I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

wrote in message
...
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

All you need is one of those expensive pumps and big balls. Otherwise, all
you can get in is as much as will go in until equal pressure is reached.
(definition: not that much)

Steve

Do I just connect from tank to tank, ...

Sure, just turn the 500 gallon tank upside down first, so you get liquid
out, like you did refilling disposables from an upside-down 20 lb'er.

Expect cryogenic, flammable liquid to spew in your face, blinding you, and
instantly frostbiting your skin, just before the massive explosion and fire
that ends your life in a blood-curdling cry of gurgled horror, with your
family and neighbors watching your staggering death-walk across the lawn as
your burned lungs starve you of oxygen and you collapse.

Other than that, yep, it's just not "all that much different other than the
amounts".

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:36:36 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Do I just connect from tank to tank, ...

Sure, just turn the 500 gallon tank upside down first, so you get liquid
out, like you did refilling disposables from an upside-down 20 lb'er.

Expect cryogenic, flammable liquid to spew in your face, blinding you, and
instantly frostbiting your skin, just before the massive explosion and fire
that ends your life in a blood-curdling cry of gurgled horror, with your
family and neighbors watching your staggering death-walk across the lawn as
your burned lungs starve you of oxygen and you collapse.

Other than that, yep, it's just not "all that much different other than the
amounts".

Ok, I don't know about the rest of you, but I just lost total bladder
control. :)

Cheers,
Paul

wrote:
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.
Hi,
Just don't even try. Bottles are filled as liquid with special
machine(pump) by the weight. Also it is safety issue.
Also Propane has summer/winter grade like gasoline.

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.



Put the 20 pound tank in a tub of ice water. The gas will go in and liquefy.
Weigh it or shake it to be sure it's not too full. Be sure you insurance is
paid up, will is in order and so on

Al

Big Al writes:

The gas will go in and liquefy.

A propane still, eh?

Stills are expensive to run, especially on a small scale. The cost and
time to process 25 gallons this way will exceed any value of the product.

Better to just vent the stuff if he insists on spiting the dealer.

If you're really anal and just want to get even no matter what the cost, be
sure to open the valve and let whatever's in there run out. You won't get
anything, but they won't either.

Steve

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:41:28 -0500, wrote:

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank.

Steve B said what I would say.

Also, I have a vague feeling they buy back what you haven't used, but
if so, I still don't know the details. Look at your contract.

?????

--
Steve Barker




"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:7wkRh.34972$DE1.17533@pd7urf2no...
Also Propane has summer/winter grade like gasoline.

On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, wrote:
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

Call the new company, and have them pump the tank out, and when they
place the new one, have them credit you back the same amount. If you
can work it right, they could pump the gas out, remove the old tank,
place the new one, and fill the tank in one trip.

Have you contacted the other company to see if they would credit you
the amount in the tank?

As for moving the gas with 20# tanks...while it sounds
good...practically it isn't worth the effort.

Good luck.

wrote in message
...
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.


Can we have your address, please? I want to videotape this (from a distance)
and post it on youtube.

The dealer should give you a credit for the unused propane. This
happened to me when I switched gas companies.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

"DAC" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, wrote:
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

Call the new company, and have them pump the tank out, and when they
place the new one, have them credit you back the same amount. If you
can work it right, they could pump the gas out, remove the old tank,
place the new one, and fill the tank in one trip.

Have you contacted the other company to see if they would credit you
the amount in the tank?

As for moving the gas with 20# tanks...while it sounds
good...practically it isn't worth the effort.

Good luck.



I'm going to say ditto to this post.

The propane needs to be under huge pressure to stay in liquid form, once
you start to release that pressure from the big tank into the little one,
all you will be getting is the gas, not the liquid form.
so, like another mentioned, you would have to flip your big tank upside
down, or drain it from the bottom. Much better to just get the new
company to pump it out.

as for screwing your old company. If you do open the valve on the old tank
after it has been pumped empty, the old tank will need to be purged before
it can be used again, so. that would be one way of "stickin it to em"

In article ,
wrote:

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

I would seek out a company that will sell you a tank, the rental scam
is expensive.
good luck!

--

Money: What a concept?

Big Al wrote:
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.




Put the 20 pound tank in a tub of ice water. The gas will go in and liquefy.
Weigh it or shake it to be sure it's not too full. Be sure you insurance is
paid up, will is in order and so on

Al



That sounds like it should work.

But, it reminds me of something I once wondered about and I don't
remember ever if I ever got an answer fo.

Take two similarly sized and shaped propane containers, one nearly full
of liquid and the other nearly empty and couple them together with a
tube between their tops.

If they are left undisturbed long enough in a constant temperature
environment of say 70 F, will the liquid levels in the two containers
eventually equalize on their own, and if they will, what's the physics
behind it?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"---MIKE---" wrote in message
...
The dealer should give you a credit for the unused propane. This
happened to me when I switched gas companies.


---MIKE---

They did it for me, too, when I switched electric companies............

Steve

Jeff Wisnia writes:

Big Al wrote:
Take two similarly sized and shaped propane containers, one nearly
full of liquid and the other nearly empty and couple them together
with a tube between their tops.

If they are left undisturbed long enough in a constant temperature
environment of say 70 F, will the liquid levels in the two containers
eventually equalize on their own, and if they will, what's the physics
behind it?

Theoretically all the gas could move into just one tank
due to random motion, but you might have to wait
the lifetime of several universes before it happens.

Basically the random motion tends toward equal distribution
and for the setup you describe I'd think a second or 2 would
be enough so that you couldn't measure the difference.

IANAP

Yeah, I gotta question that one also. Gasoline is a complex chemical with a
lot of different things going into it's makeup. Propane is a simple
compound, C3H8, and only comes in two configurations, propane and cyclo
propane (which you won't find in any propane tanks). AFAIK they only thing
they add to it is the oderant that gives it the garlic stench (propane
itself is odorless and colorless, the smell you smell isn't the propane).
Summer/winter grade? I seriously doubt it.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
?????

--
Steve Barker




"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:7wkRh.34972$DE1.17533@pd7urf2no...
Also Propane has summer/winter grade like gasoline.

Oh yeah...and if you choose to crack the valve and let'er rip...make
sure you stay on the high ground and away from low sources of
igniniton as LP gas is heavier than air...and it will collect in low
places......

Man I wish you luck....

Dan Espen wrote:

Jeff Wisnia writes:


Big Al wrote:
Take two similarly sized and shaped propane containers, one nearly
full of liquid and the other nearly empty and couple them together
with a tube between their tops.

If they are left undisturbed long enough in a constant temperature
environment of say 70 F, will the liquid levels in the two containers
eventually equalize on their own, and if they will, what's the physics
behind it?


Theoretically all the gas could move into just one tank
due to random motion, but you might have to wait
the lifetime of several universes before it happens.

Basically the random motion tends toward equal distribution
and for the setup you describe I'd think a second or 2 would
be enough so that you couldn't measure the difference.

IANAP


I decided the guys on sci.physics would know about this sort of stuff
and posted my question there too. I got a believable and understandable
answer back which I'll snip and add below.

I now see why, given a LONG TIME, and under the influence of the earth's
gravity, the liquid levels in the two tanks WOULD approach equal
heights, but it would take an infinite amount of time for them to become
eggsackly equal. G

*************

Pressure of the propane vapors changes with altitude. There's only
12 inches or so of altitude to play with inside the tanks, but
if all other things are equal, this will come into play and eventually
the tanks will equalize with the propane at the same level even
though the tanks are only connected at the top.

Propane will evaporate from the surface of the more-full tank since
the vapor/liquid interface there is at a higher elevation and, hence,
at a lower pressure than in the less-full tank.

One might estimate the rate of transfer by figuring out the
pressure differential (what is the density of propane vapors
at room temperature and what is the difference in fluid levels?)
This pressure differential equates to a temperature differential
(how does the vapor pressure of propane vary with temperature?)
This temperature differential equates to a rate of heat flow
(what is the R value of a pair of steel tanks of propane in air?)
This rate of heat flow equates to a time parameter (how much
heat does it take to vaporize a one cm layer of propane in a
30 cm diameter tank?)

This should lead to a first order linear differential equation whose
solution is an exponential decay in the difference in fluid levels
over time.

***************

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't
send me any freakin' spam wrote:

Yeah, I gotta question that one also. Gasoline is a complex chemical with a
lot of different things going into it's makeup. Propane is a simple
compound, C3H8, and only comes in two configurations, propane and cyclo
propane (which you won't find in any propane tanks). AFAIK they only thing
they add to it is the oderant that gives it the garlic stench (propane
itself is odorless and colorless, the smell you smell isn't the propane).
Summer/winter grade? I seriously doubt it.

Not all bottle gas is propane. Many areas use Butane or a Butane/Propane mix.
Since Butane doesn't boil (gassify) below 28 degrees, colder areas that use
Butane or a Butane mix would need to adjust the mix during the winter.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:40:35 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:36:36 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Do I just connect from tank to tank, ...

Sure, just turn the 500 gallon tank upside down first, so you get liquid
out, like you did refilling disposables from an upside-down 20 lb'er.

Expect cryogenic, flammable liquid to spew in your face, blinding you, and
instantly frostbiting your skin, just before the massive explosion and fire
that ends your life in a blood-curdling cry of gurgled horror, with your
family and neighbors watching your staggering death-walk across the lawn as
your burned lungs starve you of oxygen and you collapse.

Other than that, yep, it's just not "all that much different other than the
amounts".

Ok, I don't know about the rest of you, but I just lost total bladder
control. :)

Richard Pryor is/was funny, when he talked about catching on fire.

Fire! That **** can make you run FAST. (words to that affect).

--
Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:34:22 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:40:35 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:36:36 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Do I just connect from tank to tank, ...

Sure, just turn the 500 gallon tank upside down first, so you get liquid
out, like you did refilling disposables from an upside-down 20 lb'er.

Expect cryogenic, flammable liquid to spew in your face, blinding you, and
instantly frostbiting your skin, just before the massive explosion and fire
that ends your life in a blood-curdling cry of gurgled horror, with your
family and neighbors watching your staggering death-walk across the lawn as
your burned lungs starve you of oxygen and you collapse.

Other than that, yep, it's just not "all that much different other than the
amounts".

Ok, I don't know about the rest of you, but I just lost total bladder
control. :)

Richard Pryor is/was funny, when he talked about catching on fire.

Fire! That **** can make you run FAST. (words to that affect).


"when you're running down hollywood blvd, with your clothes on fire,
people get out of your way.."

On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, wrote:
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.


OK it's been a while since I took physics, or chemistry for that
matter, but let's see. In the tank there is propane, some of it
gaseous, some liquid. The pressure is high enough to liquefy it at
ambient temperature. As you draw off some gas (for your furnace, or
whatever) the pressure goes down a little, and some of the liquid
'boils' into gas. Until the liquid is all gone, then when you take
out more gas the pressure just goes down.

So if you take gas off the top to fill up a smaller tank, it will fill
the smaller tank until the pressure in it is the same as the pressure
in the larger tank. I think if the two tanks are the same
temperature, it will stop with only gas in the smaller tank. But if
the smaller tank is colder than the bigger tank, gas will condense
into liquid form in there, gradually filling it up. (As it condenses,
more gas will migrate over from the bigger tank.) All speculation
here.

Another possibility might be if you could somehow stick your filler
tube down to the bottom of the large tank, so that the pressure would
force liquid out instead of gas. Like a seltzer bottle. -- H

"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't
send me any freakin' spam wrote:

Yeah, I gotta question that one also. Gasoline is a complex chemical with
a
lot of different things going into it's makeup. Propane is a simple
compound, C3H8, and only comes in two configurations, propane and cyclo
propane (which you won't find in any propane tanks). AFAIK they only thing
they add to it is the oderant that gives it the garlic stench (propane
itself is odorless and colorless, the smell you smell isn't the propane).
Summer/winter grade? I seriously doubt it.

Not all bottle gas is propane. Many areas use Butane or a Butane/Propane
mix.
Since Butane doesn't boil (gassify) below 28 degrees, colder areas that
use
Butane or a Butane mix would need to adjust the mix during the winter.

LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) is a mixture of propane and butane. When it's
colder, it has more propane in it to keep it from liquifying. So, when I go
and fill my tank with gas for my BBQ, am I getting propane or LPG?

Heathcliff wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, wrote:

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.



OK it's been a while since I took physics, or chemistry for that
matter, but let's see. In the tank there is propane, some of it
gaseous, some liquid. The pressure is high enough to liquefy it at
ambient temperature. As you draw off some gas (for your furnace, or
whatever) the pressure goes down a little, and some of the liquid
'boils' into gas. Until the liquid is all gone, then when you take
out more gas the pressure just goes down.

So if you take gas off the top to fill up a smaller tank, it will fill
the smaller tank until the pressure in it is the same as the pressure
in the larger tank. I think if the two tanks are the same
temperature, it will stop with only gas in the smaller tank. But if
the smaller tank is colder than the bigger tank, gas will condense
into liquid form in there, gradually filling it up. (As it condenses,
more gas will migrate over from the bigger tank.) All speculation
here.

Another possibility might be if you could somehow stick your filler
tube down to the bottom of the large tank, so that the pressure would
force liquid out instead of gas. Like a seltzer bottle. -- H


You're correct on both counts, as a previous poster said, if you cool
the tank being filled with ice water even the gaseous transfer will fill
the receiving tank pretty fast.

But the tricky thing is making damn sure that tank isn't filled beyound
its safe capacity, or when it warms back up the expanding liquid could
pop the relief valve and let propane flow out into the surrounding area.

If it's a 20 or 30 lb tank made after October 1998 with an OPD (overfill
protection device - indicated by a triangular valve handle), then that
should stop the filling while there's still appropriate room for thermal
expansion of the liquid. But I'm not sure I'd rely on that valve closing
tightly enough to prevent "gaseous filling and condensing" if you left
the filling setup alone for a long period.

I'd side with the posters who say, "Leave it alone and let the pros
handle it You have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:32:38 -0700, Karma Ghia
wrote:


I would seek out a company that will sell you a tank, the rental scam
is expensive.

It's not a scam, It's an alternative arrangement. He could have
found one to sell him a tank in the first place.

One reason renting is expensive is the same reason renting apartments
is expensive. Bad tenants do damage that all the other customers have
to pay for. One way to do that here would be to vent the gas, pollute
the atmosphre, and require the tank company to purge the tank before
they can use it again

I doubt the propane company has done anything to deserve bad
treatment, the OP hasn't said what they did that he thinks is so bad,
and we haven't heard their side of the story either. A lot of people
make agreements and then consider it unfair when they are expected to
live up to them.



good luck!

--

wrote:

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

As long as we're into this, can someone comment on whether OPD valves
are foolproof?

It looks to me like they could be "fooled" into not doing their job if
the tank being filled were turned upside down or lying on its side with
the float arm pointing the "wrong way".

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't
send me any freakin' spam wrote:

LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) is a mixture of propane and butane.

LPG is a generic term that covers a lot of chemistry.

When it's colder, it has more propane in it to keep it from liquifying.

Reads better the other way around. You *want* the liquid LPG to be a gas before
you burn it. So when it's colder it has more Propane it it to help it gassify.

So, when I go and fill my tank with gas for my BBQ, am I getting propane or LPG?

Wrong question. When you go to fill your BBQ tank, you might ask your supplier
what the LPG mix is. Is it pure Propane, pure Butane or a mix of the two? The
supplier will know what is being distributed in your area.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:32:33 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:34:22 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:40:35 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:36:36 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Do I just connect from tank to tank, ...

Sure, just turn the 500 gallon tank upside down first, so you get liquid
out, like you did refilling disposables from an upside-down 20 lb'er.

Expect cryogenic, flammable liquid to spew in your face, blinding you, and
instantly frostbiting your skin, just before the massive explosion and fire
that ends your life in a blood-curdling cry of gurgled horror, with your
family and neighbors watching your staggering death-walk across the lawn as
your burned lungs starve you of oxygen and you collapse.

Other than that, yep, it's just not "all that much different other than the
amounts".

Ok, I don't know about the rest of you, but I just lost total bladder
control. :)

Richard Pryor is/was funny, when he talked about catching on fire.

Fire! That **** can make you run FAST. (words to that affect).


"when you're running down hollywood blvd, with your clothes on fire,
people get out of your way.."

Especially, when one is slapping himself all over.

My laughter tears are starting to dissipate. Great laugh.
--
Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:32:33 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

Richard Pryor is/was funny, when he talked about catching on fire.

Fire! That **** can make you run FAST. (words to that affect).

"when you're running down hollywood blvd, with your clothes on fire,
people get out of your way.."

He was a pretty funny guy, for sure. Kidding aside, as some of us
know, propane isn't always our friend. At this point, the main tank
has roughly 20 to 30 pounds of propane left in it (presumably
something less with each passing day) and it seems rather foolish to
risk serious injury and death for so little gain, especially if the
propane dealer will provide a refund on the balance remaining (as is
most likely required by state law). And I take it your homeowner's
policy is null and void if you tamper with the tank and that you will
be held criminally responsible for any damage you may inflict on
neighbouring property. Not a smart way to go, IMHO.

Cheers,
Paul

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:28:02 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

wrote:

I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

As long as we're into this, can someone comment on whether OPD valves
are foolproof?

It looks to me like they could be "fooled" into not doing their job if
the tank being filled were turned upside down or lying on its side with
the float arm pointing the "wrong way".

Float arm? Is there a float arm?

Or are we talking about a toilet?

Jeff

mm wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:28:02 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


wrote:


I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank. The tank
contains about 5% and the heating season is almost ended. If there is
any gas left, I'd like to fill all of my 20lb cylinders and if needed,
I can borrow several 100lb ones from a neighbor. I can always use
these, and I want to make sure the bulk tank is empty, but dont want
to just waste it. I have the pipe adaptors for both tanks and a
certified for propane hose. Do I just connect from tank to tank, or
should I do it after the bulk tank regulator?

Yes, I know that the 20 Lb cylinders should not weight more than 20
lbs more than the empty tank, and I have something to get a rough
weight measurement on them. I'll underfill them just to be safe, and
they will remain outdoors after I do it. Of course all this will be
done outdoors too.

Has anyone ever done this? I've filled the refillable torch bottles
from 20lb cylinders in the past, so I dont see this all that much
different other than the amounts.

As long as we're into this, can someone comment on whether OPD valves
are foolproof?

It looks to me like they could be "fooled" into not doing their job if
the tank being filled were turned upside down or lying on its side with
the float arm pointing the "wrong way".


Float arm? Is there a float arm?

Or are we talking about a toilet?

Jeff



Surely you jest:

http://www.propaneproducts.com/cylinder-valves.html

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:19:10 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:



Float arm? Is there a float arm?

Or are we talking about a toilet?

Jeff



Surely you jest:

I never jest about propane, sir. or propane accessories.

http://www.propaneproducts.com/cylinder-valves.html

Wow. What a great idea. Thanks.

Jeff

mm wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:19:10 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


Float arm? Is there a float arm?

Or are we talking about a toilet?


Jeff


Surely you jest:


I never jest about propane, sir. or propane accessories.


http://www.propaneproducts.com/cylinder-valves.html


Wow. What a great idea. Thanks.


Jeff



Assuming you were serious about not realizing that they use a float arm
to shut off the inlet passage when the liquid propane reaches the safe
"full" level, now do you see why I questioned whether they work if the
tank being filled is lying on it's (wrong) side?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

wrote in message
...
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank.

Did those *******s actually make you PAY for propane when the tank was
getting close to empty? and when it was cold outside!?

On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 17:46:18 -0400, "GROUP MODERATOR"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
I have a 500 gal. propane tank in my yard for heating. I am changing
suppliers so the old company is going to come and get their rental
tank. The company I have been doing business with are real a$$holes,
so I want to make sure there is no gas left in the tank.

Did those *******s actually make you PAY for propane when the tank was
getting close to empty? and when it was cold outside!?

I am just reading the thread, but I thought they hadn't done anything
yet. Didn't he pay for the propane when they delivered it? and the
question now was what would happen to the part that is left when they
removed the tank.

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:25:31 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:



Assuming you were serious about not realizing that they use a float arm
to shut off the inlet passage when the liquid propane reaches the safe
"full" level, now do you see why I questioned whether they work if the
tank being filled is lying on it's (wrong) side?

Yeah. I would think one could get past the valve that way. I thought
about mentioning that but I figured a more convincing agreement on the
matter would come from someone who didn't look like a jester. grin.


Jeff

Propane is heavier than air. Be sure to pick a VERY windy day, or
you'll have a serious safety problem.

Better to just run the heat up full blast, and open the windows.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
: If you're really anal and just want to get even no matter what
the cost, be
: sure to open the valve and let whatever's in there run out.
You won't get
: anything, but they won't either.
:
: Steve
:
: