On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:57:39 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:

A couple major issues:
The wall is about an inch off plumb from the bottom of the door from to
the top (81.5 inches) The wall leans inward the door is an inswing.
The wall was constructed using 2x3's, the door is for 2x4 wall.


If the studs are 2x3 you would make allowance for the plasterboard on top,
giving you a 100mm (4inch) thick wall. The door casing on a plumb 4 inch
wall should fit perfectly so the architreve will fit flush to door casing
and finished wall.

As I see it the only thing to do is to shore up the wall using 1x1 shims
at the top so the door casing is plumb, and to do some creative moulding
on the inside to make up for the door being set in and inch from the
wall at the top. Or are there some other alternatives, trust me I'm all
ears. I've replaced several doors in the past but never one on 2x3
construction and never one that was this far out of plumb.


I have fitted doorsets in non-plumb walls in the past (and probably will
in the future :-)) and the usual way to do it has been to fix the doorset
perfectly plumb in the centre of the opening (in this case, so that there
is half-an-inch over at the top on the outside and half-an-inch over at
the bottom on the inside) then use a router or circular saw to rebate (or
as you colonials say, rabbet) the back of the architreve to fit flush on
both the wall and door casing. Any gaps remaining can be filled by
decorator's caulk (as we say in joinery 'The man in white'll put it right').

Other than that, you could shim the studs on the wall so that any
plasterboard will be plumb, fix the doorset correctly and fill out
whatever deficit remains between the width of the casing and thickness of
the wall with a lath of suitable timber of the correct thickness. Then
plant your architreve.

HTH mate.

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

Meat Plow tossed the following at the wall, and it stuck:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:00:56 +0000, Aardvark wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:57:39 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:

A couple major issues:
The wall is about an inch off plumb from the bottom of the door from to
the top (81.5 inches) The wall leans inward the door is an inswing.
The wall was constructed using 2x3's, the door is for 2x4 wall.


If the studs are 2x3 you woulif there isn't too much weight on the
frame,d make allowance for the plasterboard on
top, giving you a 100mm (4inch) thick wall. The door casing on a plumb 4
inch wall should fit perfectly so the architreve will fit flush to door
casing and finished wall.

As I see it the only thing to do is to shore up the wall using 1x1 shims
at the top so the door casing is plumb, and to do some creative moulding
on the inside to make up for the door being set in and inch from the
wall at the top. Or are there some other alternatives, trust me I'm all
ears. I've replaced several doors in the past but never one on 2x3
construction and never one that was this far out of plumb.


I have fitted doorsets in non-plumb walls in the past (and probably will
in the future :-)) and the usif there isn't too much weight on the
frame,ual way to do it has been to fix the doorset
perfectly plumb in the centre of the opening (in this case, so that there
is half-an-inch over at the top on the outside and half-an-inch over at
the bottom on the inside) then use a router or circular saw to rebate (or
as you colonials say, rabbet) the back of the architreve to fit flush on
both the wall and door casing. Any gaps remaining can be filled by
decorator's caulk (as we say in joinery 'The man in white'll put it
right').

Other than that, you could shim the studs on the wall so that any
plasterboard will be plumb, fix the doorset correctly and fill out
whatever deficit remains between the width of the casing and thickness of
the wall with a lath of suitable timber of the correct thickness. Then
plant your architreve.

HTH mate.

Thanks, sounds very reasonable. Basically shim up on the front and sides
to plumb and level then do some creative carpentry work for trim and
moulding. Trimming the back of the casing to fit flush with the inside
isn't an option since I'd be cutting off part of where the lockset
anchors.

Told you I'd take care of you. You also have the option as part of the
creative carpentry to mortise in a piece of a two by four that is level
where the lockset will go. If the door is prehung, I'd hang it first, then
cut out about eight inches around the lockset, and use good beefy screws to
drive the 2x4 into whatever meat (excust the pun) you can find behind it,
building up as necessary before putting in the frame. That may involve
some plaster work, depending upon how thorough you want to be, and what
your comfort level is with the work.

It'll be a lot of work, but it should be doable.
--
Q: What's tiny and yellow and very, very, dangerous?
A: A canary with the super-user password.
Lits Slut#9
Froz...

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:39:47 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:


Thanks, sounds very reasonable. Basically shim up on the front and sides
to plumb and level then do some creative carpentry work for trim and
moulding. Trimming the back of the casing to fit flush with the inside
isn't an option since I'd be cutting off part of where the lockset anchors.


Is the lock a Yale lock at eye level or a mortice lock at waist level or
both? This knowledge can help.

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:14:23 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:32:58 +0000, Aardvark wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:39:47 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:


Thanks, sounds very reasonable. Basically shim up on the front and sides
to plumb and level then do some creative carpentry work for trim and
moulding. Trimming the back of the casing to fit flush with the inside
isn't an option since I'd be cutting off part of where the lockset anchors.


Is the lock a Yale lock at eye level or a mortice lock at waist level or
both? This knowledge can help.

The latch and deadbolt are waist level. As it stands now, the inside of
the door case is level with the inside wall at the bottom as I've shimmed
the backside of the entire outside molding with a 1x1 strip to make up for
the 2x3 construction. Now plumb, the top of the backside of the door
casing is about 1.5 inches in the wall at the top. The backside of the
outer molding is 1.5 inches away from the top of the outside wall. The
bottom is flush. What I will do now is add another 1.5 inches to the
backside of the top portion of the outer molding and down maybe a few
inches on the sides of the backside of the front molding. This will give
the door (prehung) casing or frame greater stability by having contact
with the top of the front wall rather than just relying on anchoring it
from the sides. I'll also have to seal the sides of the molding which will
be harder to do since the house has a layer of aluminum siding atop the
original wood shingle style siding. This was basically my plan from the
beginning as there is really no other alternatives. I'll just have to be
creative with the inside wall and building the part of the door frame that
is inside of the wall flush with the surface of the inside wall. And
eventually when the house is resided next year, the sider will have to be
creative with the molding around the door.


Sounds like you've sort of done what I would've done. Any chance of a few
pictures from different viewpoints? The outside, the inside, the latch and
deadbolt?

How many fixings have you used to install the doorset? Generally only 8
are required on an external door casing, and I can't see any real need
(unless you're a REAL belt and braces type of guy :-)) for a fixing in the
head of the casing, especially if there's even the slightest of gaps
between the casing head and the top of the opening.

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:15:10 -0400, Meat Plow wrote:



Yes I can take some. I'll post back when and where they'll be.


A picture tells a thousand words. That'll help with my overall
visualisation.

How many fixings have you used to install the doorset? Generally only 8
are required on an external door casing, and I can't see any real need
(unless you're a REAL belt and braces type of guy :-)) for a fixing in the
head of the casing, especially if there's even the slightest of gaps
between the casing head and the top of the opening.

Well there are three on each side.

I'd use more on an external hardwood casing but you'll get by with three
each side.

Those had to be built out approx 5
inches since the studs were recessed back that far.

Keerist! Could you have slipped in a 2x3 or at least blocks where you were
going to fix to or would that have interfered too much with the doorset?

And the top and the
bottom of the casing will also be anchored. There also is a small twist
from left to right so it's going to be touchy shimming to get the casing
square.

Even if it's the house that Jack built it's imperative your casing is flat
to the door so keep shimming :-)

Fortunately this is a Pella door

Just visited their site. It seems they have a window and door replacement
sale on right now........... :-)

and the casing has small
temporary spacers installed around the inside casing to help keep
everything square from the door's perspective.

Trick of the trade for fixing doorsets-
Remove door from casing. Fix the hinge side of the casing plumb, square to
the line of the wall and straight. Hang the door on the casing. Using the
swinging door as a guide, fix the latch side of the casing in such a way
that the door fits into the rebate (rabbet) on that side, so that it
touches all of the rebate. Shim as necessary then fix the latch side of
the casing. The door will then close tight every time.

I do appreciate your
help.

No probs. Glad to be of help.

I pretty much knew what had to be done from the beginning but it's
always nice to have confirmation from a 3rd party. Also it helps explain
to my GF why this is taking so long.

So now you have written proof eh? It's on the internet so of course it's
true :-)

And by the way, the original door
was horribly hard to open and close for good reason. My only fault and
not that it mattered since there wasn't a fix was that I forgot to check
to see if the wall was plumb.

Understandable. I've had countless "D'oh!" moments in the past where, like
a fool, I made the incorrect assumption that the guy who built the wall
was as conscientious as me and liked to do things right first time and
built plumb walls :-).

And the only fix there would have been to
gut the wall and rebuild it which isn't a viable option.

Far too much time away from the pub. I feel ya :-)

Out of curiosity: does the new doorset have a hardwood threshold and metal
weather strip on the threshold built in? If so you might have got away
with leaning the whole thing inwards slightly at the top without the door
binding to the floor when it's opened, as the foot of the door when closed
would be at least an inch or so above floor level..

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.