together. We were having trouble getting it started, and I was leaning in to see if I could see what was wrong, when it started, with a nice big fireball. It horrified the spectators, as from their point of view, my entire head was suddenly engulfed in a big flame...but the only damage was that my eyebrows were about half as thick as they had been before. I'm just happy that this was long before the days of cell phone video cameras and YouTube. :-) Anyway, consider this: how many news stories have you heard of people being seriously injured by these things? Probably almost none. So, that probably means they are pretty safe. (Well, I suppose it could mean that they are do dangerous that it is no longer newsworthy when they kill someone! :-)) -- --Tim Smith |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message link.net... "Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message link.net... Robert11 wrote: Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe. If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. EXT wrote: Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs not 10 pounds. BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very issue I was trying to address. -- Tom Horne Never heard of that one, around here NO ONE sells 10 pound tanks, they are ALL 20 pounders and most people put them on a deck. In fact, I wouldn't want to have my grill on the grass where I have to move it constantly to mow the lawn and get my feet wet when I am cooking on it. |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:43:13 -0700, Tim Smith
wrote: In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? I helped a friend put one together. We were having trouble getting it started, and I was leaning in to see if I could see what was wrong, when it started, with a nice big fireball. It horrified the spectators, as from their point of view, my entire head was suddenly engulfed in a big flame...but the only damage was that my eyebrows were about half as thick as they had been before. I'm just happy that this was long before the days of cell phone video cameras and YouTube. :-) Congratulations. Not a grill but a car. My brother's car, a 1970 full-size Ford LTD, wouldn't start. It was in a one car garage he rented in Brooklyn. I tried it fix it, by checking if there was spark with one plug wire off, and by spraying ether (starting fluid) into the carburetor. Unfortunately, after getting nowhere with either of these techniques, I did both at the same time, while I had my head under the hood. BLAMMMMMM!!!! Fortunately, I didn't move while this happened or I would have knocked my head on the hood and my neck on the metal edge of it. Not a lot of leeway, so I must not have moved at all. But I looked at one valve cover, the one on my side, of the V-8 and it was ripped from the cylinder head. Of the 6 or 8 bolts holding the cover down, 3 or 4 were ripped sideways, to the inside as the top went up, so that the outer edge of the hole was broken out. And there were 2 or 3 places where the edge of the valve cover was lifted up between the bolts so the exploding gas could escape. I guess the ether was sucked into the carb, the manifold and the cylinders, and then somehow pushed into the valve cover area, and when finally one of the right side cylinders ignited, it lit off the ether in the valve cover. I guess. Couldn't buy a valve cover from the dealer, and no junk yards in NYCity, so I had to buy a pair of chrome covers at a speed shop. I only installed one, so it looked funny, but my brother doesn't care about stuff like that. I forget if I ever started the car or if he had to pay someone. Anyway, consider this: how many news stories have you heard of people being seriously injured by these things? Probably almost none. Exactly that. None. So, that probably means they are pretty safe. (Well, I suppose it could mean that they are do dangerous that it is no longer newsworthy when they kill someone! :-)) |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"tom" wrote In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that, I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence. nancy |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Nancy Young" wrote in message . .. "tom" wrote In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that, I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence. nancy The restoration company that restored our house said that ours was the third rebuild they had done that year as a result of a gas grill fire. The other 2 were a house and a Gazebo. |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"tom" wrote in message hlink.net... "Nancy Young" wrote in message . .. "tom" wrote In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. I can't add anything to the safety discussion other than to think quietly to myself that the danger factor feels kind of overblown. I've heard stories that start out "a friend of a friend of mine had a gas grill and ..." but I've never personally heard "I had a gas grill and...". But whatever. I will say that hands down, old fashioned charcoal (particularly if you get the hardwood charcoal, rather than the manufactured bagged stuff) tastes 100% better than gas-grilled food. Mmmmm.... ash and carbon. Yummy. We had a gas grill, and got rid of it in favor of our trusty Weber. It's no more trouble than (once you factor in the hassle of making sure the propane tank is full - that extra stop at the hardware store is a pain in the ass, imho), and the slightly longer cooking time is totally worth it taste-wise. YMMV, of course. Donna |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On Sat, 19 May 2007 12:39:42 GMT, "Donna"
wrote: "tom" wrote in message thlink.net... "Nancy Young" wrote in message . .. "tom" wrote In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. I can't add anything to the safety discussion other than to think quietly to myself that the danger factor feels kind of overblown. I've heard stories that start out "a friend of a friend of mine had a gas grill and ..." but I've never personally heard "I had a gas grill and...". But whatever. I You can't say that anymore. Because that's exactly what he said. Unless you don't think Usenet is personal. And most grills are kept pretty near the house. My little area is only 8 feet deep so that's as far as I can put it, unlesss I want it in the middle of the yard or on the sidewalk for the mailman to walk around. Actually, I now have a spare tank** and it's only 4 feet from the house, but it's not lit either. **I bought an old tank for two dollars at a junkyard. The junkyard guy asked what I wanted it for. I said, to trade in at Home Depot for a new tank. He was just curious. Ten minutes later I was coming out of HD a half mile away. with the new tank and he was going into HD, for some other reason (no tank in his hand, although I guess he could have left one in the car until he was ready to pick up the new one and leave.) Donna |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is not what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the subject of use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the disposable tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks. Try again. Listed Propane fired cooking grills for use in structures are every bit as large and often larger than the portable outdoor units the OP was asking about. They are very commonly used in restaurants that have no natural gas supply. The ones used for the catering industry for cooking indoors are fitted with a cylinder holder for portable ten pound propane cylinders. That size is seldom found in any industry accept catering. The mere fact that you haven't seen the unit I'm talking about does not mean it does not exist. No I'm not talking about the table top units that are fueled by disposable cartridges. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
EXT wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message link.net... "Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message link.net... Robert11 wrote: Hello, Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a Propane tank. Have never had one before. In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the house) Questions: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? Would you keep it on a wooden deck ? Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ? Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bob This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe. If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. EXT wrote: Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs not 10 pounds. BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are suitable to use in doors. If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very issue I was trying to address. -- Tom Horne Never heard of that one, around here NO ONE sells 10 pound tanks, they are ALL 20 pounders and most people put them on a deck. In fact, I wouldn't want to have my grill on the grass where I have to move it constantly to mow the lawn and get my feet wet when I am cooking on it. Yes I'm aware that ten pound propane tanks are not commonly available. The only place that they are commonly used is in the catering and plumbing industries. They are used in laboratory listed movable gas fired cooking appliances in order to limit the amount of propane that is available to feed any failure of the appliance. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message Try again. Listed Propane fired cooking grills for use in structures are every bit as large and often larger than the portable outdoor units the OP was asking about. They are very commonly used in restaurants that have no natural gas supply. The ones used for the catering industry for cooking indoors are fitted with a cylinder holder for portable ten pound propane cylinders. Great, but what do they have to do with the OP's request about outdoor grill safety? Nothing. In my kitchen, I have a propane powered range supplied by two 100 pounds tanks. Big deal, that has nothing to do with outdoor grills. The only grills I've seen for use with small tanks are the table top models and they are not what the OP asked about either. |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
I serve in Montgomery County Maryland. We have a dispatch for failure
of a BBQ grill at least once a month during the summer. We also have a structural ignition from one of those failures about every third year. Some of the structures have suffered significant damage. We rigorously enforce the code separation of the unlisted portable grills from multiple dwellings but as with many other things there is no effective enforcement at single family detached homes. If you actually read the instructions that come with the portable grills you will see that they are not intended for use in or adjacent to a structure nor on combustible surfaces. Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter. -- Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. Nancy Young wrote: "tom" wrote In article , "Robert11" wrote: How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the attached tank ? The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom, bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill that has several remote shut offs. And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that, I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence. nancy |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter. Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do for a proplane grill installation? First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out. |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
On May 20, 1:03 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter. Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do for a proplane grill installation? First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out. Here's what I found from the National Fire Protection Association regarding gas grills. Basicly, they just say to keep it well away from the house, deck railings, underhangs, etc. I thought the choice of the term "deck railings" was interesting as it would seem to imply that having in on a wood deck itself is OK. http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...ookie%5Ftest=1 The Consumer Products Safety Commission says they should be used 10ft away from the building and not under any overhang, car port, etc, which could catch fire. That would seem to leave the question of a deck open. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97128.html It seems to me that both these agencies don't want to directly address the wood deck issue. Otherwise, given that this is where they are commonly used, you would think they would just openly address decks. Tom cites how many times they get called out to grill fires each summer, but how often do they get called out to kitchen fires? He says they have fire damage to the structure about once every 3 years from a gas grill. Wonder how many kitchens are damaged in 3 years? Unless you look at this in perspective, it doesn't mean much. |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
wrote in message http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...ookie%5Ftest=1 http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97128.html It seems to me that both these agencies don't want to directly address the wood deck issue. Otherwise, given that this is where they are commonly used, you would think they would just openly address decks. Tom cites how many times they get called out to grill fires each summer, but how often do they get called out to kitchen fires? He says they have fire damage to the structure about once every 3 years from a gas grill. Wonder how many kitchens are damaged in 3 years? Unless you look at this in perspective, it doesn't mean much. Kitchen is the leading room for fires http://www.silverlakefd.com/slfd_kitchen.html http://www.iafc.org/displayindustrya...ticlenbr=28375 Based on the annual NFPA fire statistics, it's evident that the kitchen is the highest hazard in homes and should be the primary focus in existing homes. NFPA's January 2005 report, "Home Cooking Fire Patterns and Trends," reveals that in the past 10 years, more than 15 percent of all residential fire deaths, more than 29 percent of all injuries and approximately 30 percent of all residential fires were the direct result of kitchen fires. This report indicates that in 2001, home-cooking fires resulted in 370 civilian deaths, 4,290 civilian injuries and resulted in $453 million in direct property damage. In 2001, there were 134,400 fires originating in the kitchen, of which 117,000 were cooking fires. And these statistics also point to an upward trend in kitchen fires. Looks like about 900 fires per year from grills, but 134,000 from the kitchen. Of course, kitchen cooking is done much more often, but overall, the amount of grill fires is not all that high. I'd venture a guess that most come from stupidity, such as having the grill under the eaves, up against the house. 26% of all fires are cooking related, but here they do not break out grills http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/statistics/n...loss_fire.shtm This is interesting http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v2i3-508.pdf Operational deficiency, or misuse of material ignited, misuse of heat of ignition, accounts for 47% of grill fires. |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
I have to agree with Donna. Charcoal is the way to go tastewise. I can't
see wasting that much money on a device that gives you inferior taste. Might as well cook it in your oven. |
#38
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter. Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do for a proplane grill installation? First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out. Since you are stuck on the idea that portable propane grills that are intended to be used outdoors away from structures are the only type of propane grill in existence the answer is no. I can't explain to you why you might want a gas fitter to pipe a remote gas supply to a listed residential cooking appliance that happens to be a grill fired by propane. Just because you are not familiar with any other type then the portable variety doesn't mean that no other type exists. Tom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. |
#40
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Gas Grill Safety Questions
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message news:1U%3i.17331 Since you are stuck on the idea that portable propane grills that are intended to be used outdoors away from structures are the only type of propane grill in existence the answer is no. I can't explain to you why you might want a gas fitter to pipe a remote gas supply to a listed residential cooking appliance that happens to be a grill fired by propane. Just because you are not familiar with any other type then the portable variety doesn't mean that no other type exists. Tom Horne You seem to be stuck on the idea that the only type of portable grill is for use indoors. Do you ever go to the store and look at he hundreds or brands and styles of outdoor grills offered for sale? The ones on wheels that can be readily moved. That was the type of grill question. You took the thread to indoor portable grills. In any case, portable is just that. Portable, moveable, not tied down, easily moved, not stationary. To think a gas fitter is needed for either type of device fueled by a portable tank (be it 10 or 20 pounds) is absurd. Connecting it to a natural gas line brings in a new set of rules not requested by the original poster. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Natural Gas Grill | Home Repair | |||
Gas grill | Home Repair | |||
Gas grill | Home Repair | |||
Best Gas Grill | Metalworking |