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#1
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding
expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! |
#2
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope that the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years. |
#3
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater. The only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time. |
#4
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope that the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years. Hi, Ditto but maybe after it is proven over time? |
#5
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message news:MSMGh.1222124$5R2.293293@pd7urf3no... Edwin Pawlowski wrote: "PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! I've never had a solder joint fail. I'm not going to change and hope that the epoxy will still be there in five or ten years. Hi, Ditto but maybe after it is proven over time? I hate the words "should" and "maybe." When one considers that usually once you solder a joint, you cover it up with other stuff, and if there's a problem, there's a major problem ripping it out and doing it again, plus the water damage, why would anyone even consider doing it any other way but solder? Yes, soldering is dangerous. But they make all sorts of shields and blankets, and lots of times, the joints are out where there is very little danger. Some pieces can be made in trees, and never come in contact with anything dangerous or flammable. Soldering isn't rocket surgery. I believe I could teach a monkey to do it in a day, and a twentysomething lip pierced moron in two days. Get a clean joint, use flux, don't overheat, learn how to flow solder, and bingo. I have repaired some amazing things with JB Weld and other epoxies. But, when you consider thermal expansion, water hammer, rollercoaster temperatures, and other things, I'll stick with solder, even if epoxy is proven to be adequate for copper pipe. You can still get your mix wrong with epoxies, have surface contaminants, incorrect cleaning, and other things that will cause ultimate failure. And when there is a failure, you will be ripping and tearing, repairing sodden materials, and most probably be dealing with mold down the line. IIRC, years ago, they came up with this new water piping system that used crimps and swages that was going to revolutionize the water pipe systems in housing. All it turned into was ruined houses and class action suits. If you can't at least solder, or learn how to do so in a day, you shouldn't be messing with copper. It's that important. Just my two pennies. Steve |
#6
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On getting the water out, Use Bread, white as it dissolves better, in the
pipe to block the water. They also make dissolving ball, kinda like the bath scent balls. Scott- "Sacramento Dave" wrote in message t... "PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater. The only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time. |
#7
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"PE" wrote in message ... Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! I used it once several years ago. The joints are still leak free. That doesn't prove anything, but is encouraging. However, I went to use it last year and it had gone bad. Way too expensive for two joints! |
#8
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get it apart again if it leaks. You can always put some sheet metal and a wet rag, if it will fit, between the joint and any flammable material. You can get a baking pan at Goodwill for a quarter and cut it to fit. There's really nothing wrong with scorching the snot out of surrounding wood, sometimes it can't be avoided. Bust into your shower connection and you'll likely find burnt wood. It ain't no biggie. Just be careful. ----- - gpsman |
#9
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"gpsman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get it apart again if it leaks. I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come apart. Bob |
#10
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:20:52 -0800, "Sacramento Dave"
wrote: Someone just told me it works great if you can't get all the water out of the line to solider. I know they make some epoxies that dry underwater. The only thing is this is all new stuff so it hasn't had the test of time. They might even have tested it for a few years in some small to middle-sized application, in Denver or Mongolia, but I would like 100 year test. How long has soldered copper been used? There are probably plenty of pipes around from the first decade of its use. I don't think the rest of my house will last as long, but I think the solder joints will last 200 years. |
#11
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Mar 5, 1:15 am, "Bob F" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get it apart again if it leaks. I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come apart. Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place? ----- - gpsman |
#12
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
Actually, Gerry, I'm both stupid AND lazy but, even so, I've managed to
become reasonably adept with flux, solder and torch. However I don't enjoy doing it in confined spaces and was just wondering if there might be an alternative that's worthy of consideration, although the consensus seems to be to the contrary. Thanks for your insightful observations; they were greatly appreciated, as was the glowing compliment! "Gerry Atrick" wrote in message ... On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:05:11 -0800, "PE" wrote: Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! Another product made for incoherent people who are too stupid or lazy to solder the pipes together. Besides possibly being a product that will fail after a few years, I wonder how many hours or days one has to wait for the stuff to dry? Solder hardens in seconds, and has been used forever. I'll stick to solder. (There are no places where pipes can not be soldered, they make asbestos pads to prevent burning wood, and a little water sprayed on charred wood always helps). OK, now go ahead and post lots of flames about using asbestos pads, and how dangerous asbestos is........ |
#13
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
In article .com,
"gpsman" wrote: On Mar 5, 1:15 am, "Bob F" wrote: "gpsman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 4, 10:05 pm, "PE" wrote: brevity snip Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get it apart again if it leaks. I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come apart. Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place? I'd guess less, I had to take apart some epoxied aluminum fittings on a boat and heat softened the epoxy easily. Usually about 300 deg F does it. Committees of Correspondence Web page:- tinyurl.com/y7th2c |
#14
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
I believe I could teach a monkey to do it
in a day, and a twentysomething lip pierced moron in two days. Steve!? 2 days for the moron? Optimistic! Dave S(Texas) |
#15
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"Scott Townsend" wrote in message ... On getting the water out, Use Bread, white as it dissolves better, in the pipe to block the water. They also make dissolving ball, kinda like the bath scent balls. Believe it or not sometimes bread residue will clog a fixture. Sometimes I use a shop vac to suck water out or a compressor blow back threw the system and then they do make gelatin plugs to jamb up the pipe. Yes I have used bread more than once. |
#16
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
I soldered water pipes for the first time last weekend. I thought it
was easy enough to do, but I have had lots of experience with electrical soldering so that helped. I didn't even bother practicing first. The hardest part was that afer I adjusted the flame I had to deal with gusts of wind coming in through a crawl space and changing the size of my flame on me. I can say that if you have a lot of patience and prep everything properly, use enough flux, and heat up the pipes enough, then it should work. I had some vertical pipes with water in them that I drained by sticking a straw in them and sucking out the water as far as I could and that was enough to make it easy to solder. |
#17
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
"Nick Hull" wrote in message news:nhull- I'd think so, without any personal experience. But you'll never get it apart again if it leaks. I can just about guarantee that if you heat it with a torch, it will come apart. Will it take more or less heat than sweating it in the first place? I'd guess less, I had to take apart some epoxied aluminum fittings on a boat and heat softened the epoxy easily. Usually about 300 deg F does it. I'm sure you are correct. Bob |
#18
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Mar 4, 9:05 pm, "PE" wrote:
Hi all: I recently noticed that Home Depot is selling a copper bonding expoxy product in the plumbing dept. that's billed as being as good as solder. Seems like it might be a useful alternative to use on joints in tight, enclosed areas where heating the parts with an open flame is difficult/dangerous. Would appreciate any informed opinions regarding whether or not the product referenced above might be an acceptable substitute for solder in the circumstances mentioned. Thanks for your replies!! There is a fundamental problem with conventional epoxy cements for metals, namely, a huge difference in coefficient of thermal expansion. By using copper powder as a filler. the situation is somewhat improved, but such a bond in a hot water system would be subjected to hundreds of cooling-heating cycles each of which will stress the joint. It therefore makes sense to use adhesives where they can be monitored and where an inadvertant leak will not cause a major ,problem. Also, the integrity of the bond is even more dependent on clean surfaces than soldering. As always, let the process and the materials be dictated by the needed results. HTH Joe |
#19
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
wrote in message ... I believe I could teach a monkey to do it in a day, and a twentysomething lip pierced moron in two days. Steve!? 2 days for the moron? Optimistic! Dave S(Texas) Geez, am I getting old or what? I see people today who are twenty years old and: they can't make change for a $20 without a cash register...... they don't know the difference between your and you're ....... like, kewl, and dude are their vocabulary ............. they want $20 an hour for menial work ............. they have a devil tattooed on their forehead and a laundry sized safety pin though their nose and wonder why they can't get hired even as a waiter ............. need I go on? Steve |
#20
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
There are times when soldering a joint can be very tough like in a
hole in the ground which is the lowest point in your plumbing. I like the bread idea and have never heard it before. I pony up the cash for a compression fitting when soldering is to difficult. |
#21
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote:
After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT WORK! -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm |
#22
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:44:02 GMT, Babydollbolt
m wrote: replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote: After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT WORK! It depends what you're trying to do, but since you're a web poster, of course you don't provide any context. IIRC, I used it once and it worked for me. |
#23
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:44:02 GMT, Babydollbolt
m wrote: replying to PE, Babydollbolt wrote: After going thru 30 loaves of all kinds of bread, without success, I decided ti try Just for Copper. More then ten years later still no leaks! This repair involved multiple joints, including shut off valves.. I have been told by numerous people about the bread trick, but they all have one thing in common-none of them have ever tried it themselves. THE BREAD TRICK DOES NOT WORK! I did not have as good results with "just for copper" as you did. My solder joints USUALLY work. |
#24
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
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#25
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
replying to Steve B, Rkay wrote:
Stainless steel clamp tightened over the Epoxy (J B Weld) on copper pipe should provide pressure and strength and make the fix last much longer. PVC or CPVC are joined that way in water line systems for housing. Water pressure at homes is about 50-100 PSI.. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm |
#26
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-4, Rkay wrote:
replying to Steve B, Rkay wrote: Stainless steel clamp tightened over the Epoxy (J B Weld) on copper pipe should provide pressure and strength and make the fix last much longer. Where is the evidence that a clamp over a copper pipe makes the fix last much longer? Silly me, I just solder copper pipes and then they generally last the lifetime of the pipe system. If I had to use that new epoxy stuff in a pinch, I would, but then I'd just follow the directions. PVC or CPVC are joined that way in water line systems for housing. Reallly? They are glued with epoxy and then they put a stainless clamp over it? Show us some examples. Silly me, I've been using PVC or CPVC cement all these years. Water pressure at homes is about 50-100 PSI.. Should be closer to 50, and over ~75 I'd get a pressure reducer. And thanks for reviving another 10 year old thread. |
#27
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 1:33:09 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
So because you do it one way no one else does it another way?? Did you even once post something that was actually about AHR here? I mean even the other trolls occasionally post *something* about an actual home repair topic. But you never do. It's all just insults and trolling. Are you forbidden by your Russian masters? |
#28
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
replying to Tony Hwang, Felix Burotto wrote:
I used Copper Bond, probably 30 years ago. First, I requested info from the manufacturer. I remember they were able to "solder" up to 12" in diameter pipes. Second. Once attached, not even fire was able to disconnect them. I tested it myself. Third: by mistake, the City allowed me to retrofit my home w/ copper pipes. They never failed. The issue is the City permit, not the product. Third -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm |
#29
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Solder vs. epoxy for copper pipes?
Felix Burotto posted for all of us...
replying to Tony Hwang, Felix Burotto wrote: I used Copper Bond, probably 30 years ago. First, I requested info from the manufacturer. I remember they were able to "solder" up to 12" in diameter pipes. Second. Once attached, not even fire was able to disconnect them. I tested it myself. Third: by mistake, the City allowed me to retrofit my home w/ copper pipes. They never failed. The issue is the City permit, not the product. Third -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-200475-.htm Tony has not been around here for about ten years now. -- Tekkie |
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