My 17-year-old Carrier furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. I have
received three different quotes that I would like advice on please.

My house:
built in 1989, under 1700 sq. ft., rancher on slab, vaulted ceiling in
great room with two skylights, three bedrooms, 75,000 btu gas furnace
in attic

quotes:
- Amana AMS8 70,000 btu 80%, warranty 20, 5, 2 $3349 (the guy who came
on the service call)
- Lennox G40 70,000 btu 80%, replacement 2.5 ton evaporator coil, same
warranty, $3300
- York Choice or Trane XB, 20,5,1 warranty, $2400 or with replacement 3
ton coil $3500

I plan on being in this house another 1-2 years.

On Feb 16, 1:34�pm, "badgolferman"
wrote:
My 17-year-old Carrier furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. *I have
received three different quotes that I would like advice on please.

My house:
built in 1989, under 1700 sq. ft., rancher on slab, vaulted ceiling in
great room with two skylights, three bedrooms, 75,000 btu gas furnace
in attic

quotes:
- Amana AMS8 70,000 btu 80%, warranty 20, 5, 2 *$3349 (the guy who came
on the service call)
- Lennox G40 70,000 btu 80%, replacement 2.5 ton evaporator coil, same
warranty, $3300
- York Choice or Trane XB, 20,5,1 warranty, $2400 or with replacement 3
ton coil $3500

I plan on being in this house another 1-2 years.

The cost difference between a 80 + and a 90+ furnace will reward you
at resale since energy costs ALWAYS go up.

Are you CERTAIN the heat exchanger is cracked? This is a typical scam
statement by some HVAC companies

On 16 Feb 2007 15:00:43 -0800, "
wrote:

Are you CERTAIN the heat exchanger is cracked? This is a typical scam
statement by some HVAC companies


My suspicions too. Get your gas compaqny to make a free safety
inspection. A 17 yeaqr old gas furnace should be in pretty good
shape.

Not a 17 year old Carrier Furnace in an attic. If you google life
expectancy of a gas furnace it is about 18 years.

It couldn't hurt to get a second opinion. Did the tech show you how he
proved a cracked heat exchanger.

According to MSN.com, Consumer Reports, and some realestate report state
that investment in your heating system should give you a 95-100% payback on
your investment.

--
Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz





"PaPaPeng" wrote in message
...
On 16 Feb 2007 15:00:43 -0800, "
wrote:

Are you CERTAIN the heat exchanger is cracked? This is a typical scam
statement by some HVAC companies


My suspicions too. Get your gas compaqny to make a free safety
inspection. A 17 yeaqr old gas furnace should be in pretty good
shape.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 16, 1:34?pm, "badgolferman"
wrote:
My 17-year-old Carrier furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. I have
received three different quotes that I would like advice on please.

My house:
built in 1989, under 1700 sq. ft., rancher on slab, vaulted ceiling in
great room with two skylights, three bedrooms, 75,000 btu gas furnace
in attic

quotes:
- Amana AMS8 70,000 btu 80%, warranty 20, 5, 2 $3349 (the guy who came
on the service call)
- Lennox G40 70,000 btu 80%, replacement 2.5 ton evaporator coil, same
warranty, $3300
- York Choice or Trane XB, 20,5,1 warranty, $2400 or with replacement 3
ton coil $3500

I plan on being in this house another 1-2 years.

The cost difference between a 80 + and a 90+ furnace will reward you
at resale since energy costs ALWAYS go up.

Are you CERTAIN the heat exchanger is cracked? This is a typical scam
statement by some HVAC companies

And you know this How? It's idiots like you that we read about in the news,
because they didn't have their furnace checked.

, 2/16/2007,6:00:43 PM, wrote:

On Feb 16, 1:34�pm, "badgolferman"
wrote:
My 17-year-old Carrier furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. I have
received three different quotes that I would like advice on please.

My house:
built in 1989, under 1700 sq. ft., rancher on slab, vaulted ceiling
in great room with two skylights, three bedrooms, 75,000 btu gas
furnace in attic

quotes:
- Amana AMS8 70,000 btu 80%, warranty 20, 5, 2 $3349 (the guy who
came on the service call)
- Lennox G40 70,000 btu 80%, replacement 2.5 ton evaporator coil,
same warranty, $3300
- York Choice or Trane XB, 20,5,1 warranty, $2400 or with
replacement 3 ton coil $3500

I plan on being in this house another 1-2 years.

The cost difference between a 80 + and a 90+ furnace will reward you
at resale since energy costs ALWAYS go up.

Are you CERTAIN the heat exchanger is cracked? This is a typical scam
statement by some HVAC companies

He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"
wrote:

He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.


If you can see a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1).

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. Natural gas has a max temp of 2148°C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.

On Feb 17, 6:41�am, PaPaPeng wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"

wrote:
He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. *The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

If you can see *a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. *If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1). *

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. *He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse *to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. *My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. *Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. *The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. *Natural gas has a max temp of 2148°C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. * If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. *At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.

The OP is no doubt concerned if the gas company inspects and finds it
bad they will shut off his heat. yet if its really as bad as he says,
he should be very ill or dead.

the OP should rush out today and buy a carbon monoxide detector with a
digital readout. 50 bucks!

If its zero or real low after a few days call the gas company and
confirm the furnace is fine. DONT hsave to worry about a red tag, it
just confirms what you will ALREADY KNOW!

Then get even!

Call the comany the dealer sells carrier etc and complain, call the
BBB and media!

THAT CONTRACTOR IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, do all the people of your town
a favor and literally put him out of business!

If there is a hole or crack in the heat exchanger, anyone servicing the
unit has an obligation to turn the gas off, red tag it, and document it
with the owner's signature on it. If that is not done, and later when
there is a fire or CO problem, guess who will be held responsible.
Does the Amana estimate include the evaporator coil? If not, it is
nearly $1000 more that the Trane. Amana IMO makes a good furnace, but
it is really pretty much a Goodman. Assuming the same quality of
instalation, I would expect it to be somewhat less than a Trane, not $1k
more. Whether to go with 80% or 90% all depends on where you are
located. I am in S.Tx and there are probably not a dozen 90's here. Up
north, a 90 would be the only thing to conside.
As always. the installation is the most important part of the equation.
Make sure the installer pulls a permit and gets all the proper
inspections done. This is important in any situation, but with you
planning on selling the house relatively soon, it will almost certainly
bite you in the butt if you don't. Larry

On Feb 17, 6:41 am, PaPaPeng wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"

wrote:
He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

If you can see a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now.

Not true. Does a gas range going full blast in the kitchen, where
100% of the byproducts are goimg into the air, make you sick? A
furnace with a hole in the heat exchanger won't always, or even
usually result in sufficient CO to cause symptoms. It's still
dangerous though, because if the furnace is not producing complete
combustion for some reason, then it can kill you.




If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1).

That's not a reliable indicator either, or else people wouldn't die
from furnaces or water heaters with blocked chimneys.



The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence.

Professional negligence? The contractor did tell him to replace it,
he's got 3 quotes, and he's in the process of doing it.




He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace.

Geez, who's refusing to act? Is the homeowner just supposed to say
OK on the spot, all I need is for the tech to say its bad and tell me
your price? Now, let me bend over so you can do the job right this
minute?






My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.


The technician isn't signing off on the furnace being OK. Quite the
opposite, he told him it has a failed heat exchanger and needs to be
replaced.



Skip the lawer part of it. Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. Natural gas has a max temp of 2148°C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"


And what does that have to do with his current problem?



(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

The mercaptan is added so as to be able to detect a gas leak, not CO
from a cracked heat exchanger.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.


Notice the part about CO forming under conditions of restricted O2
supply?

On Feb 17, 9:33 am, " wrote:
On Feb 17, 6:41?am, PaPaPeng wrote:





On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"

wrote:
He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. ?The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

If you can see ?a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. ?If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1). ?

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. ?He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse ?to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. ?My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. ?Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. ?The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. ?Natural gas has a max temp of 2148?C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. ? If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. ?At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.

The OP is no doubt concerned if the gas company inspects and finds it
bad they will shut off his heat. yet if its really as bad as he says,
he should be very ill or dead.

the OP should rush out today and buy a carbon monoxide detector with a
digital readout. 50 bucks!

If its zero or real low after a few days call the gas company and
confirm the furnace is fine. DONT hsave to worry about a red tag, it
just confirms what you will ALREADY KNOW!

Then get even!

Call the comany the dealer sells carrier etc and complain, call the
BBB and media!

THAT CONTRACTOR IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, do all the people of your town
a favor and literally put him out of business!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The guy said the tech showed him the hole with a light shining through
it. He has gotten 3 quotes for replacement. I don't see why
everyone here wants to jump to the conclusion that all service people
are rip off artists and liars. The guy has 3 quotes already. And I
wouldn't assume the gas company is so pure either. My gas company
also does servicing, sells equipment and offers service contracts.
So in many cases they have the same profit motive as your local
heating/cooling guy. But they do have one advantage. When they
inspect it, they will shut it off and red tag it and force a crisis
right then and there.

On Feb 17, 10:24�am, wrote:
On Feb 17, 9:33 am, " wrote:





On Feb 17, 6:41?am, PaPaPeng wrote:

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"

wrote:
He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. ?The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

If you can see ?a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. ?If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1). ?

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. ?He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse ?to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. ?My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. ?Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. ?The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. ?Natural gas has a max temp of 2148?C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. ? If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. ?At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.

The OP is no doubt concerned if the gas company inspects and finds it
bad they will shut off his heat. yet if its really as bad as he says,
he should be very ill or dead.

the OP should rush out today and buy a carbon monoxide detector with a
digital readout. 50 bucks!

If its zero or real low after a few days call the gas company and
confirm the furnace is fine. DONT hsave to worry about a red tag, it
just confirms what you will ALREADY KNOW!

Then get even!

Call the comany the dealer sells carrier etc and complain, call the
BBB and media!

THAT CONTRACTOR IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, do all the people of your town
a favor and literally put him out of business!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The guy said the tech showed him the hole with a light shining through
it. *He has gotten 3 quotes for replacement. * * I don't see why
everyone here wants to jump to the conclusion that all service people
are rip off artists and liars. * The guy has 3 quotes already. * And I
wouldn't assume the gas company is so pure either. * My gas company
also does servicing, sells equipment and offers service contracts.
So in many cases they have the same profit motive as your local
heating/cooling guy. * But they do have one advantage. * When they
inspect it, they will shut it off and red tag it and force a crisis
right then and there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Contractor rip offs are sadly pretty common

My advice check with detector FIRST then have gas company inspect if
it doesnt generate monoxide. cost little can save thousands for 50
bucks and a detector is a good thing to own, even a brand nbew furnace
can malfunction........

Incdenly stoves etc DO, but since there a much lower BTU its not
enough to be dangerous in most situations.

badgolferman, 2/16/2007,1:34:08 PM, wrote:

My 17-year-old Carrier furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. I have
received three different quotes that I would like advice on please.

My house:
built in 1989, under 1700 sq. ft., rancher on slab, vaulted ceiling in
great room with two skylights, three bedrooms, 75,000 btu gas furnace
in attic

quotes:
- Amana AMS8 70,000 btu 80%, warranty 20, 5, 2 $3349 (the guy who
came on the service call)
- Lennox G40 70,000 btu 80%, replacement 2.5 ton evaporator coil, same
warranty, $3300
- York Choice or Trane XB, 20,5,1 warranty, $2400 or with replacement
3 ton coil $3500

I plan on being in this house another 1-2 years.

The gas company came this morning and confirmed the problem. He walked
in with his detector and it was beeping. He went to the furnace and
took some readings up there and the detector he used for that has an
LCD display that read 5. He also turned off the emergency switch and
said not to turn it back on. I showed him my quotes and he was
satisfied that I was acting to correct the problem. He told me to get
out my space heaters and use them.

I called one of the contractors and they are coming by today with extra
space heaters and to take measurements. This contractor is reputable,
has been around our area for a long time and has been recommended to me
by co-workers in the past. I have no reason to doubt my furnace is bad
now, it's just more an issue of getting my family comfortable soon.

clipped


He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

I have friends, still alive, who had furnace with cracked heat
exchanger. Kids had had headaches, house plants died, adults no
problem. We went to visit, with our children. On entering the house,
my eyes began to burn badly. Nobody else from my family with any
symptoms. We discussed my burning eyes a great deal, trying to figure
out what was going on .. mold, dust, etc. I mentioned it to the
maintenance supv. at work the next day and he knew immediately that the
problem was a cracked heat exchanger. Not having a clue what that was,
I called my pal and told her. She had the gas co. check, and was
ordered out of the house immediately because CO was sky high.

I wouldn't fool around with prices if the situation is really a cracked
heat exchanger, which is deadly.

I'd have to say, whoever this contractor is, that's probably the
furnace I'd buy. I've been getting estimates for about a year now,
and asking advice everywhere I can regarding brands, etc., and the
most consistent advice I've received is to choose the replacement
based on the contractor. The consensus seems to be that getting it
installed right and having solid servicing available for if/when there
is a problem should be the deciding factors.

By the way, cracked heat exchanger does not necessarily = leaking CO.
It is possible for there to be a crack that is not split apart, i.e.,
problem waiting to happen, but not a problem currently. I've even had
one of the inspectors/estimators tell me it's not unusual to see that
in relatively new units. Yes, I'm using detectors throughout the
house, yes they are the kind that display the history and aren't
battery-dependent, and yes, each and every one of them reads zero all
the time.

Jo Ann

On Feb 17, 9:46 am, "badgolferman"
wrote:
badgolferman, 2/16/2007,1:34:08 PM, wrote:

The gas company came this morning and confirmed the problem. He walked
in with his detector and it was beeping. He went to the furnace and
took some readings up there and the detector he used for that has an
LCD display that read 5. He also turned off the emergency switch and
said not to turn it back on. I showed him my quotes and he was
satisfied that I was acting to correct the problem. He told me to get
out my space heaters and use them.

I called one of the contractors and they are coming by today with extra
space heaters and to take measurements. This contractor is reputable,
has been around our area for a long time and has been recommended to me
by co-workers in the past. I have no reason to doubt my furnace is bad
now, it's just more an issue of getting my family comfortable soon.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Feb 17, 10:33 am, " wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:24?am, wrote:





On Feb 17, 9:33 am, " wrote:

On Feb 17, 6:41?am, PaPaPeng wrote:

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"

wrote:
He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. ?The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.

If you can see ?a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. ?If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1). ?

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. ?He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse ?to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. ?My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. ?Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. ?The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. ?Natural gas has a max temp of 2148?C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. ? If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. ?At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.

The OP is no doubt concerned if the gas company inspects and finds it
bad they will shut off his heat. yet if its really as bad as he says,
he should be very ill or dead.

the OP should rush out today and buy a carbon monoxide detector with a
digital readout. 50 bucks!

If its zero or real low after a few days call the gas company and
confirm the furnace is fine. DONT hsave to worry about a red tag, it
just confirms what you will ALREADY KNOW!

Then get even!

Call the comany the dealer sells carrier etc and complain, call the
BBB and media!

THAT CONTRACTOR IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, do all the people of your town
a favor and literally put him out of business!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The guy said the tech showed him the hole with a light shining through
it. ?He has gotten 3 quotes for replacement. ? ? I don't see why
everyone here wants to jump to the conclusion that all service people
are rip off artists and liars. ? The guy has 3 quotes already. ? And I
wouldn't assume the gas company is so pure either. ? My gas company
also does servicing, sells equipment and offers service contracts.
So in many cases they have the same profit motive as your local
heating/cooling guy. ? But they do have one advantage. ? When they
inspect it, they will shut it off and red tag it and force a crisis
right then and there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Contractor rip offs are sadly pretty common

My advice check with detector FIRST then have gas company inspect if
it doesnt generate monoxide. cost little can save thousands for 50
bucks and a detector is a good thing to own, even a brand nbew furnace
can malfunction........

Incdenly stoves etc DO, but since there a much lower BTU its not
enough to be dangerous in most situations.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The key to whether you get CO is most directly related to whether the
appliance is burning correctly or not. It's true that a correctly
burning furnace is still going to put out more CO than a kitchen oven
and range, but that isn't how people usually get killed. They get
killed because the device is not burning correctly, which results in
CO production increasing by a couple orders of magnitude, which is far
more than the diff in normal CO level from kitchen appliances as
compared to a furnace. Surely you've seen portable high BTU kerosene
or gas heaters used to heat buildings during construction, etc. They
don't kill anyone, if used correctly.

See response below.

"PaPaPeng" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:28:23 -0500, "badgolferman"
wrote:

He shined a light into the the right side heating chamber and I could
see a hole and light through it in the seam at the end of it and plenty
of rust covering up the burner. The other two chambers were good.
Another guy told me a few years ago it was on the edge and wouldn't
last much longer.


If you can see a hole in the heat exchanger large enough for light to
shine through you should be having constant nausea, vomitting and
maybe even a death in the family from carbon monoxide poisoning by
now. If your sense of smell is normal you should be able to smell
burnt gases whenever your furnace fires up (1).

The same assessment of cracked tubes from three contractors and not
having at least one insisiting that you have it fixed immediately is
professional negligence. He likely has a professional obligation to
inform the gas company if you refuse to act on a potentially fatal
problem with your furnace. My argument is based on the fact that if a
civil engineer (a brother in law) is asked to sign off on a structure
that in his professional opinion is incorrectly designed and will
collapse and kill someone he has to refuse that commission and report
that to his professional body.

Skip the lawer part of it. Get that gas company to make that free
inspection. The gas company really does have a stake in your safety
and will never lie to you.

That said the heat exchanger is like a radiator that has spaces (aka
holes) in between the tubes so that the burnt gasses can pass through
them to the stack. Natural gas has a max temp of 2148°C which is why
the fan has to be on first to keep the tubes within operating
temperatures. If the thermocouple interlock senses overheating it
will shut down the burners. At that temperature plain cast iron is
the best material as any alloy or alloy coating will be burnt off.
Constantly heated cast iron looks rough and "rusty"

(1) Excerpts from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
In any form, a minute amount of odorant such as t-butyl mercaptan,
with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, is added to the otherwise colorless
and odorless gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or
explosion occurs. Sometimes a related compound, thiophane is used,
with a rotten-egg smell. Adding odorant to natural gas began in the
United States after the 1937 New London School explosion. The buildup
of gas in the school went unnoticed, killing three hundred students
and faculty when it ignited. Odorants are considered non-toxic in the
extremely low concentrations occurring in natural gas delivered to the
end user..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon
monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of
organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which
prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is
colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it
difficult for people to detect.

Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the
most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries. Symptoms of
mild poisoning include headaches and flu-like effects, larger
exposures can lead to significant toxicity on the central nervous
system and the heart. Following poisoning often long term sequelae
occurs. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of
pregnant woman.

The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not
yet fully understood but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial
cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely
consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
although the optimum treatment remains controversial. Domestic carbon
monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon
monoxide detectors.
--

Mr PAPAPENG,

If a technician can shine a light into a heatexchanger and you can see light
through teh other side, the heatexchanger is breached. According to most
reputable gas furnace associations this furnace should be replaced. The
heatexchanger should be a continuous seal from the breach to the exhaust.
You citing the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning and the odorant added to
NG are irrelevant for this matter and quite dangerous to insist that a
breached heat exchanger be ignored. The advice you are giving is actually
quite dangerous.

If there is a breach in the heat exchanger what makes you think it is
automatically going to produce enough CO in to the home. How do you know
the furnace is even producing that much CO. If you wait for a normal CO
detector to go off it is usually to late anyway, unless you invest the money
in a low level CO detector. On that Carrier unit the problem that usually
occurs is rollout rather than air stream breaches.

The odorant from the NG would only be evident if there is a gas leak, the
effects you are describing from CO poisoning will occur when you are close
to death. The only smells you may realize from the improper combustion and
leakage into the home is slight aldehyde odor.

If I saw a hole in that heatexchanger like that the furnace would be
redtagged. How much experience do you have with cracke dor holes in a
heatexchanger, how many have you seen, how many have you diagnosed, how many
have you let go and convinced a homeowner to ignore. You are dangerous and
have no right advising on the subject, especially with the Wikepedia
mumbojumbo you are quoting, it is irrelevento this gentlemans dillema.

By the way I am a HVAC contractor, I rarely find heat exchangers in this
condition, because it is not usually let gone this long. This gentleman had
a contractor warn him of this beginning to happen, and another found it to
be true the following year. Do you realize the effects of installing a gas
furance in an unconditioned attic.

I have no finanacial gain or loss on this person so my post is purely
proffesional.

Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz

Contractor rip offs are sadly pretty common

My advice check with detector FIRST then have gas company inspect if
it doesnt generate monoxide. cost little can save thousands for 50
bucks and a detector is a good thing to own, even a brand nbew furnace
can malfunction........

Incdenly stoves etc DO, but since there a much lower BTU its not
enough to be dangerous in most situations.

***
Contractor rippoffs are very rare actually, unfortunately they make better
news than good contractors. If you deal with a good contractor with high
credentials, a satisfactory rating with the BBB, recommended by
manufacturers as tops in there area, you usually can't go wrong. Don't go
by the big ads in the YP.

Since you are stating that Contractors rip offs are common, what percentage
of contractors work are ripoffs. I am sure you are stating facts rather
than your own opinion. Again ther are alot more good honest contractors
than bad. The bad ones are the ones that most people complement on being
fair priced and the ones to deal with, rather than those overpriced ripoff
companies. Ther is a reason better companies cost more. Which I have
stated in an earlier post.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz

On Feb 17, 1:19�pm, "Bob Pietrangelo" wrote:
Contractor rip offs are sadly pretty common

My advice check with detector FIRST then have gas company inspect if
it doesnt generate monoxide. cost little can save thousands for 50
bucks and a detector is a good thing to own, even a brand nbew furnace
can malfunction........

Incdenly stoves etc DO, but since there a much lower BTU its not
enough to be dangerous in most situations.

***
Contractor rippoffs are very rare actually, unfortunately they make better
news than good contractors. *If you deal with a good contractor with high
credentials, a satisfactory rating with the BBB, recommended by
manufacturers as tops in there area, you usually can't go wrong. *Don't go
by the big ads in the YP.

Since you are stating that Contractors rip offs are common, what percentage
of contractors work are ripoffs. *I am sure you are stating facts rather
than your own opinion. *Again ther are alot more good honest contractors
than bad. *The bad ones are the ones that most people complement on being
fair priced and the ones to deal with, rather than those overpriced ripoff
companies. *Ther is a reason better companies cost more. *Which I have
stated in an earlier post.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)www.comfort-solution.biz

I have, and friends have been victims of sleezy contractors, I know
one myself they ffered a really good deal on a used furnace with air,
then explained they scared the previos owner into a complete 10 grand
install, making fantastic bucks. Were selling the left over furnace
for added profit.

I had gone to high school with this #@$%$ told him off! and never call
me again! He was proud of scamming
a elderly widow

within a year he got caught, last I heard he moved west, his business
died, he DESERVED IT!

I told him I though 60 minutes should feature him

Sadly I check 3 times when told stuff like this because of people like
him. A old ladys air quit working, the contractor claimed the
compressor bad, I happened to stop and found the air filter jammed
solid with cat hair, removed filter temp dropped immediately I went
and bought filter. But first called contractor cancelling install!
They were unhappy the new unit was loaded on their truck, they had
crew ready, threatened to bill a grand cancel fee.

I said GO AHEAD will call my newspaper friend, you will be featured
for ripping people off, AC fixed new filter installed!

Thew old lady was in heart failure and died within a couple months,
preying on the elderly is TERRIBLE.

I would have turned in that contractor but the poor sick lady was
afraid of being sued or worse...........

I have, and friends have been victims of sleezy contractors, I know
one myself they ffered a really good deal on a used furnace with air,
then explained they scared the previos owner into a complete 10 grand
install, making fantastic bucks. Were selling the left over furnace
for added profit.

I had gone to high school with this #@$%$ told him off! and never call
me again! He was proud of scamming
a elderly widow

within a year he got caught, last I heard he moved west, his business
died, he DESERVED IT!

I told him I though 60 minutes should feature him

Sadly I check 3 times when told stuff like this because of people like
him. A old ladys air quit working, the contractor claimed the
compressor bad, I happened to stop and found the air filter jammed
solid with cat hair, removed filter temp dropped immediately I went
and bought filter. But first called contractor cancelling install!
They were unhappy the new unit was loaded on their truck, they had
crew ready, threatened to bill a grand cancel fee.

I said GO AHEAD will call my newspaper friend, you will be featured
for ripping people off, AC fixed new filter installed!

Thew old lady was in heart failure and died within a couple months,
preying on the elderly is TERRIBLE.

I would have turned in that contractor but the poor sick lady was
afraid of being sued or worse...........
--

So what percentage of contracors is that compared to the # of contractors in
your phone book. I think you just mentioned 2 or 3. I could quote you
about 10 in my area that are just as bad.

That is about 5% of the ones in the area. Don't lump all of us in with the
bad, and that is what you are doing as are several sensationalist reporters.
Look for contractors that are the top rated with their manufacturers,
memebrs of ACCA, BBB, etc

Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:10:52 -0500, "Bob Pietrangelo"
wrote:

Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz


Bob. It you read my post properly I advised the OP of the dangers of
what an actual breach of the heat exchanger tubes (see the light
through the hole) should have caused by now-------illness and
possible death, not a light matter to ignore. His post says that he
was suspicious of the contractors thinking more of their revenue than
of his needs. My advice was to get the gas company to make an
unbaised and professional assessment if that breach is as reported. I
don't know the regulatory procedure in his neck of the woods but a gas
company representative (and any contractor) seeing such a breach would
have immediately red tagged that furnace and secured it from further
use. End of suspicions and end of argument. That hadn't happened with
the contractors who just advised that he get his furnace replaced. As
others have chimed in there are indeed a lot of contractor scams
around especially in the US. Just ask Hurricane Katrina survivors.

PaPaPeng, 2/17/2007,6:32:30 PM, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:10:52 -0500, "Bob Pietrangelo"
wrote:

I
don't know the regulatory procedure in his neck of the woods but a gas
company representative (and any contractor) seeing such a breach would
have immediately red tagged that furnace and secured it from further
use. End of suspicions and end of argument. That hadn't happened with
the contractors who just advised that he get his furnace replaced.

The original contractor told me he was supposed to red tag it and turn
off the gas. I told him not to do it since it was in the Twenties here
yesterday. He took a Poloroid picture of the furnace and turned off
the Emergency Switch on the wall. He told me he was doing that and it
was up to me what I wanted to do. I did see the hole in the exchanger,
it was large enough to slide a penny or nickel through it sideways and
was at the far end of the enclosure.

After having it inspected today by the gas people and being told even
more emphatically not to use it I turned it off and signed a contract
with the people who quoted me the Lennox furnace. I live in SE VA and
our winters are generally mild and not as long as the North.
Considering I don't plan on living here much longer the extra price of
the 90% efficiency furnace wasn't worth it to me. Besides I assume the
outside unit will be ready for a replacemnet soon also. Two summers
ago I had to take the fan apart and drip some oil down the shaft to
make it stop squeeling. So far it has been working fine but you never
know.

On Feb 17, 6:53 pm, "badgolferman"
wrote:
PaPaPeng, 2/17/2007,6:32:30 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:10:52 -0500, "Bob Pietrangelo"
wrote:

I
don't know the regulatory procedure in his neck of the woods but a gas
company representative (and any contractor) seeing such a breach would
have immediately red tagged that furnace and secured it from further
use. End of suspicions and end of argument. That hadn't happened with
the contractors who just advised that he get his furnace replaced.

The original contractor told me he was supposed to red tag it and turn
off the gas. I told him not to do it since it was in the Twenties here
yesterday. He took a Poloroid picture of the furnace and turned off
the Emergency Switch on the wall. He told me he was doing that and it
was up to me what I wanted to do. I did see the hole in the exchanger,
it was large enough to slide a penny or nickel through it sideways and
was at the far end of the enclosure.

After having it inspected today by the gas people and being told even
more emphatically not to use it I turned it off and signed a contract
with the people who quoted me the Lennox furnace. I live in SE VA and
our winters are generally mild and not as long as the North.
Considering I don't plan on living here much longer the extra price of
the 90% efficiency furnace wasn't worth it to me. Besides I assume the
outside unit will be ready for a replacemnet soon also. Two summers
ago I had to take the fan apart and drip some oil down the shaft to
make it stop squeeling. So far it has been working fine but you never
know.


If the compressor is past it's expected life, I'd strongly consider
replacing the whole thing at the same time. I would expect you'd get
a better deal and the unit is likely a low SEER, so you'll be saving
on electric as well. Plus, many utilities have rebates of several
hundred dollars, there are energy tax credits, etc that can sweeten
the deal by a few hundred bucks.