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#1
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
I installed sixteen dimmer switches around the house, for various purposes.
Don't have any problems at all, but am curious. When a dimmer switch is turned down so the light is not as bright, does this save electricity or does the dimmer switch disperse the voltage drop in heat? Thanks for the info. Bob |
#2
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
Bob wrote:
I installed sixteen dimmer switches around the house, for various purposes. Don't have any problems at all, but am curious. When a dimmer switch is turned down so the light is not as bright, does this save electricity or does the dimmer switch disperse the voltage drop in heat? Thanks for the info. Bob Modern home dimmer switch do save energy. Of course they do consume some heat and most lamps when dimmed are somewhat less efficient. So if you had 10 lamps in the room you could dim them all 50% or turn half of them off and save a little more energy. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#3
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
Joseph Meehan wrote:
... if you had 10 lamps in the room you could dim them all 50% or turn half of them off and save a little more energy. Wikipedia says the power used and light output of an incandescent bulb are proportional to V^1.6 and V^3.4, so light is proportional to V^(3.4/1.6) = P^2.125, no? Turning half off makes half the light with half the power, but dimming all to 50% power only makes 0.5^2.1225, ie 23% of the light. Making 50% of the light requires dimming them all to 0.5^(1/2.125), ie 72% of the original power. That's a lot vs a little more energy, IMO. Then again, CFs are 4X more efficient, and some dimmable CFs have a light output that's directly proportional to power :-) Nick |
#4
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
You do save alot but im not sure about nicks numbers, To get an
incandesant to light when its output might be 1/ 100th or less I found mine took 6-8v. I believe at 50% power you get less than 50% light output. But incandesants can last 10 times more at 50% and nearly indefinatly at 10% power, but this does not apply to halogens. |
#5
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
On Jan 27, 8:15 am, wrote: Joseph Meehan wrote: ... if you had 10 lamps in the room you could dim them all 50% or turn half of them off and save a little more energy.Wikipedia says the power used and light output of an incandescent bulb are proportional to V^1.6 and V^3.4, so light is proportional to V^(3.4/1.6) = P^2.125, no? Turning half off makes half the light with half the power, but dimming all to 50% power only makes 0.5^2.1225, ie 23% of the light. Making 50% of the light requires dimming them all to 0.5^(1/2.125), ie 72% of the original power. That's a lot vs a little more energy, IMO. Then again, CFs are 4X more efficient, and some dimmable CFs have a light output that's directly proportional to power :-) Nick Another Nick classic. Quick with the numbers and clueless as usual. The guy didn't ask if a bulb that is at half brightness uses less energy. Any dummy knows that. What he asked was whether the energy saved at the bulb just shows up as energy wasted at the dimmer. Which of course it doesn;t because dimmers are Triacs. |
#6
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
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#7
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
On Jan 27, 11:15 am, "Joseph Meehan" wrote: wrote:.. Another Nick classic. Quick with the numbers and clueless as usual. The guy didn't ask if a bulb that is at half brightness uses less energy. Any dummy knows that. What he asked was whether the energy saved at the bulb just shows up as energy wasted at the dimmer. Which of course it doesn;t because dimmers are Triacs. I guess that could be called a trader4 classic since not all dimmers are triacs. His numbers are correct and I believe he properly addressed the question. Often a question calls for additional information. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit Sorry, but I have to disagree. All Nick addressed was how much energy is consumed in the light bulbs. That was not the question. We all know a bulb that is burning at half brightness is going to use less energy. The question was whether the energy saved in the light bulb is just dissipated instead in the dimmer. And it would be if the dimmer were a resistor. |
#8
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
On Jan 27, 11:15 am, "Joseph Meehan" wrote: wrote:.. Another Nick classic. Quick with the numbers and clueless as usual. The guy didn't ask if a bulb that is at half brightness uses less energy. Any dummy knows that. What he asked was whether the energy saved at the bulb just shows up as energy wasted at the dimmer. Which of course it doesn;t because dimmers are Triacs. I guess that could be called a trader4 classic since not all dimmers are triacs. The OP says he installed 16 dimmer switches in his house. When is the last time you saw a house dimmer switch that wasn't semiconductor/ Triac based? Every one you can buy down at the home center is. And that was precisely the issue of the OP's question. Because these type that use semiconducotrs and have been around for decades do not just produce a voltage drop like a resistor would. If the dimmer was resistor based, then it would just dissipate the energy instead of the dimmed bulb and you would not save energy by dimming the bulb. That was the question, which asked if the energy that doesn't go to the bulb was not just dissipated as a voltage drop in the dimmer. His numbers are correct and I believe he properly addressed the question. Often a question calls for additional information. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#9
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
"Bob" wrote in message ... I installed sixteen dimmer switches around the house, for various purposes. Don't have any problems at all, but am curious. When a dimmer switch is turned down so the light is not as bright, does this save electricity or does the dimmer switch disperse the voltage drop in heat? Thanks for the info. Bob They do save, but not directly proportional to the voltage drop. Your bulbs will last longer also since they are not operating at full temperature. |
#10
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
On Jan 27, 8:34 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote: "Bob" wrote in ... I installed sixteen dimmer switches around the house, for various purposes. Don't have any problems at all, but am curious. When a dimmer switch is turned down so the light is not as bright, does this save electricity or does the dimmer switch disperse the voltage drop in heat? Thanks for the info. BobThey do save, but not directly proportional to the voltage drop. Your bulbs will last longer also since they are not operating at full temperature. The type of dimmers under discussion are semiconductor based, using Triacs. They are not variable resistor based, which would just dissipate the energy that is not going to the lights, producing no energy savings. The Triacs work instead by delaying turning on the output voltage for part of the 60Hz sine wave, essentially chopping off varying portions of the leading edge. That chopping action, which turns a nice sine wave into something with a fast rising edge, is also what produces RF intereference that is common with these. There is of course some energy lost as heat in the dimmer, so they are not 100% efficient, as you can tell by touching one. But a light dimmed with one of these does save a substantial amount of energy. |
#11
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
.... They do save, but not directly proportional to the voltage drop. Your bulbs will last longer also since they are not operating at full temperature. I might add that while that is true for most all lamps, under some conditions (generally when dimmed between about 40-60% halogen lamps will actually have reduced life. Kind of knit picking. :-) Also while and not sure exactly what trader4 was trying to say, but you are correct about the savings not being directly proportional. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#12
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
Joseph Meehan wrote:
I might add that while that is true for most all lamps, under some conditions (generally when dimmed between about 40-60% halogen lamps will actually have reduced life. Kind of knit picking. :-) And, as a further example, that should be "nit" not "knit", Joseph. G Particularly relevant to this thread, given one of the definitions of "nit", dontcha' think? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nit_%28unit%29 Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight. |
#13
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote: I might add that while that is true for most all lamps, under some conditions (generally when dimmed between about 40-60% halogen lamps will actually have reduced life. Kind of knit picking. :-) And, as a further example, that should be "nit" not "knit", Joseph. G I knew I would get caught on that one. I just could not think of the correct spelling so I did SWAG and was wrong. :-) Particularly relevant to this thread, given one of the definitions of "nit", dontcha' think? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nit_%28unit%29 Jeff -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#14
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Dimmer switch(s) - just curious
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:38:53 -0600, "Bob"
wrote: I installed sixteen dimmer switches around the house, for various purposes. Don't have any problems at all, but am curious. When a dimmer switch is turned down so the light is not as bright, does this save electricity or does the dimmer switch disperse the voltage drop in heat? Thanks for the info. Bob I put in newer electronic dimmers, and part of their advertisement, was they reduce electricity, and extend bulb life. I don't remembering it be 1 for 1 relationship. Example, 50% setting saved 40% and extended bulbs life like 25%. Just what I remember... tom @ www.FreeCreditCheckGuide.com |
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