Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

"Sudy Nim" writes:

Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

One valve up, outside of the pit, is what you want. ANd don't forget
to drill a small air relief hole drilled in the discharge pipe an inch
above the pump angled down int othe pit. This prevents airlock.

You don't want the checkvalve screwing right into the pump. I recall
reading that explicitly in instructions, though I have to confess i'm
not entirely sure why. It may be that it prevents the inclusion of an
air relief hole, dunno.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
"Sudy Nim" writes:

Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

One valve up, outside of the pit, is what you want. ANd don't forget
to drill a small air relief hole drilled in the discharge pipe an inch
above the pump angled down int othe pit. This prevents airlock.

You don't want the checkvalve screwing right into the pump. I recall
reading that explicitly in instructions, though I have to confess i'm
not entirely sure why. It may be that it prevents the inclusion of an
air relief hole, dunno.

--


make cetrtain the area never freezes
http://www.toddh.net/

I have found little need for a check valve. I live in an area that freezes
in winter. If you install a check valve it will hold water in the pipe
allowing it to freeze and then the pump cannot remove any water.

When I originally installed it without the check valve, I found that the
discharge end would end up submerged in the ditch and would siphon water
back into the sump causing it to cycle on/off every couple of minutes. I had
to break the siphon.

I decided that it was necessary to introduce air in the line to break the
siphon and to allow the 90 foot run to the ditch to drain. At the time they
didn't sell those devices for use in drains without a vent, but I had a
spare foot valve for a well pump, I cut a tee into the discharge pipe added
an 18 inch riser and installed the foot valve. When the pump pumps out the
foot valve is closed so no water leaks out, but as soon at the pump turns
off the weight of the water creates a vacuum which opens the foot valve and
lets in air that drains the pipes back to the pump and to the ditch. This
same foot valve has been in use with no problems since 1970. The only
disadvantage is when the valve opens it makes sounds like an old man with
bad gas, which isn't that bad, because when I hear the sound, I know it is
working.

"Sudy Nim" wrote in message
...
Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

Sudy Nim wrote:
Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

The check valve is located as close to the pump as is practical. I have NO
idea what the other poster is talking about w/r to not on the pump,
and -drilling- an airhole. It makes no sense, and drilling airholes is
silly as there IS no air to create a suction in a properly installed sump
pump system; it's not a closed system.
My current sump came with the valve pre-screwed into the pedestal, ready
for th PVC to connect to it. ANY instructions I've seen on the check valves
I've had to purchase ALWAYS have shown the check valve screwed into the sump
pump via the threads provided for it.

In general, the check valve should be close to the pump so that there is
less air to trap in the pipes between the pump and the valve; gives it a
faster startup and the water standing in the pipe won't compress and cause
"spurts" when the pump comes on.

I can see zero advantage to two check valves unless you're just thinking of
redundancy. However, each chack valve does offer a finite resistance to the
flow of water, so there would be some slowing of the water movement; no idea
how much. It IS a good idea to have one on hand though, just in case it's
needed. They're very easy to replace. So I don't suppose it'd hurt a LOT,
especially if the water didn't have to pump upwards very far, but ... I
really see little benefit. I seem to get about ten years out of a sump
pump, and have never yet had a check valve go bad on me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sump_pump
and also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_valve

HTH
Pop`

They used to drill holes just above the low water mark to take the head
pressure off the pump as the didn't put the check valve down low like moden
installers do now. What used to happen is the pump would run and nothing
would happen for a bit until it had the head pressure built up then it would
pump. I don't think the old pumps were built as nice or have the head
pressure of a modern pump.

Rich



Pop` wrote:
Sudy Nim wrote:
Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

The check valve is located as close to the pump as is practical. I
have NO idea what the other poster is talking about w/r to not on the
pump, and -drilling- an airhole. It makes no sense, and drilling airholes
is silly as there IS no air to create a suction in a properly
installed sump pump system; it's not a closed system.
My current sump came with the valve pre-screwed into the pedestal,
ready for th PVC to connect to it. ANY instructions I've seen on the
check valves I've had to purchase ALWAYS have shown the check valve
screwed into the sump pump via the threads provided for it.

In general, the check valve should be close to the pump so that there
is less air to trap in the pipes between the pump and the valve;
gives it a faster startup and the water standing in the pipe won't
compress and cause "spurts" when the pump comes on.

I can see zero advantage to two check valves unless you're just
thinking of redundancy. However, each chack valve does offer a
finite resistance to the flow of water, so there would be some
slowing of the water movement; no idea how much. It IS a good idea
to have one on hand though, just in case it's needed. They're very
easy to replace. So I don't suppose it'd hurt a LOT, especially if
the water didn't have to pump upwards very far, but ... I really see
little benefit. I seem to get about ten years out of a sump pump,
and have never yet had a check valve go bad on me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sump_pump
and also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_valve

HTH
Pop`

One check valve, screw it into the pump.

--
Steve Barker



"Sudy Nim" wrote in message
...
Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
I have found little need for a check valve. I live in an area that freezes
in winter. If you install a check valve it will hold water in the pipe
allowing it to freeze and then the pump cannot remove any water.

That's why you put the check valve indoors, and angle the pipe downward so it
will drain. I, too, live in an area that freezes in winter -- and I've
*never* had that problem. Your problem was caused by poor drainage of the
discharge line, not by the check valve.

When I originally installed it without the check valve, I found that the
discharge end would end up submerged in the ditch and would siphon water
back into the sump causing it to cycle on/off every couple of minutes. I had
to break the siphon.

That's why you use a check valve: so you don't siphon the ditch into your sump
pit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article Nihnh.7399$kB3.2294@trnddc08, "Pop`" wrote:
Sudy Nim wrote:

In general, the check valve should be close to the pump so that there is
less air to trap in the pipes between the pump and the valve; gives it a
faster startup and the water standing in the pipe won't compress and cause
"spurts" when the pump comes on.

Water doesn't compress anyway...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

(Doug Miller) writes:

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
I have found little need for a check valve. I live in an area that freezes
in winter. If you install a check valve it will hold water in the pipe
allowing it to freeze and then the pump cannot remove any water.

That's why you put the check valve indoors, and angle the pipe downward so it
will drain.

Yup. Mine is above the pump, above the top of the sump, but quite
indoors.

If you have a redundant pump system like a basement watchdog it should
have its own checkvalve separate from the main pump, and the Y to the
discharge heading outside should be above or downstream of both check
valves.


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article Nihnh.7399$kB3.2294@trnddc08, "Pop`"
wrote:
Sudy Nim wrote:

In general, the check valve should be close to the pump so that there is
less air to trap in the pipes between the pump and the valve; gives it a
faster startup and the water standing in the pipe won't compress and
cause
"spurts" when the pump comes on.

Water doesn't compress anyway...

"Water doesn't compress anyway"...
For the purposes of this discussion and for info only, that's correct but,
in actuality, not a true statement. Water, or any fluid for that, matter,
is compressible. Granted, the change in volume is very small but it is an
important factor that needs to be considered in high response hyraulic
control sysstems. At times, the difference between having a stable vs an
unstable system. Read (google) Bulk Modulus.
MLD

Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article Rdunh.5$GL.2@trndny06, "MLD" wrote:

"Water doesn't compress anyway"...
For the purposes of this discussion and for info only, that's correct but,
in actuality, not a true statement. Water, or any fluid for that, matter,
is compressible. Granted, the change in volume is very small but it is an
important factor that needs to be considered in high response hyraulic
control sysstems.

Excuse me. I thought we were talking about a sump pump, not a high
response hyrdraulic control system.

At times, the difference between having a stable vs an
unstable system. Read (google) Bulk Modulus.

Pedant.

Go away.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article Rdunh.5$GL.2@trndny06, "MLD" wrote:

"Water doesn't compress anyway"...
For the purposes of this discussion and for info only, that's correct
but,
in actuality, not a true statement. Water, or any fluid for that,
matter,
is compressible. Granted, the change in volume is very small but it is an
important factor that needs to be considered in high response hyraulic
control sysstems.

Excuse me. I thought we were talking about a sump pump, not a high
response hyrdraulic control system.

At times, the difference between having a stable vs an
unstable system. Read (google) Bulk Modulus.

Pedant.

Go away.

--
I said for info only. Don't be a jerk just because you learned something
new!
MLD

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article s.com, "EXT"
wrote:
I have found little need for a check valve. I live in an area that freezes
in winter. If you install a check valve it will hold water in the pipe
allowing it to freeze and then the pump cannot remove any water.

That's why you put the check valve indoors, and angle the pipe downward so
it
will drain. I, too, live in an area that freezes in winter -- and I've
*never* had that problem. Your problem was caused by poor drainage of the
discharge line, not by the check valve.

Yes, it probably was because the 1 1/2" poly line was not perfectly flat as
it traveled 90 feet to the ditch. This is what happens when the final grade
was done 4 months later by a bulldozer and compressed the soil. However, I
have found that eliminating the check valve has eliminated any problems that
could be caused by using it: frozen discharge line and the check valve
sticking open. Using an air inlet valve was a simple and workable solution
for the past 36 years.


When I originally installed it without the check valve, I found that the
discharge end would end up submerged in the ditch and would siphon water
back into the sump causing it to cycle on/off every couple of minutes. I
had
to break the siphon.

That's why you use a check valve: so you don't siphon the ditch into your
sump
pit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"EXT" writes:

Yes, it probably was because the 1 1/2" poly line was not perfectly flat as
it traveled 90 feet to the ditch. This is what happens when the final grade
was done 4 months later by a bulldozer and compressed the soil. However, I
have found that eliminating the check valve has eliminated any problems that
could be caused by using it: frozen discharge line and the check valve
sticking open. Using an air inlet valve was a simple and workable solution
for the past 36 years.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

But 3 "lefts" do.

I'd count yourself a lot luckier than smart about using a discharge
without positive slope and making it work by eliminating a check
valve.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

In article s.com,
p says...
Yes, it probably was because the 1 1/2" poly line was not perfectly flat as
it traveled 90 feet to the ditch. This is what happens when the final grade
was done 4 months later by a bulldozer and compressed the soil. However, I
have found that eliminating the check valve has eliminated any problems that
could be caused by using it:

Piffle. You didn't have any problems that were caused by using the check
valve.

frozen discharge line

Caused by improper slope of the discharge line.

and the check valve
sticking open.

Caused by locating the check valve in an area subject to freezing.

Using an air inlet valve was a simple and workable solution
for the past 36 years.

If it works for you, fine -- but I agree with the other guy that said
you were lucky, rather than good. I certainly wouldn't advise others to
do as you did.

Discharge side near the pump. I've never know anyone to put a
check valve on the suction side. Always on the discharge.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Sudy Nim" wrote in message
...
Is it better to have the check valve located at the base of the
pump
near the inlet or further away on the discharge pipe above the
pump?
Also, would two check valves be of advantage, one at the base
another
a couple of feet above the base? TIA

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Discharge side near the pump. I've never know anyone to put a
check valve on the suction side. Always on the discharge.


If you did put the check valve on the suction side of the pump it would
have the same effect as the foot valve on a portable pumps drafting
hose. When a portable pump must pump against a high discharge pressure
it must also have a discharge side check valve and a pressure release
valve upstream of that check valve to allow the pump to start without
trying to start against the back pressure of the standing water already
in the discharge line. Submersible pumps such as sump pumps do not need
an intake check valve and if one is installed it will cause excessive
ware on the pump's motor by causing it to start under load.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.