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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?


"PE" wrote in message
...
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope that
the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years.


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?


"PE" wrote in message
...
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of
the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater. The
only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time.


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"PE" wrote in message
...

Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!



I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope that
the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years.


Hi,
Ditto but maybe after it is proven over time?
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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?


"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:MSMGh.1222124$5R2.293293@pd7urf3no...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"PE" wrote in message
...

Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!



I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope
that the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years.

Hi,
Ditto but maybe after it is proven over time?


I hate the words "should" and "maybe."

When one considers that usually once you solder a joint, you cover it up
with other stuff, and if there's a problem, there's a major problem ripping
it out and doing it again, plus the water damage, why would anyone even
consider doing it any other way but solder?

Yes, soldering is dangerous. But they make all sorts of shields and
blankets, and lots of times, the joints are out where there is very little
danger. Some pieces can be made in trees, and never come in contact with
anything dangerous or flammable.

Soldering isn't rocket surgery. I believe I could teach a monkey to do it
in a day, and a twentysomething lip pierced moron in two days. Get a clean
joint, use flux, don't overheat, learn how to flow solder, and bingo.

I have repaired some amazing things with JB Weld and other epoxies. But,
when you consider thermal expansion, water hammer, rollercoaster
temperatures, and other things, I'll stick with solder, even if epoxy is
proven to be adequate for copper pipe. You can still get your mix wrong
with epoxies, have surface contaminants, incorrect cleaning, and other
things that will cause ultimate failure.

And when there is a failure, you will be ripping and tearing, repairing
sodden materials, and most probably be dealing with mold down the line.

IIRC, years ago, they came up with this new water piping system that used
crimps and swages that was going to revolutionize the water pipe systems in
housing. All it turned into was ruined houses and class action suits.

If you can't at least solder, or learn how to do so in a day, you shouldn't
be messing with copper. It's that important.

Just my two pennies.

Steve




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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On getting the water out, Use Bread, white as it dissolves better, in the
pipe to block the water. They also make dissolving ball, kinda like the bath
scent balls.

Scott-
"Sacramento Dave" wrote in message
t...

"PE" wrote in message
...
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of
the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater.
The only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time.



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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?


"PE" wrote in message
...
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!

I used it once several years ago. The joints are still leak free. That
doesn't prove anything, but is encouraging.
However, I went to use it last year and it had gone bad. Way too expensive
for two joints!


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned.


I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get
it apart again if it leaks.

You can always put some sheet metal and a wet rag, if it will fit,
between the joint and any flammable material. You can get a baking
pan at Goodwill for a quarter and cut it to fit. There's really
nothing wrong with scorching the snot out of surrounding wood,
sometimes it can't be avoided.

Bust into your shower connection and you'll likely find burnt wood.
It ain't no biggie. Just be careful.
-----

- gpsman

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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?


"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned.


I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get
it apart again if it leaks.


I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come
apart.

Bob


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:20:52 -0800, "Sacramento Dave"
wrote:


Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of
the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater. The
only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time.


They might even have tested it for a few years in some small to
middle-sized application, in Denver or Mongolia, but I would like 100
year test. How long has soldered copper been used? There are
probably plenty of pipes around from the first decade of its use. I
don't think the rest of my house will last as long, but I think the
solder joints will last 200 years.


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On Mar 5, 1:15 am, "Bob F" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned.


I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get
it apart again if it leaks.


I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come
apart.


Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place?
-----

- gpsman

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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

Actually, Gerry, I'm both stupid AND lazy but, even so, I've managed to
become reasonably adept with flux, solder and torch. However I don't enjoy
doing it in confined spaces and was just wondering if there might be an
alternative that's worthy of consideration, although the consensus seems to
be to the contrary. Thanks for your insightful observations; they were
greatly appreciated, as was the glowing compliment!




"Gerry Atrick" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:05:11 -0800, "PE" wrote:

Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


Another product made for incoherent people who are too stupid or lazy
to solder the pipes together. Besides possibly being a product that
will fail after a few years, I wonder how many hours or days one has
to wait for the stuff to dry? Solder hardens in seconds, and has been
used forever. I'll stick to solder. (There are no places where pipes
can not be soldered, they make asbestos pads to prevent burning wood,
and a little water sprayed on charred wood always helps). OK, now go
ahead and post lots of flames about using asbestos pads, and how
dangerous asbestos is........



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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

In article .com,
"gpsman" wrote:

On Mar 5, 1:15 am, "Bob F" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned.


I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get
it apart again if it leaks.


I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come
apart.


Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place?


I'd guess less, I had to take apart some epoxied aluminum fittings on a
boat and heat softened the epoxy easily. Usually about 300 deg F does
it.
Committees of Correspondence Web page:- tinyurl.com/y7th2c
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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

I believe I could teach a monkey to do it
in a day, and a twentysomething lip
pierced moron in two days.


Steve!? 2 days for the moron? Optimistic!

Dave S(Texas)

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"Scott Townsend" wrote in message
...
On getting the water out, Use Bread, white as it dissolves better, in the
pipe to block the water. They also make dissolving ball, kinda like the
bath scent balls.


Believe it or not sometimes bread residue will clog a fixture. Sometimes I
use a shop vac to suck water out or a compressor blow back threw the system
and then they do make gelatin plugs to jamb up the pipe. Yes I have used
bread more than once.




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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

I soldered water pipes for the first time last weekend. I thought it
was easy enough to do, but I have had lots of experience with
electrical soldering so that helped. I didn't even bother practicing
first. The hardest part was that afer I adjusted the flame I had to
deal with gusts of wind coming in through a crawl space and changing
the size of my flame on me. I can say that if you have a lot of
patience and prep everything properly, use enough flux, and heat up
the pipes enough, then it should work. I had some vertical pipes with
water in them that I drained by sticking a straw in them and sucking
out the water as far as I could and that was enough to make it easy to
solder.

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"Nick Hull" wrote in message news:nhull-
I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get
it apart again if it leaks.

I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will

come
apart.


Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place?


I'd guess less, I had to take apart some epoxied aluminum fittings on a
boat and heat softened the epoxy easily. Usually about 300 deg F does
it.


I'm sure you are correct.

Bob


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On Mar 4, 9:05 pm, "PE" wrote:
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as
solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in
tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is
difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding
whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable
substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your
replies!!


There is a fundamental problem with conventional epoxy cements for
metals, namely, a huge difference in coefficient of thermal expansion.
By using copper powder as a filler. the situation is somewhat
improved, but such a bond in a hot water system would be subjected to
hundreds of cooling-heating cycles each of which will stress the
joint. It therefore makes sense to use adhesives where they can be
monitored and where an inadvertant leak will not cause a
major ,problem. Also, the integrity of the bond is even more dependent
on clean surfaces than soldering. As always, let the process and the
materials be dictated by the needed results. HTH

Joe

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wrote in message
...
I believe I could teach a monkey to do it
in a day, and a twentysomething lip
pierced moron in two days.


Steve!? 2 days for the moron? Optimistic!

Dave S(Texas)


Geez, am I getting old or what?

I see people today who are twenty years old and:

they can't make change for a $20 without a cash register......

they don't know the difference between your and you're .......

like, kewl, and dude are their vocabulary .............

they want $20 an hour for menial work .............

they have a devil tattooed on their forehead and a laundry sized safety pin
though their nose and wonder why they can't get hired even as a waiter
.............

need I go on?

Steve


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

There are times when soldering a joint can be very tough like in a
hole in the ground which is the lowest point in your plumbing. I like
the bread idea and have never heard it before. I pony up the cash for
a compression fitting when soldering is to difficult.



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replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote:
After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided
ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This
repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been
told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in
common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT
WORK!

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm


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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:44:02 GMT, Babydollbolt
m wrote:

replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote:
After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided
ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This
repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been
told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in
common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT
WORK!


It depends what you're trying to do, but since you're a web poster, of
course you don't provide any context.

IIRC, I used it once and it worked for me.
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Default Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:44:02 GMT, Babydollbolt
m wrote:

replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote:
After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided
ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This
repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been
told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in
common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT
WORK!

I did not have as good results with "just for copper" as you did. My
solder joints USUALLY work.
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replying to Steve B, Rkay wrote:
Stainless steel clamp tightened over the Epoxy (J B Weld) on copper pipe
should provide pressure and strength and make the fix last much longer. PVC
or CPVC are joined that way in water line systems for housing.
Water pressure at homes is about 50-100 PSI..

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On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-4, Rkay wrote:
replying to Steve B, Rkay wrote:
Stainless steel clamp tightened over the Epoxy (J B Weld) on copper pipe
should provide pressure and strength and make the fix last much longer.


Where is the evidence that a clamp over a copper pipe makes the
fix last much longer? Silly me, I just solder copper pipes and
then they generally last the lifetime of the pipe system. If I had
to use that new epoxy stuff in a pinch, I would, but then I'd just follow
the directions.



PVC
or CPVC are joined that way in water line systems for housing.


Reallly? They are glued with epoxy and then they put a stainless clamp
over it? Show us some examples. Silly me, I've been using PVC or
CPVC cement all these years.





Water pressure at homes is about 50-100 PSI..


Should be closer to 50, and over ~75 I'd get a pressure reducer.


And thanks for reviving another 10 year old thread.

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On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 1:33:09 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
So because you do it one way no one else does it another way??




Did you even once post something that was actually about AHR here?
I mean even the other trolls occasionally post *something* about
an actual home repair topic. But you never do. It's all just insults
and trolling. Are you forbidden by your Russian masters?
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replying to Tony Hwang, Felix Burotto wrote:
I used Copper Bond, probably 30 years ago.
First, I requested info from the manufacturer. I remember they were able to
"solder" up to 12" in diameter pipes. Second. Once attached, not even fire
was able to disconnect them. I tested it myself. Third: by mistake, the City
allowed me to retrofit my home w/ copper pipes. They never failed. The issue
is the City permit, not the product.
Third




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Felix Burotto posted for all of us...



replying to Tony Hwang, Felix Burotto wrote:
I used Copper Bond, probably 30 years ago.
First, I requested info from the manufacturer. I remember they were able to
"solder" up to 12" in diameter pipes. Second. Once attached, not even fire
was able to disconnect them. I tested it myself. Third: by mistake, the City
allowed me to retrofit my home w/ copper pipes. They never failed. The issue
is the City permit, not the product.
Third




--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm


Tony has not been around here for about ten years now.

--
Tekkie
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