I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits in the
kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches are in the
other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

Is it reasonable that this keeps happening? The house is pretty old, but
the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be not so
new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low, or if there aren't enough
circuits, or whether that's an unreasonable load.

There's also a washer/dryer in the kitchen, though that hasn't been on
either time.

TIA

sinister wrote:
I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits
in the kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches
are in the other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

Well I sure hope you are not expecting to run any more than one of those
on the same circuit at the same time. Any two show blow the breaker.



Is it reasonable that this keeps happening? The house is pretty old,
but the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be
not so new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low, or if there aren't
enough circuits, or whether that's an unreasonable load.

There's also a washer/dryer in the kitchen, though that hasn't been on
either time.

TIA

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

sinister wrote:
I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits in the
kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches are in the
other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

Is it reasonable that this keeps happening? The house is pretty old, but
the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be not so
new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low, or if there aren't enough
circuits, or whether that's an unreasonable load.

There's also a washer/dryer in the kitchen, though that hasn't been on
either time.

TIA



As others have suggested, you appear to be overloading the breaker.
Your solution COULD be as simple as plugging one of the appliances into
a different circuit. When the breaker trips, see if a nearby circuit is
still active and move one of them to it.

In article , "sinister" wrote:
I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits in the
kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches are in the
other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

1875 W / 120 V = 15.6 A

13 + 6.5 + 15.6 = 35.1

Is it reasonable that this keeps happening?

Reasonable that the circuit breaker keeps tripping, yes.
Reasonable that you're overloading it, well... maybe not. :-)

The house is pretty old, but
the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be not so
new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low,

No -- you're overloading it.

or if there aren't enough circuits,

You need *at*least* two circuits for that load, and three would be better.

or whether that's an unreasonable load.

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.

wrote in message
ps.com...
Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.

Also happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

Doug Miller wrote:

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Don't get him started about the malfunctioning dishwasher...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "sinister"
wrote:
I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits in
the
kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches are in the
other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

1875 W / 120 V = 15.6 A

13 + 6.5 + 15.6 = 35.1

Is it reasonable that this keeps happening?

Reasonable that the circuit breaker keeps tripping, yes.
Reasonable that you're overloading it, well... maybe not. :-)

Thanks for responding to my post.

I meant, reasonable that the kitchen seems to be wired with so few circuits.

I just tested...there's one other outlet near the sink, that's not on the
same circuit. (In-sink garbage disposal and perhaps some of the big
appliances are on that circuit.) But AFAICT there's only one outlet on that
circuit.

But the fridge and microwave are on one circuit, for sure, and that's
already 19.5 A.

The house is pretty old, but
the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be not so
new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low,

No -- you're overloading it.

or if there aren't enough circuits,

You need *at*least* two circuits for that load, and three would be better.

or whether that's an unreasonable load.

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Wife likes to dry her hair while she's eating.

Also, it happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.

Also happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

So don't try to run the microwave, toaster, and fridge at the same time. Or
move at least one of them to a different circuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "sinister"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.

Also happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

So don't try to run the microwave, toaster, and fridge at the same time.
Or
move at least one of them to a different circuit.

Yeah, and that still leaves the fridge plus microwave on one circuit, at
19.5 A, which is pretty close to 20 A, which is possibly the limit for that
circuit.

Not to mention this balogne that the circuit breaker box is in the other
half of the house, behind a huge entertainment center.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...

Thanks for responding to my post.

I meant, reasonable that the kitchen seems to be wired with so few circuits.

In an older home, sure. Very common.

I just tested...there's one other outlet near the sink, that's not on the
same circuit. (In-sink garbage disposal and perhaps some of the big
appliances are on that circuit.) But AFAICT there's only one outlet on that
circuit.

That would be a good place to plug in one of your high-current appliances.

But the fridge and microwave are on one circuit, for sure, and that's
already 19.5 A.

You really should move the microwave to a different circuit.

[snip]
That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Wife likes to dry her hair while she's eating.

Unless you can find a different circuit in the kitchen to plug that into,
she'll have to give that up.

Also, it happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

Not surprising at all -- that's more than enough to overload a 20A circuit.
You should not have the toaster and the microwave on the same circuit, or, if
you can't avoid that, don't operate them both at the same time.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Don't get him started about the malfunctioning dishwasher...

Yeah, God forbid landlords would actually have to keep their units in good
repair.

Though actually in this case the dishwasher is pretty state-of-the-art.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "sinister"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...

Thanks for responding to my post.

I meant, reasonable that the kitchen seems to be wired with so few
circuits.

In an older home, sure. Very common.

I just tested...there's one other outlet near the sink, that's not on the
same circuit. (In-sink garbage disposal and perhaps some of the big
appliances are on that circuit.) But AFAICT there's only one outlet on
that
circuit.

That would be a good place to plug in one of your high-current appliances.

But the fridge and microwave are on one circuit, for sure, and that's
already 19.5 A.

You really should move the microwave to a different circuit.

[snip]
That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Wife likes to dry her hair while she's eating.

Unless you can find a different circuit in the kitchen to plug that into,
she'll have to give that up.

Also, it happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

Not surprising at all -- that's more than enough to overload a 20A
circuit.
You should not have the toaster and the microwave on the same circuit, or,
if
you can't avoid that, don't operate them both at the same time.

Is it OK that the MW + fridge is 13 + 6.5 = 19.5 A? Or does that mean that
one should definitely be moved?

Thanks for the very prompt and informative replies.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Don't get him started about the malfunctioning dishwasher...

Yeah, God forbid landlords would actually have to keep their units in good
repair.

And the landlord is probably thinking, God forbid that tenants would ever
overload the circuits.

The electrical code does not require upgrades to existing installations that
were Code-compliant at the time they were installed.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "sinister"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

That's an unreasonable load. Why are you running the hair dryer in the
kitchen?

Don't get him started about the malfunctioning dishwasher...

Yeah, God forbid landlords would actually have to keep their units in good
repair.

And the landlord is probably thinking, God forbid that tenants would ever
overload the circuits.

Except that the same microwave and fridge were on that circuit when we moved
in, and the owner herself had been living here for a few months when we
moved in.

The electrical code does not require upgrades to existing installations
that
were Code-compliant at the time they were installed.

I figured that might be the case.

Cheers.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article , "sinister"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.

Also happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

So don't try to run the microwave, toaster, and fridge at the same time. Or
move at least one of them to a different circuit.

Yeah, and that still leaves the fridge plus microwave on one circuit, at
19.5 A, which is pretty close to 20 A, which is possibly the limit for that
circuit.

Well, you have a problem there. You're trying to put more load on the circuits
than they can handle. And you're renting, so you can't modify them.

Your choices are, unfortunately, pretty limited:
a) stop overloading the circuit
b) live with the breaker trips
c) move.

You could try to persuade the landlord to add a couple of new 20A circuits in
the kitchen, but I doubt he's going to do that out of his own pocket.

Not to mention this balogne that the circuit breaker box is in the other
half of the house,

Of course, that wouldn't be an issue if you weren't overloading the circuit.

behind a huge entertainment center.

*That* is a violation of the electrical code, which requires breaker panels to
be in a "readily accessible" location. If you have to move the entertainment
center to get at the panel, it's not "readily accessible". (OTOH, if the
entertainment center is far enough away from the wall that you can walk behind
it, it may meet that requirement.)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

Is it OK that the MW + fridge is 13 + 6.5 = 19.5 A? Or does that mean that
one should definitely be moved?

No, it's not OK. Those definitely should be on different circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "sinister" wrote:

Except that the same microwave and fridge were on that circuit when we moved
in, and the owner herself had been living here for a few months when we
moved in.

The refrigerator doesn't draw the full 13 amps the whole time it's running,
and probably the microwave doesn't either, so the two together won't
necessarily trip the breaker every time.

However... if the building is old enough to have so few circuits in the
kitchen, (a) the circuits may be only 15A, not 20A, and (b) the wiring is
likely not in the greatest shape either. The two should not be on the same
circuit. And the toaster and hair dryer *definitely* should not be on that
circuit *too*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "sinister" wrote:


Is it OK that the MW + fridge is 13 + 6.5 = 19.5 A? Or does that mean that
one should definitely be moved?


No, it's not OK. Those definitely should be on different circuits.


If it is a 20A circuit it should work. The microwave is not on for long
periods anyway. It is possible that with the microwave on the starting
current of the refrig would trip the breaker, but I doubt it.

--
bud--

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:40:58 -0400, "sinister"
wrote:

I'm renting the top half of a house.

For the second time now, the circuit breaker for one of the circuits in the
kitchen tripped. (Aside: annoying 'cuz the breaker switches are in the
other half of the house.)

Here's what was running and what their labels say:
* Microwave (13 amps)
* Fridge (6.5 amps)
* Hair dryer (blower): 1875 W

= something like 16 or 17 amps.

I would stop using the hair dryer when the microwave is running.

The fridge goes on automatically, so that would be very hard to
coordinate, and you've said that the landlord used to use both the
microwave and the fridge, so I doubt if those two alone will blow the
breaker. And if I were her, I would not have a lot of sympathy. I
would say, "Don't use the hairdryer when you use the microwave."

(I would think the microwave uses about the same during its entire
cycle.)

I used to have a 7 room, 3 bathroom, aparment with 3 roommates, 4 of
us total, and we got by on 20 amps for the whole place. One slo-blo
fuse in the basement. (And 2 15-amp slo-blo at the apartment.)

For a couple summers I even had a small window AC, and I was pretty
sure when the fridge and the AC went on at the same time, I would blow
the fuse. But I don't think I ever did.

And I had a big micorwave, but didn't have occasion to use it, and
wouldn't have, when the AC was on.

None of us guys used hair dryers, however.

Is it reasonable that this keeps happening? The house is pretty old, but
the kitchen is supposedly an addition. (Though it could still be not so
new.)

I'm not sure if the amps/circuit is too low, or if there aren't enough
circuits, or whether that's an unreasonable load.

There's also a washer/dryer in the kitchen, though that hasn't been on
either time.

TIA

Running on one 20 amp slo-blo fuse (and circuit breakers are all
slo-blow, iiuc.) I never blew the 20 amp fuse by using the big model 2
Amana microwave, and I'm sure the fridge went on some of those times
over 5 years.

But blown breakers turn out to be a problem, mayybe

If this gets to be a problem, and you could convince the ll this would
be a long term solution, maybe a breaker accessible to you could be
installed and the one behind the entertainment center bypassed if that
would be legal.

But I would never even suggest that until I had stopped using 3 big
items at the same time.

You may not have realized before how much a hair dryer or toaster oven
uses. They use enormous amounts. Generally speaking, things that
make electric heat or remove heat use the most current. Things that
make light are next, except for fluorescents. Motors use even less,
if they drive fans or turn CDs, but use a lot if they drive AC
compressors. Clocks and transistor radios, even the ones that plug
in, use very little.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:38:53 -0400, "sinister"
wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message

And the landlord is probably thinking, God forbid that tenants would ever
overload the circuits.

Except that the same microwave and fridge were on that circuit when we moved
in, and the owner herself had been living here for a few months when we
moved in.

I think that will make her less sympathetic to your problem.

The electrical code does not require upgrades to existing installations
that
were Code-compliant at the time they were installed.

I figured that might be the case.

Cheers.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "sinister" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "sinister"
wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Don't dry your hair in the kitchen. Duh.
Also happened when the microwave, 900 W toaster, and fridge were on.

So don't try to run the microwave, toaster, and fridge at the same time. Or
move at least one of them to a different circuit.
Yeah, and that still leaves the fridge plus microwave on one circuit, at
19.5 A, which is pretty close to 20 A, which is possibly the limit for that
circuit.

Well, you have a problem there. You're trying to put more load on the circuits
than they can handle. And you're renting, so you can't modify them.

Your choices are, unfortunately, pretty limited:
a) stop overloading the circuit
b) live with the breaker trips
c) move.

You could try to persuade the landlord to add a couple of new 20A circuits in
the kitchen, but I doubt he's going to do that out of his own pocket.
Not to mention this balogne that the circuit breaker box is in the other
half of the house,

Of course, that wouldn't be an issue if you weren't overloading the circuit.

behind a huge entertainment center.

*That* is a violation of the electrical code, which requires breaker panels to
be in a "readily accessible" location. If you have to move the entertainment
center to get at the panel, it's not "readily accessible". (OTOH, if the
entertainment center is far enough away from the wall that you can walk behind
it, it may meet that requirement.)


It seams unlikely that the second apartment was done with permits. The
electrical code specifically forbids supplying a dwelling unit from a
panel located in another dwelling unit. The breakers serving a dwelling
unit must be accessible to the occupants of that dwelling unit without
opening locks or entering another dwelling unit.
--
Tom Horne