I read the post about a GB type detector with a transmitter and
receiver. But will it or something work with lower than 110 volts??

It's not 110v wires that I am confused by. I ran 4 pieces of
telephone line to my attic, one for the telephone**, one for a burglar
alarm sensor*** in the window frame, one for a smoke detector for the
burglar alarm, and one I don't even remember what for.

Now the phone jack doesn't work and I want to splice in a patch in the
attic instead of coming all the way from the basement again, but I
don't know which of the four. I didn't label them because I thought
they would never break. and there are a lot of empty boxes etc.
making it difficult to physcially trace the wires. I can probably
borrow the GB tool from a friend who installs burglar alarms. And I
think it would be fun to use. If I can use it??

**The previous owner had sheetrocked over the phone jack!

***I know now, I think, that I shouldn't have used phone line to
connect a sensor to a transistorized burglar alarm panel, but I had a
lot of it. I read here, I think, that there is some twist in 4-wire
phone line, but is it enough to keep currents induced by lightning
from burning out an alarm?? I was leaving the house one day when I
saw smoke coming from the keypad/control panel, and sure enough it
didn't work anymore. I don't remember any recent lightning at that
time, but did I make a big mistake by using phone line to connect to
remote sensors? Thanks.

Just use an ohmmeter. Unhook every wire at both ends. Strip & twist
two together. Go to the other end, and see which pair has continuity.
Continue until they're all identified. Pretty easy.

mm wrote:
I read the post about a GB type detector with a transmitter and
receiver. But will it or something work with lower than 110 volts??

It's not 110v wires that I am confused by. I ran 4 pieces of
telephone line to my attic, one for the telephone**, one for a burglar
alarm sensor*** in the window frame, one for a smoke detector for the
burglar alarm, and one I don't even remember what for.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:30:40 GMT, Robert Barr wrote:

Just use an ohmmeter. Unhook every wire at both ends. Strip & twist
two together. Go to the other end, and see which pair has continuity.
Continue until they're all identified. Pretty easy.

Thanks, not so easy in that I may have to cut into all 4 wires, but it
may be what I have to do.

(I wanted to splice into the middle of a wire, test on which side of
that point in the wire is the broken wire, and bypass the part that is
broken. )

mm wrote:
I read the post about a GB type detector with a transmitter and
receiver. But will it or something work with lower than 110 volts??

It's not 110v wires that I am confused by. I ran 4 pieces of
telephone line to my attic, one for the telephone**, one for a burglar
alarm sensor*** in the window frame, one for a smoke detector for the
burglar alarm, and one I don't even remember what for.

mm wrote:

I read the post about a GB type detector with a transmitter and
receiver. But will it or something work with lower than 110 volts??

It's not 110v wires that I am confused by. I ran 4 pieces of
telephone line to my attic, one for the telephone**, one for a burglar
alarm sensor*** in the window frame, one for a smoke detector for the
burglar alarm, and one I don't even remember what for.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:30:40 GMT, Robert Barr wrote:
Just use an ohmmeter. Unhook every wire at both ends. Strip & twist
two together. Go to the other end, and see which pair has continuity.
Continue until they're all identified. Pretty easy.


Thanks, not so easy in that I may have to cut into all 4 wires, but it
may be what I have to do.

(I wanted to splice into the middle of a wire, test on which side of
that point in the wire is the broken wire, and bypass the part that is
broken. )


If the GB detector is one where you plug a transmitter in a 120V outlet
and locate a breaker with a receiver, they work by putting a current
signal on the hot-neutral loop and detecting the signal. If you don't
have a loop (open wire) they don't work. Also they work on 120V circuits
- you probably don't want 120V on a phone line.

Are there more than 2 wires at the phone jack - can you substitute
another pair? Or find 2 wires out of all of them that work?

Phone repairmen use toners and probes like
http://www.professionalequipment.com...telecom-tools/
to trace phone wires. The toner attaches to one end. If you can borrow
one it may be useful to locate the phone wire in the attic.

If you 'tone' a broken wire and ground the other wires and other side of
the toner you may get a signal on one side of the break and no signal on
the other. (It worked on Romex with 120V as the signal and a Tic Tracer
as the signal detector - may not work with a phone toner.)

If you can get a 'non-contact' voltage detector like a Tic Tracer
http://www.professionalequipment.com...qx/default.htm
you could probably find the wire in the attic. Check the detection
caapability (Tic Tracer says 30VAC). Put an AC signal on the phone wire
- a 24V transformer worked with the Tic Tracer. Try powering between 2
wires or all wires to ground.

--
bud--

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:54:08 -0600, Bud--
wrote:

mm wrote:

I read the post about a GB type detector with a transmitter and
receiver. But will it or something work with lower than 110 volts??

It's not 110v wires that I am confused by. I ran 4 pieces of
telephone line to my attic, one for the telephone**, one for a burglar
alarm sensor*** in the window frame, one for a smoke detector for the
burglar alarm, and one I don't even remember what for.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:30:40 GMT, Robert Barr wrote:
Just use an ohmmeter. Unhook every wire at both ends. Strip & twist
two together. Go to the other end, and see which pair has continuity.
Continue until they're all identified. Pretty easy.


Thanks, not so easy in that I may have to cut into all 4 wires, but it
may be what I have to do.

(I wanted to splice into the middle of a wire, test on which side of
that point in the wire is the broken wire, and bypass the part that is
broken. )


If the GB detector is one where you plug a transmitter in a 120V outlet
and locate a breaker with a receiver, they work by putting a current
signal on the hot-neutral loop and detecting the signal. If you don't
have a loop (open wire) they don't work. Also they work on 120V circuits
- you probably don't want 120V on a phone line.

Now that you point this out, my friend with the burglar alarm company
is more likely to have one of the two devices you list below than he
is to have the 120 volt thing I had in mind.

Are there more than 2 wires at the phone jack - can you substitute
another pair? Or find 2 wires out of all of them that work?

Darn, I should have thought of that.

Phone repairmen use toners and probes like
http://www.professionalequipment.com...telecom-tools/
to trace phone wires. The toner attaches to one end. If you can borrow
one it may be useful to locate the phone wire in the attic.

I've read the rest and when it's a little warmer, I'll see if he has
something like these things. (it's 20 again today. I put a remote
thermometer in the attic, but the battery died. This is the battery
that was in the thing when I bought it at Lowes 4 months ago, so it
might be a year old or more, but I already know it's cold up there
now.)

Thanks.

BTW, FTR I understand why I didn't label the phone wire. There was
only one wire at the time. But I should have started labeling when
there were more. Now it is hard to run a new wire from the basement
to the attic because I also failed to leave the "traveler" would you
call it, in place, a string or wire twice as long so I can tie a wire
at one end and then pull it up to the attic from that end. There is
still room in the hole, and I could drop a thin long weight through
the hole, maybe, except I think fiberglass has fallen down there and
will keep anything not stiff from getting through. At the time, with
a 6 foot drill bit, a 1 foot extension, an electric drill, and the
full length of my arm, I was just long enough to drill the hole. It
seems like I should have been a foot or two longer, since I only have
8 foot ceilings, plus the height of the bottom layer of truss in the
attic. Maybe it's cause the drill bit was flexible. Now of course,
I'm 24 years older (60) and I can't decide if things are harder than
they used to be or not. but they might be.

If you 'tone' a broken wire and ground the other wires and other side of
the toner you may get a signal on one side of the break and no signal on
the other. (It worked on Romex with 120V as the signal and a Tic Tracer
as the signal detector - may not work with a phone toner.)

If you can get a 'non-contact' voltage detector like a Tic Tracer
http://www.professionalequipment.com...qx/default.htm
you could probably find the wire in the attic. Check the detection
caapability (Tic Tracer says 30VAC). Put an AC signal on the phone wire
- a 24V transformer worked with the Tic Tracer. Try powering between 2
wires or all wires to ground.

mm wrote:


BTW, FTR I understand why I didn't label the phone wire. There was
only one wire at the time. But I should have started labeling when
there were more. Now it is hard to run a new wire from the basement
to the attic because I also failed to leave the "traveler" would you
call it, in place, a string or wire twice as long so I can tie a wire
at one end and then pull it up to the attic from that end. There is
still room in the hole, and I could drop a thin long weight through
the hole, maybe, except I think fiberglass has fallen down there and
will keep anything not stiff from getting through.

You could attach 2 strings (wires, ...) to one of the exsisting signal
wires, pull the strings up to the attic, and pull the signal wire back
down using one of the strings. The "traveler" string could be taped to
the signal wire as it goes up into the wall so less of the signal wire
has to be pulled up.

--
bud--