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Default Gas Grill Safety Questions

Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the
house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob


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"Robert11" wrote in message Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?


Overall, they are very safe, but nothing is perfect. Every year some do
start fires. Millions never do.

I do keep mine on my wood deck and I don't worry about it. I do follow
normal safe precautions and care. It is on the outside rail of the deck,
not near the house. If the grill was to burn it would not be shooting
flames into the soffits.

Just sitting there, it is highly unlikely anything would happen. All the
manufacturers recommend you turn off the valve on the tank when not in use.

Flare-ups are not a big deal. If you are careful in cooking, they are very
infrequent. Chicken is the worst offender, but it can be eliminated with
some attention while cooking. At the time the fat starts to render and
drip, be ready to move it away from a fire if it starts. . If for any
reason a flare-up start, just let it burn out.


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Safety-wise, a couple of things...
I wouldn't leave the tank in direct sunlight, and
I would close the valve on the tank every time I finish grilling.

Not a problem for a wood deck, but you might consider some barrier between
the tank and the deckboards - like a scrap piece of wood or a piece of
plastic so that the deckboards don't get scratched up or to prevent a
permanent LP tank impression.

Grease flare ups happen but it's not really a problem if the lid is closed.

Happy Grilling!
M.Paul

"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to

the
house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob




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Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one
of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run
off of a Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached
to the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.


Google (propane+tank+fire) yields over a million hits. Replace "fire" with
"explosion" and you get another 334,000 hits.

If you value the life of your family and the safety of your home, you'd best
eat all your meals at Burger King.


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"M.Paul" wrote in
:



Grease flare ups happen but it's not really a problem if the lid is
closed.


UNTIL you open the lid;then WHOOSH.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


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"Robert11" wrote:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


As safe as the operator wants them to be. The biggest problem is people turning
on the gas with the lid closed and then being unpleasantly surprised at the
result when they light the grill. If you follow the instructions there's no
problem at all.

The propane storage tank is perfectly safe sitting near a house.

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?


Of course. I wouldn't operate it without having six inches of space between the
grill and any structures.

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?


No. Unless you are cooking a lot of greasy chicken or pork directly on teh
grill, you probably won't have a lot of flareups. Running both burners on high
for 10 minutes after cooking goes a long way towards eliminating them the next
time.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one
of those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run
off of a Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached
to the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob


Overall IF (- BIG IF ) you follow the instructions and cautions they
are generally safe. I will make a couple of suggestions. First remember
that they do get hot. You should have nothing near (I would say at least 6
foot) them when they are operating that might be damaged by heat or catch
fire. Remember the plastic siding can melt! Don't ask me how I know that.
As for a deck, I would consider that acceptable IF ( Another BIG IF ) you
make sure the deck under it does not become grease soaked. That could be
very bad.

Also remember that when you turn it off, it is going to remain quite hot
for some time. Don't plan on walking away as soon as you turn it off, and
never leave a hot grill un-attended.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



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Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to the
house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob


This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede
in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is
in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or
in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a
nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not
listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to
prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has
to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill.
If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of
those cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The
National Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located
a specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck.
Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is
observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that
use safe.

If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor
it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install
the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The
reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that
it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over
pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and
thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to
the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply
insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely
approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to
the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob


Fire can be your friend or your enemy. As with everything fire, it can be
good or bad. I've had a gas grill for lots and lots of years now. I can't
say that nothing bad has ever happened, but when I reflect on those, it was
my own stupid actions rather than the grill.

One time, it didn't light, and I left the gas run for a while before
noticing it. Now, common sense, (and the directions) tell you that you
should wait 5 minutes for this cloud of gas you are standing in to dissipate
before trying to light it again. But noooooo. I'm in a hurry. I hit the
button, and for the first time in a long time the sparker actually worked.
I lost most of my arm hair, some eyebrows, and it actually slightly burned
the surface of my eyes. Not the grill's fault by any means.

The next time, I was cooking UNDER one of those shade cloth screens about
five feet over the barbecue. Let me tell you what, plastic does not do well
over heat, and catches fire very easily. I didn't even notice that it had
melted a hole in the sunshade until my helpful wife pointed it out to me. I
said oh something, and that I'd move it right after this meal. That is when
the chicken flared up. The sunshade did too. Lucky I had a hose right
there, and didn't get hit by any of the falling molten globules of plastic
that were going zzzziippppppppp zzzzzziiiiipppp zzzzzziiiiiiinnnnnnggggg as
they fell off and hit the patio.

I don't think you will have any problems with a gas grill. Watch overhangs.
Buy one with a good clicker (they do make some with bad ones, usually
covered with a rubber bulb that rots in one season), watch to make sure it
lights when you click it. Or get some butane barbecue starters at the 99
cent store.

Trim the skin and fat from chicken. It will burn.

Close the valve when you're done. Go out and check it after each use. I
like to leave mine on for ten to fifteen minutes after I cook to burn off
the fat and stuff. But when I don't check, I have left them on for as long
as sixteen hours.

Smell for gas and trust your nose. When it's working right, you don't smell
the gas.

Keep stuff away from it. Like little kids. My grandson (2 yr old) got a
lesson in hot last weekend by touching the one at HIS house. Mama said he
screamed and screamed, and the tips of four of his fingers turned white.

Have a dedicated space for it, and keep about four feet on each side clear
of plastic and silk plants, garden tools, starter fluid for the charcoal,
and things that just aren't like the others. There should be NOTHING over
it, unless it is high enough not to melt or catch fire.

Some people love them, some people hate them. I love them, but just like
anything that has to do with fire, you better pay attention, or you'll pay
for it. I have a Vermont Castings, and love it for the following reasons:
it gets very HOT if I want it to; it has a large heavy lid; it has enamel
that is easier to keep clean than SS; it has three burners; it has porcelain
grating; it has a GREAT clicker that starts first time every time, and it
has a thermometer that actually works.

Do not buy an all SS grill unless you want to spend a lot of time making it
all shiny.

Good luck. Just read the directions and apply liberal amounts of common
sense.

Steve


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On Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:54 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:



Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?


No, but I think they make the food taste good, as with charcoal
grills.

I keep my grill on cement because that is close to the kitchen, but
I've never had any fire reach the cement. So it wouldn't reach a wood
deck either.

In a very old grill I had fire in the center pipe that holds the whole
thing up. I was concerned it would damage the grill, but not that it
would spread. It didn't even damage the grill.



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Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs not 10
pounds.


"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to
the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob


This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in
advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in
fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a
structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally
recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as
cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent
tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a
shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the
grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those
cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel
Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific
distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said
that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in
the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe.

If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it
in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the
supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason
that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes
a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized
and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the
duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire.
The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence
of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the
gas when a problem occurs at the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.



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On Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:54 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:


How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner
and I used up what was left in the tank. Which might have been a lot
but I didn't really have a way to know. The cover got hot but little
or no hotter than a charcoal grill does, I think.
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"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to
the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.


Outside is where they belong. Turn off the tank when not in use. Use
common sense.

Compared to rotary lawn mowers, gas grills are very safe.


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Funny story. I was lighting the grill and although I am normally super
careful, after turning on the gas, the door bell rang. Do I have to tell
what happened next? Incredibly, after returning to the grill and pressing
the red button the explosion was only minor and no damage to man or machine.

Another friend melted his vinyl siding with his grill.


Overall they are safe as long as you don't do stupid things like this.
Probably the most dangerous part is transporting the filled tank by car back
to the house.


"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
"Robert11" wrote:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


As safe as the operator wants them to be. The biggest problem is people
turning
on the gas with the lid closed and then being unpleasantly surprised at
the
result when they light the grill. If you follow the instructions there's
no
problem at all.

The propane storage tank is perfectly safe sitting near a house.

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?


Of course. I wouldn't operate it without having six inches of space
between the
grill and any structures.

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?


No. Unless you are cooking a lot of greasy chicken or pork directly on teh
grill, you probably won't have a lot of flareups. Running both burners on
high
for 10 minutes after cooking goes a long way towards eliminating them the
next
time.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars



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"mm" wrote in message

Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner
and I used up what was left in the tank.


Only once? I'd say that is better than average.




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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"mm" wrote in message

Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner
and I used up what was left in the tank.


Only once? I'd say that is better than average.


I read people in here who were on natural gas, and left it on for months.
They realized it when there was snow everywhere except on the barbecue.

Steve


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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of a
Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached to
the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede in
advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is in
fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or in a
structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a nationally
recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not listed as
cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to prevent
tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has to be a
shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill. If the
grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those
cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National Fuel
Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a specific
distance away from the structure and that includes the deck. Having said
that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is observed more in
the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that use safe.

If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor it
in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install the
supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The reason
that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that it takes
a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over pressurized
and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and thus limits the
duration of the exposure of the structural elements to the gas fed fire.
The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply insures the existence
of a remote shut off valve that can be safely approached to shut off the
gas when a problem occurs at the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.


EXT wrote:
Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs
not 10 pounds.



BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except
any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done
deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a
building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking
appliances that are suitable to use in doors.

If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very
issue I was trying to address.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message

BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any
tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately
to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building.
Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are
suitable to use in doors.


You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is not
what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the subject of
use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the disposable
tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks.


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On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:24:04 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message

Not imo a safety issue, but I did once forget to turn off the burner
and I used up what was left in the tank.


Only once? I'd say that is better than average.


Hey, I feel a lot better now. Thanks.


I read people in here who were on natural gas, and left it on for months.
They realized it when there was snow everywhere except on the barbecue.


That might be an advantage of propane. It only runs till the tank is
empty.

Steve


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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message

BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except
any tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done
deliberately to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a
building. Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking
appliances that are suitable to use in doors.


You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is
not what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the
subject of use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the
disposable tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks.


Now I'm really confused. I just went and looked at my tank. On the top, it
is stamped TW 17.0 , which I would take to mean that the tare weight is 17#.
That feels right, about like a bowling ball. This tank is about knee high,
and in liquid would say it would hold around five gallons just looking at
it. However, full, it weighs a lot. How ARE these things rated? In pounds
of liquid in side? In gallons? When I go get them filled, they charge me
by the gallon. Help me out, please. Is a 17# empty tank called a 20#
because it's approximately twenty pounds empty? Propane weighs 4.24# per
gallon, so that's about 21 pounds for five gallons. Is that a rounded
number, too?

Steve




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"Steve B" wrote in message

Now I'm really confused. I just went and looked at my tank. On the top,
it is stamped TW 17.0 , which I would take to mean that the tare weight is
17#. That feels right, about like a bowling ball. This tank is about knee
high, and in liquid would say it would hold around five gallons just
looking at it. However, full, it weighs a lot. How ARE these things
rated? In pounds of liquid in side? In gallons? When I go get them
filled, they charge me by the gallon. Help me out, please. Is a 17#
empty tank called a 20# because it's approximately twenty pounds empty?
Propane weighs 4.24# per gallon, so that's about 21 pounds for five
gallons. Is that a rounded number, too?


It will take 20 pounds of liquid. Most fill the tank on a scale and stop
when it hits 37# total. Most places also charge a flat fee, not by the
gallon. Right now I'm paying $9.99 a fill up.


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In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


I helped a friend put one together. We were having trouble getting it
started, and I was leaning in to see if I could see what was wrong, when
it started, with a nice big fireball. It horrified the spectators, as
from their point of view, my entire head was suddenly engulfed in a big
flame...but the only damage was that my eyebrows were about half as
thick as they had been before. I'm just happy that this was long before
the days of cell phone video cameras and YouTube. :-)

Anyway, consider this: how many news stories have you heard of people
being seriously injured by these things? Probably almost none.

So, that probably means they are pretty safe. (Well, I suppose it could
mean that they are do dangerous that it is no longer newsworthy when
they kill someone! :-))

--
--Tim Smith
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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of
a Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached
to the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob
This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede
in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is
in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or
in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a
nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not
listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to
prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has
to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill.
If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those
cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National
Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a
specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck.
Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is
observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that
use safe.

If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor
it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install
the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The
reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that
it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over
pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and
thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to
the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply
insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely
approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.


EXT wrote:
Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs
not 10 pounds.



BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any
tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately
to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building.
Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are
suitable to use in doors.

If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very
issue I was trying to address.
--
Tom Horne


Never heard of that one, around here NO ONE sells 10 pound tanks, they are
ALL 20 pounders and most people put them on a deck. In fact, I wouldn't want
to have my grill on the grass where I have to move it constantly to mow the
lawn and get my feet wet when I am cooking on it.


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In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill
that has several remote shut offs.


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On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:43:13 -0700, Tim Smith
wrote:

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with the
attached tank ?


I helped a friend put one together. We were having trouble getting it
started, and I was leaning in to see if I could see what was wrong, when
it started, with a nice big fireball. It horrified the spectators, as
from their point of view, my entire head was suddenly engulfed in a big
flame...but the only damage was that my eyebrows were about half as
thick as they had been before. I'm just happy that this was long before
the days of cell phone video cameras and YouTube. :-)


Congratulations.

Not a grill but a car. My brother's car, a 1970 full-size Ford LTD,
wouldn't start. It was in a one car garage he rented in Brooklyn. I
tried it fix it, by checking if there was spark with one plug wire
off, and by spraying ether (starting fluid) into the carburetor.
Unfortunately, after getting nowhere with either of these techniques,
I did both at the same time, while I had my head under the hood.
BLAMMMMMM!!!!

Fortunately, I didn't move while this happened or I would have knocked
my head on the hood and my neck on the metal edge of it. Not a lot of
leeway, so I must not have moved at all.

But I looked at one valve cover, the one on my side, of the V-8 and it
was ripped from the cylinder head. Of the 6 or 8 bolts holding the
cover down, 3 or 4 were ripped sideways, to the inside as the top went
up, so that the outer edge of the hole was broken out. And there were
2 or 3 places where the edge of the valve cover was lifted up between
the bolts so the exploding gas could escape.

I guess the ether was sucked into the carb, the manifold and the
cylinders, and then somehow pushed into the valve cover area, and when
finally one of the right side cylinders ignited, it lit off the ether
in the valve cover. I guess.


Couldn't buy a valve cover from the dealer, and no junk yards in
NYCity, so I had to buy a pair of chrome covers at a speed shop. I
only installed one, so it looked funny, but my brother doesn't care
about stuff like that. I forget if I ever started the car or if he
had to pay someone.

Anyway, consider this: how many news stories have you heard of people
being seriously injured by these things? Probably almost none.


Exactly that. None.

So, that probably means they are pretty safe. (Well, I suppose it could
mean that they are do dangerous that it is no longer newsworthy when
they kill someone! :-))






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"tom" wrote

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the
attached tank ?


The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full
tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except
put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a
bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill
that has several remote shut offs.


And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them
within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that,
I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence.

nancy


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"Nancy Young" wrote in message
. ..

"tom" wrote

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the
attached tank ?


The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full
tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except
put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a
bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas

grill
that has several remote shut offs.


And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them
within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that,
I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence.

nancy

The restoration company that restored our house said that ours was the third
rebuild they had done that year as a result of a gas grill fire. The other 2
were a house and a Gazebo.


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"tom" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
. ..

"tom" wrote

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the
attached tank ?

The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full
tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except
put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a
bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas

grill
that has several remote shut offs.


I can't add anything to the safety discussion other than to think quietly to
myself that the danger factor feels kind of overblown. I've heard stories
that start out "a friend of a friend of mine had a gas grill and ..." but
I've never personally heard "I had a gas grill and...". But whatever. I
will say that hands down, old fashioned charcoal (particularly if you get
the hardwood charcoal, rather than the manufactured bagged stuff) tastes
100% better than gas-grilled food. Mmmmm.... ash and carbon. Yummy.

We had a gas grill, and got rid of it in favor of our trusty Weber. It's
no more trouble than (once you factor in the hassle of making sure the
propane tank is full - that extra stop at the hardware store is a pain in
the ass, imho), and the slightly longer cooking time is totally worth it
taste-wise. YMMV, of course.

Donna


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On Sat, 19 May 2007 12:39:42 GMT, "Donna"
wrote:


"tom" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
. ..

"tom" wrote

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the
attached tank ?

The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full
tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except
put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a
bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas

grill
that has several remote shut offs.


I can't add anything to the safety discussion other than to think quietly to
myself that the danger factor feels kind of overblown. I've heard stories
that start out "a friend of a friend of mine had a gas grill and ..." but
I've never personally heard "I had a gas grill and...". But whatever. I


You can't say that anymore. Because that's exactly what he said.
Unless you don't think Usenet is personal.

And most grills are kept pretty near the house. My little area is
only 8 feet deep so that's as far as I can put it, unlesss I want it
in the middle of the yard or on the sidewalk for the mailman to walk
around. Actually, I now have a spare tank** and it's only 4 feet from
the house, but it's not lit either.

**I bought an old tank for two dollars at a junkyard. The junkyard
guy asked what I wanted it for. I said, to trade in at Home Depot for
a new tank. He was just curious. Ten minutes later I was coming out
of HD a half mile away. with the new tank and he was going into HD,
for some other reason (no tank in his hand, although I guess he could
have left one in the car until he was ready to pick up the new one and
leave.)

Donna


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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any
tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately
to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building.
Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are
suitable to use in doors.


You are talking about the tiny grills that are about worthless. That is not
what the OP is looking for and really has little to do with the subject of
use on a deck. Those things are table top units that use the disposable
tanks. Real grills use the 20 pound tanks.

Try again. Listed Propane fired cooking grills for use in structures
are every bit as large and often larger than the portable outdoor units
the OP was asking about. They are very commonly used in restaurants
that have no natural gas supply. The ones used for the catering
industry for cooking indoors are fitted with a cylinder holder for
portable ten pound propane cylinders. That size is seldom found in any
industry accept catering. The mere fact that you haven't seen the unit
I'm talking about does not mean it does not exist. No I'm not talking
about the table top units that are fueled by disposable cartridges.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.


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EXT wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
link.net...
Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Guess I'm succumbing like so many others, and considering buying one of
those Gas Grills that seem to be everywhere. The ones that run off of
a Propane tank.

Have never had one before.

In my case, it would be placed, probably, on my wooden deck (attached
to the house)

Questions:

How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the attached tank ?

Would you keep it on a wooden deck ?

Are grease flare-ups while cooking a real safety concern ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob
This will probably raise some hackles but such is life. I will concede
in advance that what you propose to do is very commonly done but it is
in fact illegal in many places. In order for the grill to be used on or
in a structure it has to be listed as a cooking appliance by a
nationally recognized testing laboratory. Most movable grills are not
listed as cooking appliances. Listed grills are fastened in place to
prevent tipping and are supplied from a remote supply of Gas. There has
to be a shut off in the supply piping immediately adjacent to the grill.
If the grill is to be supplied by portable gas bottles the size of those
cylinders is limited to a nominal ten pounds capacity. The National
Fuel Gas Code requires that unlisted movable grills be located a
specific distance away from the structure and that includes the deck.
Having said that let me say that I realize that the Fuel Gas Code is
observed more in the breech in this regard but that doesn't make that
use safe.

If you actually do want a safe installation buy a listed grill, anchor
it in accordance with the manufactures instructions, and either install
the supply cylinders remotely or use the ten pound capacity ones. The
reason that the code limits the portable cylinders to ten pounds is that
it takes a lot shorter time for a ten pound cylinder to vent if over
pressurized and that limits the time that the vent fire will last and
thus limits the duration of the exposure of the structural elements to
the gas fed fire. The use of a remote tank when using a larger supply
insures the existence of a remote shut off valve that can be safely
approached to shut off the gas when a problem occurs at the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

EXT wrote:
Check your numbers, a 20 pound cylinder is the standard used for BBQs
not 10 pounds.


BBQ grills that are listed for use in or on a dwelling will not except any
tank larger than 10 pounds without an adapter. That is done deliberately
to prevent the use of the larger propane cylinders inside a building.
Most regular BBQ grills are not listed as gas cooking appliances that are
suitable to use in doors.

If you reread my entire posting carefully you will see that is the very
issue I was trying to address.
--
Tom Horne


Never heard of that one, around here NO ONE sells 10 pound tanks, they are
ALL 20 pounders and most people put them on a deck. In fact, I wouldn't want
to have my grill on the grass where I have to move it constantly to mow the
lawn and get my feet wet when I am cooking on it.

Yes I'm aware that ten pound propane tanks are not commonly available.
The only place that they are commonly used is in the catering and
plumbing industries. They are used in laboratory listed movable gas
fired cooking appliances in order to limit the amount of propane that is
available to feed any failure of the appliance.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
Try again. Listed Propane fired cooking grills for use in structures are
every bit as large and often larger than the portable outdoor units the OP
was asking about. They are very commonly used in restaurants that have no
natural gas supply. The ones used for the catering industry for cooking
indoors are fitted with a cylinder holder for portable ten pound propane
cylinders.


Great, but what do they have to do with the OP's request about outdoor grill
safety? Nothing.

In my kitchen, I have a propane powered range supplied by two 100 pounds
tanks. Big deal, that has nothing to do with outdoor grills.

The only grills I've seen for use with small tanks are the table top models
and they are not what the OP asked about either.


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I serve in Montgomery County Maryland. We have a dispatch for failure
of a BBQ grill at least once a month during the summer. We also have a
structural ignition from one of those failures about every third year.
Some of the structures have suffered significant damage. We rigorously
enforce the code separation of the unlisted portable grills from
multiple dwellings but as with many other things there is no effective
enforcement at single family detached homes. If you actually read the
instructions that come with the portable grills you will see that they
are not intended for use in or adjacent to a structure nor on
combustible surfaces.

Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed
unit and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

Nancy Young wrote:
"tom" wrote

In article ,
"Robert11" wrote:
How "safe" are these things, both in use and just sitting there with
the
attached tank ?

The flexible hose on our LP gas grill failed while in use and the full
tank
turned into a blow torch spewing a 6 foot flame against the back of our
house 8 years ago. Even the firemen couldn't do anything with it except
put
water on it and let the tank burn itself out. The fire destroyed a
bedroom,
bathroom and burned off about half the roof. I now use a natural gas grill
that has several remote shut offs.


And that's one reason you're not supposed to store or use them
within whatever (15, often) feet of a dwelling. Having said that,
I think what happened to you is a pretty rare occurence.

nancy


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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message

Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit
and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter.


Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do
for a proplane grill installation?

First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect
the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas
fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out.



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On May 20, 1:03 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message



Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit
and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter.


Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do
for a proplane grill installation?

First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect
the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas
fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out.


Here's what I found from the National Fire Protection Association
regarding gas grills. Basicly, they just say to keep it well away
from the house, deck railings, underhangs, etc. I thought the choice
of the term "deck railings" was interesting as it would seem to imply
that having in on a wood deck itself is OK.

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...ookie%5Ftest=1


The Consumer Products Safety Commission says they should be used 10ft
away from the building and not under any overhang, car port, etc,
which could catch fire. That would seem to leave the question of a
deck open.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97128.html

It seems to me that both these agencies don't want to directly address
the wood deck issue. Otherwise, given that this is where they are
commonly used, you would think they would just openly address decks.

Tom cites how many times they get called out to grill fires each
summer, but how often do they get called out to kitchen fires? He
says they have fire damage to the structure about once every 3 years
from a gas grill. Wonder how many kitchens are damaged in 3 years?
Unless you look at this in perspective, it doesn't mean much.



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wrote in message

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...ookie%5Ftest=1


http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97128.html

It seems to me that both these agencies don't want to directly address
the wood deck issue. Otherwise, given that this is where they are
commonly used, you would think they would just openly address decks.

Tom cites how many times they get called out to grill fires each
summer, but how often do they get called out to kitchen fires? He
says they have fire damage to the structure about once every 3 years
from a gas grill. Wonder how many kitchens are damaged in 3 years?
Unless you look at this in perspective, it doesn't mean much.



Kitchen is the leading room for fires
http://www.silverlakefd.com/slfd_kitchen.html

http://www.iafc.org/displayindustrya...ticlenbr=28375
Based on the annual NFPA fire statistics, it's evident that the kitchen is
the highest hazard in homes and should be the primary focus in existing
homes. NFPA's January 2005 report, "Home Cooking Fire Patterns and Trends,"
reveals that in the past 10 years, more than 15 percent of all residential
fire deaths, more than 29 percent of all injuries and approximately 30
percent of all residential fires were the direct result of kitchen fires.
This report indicates that in 2001, home-cooking fires resulted in 370
civilian deaths, 4,290 civilian injuries and resulted in $453 million in
direct property damage. In 2001, there were 134,400 fires originating in the
kitchen, of which 117,000 were cooking fires. And these statistics also
point to an upward trend in kitchen fires.

Looks like about 900 fires per year from grills, but 134,000 from the
kitchen. Of course, kitchen cooking is done much more often, but overall,
the amount of grill fires is not all that high. I'd venture a guess that
most come from stupidity, such as having the grill under the eaves, up
against the house.

26% of all fires are cooking related, but here they do not break out grills
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/statistics/n...loss_fire.shtm

This is interesting http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v2i3-508.pdf

Operational deficiency, or misuse of material ignited, misuse of heat of
ignition, accounts for 47% of grill fires.


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I have to agree with Donna. Charcoal is the way to go tastewise. I can't
see wasting that much money on a device that gives you inferior taste.
Might as well cook it in your oven.

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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit
and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter.


Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do
for a proplane grill installation?

First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect
the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas
fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out.

Since you are stuck on the idea that portable propane grills that are
intended to be used outdoors away from structures are the only type of
propane grill in existence the answer is no. I can't explain to you why
you might want a gas fitter to pipe a remote gas supply to a listed
residential cooking appliance that happens to be a grill fired by
propane. Just because you are not familiar with any other type then the
portable variety doesn't mean that no other type exists.

Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
Look if you want one on your deck then pay a little more for a listed unit
and have it installed by a licensed gas fitter.


On May 20, 1:03 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Could you explain this more please? What, exactly, is a gas fitter to do
for a proplane grill installation?

First, you read the instructions. You wheel it up on the deck, you connect
the tank, check for leaks, you fire it up. I'm j ust now sure what the gas
fitter's job is here that I should pay $100 to have one come out.


wrote:
Here's what I found from the National Fire Protection Association
regarding gas grills. Basicly, they just say to keep it well away
from the house, deck railings, underhangs, etc. I thought the choice
of the term "deck railings" was interesting as it would seem to imply
that having in on a wood deck itself is OK.

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...ookie%5Ftest=1


The Consumer Products Safety Commission says they should be used 10ft
away from the building and not under any overhang, car port, etc,
which could catch fire. That would seem to leave the question of a
deck open.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97128.html

It seems to me that both these agencies don't want to directly address
the wood deck issue. Otherwise, given that this is where they are
commonly used, you would think they would just openly address decks.

Tom cites how many times they get called out to grill fires each
summer, but how often do they get called out to kitchen fires? He
says they have fire damage to the structure about once every 3 years
from a gas grill. Wonder how many kitchens are damaged in 3 years?
Unless you look at this in perspective, it doesn't mean much.

You have hit on the very heart of the matter. Cooking has inherent
hazards. To reduce those hazards the National Fuel Gas Code, which is
adopted as law in many places, requires that gas fired cooking
appliances that will be used in a structure be tested and listed by a
testing laboratory. When you cook in your home you use a listed
residential cooking appliance because it has been tested to be safe in
normal use. In other words it will not set the house on fire or CO
poison the occupants if they are in good repair and are used in
accordance with the manufacturers instructions. No such testing has
been done on the portable gas grills the OP was inquiring about.
Unlisted cooking appliances such as portable gas grills, camping stoves,
turkey fryers, charcoal grills, etc. are unsafe to use in, or in close
proximity to, a structure. Using a portable gas grill as a substitute
for a listed residential gas grill has only one virtue it is cheaper.

Cooking is the source of the heat of ignition in a significant portion
of home fires. That much is true. But when a listed cooking appliance
has a cooking fire develop on it there is no large supply of cooking
gas, with no accessible shut off, at the appliance to make the situation
into a gas fed structure fire or to be heated to the point were a
Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion (BLEVE) can be of such a
magnitude to destroy the structure.

I didn't point out the occurrence of structure fires from portable gas
grills in order to make them out to be some extremely frequent kind of
hazard. What they are is a cooking fire with a large supply of cooking
gas immediately adjacent to the fire. With a listed cooking appliance
there is a remote shut off for the gas supply. With a portable gas
grill used away from the structure anything short of a BLEVE will not
effect your home.
--
Tom Horne
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"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
news:1U%3i.17331
Since you are stuck on the idea that portable propane grills that are
intended to be used outdoors away from structures are the only type of
propane grill in existence the answer is no. I can't explain to you why
you might want a gas fitter to pipe a remote gas supply to a listed
residential cooking appliance that happens to be a grill fired by propane.
Just because you are not familiar with any other type then the portable
variety doesn't mean that no other type exists.

Tom Horne


You seem to be stuck on the idea that the only type of portable grill is for
use indoors. Do you ever go to the store and look at he hundreds or brands
and styles of outdoor grills offered for sale? The ones on wheels that can
be readily moved. That was the type of grill question. You took the thread
to indoor portable grills.

In any case, portable is just that. Portable, moveable, not tied down,
easily moved, not stationary. To think a gas fitter is needed for either
type of device fueled by a portable tank (be it 10 or 20 pounds) is absurd.
Connecting it to a natural gas line brings in a new set of rules not
requested by the original poster.



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