Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

On Apr 9, 1:40 pm, " wrote:
Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

I have been doing this for years with the old gate valves, I would
assume if anything that the ball valves you have would be more
durable.

nate

On 9 Apr 2007 10:40:57 -0700, "
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

That is its purpose. You'd better start doing it always NOW and save
doing it sometimes for when you have the steel hoses. (You should do
it always then too, but my point is you have your plans backwards)

Thanks in advance, John

I've been doing this for about 3 years, without incurring any
problems. And yes I use ball valves.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Of course it will wear out over time. Everything mechanical eventually
does. OTOH, if you don't use the shutoff, it may stick in the on position
and not be able to turn off when needed. DAMHIKT

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:25:21 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

DAMHIKT

??

mm wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:25:21 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

DAMHIKT

??

"Don't ask me how I know that."



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:54:28 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

mm wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:25:21 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

DAMHIKT

??

"Don't ask me how I know that."

A new one for me. Thank you.

On 9 Apr 2007 10:40:57 -0700, " wrote:

Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff valves have
lasted about 20 years.
Besides the obvious hose-burst that may occur by leaving the valves on, there's
an additional reason for shutting them off when not in use:
The water pressure, over time, deforms the mixing valve in the machine,
eventually causing the solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in either no
water delivery or no temperature selection.

"JKevorkian" wrote in message
...
On 9 Apr 2007 10:40:57 -0700, "
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff valves
have
lasted about 20 years.
Besides the obvious hose-burst that may occur by leaving the valves on,
there's
an additional reason for shutting them off when not in use:
The water pressure, over time, deforms the mixing valve in the machine,
eventually causing the solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in
either no
water delivery or no temperature selection.

When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.
MLD

On Apr 10, 7:56 am, "MLD" wrote:

When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.
MLD

I thought I missed something...but I agree with your thoughts.

OTOH I've never had a hose disaster in 25+ years...just lucky I guess,
but then again, I replace the supply hoses fairly regularly (5 years
or so) and have never shut the supply off other than for maintenance.

On 2007-04-10, MLD wrote:
Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff
valves have lasted about 20 years. Besides the obvious hose-burst
that may occur by leaving the valves on, there's an additional reason
for shutting them off when not in use: The water pressure, over time,
deforms the mixing valve in the machine, eventually causing the
solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in either no water
delivery or no temperature selection.

When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.

I'm confused by the physics here. Water isn't compressible, so what is
the source of this trapped pressure?

"Tim Smith" wrote in message

I'm confused by the physics here. Water isn't compressible, so what is
the source of this trapped pressure?

The main water line. There is pressure either from the well or city line,
in the piping at all times. If you close valves located midway in the
pipes, the pressure remains constant. In the case of a washing machine
hose, if the hose were to break with the valve closed, the only leak is what
water happened to be in the line.

Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-04-10, MLD wrote:
Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff
valves have lasted about 20 years. Besides the obvious hose-burst
that may occur by leaving the valves on, there's an additional reason
for shutting them off when not in use: The water pressure, over time,
deforms the mixing valve in the machine, eventually causing the
solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in either no water
delivery or no temperature selection.
When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.

I'm confused by the physics here. Water isn't compressible, so what is
the source of this trapped pressure?
Think of one of those long balloons, cut the end off and pinch it
(washing machine valve), now blow into the balloon from the other
end until you have a pressure equivalent to your water pressure.
Pinch off that end (shut off valve). What happens to the air in the
balloon? Its still at pressure isn't it? If you want to relieve the
pressure, then you have to open the unpressurized end. The only way
to do that is to either unscrew the fitting at the machine and deal
with the drip, or cycle the machine through a fill cycle - the only
water it will get is what's in the hose.
--
Grandpa

On Apr 10, 11:50 am, Tim Smith
wrote:
On 2007-04-10, MLD wrote:

Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff
valves have lasted about 20 years. Besides the obvious hose-burst
that may occur by leaving the valves on, there's an additional reason
for shutting them off when not in use: The water pressure, over time,
deforms the mixing valve in the machine, eventually causing the
solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in either no water
delivery or no temperature selection.

When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.

I'm confused by the physics here. Water isn't compressible, so what is
the source of this trapped pressure?

The stretched rubber of the hose, mainly. Also, other minor junk such
as compressed air in the line with the water, slack in the threads of
the fittings, even the minute but nonzero compressibility of the water
itself.

On Apr 9, 1:40 pm, " wrote:
Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

I have a couple of hose threaded washing machine hose antiflooding
valve gadgets which i got from that mail order surplus scientific
gadget place 25 years ago; about the size and shape of the little end
of the hose shut off valves for garden hoses; anyway, each contains a
little ball valve type apparatus cocked on a ledge, held metastably by
a little spring. During normal operation the spring holds it all
stable, but with a sudden rush, as with a busted hose, the water
pressure is enough to dislodge the ball off the ledge, and the spring
snaps it against the seat and the water shuts off. Not foolproof by
any means, but they functioned as described during my tests, and they
cost like $1.95 a pair. Don't know why then don't make them any more.

On the other hand, they didn't do much the one day the solenoid on the
inlet valve on the machine stuck open and i left the house for a
couple of hours....

On Apr 9, 1:40 pm, " wrote:
Hi all,

I have a one-lever shut off valve for my washing machine. I plan to
get some SS braided hoses, right now I have rubber ones.

Anyway, I want to start using the shut off valve each and every time I
am not using the washer. Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone had
any problems while doing this? Like, the valve leaks or will wear out
over time?

Thanks in advance, John

Closing the supply valves to the washing machine, when the machine is
not in use, is cheap insurance against a flood caused by a failed
hose. However the steel wrapped hoses can still fail since the line
pressure is held 100% by the rubber.When I replaced my rubber hoses
with steel wrapped ones I was told that they offered no increased
burst protection.
Joe G

On 10 Apr 2007 10:28:53 -0700, "GROVER"
wrote:



Closing the supply valves to the washing machine, when the machine is
not in use, is cheap insurance against a flood caused by a failed
hose. However the steel wrapped hoses can still fail since the line
pressure is held 100% by the rubber.When I replaced my rubber hoses
with steel wrapped ones I was told that they offered no increased
burst protection.
Joe G

None? Is the idea that they'll do better in a knife fight?

On Apr 10, 9:16 am, Grandpa wrote:
Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-04-10, MLD wrote:
Going back (way back) to my mother's time, the one-lever shutoff
valves have lasted about 20 years. Besides the obvious hose-burst
that may occur by leaving the valves on, there's an additional reason
for shutting them off when not in use: The water pressure, over time,
deforms the mixing valve in the machine, eventually causing the
solenoids to stick open or closed, resulting in either no water
delivery or no temperature selection.
When you shut the valve off what do you think happens to the water pressure
that's trapped between the S/O valve and the machine solenoids (aka,
hydraulic lock)? Unless there is a way for this pressure to bleed down it
will remain high and will remain the same (or near) as the supply pressure.
Disaster prevention is the best reason for keeping the shutoff valve closed
except when the machine is in use.

I'm confused by the physics here. Water isn't compressible, so what is
the source of this trapped pressure?

Think of one of those long balloons, cut the end off and pinch it
(washing machine valve), now blow into the balloon from the other
end until you have a pressure equivalent to your water pressure.
Pinch off that end (shut off valve). What happens to the air in the
balloon? Its still at pressure isn't it? If you want to relieve the
pressure, then you have to open the unpressurized end. The only way
to do that is to either unscrew the fitting at the machine and deal
with the drip, or cycle the machine through a fill cycle - the only
water it will get is what's in the hose.
--
Grandpa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K

On Apr 10, 10:00 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K-

Which is exactly what the hose does. The volume of expansion involved,
however, is obviously much less; but that makes no difference to the
pressure. It's like a tiny capacitor vs. a big capacitor, for the
electronically inclined; both will charge up to the same voltage.

z wrote:
On Apr 10, 10:00 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K-

Which is exactly what the hose does. The volume of expansion involved,
however, is obviously much less; but that makes no difference to the
pressure. It's like a tiny capacitor vs. a big capacitor, for the
electronically inclined; both will charge up to the same voltage.

There's also a reason why oil is used instead of water in
hydraulics. Oil isn't as compressible as water. Turn off the main
water valve to the house, creating a hydraulic lock for the whole
house. Now go to the highest water tap in the house and turn it on,
water will run for a few seconds until the pressure is relieved.
Where's it coming from? The contraction of the metal pipes? Not
likely. Thermal expansion from the hot water tank? Possibly, but I
have several hundred feet of irrigation pipe that isn't connected to
a hot water source that exhibits the same phenomenon. In actuality,
water is compressible. Look it up!
--
Grandpa

"Grandpa" wrote in message

There's also a reason why oil is used instead of water in
hydraulics. Oil isn't as compressible as water.

While it can be compressed, it will also boil at the operating temperature
of many hydraulic systems, as well as corrode the internal metal parts. Oil
is much better that way.


http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae15.cfm
Question

Can you compress a liquid (water)?

Asked by: Guy Matthews

Answer

The answer is yes, You can compress water, or almost any material. However,
it requires a great deal of pressure to accomplish a little compression. For
that reason, liquids and solids are sometimes referred to as being
incompressible.

To understand what happens, remember that all matter is composed of a
collection of atoms. Even though matter seems to be very solid, in
actuality, the atoms are relative far apart, and matter is mostly empty
space. However, due to the forces between the molecules, they strongly
resist being pressed closer together, but they can be. You probably have
experienced compressing something as hard as steel. Have you ever bounced a
steel ball bearing off a sidewalk? When you do that, the 'bounce' is due to
compressing the steel ball, just a tiny little spot that comes into contact
with the sidewalk. It compresses and then springs back, causing the bounce.

The water at the bottom of the ocean is compressed by the weight of the
water above it all the way to the surface, and is more dense than the water
at the surface.

A consequence of compressing a fluid is that the viscosity, that is the
resistance of the fluid to flow, also increases as the density increases.
This is because the atoms are forced closer together, and thus cannot slip
by each other as easily as they can when the fluid is at atmospheric
pressure.

Answered by: David L. Alexander

On Apr 11, 8:58 am, Grandpa wrote:
z wrote:
On Apr 10, 10:00 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K-

Which is exactly what the hose does. The volume of expansion involved,
however, is obviously much less; but that makes no difference to the
pressure. It's like a tiny capacitor vs. a big capacitor, for the
electronically inclined; both will charge up to the same voltage.

There's also a reason why oil is used instead of water in
hydraulics. Oil isn't as compressible as water. Turn off the main
water valve to the house, creating a hydraulic lock for the whole
house. Now go to the highest water tap in the house and turn it on,
water will run for a few seconds until the pressure is relieved.
Where's it coming from? The contraction of the metal pipes? Not
likely. Thermal expansion from the hot water tank? Possibly, but I
have several hundred feet of irrigation pipe that isn't connected to
a hot water source that exhibits the same phenomenon. In actuality,
water is compressible. Look it up!
--
Grandpa

I would suspect a bit of air entrained in the water as the supplier of
pressure.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 11, 8:58 am, Grandpa wrote:
z wrote:
On Apr 10, 10:00 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K-

Which is exactly what the hose does. The volume of expansion involved,
however, is obviously much less; but that makes no difference to the
pressure. It's like a tiny capacitor vs. a big capacitor, for the
electronically inclined; both will charge up to the same voltage.

There's also a reason why oil is used instead of water in
hydraulics. Oil isn't as compressible as water. Turn off the main
water valve to the house, creating a hydraulic lock for the whole
house. Now go to the highest water tap in the house and turn it on,
water will run for a few seconds until the pressure is relieved.
Where's it coming from? The contraction of the metal pipes? Not
likely. Thermal expansion from the hot water tank? Possibly, but I
have several hundred feet of irrigation pipe that isn't connected to
a hot water source that exhibits the same phenomenon. In actuality,
water is compressible. Look it up!
--
Grandpa

I would suspect a bit of air entrained in the water as the supplier of
pressure.

Harry K

Right on Harry!!! Entrained air in water (or any fluid, for that matter) is
what allows it to be compressed. The degree of compressibility of a liquid
is defined by its "Bulk Modules". While not a big deal in most cases it is
a major consideration in hydraulic control systems and has to be accounted
for in order to keep a system from going unstable. If you have a hydraulic
lock (no expansion tank or relief valve) and allow the fluid's temperature
to increase the subsequent system pressure can increase to more than 5000
psi in a simple home hot water system.
MLD

On Apr 12, 7:52 am, "MLD" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Apr 11, 8:58 am, Grandpa wrote:
z wrote:
On Apr 10, 10:00 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Poor example. The balloon expands when blown up and contracts when
able thus maintaining the pressure.

Harry K-

Which is exactly what the hose does. The volume of expansion involved,
however, is obviously much less; but that makes no difference to the
pressure. It's like a tiny capacitor vs. a big capacitor, for the
electronically inclined; both will charge up to the same voltage.

There's also a reason why oil is used instead of water in
hydraulics. Oil isn't as compressible as water. Turn off the main
water valve to the house, creating a hydraulic lock for the whole
house. Now go to the highest water tap in the house and turn it on,
water will run for a few seconds until the pressure is relieved.
Where's it coming from? The contraction of the metal pipes? Not
likely. Thermal expansion from the hot water tank? Possibly, but I
have several hundred feet of irrigation pipe that isn't connected to
a hot water source that exhibits the same phenomenon. In actuality,
water is compressible. Look it up!
--
Grandpa

I would suspect a bit of air entrained in the water as the supplier of
pressure.

Harry K

Right on Harry!!! Entrained air in water (or any fluid, for that matter) is
what allows it to be compressed. The degree of compressibility of a liquid
is defined by its "Bulk Modules". While not a big deal in most cases it is
a major consideration in hydraulic control systems and has to be accounted
for in order to keep a system from going unstable. If you have a hydraulic
lock (no expansion tank or relief valve) and allow the fluid's temperature
to increase the subsequent system pressure can increase to more than 5000
psi in a simple home hot water system.
MLD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"hydraulic lock" brought up an ancient memory. Way back in the 40s,
the old man bought an old 1 1/2 ton truck for the farm. It had what
must have been a hydraulic parking brake, just a loop of tubing up to
the steering wheel with a 'flip' lever for on/off. If you set it when
the brakes were warm, you would then have to wait and wait before you
could move the valve handle to release the brakes. I never did
understand the cause of that.

Harry K