Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Pep wrote:
I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace ...

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.

Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Yes it does. However...

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

We have a 90+% efficient furnace and while there is a bit of a cloud it
would not frost up a window 6 feet away. I suppoe the ones they
recommend could be different, though.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

"Pep" wrote in message



Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

It is not that bad. I know of two units, one across the street from me, the
other is a tenant in our warehouse building. I've never seen condensation
on the walls and never saw it go so far that it would be on a neighbor's
house.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

I wonder if he's ever heard of an ELBOW.? Aim it down or sideways and it
should avoid both problems. DUH

--
Steve Barker


"Pep" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

I have a high efficiency Amana vented horizontally just above the sill
plate. It's 12 degree's f here in Michigan now. There is less condensation
coming out than when you start a cold car to give a comparison. i have a
bedroom window about 4 feet away that has never had condensation on it. The
bushes 1 foot away look no different than those 15 feet away. This will be
our 3rd winter on this furnace. I'm happy with it.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

On 16 Jan 2007 19:48:54 -0800, "Pep" wrote:

I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

imho:

I have a 90%+ unit, and never saw any of this 'frost'. Now I don't
have a window over my flue either, but I do have a wall about a foot
away from the exhaust. No frost.

Might want to get that third estimate. Also, check with your
accoutant, if you don't get your high effeciancy rating, you might not
get the tax credit, and the cost of fuel over the years could have you
kicking yourself.

Just thinking out loud....

tom @ www.MedJobSite.com

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

My 93.5% Lennox does not produce enough condensation to cloud anything.
Call any manufacturer for recommendations. Do you want to save 12-15%
for ever, put in a 94.5% unit. You should not consider anything else
but Condensing. I believe in England condensing is Law for replacement.
England exports NG and is warmer than the US - Canada, maybe we- U.S.
need to learn from the europeans.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

My neighbors house is 4 ft away from my condensing exhaust , no it does
not affect it at -15f nor would it affect it at 2ft away if they had any
wall insulation or not. You gotta idiot hacko telling you this, must be
from the althvac group.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

I had a high efficiency gas furnace in my Toronto home and the vent
was directly below my dining room window. I had no issues with window
icing but ice did build-up on the PVC pipe itself during sharply cold
weather. It wasn't a serious or frequent problem and it was easy to
knock off with your boot.

Cheers,
Paul

On 16 Jan 2007 19:48:54 -0800, "Pep" wrote:

I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Pep wrote:
I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

The condensed water is acidic, so if nothing else drains in there and it
is cast iron or copper, could very slowly eat it up. My condinsigs at
work drain outside, and I get a huge icicle in the winter. They changes
it to drain into my slop sink and I keep a bag of marble chips under it
in the hope of neutralizing it somewhat. It does eat the rocks away...

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Under no conditions let this idiot inside your house again


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)



Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?



No, and no.

Actually the condensing furnace exhaust has less moisture in it than the
standard[remember the drain?]


thanks

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

m Ransley wrote:
My neighbors house is 4 ft away from my condensing exhaust , no it does
not affect it at -15f nor would it affect it at 2ft away if they had any
wall insulation or not. You gotta idiot hacko telling you this, must be
from the althvac group.

Hi,
Do you know how cold it can get in Calgary?
How about -35C with wind chill of -50C-ish?
Not all the time but there are days like this.
Here in old neighborhood house to house distance is ~10 feet,
in higher density new neighborhood it's ~8 feet.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

"Pep" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

Be careful of CO if you open the window during the heating season.

Furnace Exhaust with 20 years of experience
 

I have had a high efficiency furnace for over 20 years, one of the first
ones. It exhausts out the side of my basement wall with a "tee" on the end
of the pipe to split the exhaust up and down. While there is a cloud of
condensation when it is running, it creates no problems, sometimes a small
mound of ice on the ground below. It is in a corner of an "L" and does not
cause icing on the walls around it. Check other installers, that one doesn't
want to install the high-efficiency furnace, probably because he has not
learned how to do it properly, which is bad because they have been around
for 25 years.


"Pep" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta. So we
get some pretty cold days

Both have said that a new horizontal exhaust is required out the side
of the house. Both contractors will also drain condensed water from
the furnace to a floor drain inside my basement.

One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace. He said that the new
exhaust will produce a sizable condensation cloud which will frost over
a window which is about 3-4 feet above the exhaust. As well he thought
condensation would freeze on my neighbors house which is about 6-8 feet
away.


Does a high efficiency gas furnace really produce a cloud of
condensation? (It gets quite cold here, with a lot of freeze thaw
cycles over the winter)

Would the furnace exhaust come out with enough force to frost up my
neighbor's exterior wall 6 feet away?

thanks

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Tony Hwang wrote:
Do you know how cold it can get in Calgary?
How about -35C with wind chill of -50C-ish?
Not all the time but there are days like this.
Here in old neighborhood house to house distance is ~10 feet,
in higher density new neighborhood it's ~8 feet.

I live in Saskatoon, so I feel I can comment based on similar weather.

At -35 (windchill of about -45) my condensing furnace did not cause
frost on my car ~6ft away or on the window directly above the exhaust.
Also, my neighbor's condensing furnace didn't cause frost on my wall
which is about 6ft from his house.

Chris

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:52:48 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:
Do you know how cold it can get in Calgary?
How about -35C with wind chill of -50C-ish?
Not all the time but there are days like this.
Here in old neighborhood house to house distance is ~10 feet,
in higher density new neighborhood it's ~8 feet.

I live in Saskatoon, so I feel I can comment based on similar weather.

At -35 (windchill of about -45) my condensing furnace did not cause
frost on my car ~6ft away or on the window directly above the exhaust.
Also, my neighbor's condensing furnace didn't cause frost on my wall
which is about 6ft from his house.


You're more likely to get frost deposits when the air temp.
is rising to right around freezing, and the surfaces are
still colder. at -35F, water vapor will freeze too fast
to deposit on surfaces.

I still think I'd put the furnace in anyway, and
worry about sticking a baffle or something
on the output only if it proves to be a problem.

--Goedjn

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:28:33 -0500, Bubba
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:15:18 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I wonder if he's ever heard of an ELBOW.? Aim it down or sideways and it
should avoid both problems. DUH

Down or sideways? Duhhhh yourself. Obviously you've never looked at
the installation manual on venting a 90% eff furnace.
You would have many many callbacks with that "fix".

My inclination, (without benefit of instructions)
would be to 'T' it into a larger pipe, pointed up and down,
and open at both ends. But not until a problem
became apparent.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Goedjn wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:28:33 -0500, Bubba
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:15:18 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I wonder if he's ever heard of an ELBOW.? Aim it down or sideways and it
should avoid both problems. DUH

Down or sideways? Duhhhh yourself. Obviously you've never looked at
the installation manual on venting a 90% eff furnace.
You would have many many callbacks with that "fix".

My inclination, (without benefit of instructions)
would be to 'T' it into a larger pipe, pointed up and down,
and open at both ends. But not until a problem
became apparent.



Thanks for the input everyone. Like some have suggested that particular
contractor was pretty negative on the high efficiency furnace. Due to
my finished basement any new ducting would be a pain to install
compared to a simple mid efficiency furnace.

I did get a total or four bids. Two would only install mid efficiency.
(the laziest and least knowledgeable IMHO). The other contractor who
would install high efficiency was particularly thorough and followed up
well on my questions. And like many have suggest exhaust condensation
will likely not be an issue after asking more questions.

So a new Trane XV90 is being installed next week. Anyone know where I
can get a Trane installation manual?

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Congratulations on the purchase of your new Trane furnace. I think
you were wise to go with a high efficiency model; natural gas prices
will continue to trend higher in years to come and so you'll want to
squeeze every last BTU from each cubic foot you burn.

There is a link to the owner's manual on this page:
http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...aces/XV90.aspx

Cheers,
Paul

On 17 Jan 2007 19:32:03 -0800, "Pep" wrote:

Thanks for the input everyone. Like some have suggested that particular
contractor was pretty negative on the high efficiency furnace. Due to
my finished basement any new ducting would be a pain to install
compared to a simple mid efficiency furnace.

I did get a total or four bids. Two would only install mid efficiency.
(the laziest and least knowledgeable IMHO). The other contractor who
would install high efficiency was particularly thorough and followed up
well on my questions. And like many have suggest exhaust condensation
will likely not be an issue after asking more questions.

So a new Trane XV90 is being installed next week. Anyone know where I
can get a Trane installation manual?

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

"Pep" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have had two contractors in to price out a new high efficiency (90%)
gas furnace for my 25 year old home located in Calgary Alberta.


One didn't recommend the high efficiency furnace.

That's because he is uninformed of the benefits and doesn't understand the
technologies behind the 90+ unit.

I'm glad to see you decided on the 90+ unit. Your pocket book with thank you
later. :-)

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:15:18 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I wonder if he's ever heard of an ELBOW.? Aim it down or sideways and it
should avoid both problems. DUH

Down or sideways? Duhhhh yourself. Obviously you've never looked at
the installation manual on venting a 90% eff furnace.
You would have many many callbacks with that "fix".
Bubba
Except on some models where a 90 degree
elbow towards the ground
IS required. Duh!

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

I'm glad to see you decided on the 90+ unit. Your pocket book with thank you
later.

Certainly in Calgary... I would just point out for the lurkers that the
difference in cost between the 80 and 90+ furnaces in the less extreme parts of
the continent can make the payback a long, long time. YMMV.

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

Mine's got a 90 on it. Would you care to elaborate on your incorrect
sarcasm?

--
Steve Barker



"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:15:18 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I wonder if he's ever heard of an ELBOW.? Aim it down or sideways and it
should avoid both problems. DUH

Down or sideways? Duhhhh yourself. Obviously you've never looked at
the installation manual on venting a 90% eff furnace.
You would have many many callbacks with that "fix".
Bubba

Question about high efficiency Furnace Exhaust
 

No it's not the same guy. Read.

--
Steve Barker


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
This is the guy who's going to put his gas valve in. Wonder if we'll
read about him?