What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

This may be a really crazy idea, but has anyone invented a way of
drilling a hole in the lower cinder blocks, let all the water drain
out, and then filling in all the blocks' spaces with some kind of
filler/expanding stuff to keep the water pressure from filling them up
in the first place?

So what should we do, Drylok + wood studs + drywall + dehumidifier?
Drylok+wood+poly+drywall?
I have also read mixed reviews on the mold-resistant drywall, should
we use that?
Help me, I am losing my mind because everywhere I go I get different
answers.

On Mar 17, 8:32 pm, "MW" wrote:
What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

This may be a really crazy idea, but has anyone invented a way of
drilling a hole in the lower cinder blocks, let all the water drain
out, and then filling in all the blocks' spaces with some kind of
filler/expanding stuff to keep the water pressure from filling them up
in the first place?

So what should we do, Drylok + wood studs + drywall + dehumidifier?
Drylok+wood+poly+drywall?
I have also read mixed reviews on the mold-resistant drywall, should
we use that?
Help me, I am losing my mind because everywhere I go I get different
answers.

Well if you want another 20 or so opionions pulled out of a hat,
you've come to the right place. I can definitively say that if you
finish your basement, you are taking a risk no matter what anyone
says. Some basements just shouldn't be finished. I'm not saying yours
is or not, but be aware you are taking a risk.

I really doubt that the lower course of blocks is actually full of
water. If that were the case, you would have water running on the
floor, which say you don't have. Forget about knocking holes in the
block. Your not going to stop this dampness problem with any kind of
coatings.

If you really don't have trouble with running water, it's hard to see
the value of running a perimeter drain on the inside. This would not
harm your foundation, but it's hard to see the value of spending 6500
on this. If you were going to install a perimeter drain, you'd need
to have it on the outside, which you've ruled out.

Other people will say it, so I might as well be the first: check your
landscaping. Keep gutters and downspouts working. Wet clay soils are
tough to deal with.

As for what you use for framing etc, I am of the opinion that you
shouldn't put anything against the block that provides an environment
for mold, even with a poly vapor barrier against the block. No wood,
no fiberglass insulation. I finished my basement by fastening 2"
rigid foam to the block with a 1x3 furring strip on top of the foam
anchored with a 4" tapcon. Then regular drywall on top of that. Let
'er get damp behind the foam is my opinion, but this is my own house,
and if it doesn't work, I'll just tear it out and redo. Time will
tell whether I did the right thing or not.

"marson" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 17, 8:32 pm, "MW" wrote:

Other people will say it, so I might as well be the first: check your
landscaping. Keep gutters and downspouts working. Wet clay soils are
tough to deal with.


if wet clay soil is bad against the foundation, what natural material would
be better? if i could dig up around a problem area and replace it with
'something' would coarse sand be a better choice? what about pea gravel?

i'm trying to protect one area and there is a drain there, but it's 2 feet
from the house. that two feet right now is wet clay soil. it's not leaking
into the basement, but i want to dig much of it just as a preventative. i'm
trying to figure out what to replace it with. thanks

On Mar 18, 8:08 am, "David Rothman" wrote:
"marson" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 17, 8:32 pm, "MW" wrote:

Other people will say it, so I might as well be the first: check your
landscaping. Keep gutters and downspouts working. Wet clay soils are
tough to deal with.

if wet clay soil is bad against the foundation, what natural material would
be better? if i could dig up around a problem area and replace it with
'something' would coarse sand be a better choice? what about pea gravel?

i'm trying to protect one area and there is a drain there, but it's 2 feet
from the house. that two feet right now is wet clay soil. it's not leaking
into the basement, but i want to dig much of it just as a preventative. i'm
trying to figure out what to replace it with. thanks

clean sand is what you want. Wet soil can product hydrostatic
pressure and force water into a foundation. Sand will not exert
hydrostatic pressure. Of course, if the sand can get saturated, then
it does no good, so you have to have a means for the water to get out.

In article .com, MW says...

What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

I have a similar system, installed by B-Dry for 11 years now; I'm extremely
happy with it. If you do it see if you can have it drain out to daylight by
gravity and not have a sump pump to worry about powering. As to "hacking into
the foundation", actually it's the slab that's "hacked into" (jackhammered) to
get the drain system in. The bottom blocks get holes for drainage and covering
directing any moisture to the trench. I'd be more comfortable with that than
excavating all around. There still can be some humidity through the walls, but
the water has a place to go, pressure is mitigated, and you won't get flooded.

Where do you live? A three and a half year window of time can easily miss
events large enough to get water into the basement.


This may be a really crazy idea, but has anyone invented a way of
drilling a hole in the lower cinder blocks, let all the water drain
out, and then filling in all the blocks' spaces with some kind of
filler/expanding stuff to keep the water pressure from filling them up
in the first place?

Don't try to stop water. It needs a place to go. If some contractor tells you
he can stop the water by some barrier without also channelling it somewhere, he
needs to be shown the door as he doesnt' know the first thing about building and
hydrology. That may narrow your field a bit.


So what should we do, Drylok + wood studs + drywall + dehumidifier?
Drylok+wood+poly+drywall?
I have also read mixed reviews on the mold-resistant drywall, should
we use that?
Help me, I am losing my mind because everywhere I go I get different
answers.


I have a 47 year old house with a block foundation in heavy clay soils in
upstate NY.

I have the BDry, and older cove system behind much of the finished area,
finished with wood studs offset + drywall offset from the bottom, finished with
simple dark stained mouldings. For at least 20 years (13 with me in the house)
and I had flooding before the BDry was put in. Use commercial-grade carpet
and/or vinyl on the floor. More problems than what you have, but still a
finished area in the basement. Nearly every 1960 track ranch house like mine on
my street has some or all the basement finished. So you should be able to do
this and enjoy the space too.

Forget the DryLock as far as stopping water. It can make a nice coating, though
if the water can go somewhere else.

Do you have neighbors with similar houses? See what they have done and how
happy they've been with their solutions. Same construction maybe, similar
soils. That would help you sort through the solutions.

Banty

MW wrote:
What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

There are two kinds of moisture problems, external and internal.

Internal is just the moisture in the are condensing on the cooler walls.
(Tape some foil or plastic to the wall. If it ends up wet on top, it is
internal, if it is only wet towards the wall it is external. It may be
both.

External problems should be addressed for outside. That is where the
problem is. You get water away from the wall first, and make sure there is
some sort of drain around the outside.

Each case is different so the correct solution for me is not likely to
be the correct solution for you. There are a couple of general comments
that should help you rule out some contractors.

If the water is coming in from the outside and they want to "waterproof"
your walls from the inside, just laugh at them and send them on their way.
If they are offering something quick and cheap, forget them.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article .com, MW
says...

What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

As to "hacking into
the foundation", actually it's the slab that's "hacked into"
(jackhammered) to
get the drain system in.

Not in most basements that I have seen and designed. In my last house the
basement walls sat on 12" thick footings that extended 5 feet horizontally
(all around) into the basement. The four inch slab was poured on top of the
footings. Jack hammering through those footings and re-bar would totally
undermine the stabilty of the basement walls.

Ivan Vegvary

How much is the OP planning on spending for the remodeling?

How much are they willing to spend to prevent moisture troubles?

30K for remodeling?

Do the interior french drain to sump or preferably dalight outside so
you DONT need a sump pump, and back up sump pump in case of power or
pump failure. Gravity is very reliable!

Look I have been all thru this, spent 10K digging and installing
outside french drains, new sidewalks, regrading yard, landscaping. I
did a lot of the work to save bucks. After that water still in
basement

Moisture enters ion many ways and as others have said you CANT stoip
it just redirect it somewhere else.

the interior french drain is the ONLY way to go!

then clean walls, drylock them. let sit awhile to fully dry.

then do your remodel.

install basement ingress egress windows, to increase home value, you
can then call it a bedroom more money at resale

In article 56dLh.5022$FS5.4956@trndny09, Ivan Vegvary says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article .com, MW
says...

What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

As to "hacking into
the foundation", actually it's the slab that's "hacked into"
(jackhammered) to
get the drain system in.

Not in most basements that I have seen and designed. In my last house the
basement walls sat on 12" thick footings that extended 5 feet horizontally
(all around) into the basement. The four inch slab was poured on top of the
footings. Jack hammering through those footings and re-bar would totally
undermine the stabilty of the basement walls.

My foundation most certainly wasn't built like that (inadequate footers why I
did an upgrade on my downhill side). Much less footing, more slab thickness.
But what houses here need would be quite different from yours, else you'd be
talking about frost depths of at least 42". This is one reason why talking to
neighbors come in. They likely will have, after 45 years, gone various routes
with various degrees of success, and have more information about the houses if
others were built like his.

Banty

the interior french drain is the ONLY way to go!

So it sounds like the OP has damp walls, and he is clay soil. So just how does the interior french drain correct this problem, given that clay is impervious to water, and he doesn't have footing crossover drains?

On Mar 18, 12:45�pm, "marson" wrote:
the interior french drain is the ONLY way to go!

So it sounds like the OP has damp walls, and he is clay soil. *So just how does the interior french drain correct this problem, given that clay is impervious to water, and he doesn't have footing crossover drains?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The interior french drain opens the bottom of EVERY block so any water
that gets into a block exits at the bottom, into the interior french
drain, and travels by sump pump or gravity drain well away from home.

normally a plastic corrugated strip is added like a baseboard around
all the perimeter walls. I caulked the top of mine to seal it, used
cases of caulking, it took days of hand pain.

If the basement is moist any money spent on remodeling is a complete
waste

In addition outside drainage so rain doesnt pool by home and downspout
water well away from foundation is key before a basment remodel.

Once its dry is better to use water resistant wall materials. so a 100
year flood doesnt muck things up.

remember there is NO INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR FLOODS unless you buy
special flood insurance!

You can easily lose all the money you spent on the basement remodel:
( POOF GONE

On Mar 17, 9:32 pm, "MW" wrote:
What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due tomold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

This may be a really crazy idea, but has anyone invented a way of
drilling a hole in the lower cinder blocks, let all the water drain
out, and then filling in all the blocks' spaces with some kind of
filler/expanding stuff to keep the water pressure from filling them up
in the first place?

So what should we do, Drylok + wood studs + drywall + dehumidifier?
Drylok+wood+poly+drywall?
I have also read mixed reviews on themold-resistant drywall, should
we use that?
Help me, I am losing my mind because everywhere I go I get different
answers.

Mycodyne can be applied to the concrete walls. the walls are sweating
and moist due to the high humidity. get some dehumidifiers down
there. Treat the concrete walls and any areas you build new walls.
this will prevent mold and give you a 25 year warranty. Only costs .
40 cents a square foot and you can do it yourself to save more money.
And yes use the mold resistant products out there. Nu-wol insulation
and the mold resistant drywall.

Mold Shield LLC
www.moldshield.org

Well your going to get more opinions here....

Moisture is your problem. Dehumidifiers will always be the answer.
Scrap the french drains.

In terms of finishing off the walls, thats a tricky one. There are
a few ways. Drywall is cheap in materials and they do make
mold resistant ones out there now. I used greenboard on all the
outer
walls a regular drywall on the ceiling.

There are basement finishing systems out there too. They are sort
of like removable panels on the walls. Looks ok but I do love the
idea
that you can easily go behind the walls if you had to by just removing
a
section.

Your budget is going to determine the type of job you want to do.
G o with the contractor that you feel comfortable with. I personally
wouldnt be
into guys trying to dig up the outside nor inside of the house.


Tom




On Mar 17, 9:32 pm, "MW" wrote:
What a can of worms this is becoming. We are going to finish our 45-
yr-old basement, and so far, 6 contractors have 6 different ways of
dealing with our moisture problem.

All around the bottom-most foot or so of the cinder block walls of the
basement, the old paint (I assume its Drylok) is falling off and there
is efflouresence too. There is no damp or musty smell, but I know
it's humid down there. Even now, in the winter, it's 60% humidity.
We have never, in 3 1/2 years, had actual water come into the
basement, just this seeping moisture. We have heavy clay soils.

I am afraid what will happen when we put walls up. Everywhere I go,
there is contradicting information, from professionals everywhe
put up poly, don't put up poly, use wood studs, use steel studs, use
insulation, don't insulate, etc etc etc.....It's enough to drive me
batty.
I am determined to do this, but don't want to spend $30K just to have
to tear it all out in a few years due to mold/moisture. And digging
up around the outside of the foundation is too costly for us, probably
$60K.
The moisture-proofing contractor insists we'll be sorry if we don't
break through the basement floor all around the perimeter of the
basement and install french drains for the water to go from inside the
cinder block walls. This for $6500 on top of the cost of finishing
the basement. I may be misguided, but I don't feel comfortable
hacking into the foundation.

This may be a really crazy idea, but has anyone invented a way of
drilling a hole in the lower cinder blocks, let all the water drain
out, and then filling in all the blocks' spaces with some kind of
filler/expanding stuff to keep the water pressure from filling them up
in the first place?

So what should we do, Drylok + wood studs + drywall + dehumidifier?
Drylok+wood+poly+drywall?
I have also read mixed reviews on the mold-resistant drywall, should
we use that?
Help me, I am losing my mind because everywhere I go I get different
answers.