I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike

On Mar 22, 12:49 pm, "Mike" wrote:
I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture attached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inches needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is just left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike

Good question I went to replace an outdoor light fixture on my
daughter's house and found no outlet (octagon etc.) box at all in the
soffit! I was able to wangle some wood through the soffit hole and
secure it to the house and a new octagon box to it to provide a
sufficiently secure mounting for a new sensor/photo cell controlled
'double floodlight' fixture. I wasn't heaping blessings on the
original electrician while I was up the ladder doing it though! Your
approach sounds like a good one.

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike


Even if it was permitted I would not bring more than one cable into a
pancake box. When you go to hang the fixtures the extra wires will get in
the way of the fixture stud and bracket. It will be more trouble then it is
worth. Talk to the owner/contractor/architect or whoever will be finishing
the exterior and find out exactly how much depth you have to work with. It
would be great if you could get a 4" x 1 1/2"octagonal box in for your two
cables and the box comes out to be flush with the finished exterior. If not
find a place to put a deep square junction box where it will be accessible
and bring all of your cables there.

Generally speaking for a rough electrical inspection you would need to have
your boxes mounted and grounded (If metal). I suppose you could claim to be
installing surface pancake boxes upon completion of the exterior. It
depends on the inspector.

Install deep boxes with screws. Have the inspection. change the boxes and
proceed.

--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:
www.lightsout.org




"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike

On Mar 22, 10:49�am, "Mike" wrote:
I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. *But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? *If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

Yes to both, it's not an uncommon practice due to physical restraints
during construction. (2002) NEC Section 314.16(A) states: "The
volume of a wiring enclosure (box) shall be the total volume of the
assembled sections, and, where used, the space provided by plaster
rings, domed covers, extension rings, and so forth, that are marked
with their volume or are made from boxes the dimentions of which are
listed in Table 314.16(A)." I'm sure the 2005 NEC has a similar
statement, maybe in a different section number.

If you can use larger boxes, do so.

I've never seen an inspector check for a stamped volume on a fixture
dome, but guess there's a first time for everything. Most inspectors
will take your word for it on the rough-in, but if you want, have one
of the fixtures on hand to show the inspector during the rough-in
inspection.

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? *I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Depends on the wall and the finish. Usually one does what makes life
easier for other trades, yet at the same time does not create a lot of
extra work for oneself. Ask 'em.

On Mar 22, 6:19 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

oups.com...



I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike

Even if it was permitted I would not bring more than one cable into a
pancake box. When you go to hang the fixtures the extra wires will get in
the way of the fixture stud and bracket. It will be more trouble then it is
worth. Talk to the owner/contractor/architect or whoever will be finishing
the exterior and find out exactly how much depth you have to work with. It
would be great if you could get a 4" x 1 1/2"octagonal box in for your two
cables and the box comes out to be flush with the finished exterior. If not
find a place to put a deep square junction box where it will be accessible
and bring all of your cables there.

Generally speaking for a rough electrical inspection you would need to have
your boxes mounted and grounded (If metal). I suppose you could claim to be
installing surface pancake boxes upon completion of the exterior. It
depends on the inspector.

This is a good answer and I have no problem installing 1.5" deep
boxes; for some reason I had tought the 1/2" deep pancake box was the
only solution, but I can fit a 1.5" deep box there just as easily. As
long as the box can be mounted externally and against the sheeting I'm
happy; I'll surround the boxes with a 1.5" thick piece of trim anyways
so no issue with the depth. So now as long as my rough in can get by
just having the exterior lamp wires hanging through a hole in the
sheating I'll be good; I'd like to leave the final position/height of
the box (+/- a few inches only) to when the trim/siding is being
installed.

Mike

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 22, 6:19 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

oups.com...



I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike

Even if it was permitted I would not bring more than one cable into a
pancake box. When you go to hang the fixtures the extra wires will get
in
the way of the fixture stud and bracket. It will be more trouble then
it is
worth. Talk to the owner/contractor/architect or whoever will be
finishing
the exterior and find out exactly how much depth you have to work with.
It
would be great if you could get a 4" x 1 1/2"octagonal box in for your
two
cables and the box comes out to be flush with the finished exterior. If
not
find a place to put a deep square junction box where it will be
accessible
and bring all of your cables there.

Generally speaking for a rough electrical inspection you would need to
have
your boxes mounted and grounded (If metal). I suppose you could claim
to be
installing surface pancake boxes upon completion of the exterior. It
depends on the inspector.

This is a good answer and I have no problem installing 1.5" deep
boxes; for some reason I had tought the 1/2" deep pancake box was the
only solution, but I can fit a 1.5" deep box there just as easily. As
long as the box can be mounted externally and against the sheeting I'm
happy; I'll surround the boxes with a 1.5" thick piece of trim anyways
so no issue with the depth. So now as long as my rough in can get by
just having the exterior lamp wires hanging through a hole in the
sheating I'll be good; I'd like to leave the final position/height of
the box (+/- a few inches only) to when the trim/siding is being
installed.

Mike


Have you checked out the siding boxes from Arlington Industries? They have
quite a selection of boxes that can be mounted on siding after it has been
installed. I'm not sure about their cubic inch capacity though. Some of
their items are available at Home Depot, but many electrical supply
companies carry the full line.

On 22 Mar 2007 07:49:13 -0700, "Mike" wrote:

I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good
for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I
also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake
box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is
domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the
junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with
it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building;
can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot
ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box +
domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building
exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the
wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get
their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/
fixtures.

Mike
imho:

You need 6 cubic inches for a dead ended 14/2. So the pancake boxe
provides the min required. For a junction box to splice two 14/2's
you need 10 cubic inches. I think your observation about the size of
a pancake box makes it clear what the NEC would say about using it as
a junction box.

FYI, check with your AHJ. They have the ultimate say.

tom @ www.Donate-Car-2-Charity.com