After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

On May 9, 2:33�am, Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. *Question: *What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? *I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! *I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

rent a electric jackhammer........

Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs -
say 60 pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter
them; wrong! I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

I had a problem like that once. I ended up digging a very large hole
and rolling it in then covering it up. I would really like to be there
someday when someone digs up that cube (4' x 4' x 4') and wonders why it was
there.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

How thick is the concrete?

On May 9, 9:15?am, wrote:
How thick is the concrete?

its hared to beak up when its not firmly anchored.

eaier to do when it was still a wall

For really thick concrete, I once used an electric jack hammer and the best
I could do was break off pieces from the edges and corners. That left me
with a ball of concrete and I finally did what someone else suggested -- I
dig a whole next to the concrete, rolled it in, and buried it.

But, in another case where the concrete pieces were thick (about 12 inches),
and not wanting to rent a jack hammer, I used a big crowbar to lift one end,
then placed a rock or whatever under the concrete, then hit it with a sledge
hammer to break it apart. While sitting on the ground, I could never break
it. But when propped up on a rock or whatever, it is much easier to break
pieces off. I also use a garden hose to rinse off what I am working on and
I can easily since where it is cracking from being hit with the sledge
hammer. And, finally, with the big crowbar, if you can find any kind of
crevice to work the crowbar into, you can break some pieces apart that
way -- more science and leverage and less brute strength and muscle power.

"Paul MR" wrote in message
. net...
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of big
concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back yard.
Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these into
pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say 60
pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them; wrong! I
have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

wrote:
How thick is the concrete?

The cross section is roughly triangular shaped, about 18 inches on each
side. The length of the smallest piece is about 2 feet and the largest
piece about 8 feet.
Paul in San Francisco

wrote:
On May 9, 2:33�am, Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. �Question: �What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? �I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! �I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

rent a electric jackhammer........

Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully? I'm willing to try if
your answers are yes. Any helpful tips?
Paul in San Francisco

"Paul MR" wrote in message
. net...
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of big
concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back yard.
Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these into
pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say 60
pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them; wrong! I
have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

The common denominator is power tools: jackhammer, 14" or 16" portable gas
saws, concrete chain saw, etc.

If you are not able to break it with a hammer after lifting a corner up like
other suggested, try drilling holes and insert special steel wedges and tap
away, something like this:
http://aboutstone.org/conversa/arc001/msg00694.html

Drilling holes without a rotary hammer would be a challenge but you have the
time.

On May 9, 11:01�am, Paul MR wrote:
wrote:
On May 9, 2:33?am, Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. ?Question: ?What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? ?I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! ?I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

rent a electric jackhammer........

Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully? *I'm willing to try if
your answers are yes. *Any helpful tips?
Paul in San Francisco

yeah easy to use, just put on top and pull trigger.

harbor freight sells a nice one poretty cheap, they have lots of uses
once you own one

Paul MR writes:

wrote:
On May 9, 2:33�am, Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. �Question: �What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? �I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! �I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco
rent a electric jackhammer........

Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully? I'm willing to try if
your answers are yes. Any helpful tips?
Paul in San Francisco

Yes, I used one a few years ago.
You should be fit enough to lift one.
The tip will get stuck in the concrete if you drive
it in too far making extra work to remove it but
it's not real hard.

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on
my legs after 8 hours but it wasn't all that bad.

"Paul MR" wrote in message
. net...
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of big
concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back yard.
Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these into
pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say 60
pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them; wrong! I
have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

The easier way is to drill holes with a rented rotary hammer and fill them
with an expanding agent like www.crackamite.com I used something similar on
a slab a few yrs ago and it worked great. you can Google for other
varieties, should be available @ a local industrial supply outfit.

YMMV

Andrew

In article , wrote:
Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully? I'm willing to try if
your answers are yes. Any helpful tips?

Sure, it's not rocket science. The main thing to be careful of is to change
the angle slightly every so often as you drill. Drill straight in, and the bit
will get stuck. You want to keep moving the bit around a little as you drill
so that you make a hole that's maybe 1/8" larger than the bit, on all sides,
all the way down.

And wear ear and eye protection.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

For more information see the following:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:6....gov.uk/pubns/
indg175.pdf+health+safety+executive+time+limit
+drill&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

"Paul MR" wrote

Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully? I'm willing to try if
your answers are yes. Any helpful tips?
Paul in San Francisco

I agree that an electric jackhammer is the way to go. You're going to be
there two forevers doing it with a hammer and chisel. About the biggest
hint I can give you on the hammer is get the pointy bit, and always aim
towards the center of the blob. Start slow until you get a starter hole,
then you can apply more pressure or higher impact rate. Any way you cut it,
you have a job ahead of you. I had to jack out a block wall footer, and it
was a nightmare with the rebar and no cutting torch.

Steve

"** Frank **" wrote


If you are not able to break it with a hammer after lifting a corner up
like other suggested, try drilling holes and insert special steel wedges
and tap away, something like this:
http://aboutstone.org/conversa/arc001/msg00694.html

Drilling holes without a rotary hammer would be a challenge but you have
the time.

The guy doubted his own abilities with a jackhammer. Don't suggest
something he could hurt himself with.

Steve

"AndrewV" wrote


The easier way is to drill holes with a rented rotary hammer and fill them
with an expanding agent like www.crackamite.com I used something similar
on a slab a few yrs ago and it worked great. you can Google for other
varieties, should be available @ a local industrial supply outfit.

YMMV

Andrew

Very interesting stuff. Drilling the two inch holes would be a chore,
though.

Steve

Paul MR wrote:
wrote:
On May 9, 2:33?am, Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. ?Question: ?What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? ?I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! ?I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

rent a electric jackhammer........

Do you think that someone who has never touched an electric jackhammer
before can operate one safely and successfully?

Probably, but I'd suggest a demolition hammer instead. They're lighter
and easier to operate, and cheaper to rent.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

On Wed, 09 May 2007 17:03:12 GMT, Aardvark
wrote:

On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

That free heath care lobby must be behind this.

How do you guys get any work done?

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

wrote:

yeah easy to use, just put on top and pull trigger.

harbor freight sells a nice one poretty cheap, they have lots of uses
once you own one

Like this?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93853

Aardvark writes:

On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

I don't consider a little bruising a big problem.

No way I'd take 8 days to do something I can do in 1 day.

I guess we don't have that wuss patrol looking after us around here.



"Aardvark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

For more information see the following:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:6....gov.uk/pubns/
indg175.pdf+health+safety+executive+time+limit
+drill&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

I have the Harbor Freight jack hammer, and it's done fine and lasting a lot
longer than I woulda thought.
It's not as powerful as some of the big names, but on the other hand, it's
lighter weight and therefore easier
on a casual user.


wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 9, 11:01?am, Paul MR wrote:
wrote:

yeah easy to use, just put on top and pull trigger.

harbor freight sells a nice one poretty cheap, they have lots of uses
once you own one

I've broken up 18" round piers with an electric hammer, the cheap Harbor
Freight one, and
did it with stitching (hammering a spot for 6 or 8 seconds and then
repeating a few inches over). When
you get a straight line of the divots all the way across, at some point the
concrete breaks along the line.
You can actually get a pretty straight cut with this method.




"BETAC-T" wrote in message
. ..
"Paul MR" wrote in message
. net...
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of big
concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back yard.
Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these into
pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say 60
pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them; wrong!
I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

On Wed, 09 May 2007 14:53:09 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Aardvark writes:

On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

I don't consider a little bruising a big problem.

No way I'd take 8 days to do something I can do in 1 day.

One might need three days to clear it with the health executive.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..


How in heck did we ever get any work done "back in the good old days" before
we knew this stuff was bad for us. I can't say how many hours I have with a
90#er on a IR BIG compressor.

I think it's psychological. Back in those days, we didn't know it was bad
for us, and look how we turned out. Today's kids hear EVERYTHING is bad for
them, so they either do nothing, or file for worker's comp the second day.
Of course, on the second day, they've already gone on the Internet and read
all about carpal tunnel and white finger and know how to go in and give a
good presentation of symptoms to the doctor.

Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?

Steve

On Wed, 09 May 2007 18:57:56 GMT, "bill allemann"
wrote:

I guess we don't have that wuss patrol looking after us around here.

If that was the case, vibrating adult toys would be banned.

I'm curious what the Health Executive in the UK warms about that.

The OP mentions a cause for white finger, from vibration. :-))





"Aardvark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 May 2007 11:36:04 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

I broke up a big patio and had black and blue marks on my legs after 8
hours but it wasn't all that bad.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK power tools that vibrate in
any way are labelled (by the Health and Safety Executive) with the
recommended length of time they can be used in one go.

Vibrating tools of this type can cause vibration white finger and it is
sensible to limit how much time in a twenty-four hour period you use
them.

I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..

For more information see the following:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:6....gov.uk/pubns/
indg175.pdf+health+safety+executive+time+limit
+drill&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

On Wed, 09 May 2007 12:24:42 -0700, Oren wrote:
The OP mentions a cause for white finger, from vibration. :-))

Correction, not the OP (head bowed).

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..


How in heck did we ever get any work done "back in the good old days"
before we knew this stuff was bad for us. I can't say how many hours I
have with a 90#er on a IR BIG compressor.

I think it's psychological. Back in those days, we didn't know it was bad
for us, and look how we turned out. Today's kids hear EVERYTHING is bad
for them, so they either do nothing, or file for worker's comp the second
day. Of course, on the second day, they've already gone on the Internet
and read all about carpal tunnel and white finger and know how to go in
and give a good presentation of symptoms to the doctor.

Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?

Steve

somewhere my dad still has those lawn darts (jarts?) i wonder if they could
even be sold on ebay now, or are they too much of a weapon?

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

"charlie" writes:

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..


How in heck did we ever get any work done "back in the good old days"
before we knew this stuff was bad for us. I can't say how many hours I
have with a 90#er on a IR BIG compressor.

I think it's psychological. Back in those days, we didn't know it was bad
for us, and look how we turned out. Today's kids hear EVERYTHING is bad
for them, so they either do nothing, or file for worker's comp the second
day. Of course, on the second day, they've already gone on the Internet
and read all about carpal tunnel and white finger and know how to go in
and give a good presentation of symptoms to the doctor.

Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?

Steve

somewhere my dad still has those lawn darts (jarts?) i wonder if they could
even be sold on ebay now, or are they too much of a weapon?

Quick search shows lawn dart tee shirts and plastic darts.
What a load of c**p.

"charlie" wrote

somewhere my dad still has those lawn darts (jarts?) i wonder if they
could even be sold on ebay now, or are they too much of a weapon?

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

I bet a hundred dollars to a donut hole it would go something like this:

you sell the darts on ebay
some kid pokes a hole in his little brother's skull
(why is it always the YOUNGER brother?)
they sue you for all you have and win.

Steve PS: If you have brothers, you know the answer to the
question..................

On Wed, 09 May 2007 16:12:09 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

"charlie" writes:

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I sure as hell wouldn't use one for more than an hour at a time, even if
I didn't often use one..


How in heck did we ever get any work done "back in the good old days"
before we knew this stuff was bad for us. I can't say how many hours I
have with a 90#er on a IR BIG compressor.

I think it's psychological. Back in those days, we didn't know it was bad
for us, and look how we turned out. Today's kids hear EVERYTHING is bad
for them, so they either do nothing, or file for worker's comp the second
day. Of course, on the second day, they've already gone on the Internet
and read all about carpal tunnel and white finger and know how to go in
and give a good presentation of symptoms to the doctor.

Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?

Steve

somewhere my dad still has those lawn darts (jarts?) i wonder if they could
even be sold on ebay now, or are they too much of a weapon?

Quick search shows lawn dart tee shirts and plastic darts.
What a load of c**p.

No more dodge-ball?

At 14 - knives and guns were presents. Drive a car; alone during the
day at 14 and at night a 16 year old with a license could allow me to
drive at night as long as they were in the car.

JARTS were not weapons when they came to market.
--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

Paul MR wrote:
After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

Many thanks for all the on-topic help. I have a much clearer idea of
what I need to do and what my best options are. Actually, I enjoyed the
digressions (Jarts, etc.) too.
Paul in San Francisco

Steve B wrote:


Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?


My pharmicist ragged on me for insisting on "easy open" pill bottles. "Think
of the children," he said.

"I do," I replied. "I want my children to have all the opportunities I had."

Goddamn busy-bodies.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:


Good Gawd! Lawn darts, spud guns, how did we live through it?


My pharmicist ragged on me for insisting on "easy open" pill bottles.
"Think of the children," he said.

"I do," I replied. "I want my children to have all the opportunities I
had."

Goddamn busy-bodies.


And if you're sixty and can't get a prescription bottle open, just hand it
to an eight year old.

POP!

But I do see how it's better to protect the little ones.

Steve

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:

yeah easy to use, just put on top and pull trigger.

harbor freight sells a nice one poretty cheap, they have lots of uses
once you own one

Like this?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93853


No, more like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46935

I have one and find ways to use it all the time - busting concrete, fence
posts, digging out tree stubs. Its a bit too heavy, but if you really like a
good one look at Hilti, very light and strong but mucho $$.

On Wed, 09 May 2007 06:33:42 GMT, Paul MR wrote:

After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco

Go down to the local Gym. Find about 20 very muscular gay men that
lift weights. Invite them to your place and let them bang each other
on the concrete. You'll end up with a pile of sand. It should be
easy to find these guys in SanFrancisco.

On Wed, 09 May 2007 06:33:42 GMT, Paul MR wrote:

After living with them for months, I've finally decided to get rid of
big concrete chunks (remains of an old retaining wall) from my back
yard. Question: What non-power tools do I need to buy to break these
into pieces small enough for me to lift and carry down the stairs - say
60 pounds or less? I thought big sledge hammer would shatter them;
wrong! I have more time on my hands than money at the moment.
Paul in San Francisco


Be almost less work to just use a powered furniture dolly,
and move the chunks as is, wouldn't it?

Be almost less work to just use a powered furniture dolly,
and move the chunks as is, wouldn't it?

What is a powered furniture dolly? Does it carry a heavy load like a
refrigerator up the staircase?

Be almost less work to just use a powered furniture dolly,
and move the chunks as is, wouldn't it?

What is a powered furniture dolly? Does it carry a heavy load like a
refrigerator up the staircase?

I suppose if you can afford a powered dolly, you can afford elevators.