OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....

I don't think so. Try the ham radio group

"dpb" writes:

OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....

You may be out of luck. While it's easy to mentally envision a
wireless roator control, searches yield no fruit, and technically, you
would be trading the fun of running the control wire against the new
need then to have some sort of power source available to the receiver
of any wireless control signal we might envision.

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

I wonder if we'll see a return to external antennae in the wake of
hdtv and people realizing how much per year they might save by ditching
cable.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....

You may be out of luck. While it's easy to mentally envision a
wireless roator control, searches yield no fruit, and technically, you
would be trading the fun of running the control wire against the new
need then to have some sort of power source available to the receiver
of any wireless control signal we might envision.

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

I wonder if we'll see a return to external antennae in the wake of
hdtv and people realizing how much per year they might save by ditching
cable.

Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
doing some work up there a while back.

I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
retraction on that score.

If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.

have you considered satellite TV? most local citys are up, guide data
for future and best of allm DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER, record what you
want watch when YOU want!

No antenna or rotor needed

hundreds of channels at very good prices too

"dpb" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....


run new coax and power wire for the rotator on the outside of the house,
maybe behind a downspout. may be able to get white wire if house is white.
make sure you ground both to your unified power, phone, etc ground. you'll
be glad you did.

wrote:
have you considered satellite TV? most local citys are up, guide data
for future and best of allm DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER, record what you
want watch when YOU want!

No antenna or rotor needed

hundreds of channels at very good prices too

Have I considered it? Well, yes, in brief passing...the clauses of
"outs" for the provider and possible "gotcha's" for the user in any of
the contracts I've seen I wouldn't even consider signing is Strike 1.

Where it would have to be to have the southern exposure required would
either require mounting on house or far enough away to require
amplifiers, etc. Dad got a dish tossed in to the last TV he bought and
we considered how to hook it up some years ago when I was home.
Decided wasn't worth the trouble. Srike 2.

100's of channels and still basically nothing to watch! While Mom
was in the assisted living in town and on cable, saw it again and
again. While there are a few stations that would be nice (I got used
to watching the Braves while in TN and kinda' miss them altho unless
they do better than last year, not so much ) and a few other odds 'n
ends, but in general just don't miss it. Also, last time the guy
called at supper time and I tried to find out the deal on the locals,
turns out they only have the main Wichita stations and not the
satellite repeaters/localized stations. So, to get the actual "local"
weather and news channels would still have to have the antenna. Srike
3.

But, it's an idea others who are more interested in programming and
less interested in the one item of near local weather and storm weather
that is my primary interest would probably find the way to go.

On 4 Jan 2007 12:21:17 -0800, "dpb" wrote:

I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
retraction on that score.

You could run the wire down to the ground, over to the downspout, and
up behind the downspout. Or something liek that.

Or ask in sci.electronics.repair .

If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.

dpb wrote:
Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....
You may be out of luck. While it's easy to mentally envision a
wireless roator control, searches yield no fruit, and technically, you
would be trading the fun of running the control wire against the new
need then to have some sort of power source available to the receiver
of any wireless control signal we might envision.

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

I wonder if we'll see a return to external antennae in the wake of
hdtv and people realizing how much per year they might save by ditching
cable.

Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
doing some work up there a while back.

I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
retraction on that score.

If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.


I think the voltage for most light duty rotators is low. It comes from
the control unit. Only place you need 110 is at the control unit. I
have one that uses a light duty 4 wire ribbon cable from the control
unit to the rotator.

Rich256 wrote:
dpb wrote:
Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

....
Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....
You may be out of luck. While it's easy to mentally envision a
wireless roator control, searches yield no fruit, and technically, you
would be trading the fun of running the control wire against the new
need then to have some sort of power source available to the receiver
of any wireless control signal we might envision.

....
Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
doing some work up there a while back.

....
I think the voltage for most light duty rotators is low. It comes from
the control unit. Only place you need 110 is at the control unit. I
have one that uses a light duty 4 wire ribbon cable from the control
unit to the rotator.

I know. I was hoping for a way to put the controller there and just
run the cable from that point where there already is access.

If I can't find or gin up something, in all likelihood I'll forget the
rotator...it's not that important to me, but seems like it would
possibly be benificial. While I'm putting up a new antenna I'll try
the manual rotating thing and see if it really does anything great. If
it does at that point I might get more motivated to look into the
alternative wiring routes/choices.

Thanks...

Have I considered it? Well, yes, in brief passing...the clauses of
"outs" for the provider and possible "gotcha's" for the user in any of
the contracts I've seen I wouldn't even consider signing is Strike 1.

Where it would have to be to have the southern exposure required would
either require mounting on house or far enough away to require
amplifiers, etc. Dad got a dish tossed in to the last TV he bought and
we considered how to hook it up some years ago when I was home.
Decided wasn't worth the trouble. Srike 2.

100's of channels and still basically nothing to watch! While Mom
was in the assisted living in town and on cable, saw it again and
again. While there are a few stations that would be nice (I got used
to watching the Braves while in TN and kinda' miss them altho unless
they do better than last year, not so much ) and a few other odds 'n
ends, but in general just don't miss it. Also, last time the guy
called at supper time and I tried to find out the deal on the locals,
turns out they only have the main Wichita stations and not the
satellite repeaters/localized stations. So, to get the actual "local"
weather and news channels would still have to have the antenna. Srike
3.

But, it's an idea others who are more interested in programming and
less interested in the one item of near local weather and storm weather
that is my primary interest would probably find the way to go.

well in the last few years BIG changes have occured to satellite TV.

long cable runs use new technology elminating amplifiers. if antenna
and rotor is ok on your home then whats the big problem with a 2 foot
diamneter dish?

many more local stations are up

new lease deals basically mirroring cable, try it if you dont like it
just call and cancel and return the box, which now can output 2
different feeds to seperate tvs without a extra fee.

the receivers when plugged into a phone line provide 100% local weather
and forecasts all the time at no extra cost. just clkick and its there.

mysel;f I just look out the window, snow storms are of interest beyond
that little matters

Dish installs the equiptement either free or 50 bucks depending on what
package you choose with no long term commitments.

for rural subs the PI public interest channels our of interest to many
and come with the most basic packages

You have NO IDEA what a DVR does it changes how you watch TV FOREVER!

dpb wrote:

If I can't find or gin up something, in all likelihood I'll forget the
rotator...it's not that important to me, but seems like it would
possibly be benificial. While I'm putting up a new antenna I'll try
the manual rotating thing and see if it really does anything great. If
it does at that point I might get more motivated to look into the
alternative wiring routes/choices.

Thanks...

I put my antenna on a rotor about 10 years ago. Once I found the best
position for a decent reception on all 6 channels, I rarely use the
rotor anymore. When you move off that "ideal" spot, it's hard to find
it again.

wrote:
Have I considered it? Well, yes, in brief passing...the clauses of
"outs" for the provider and possible "gotcha's" for the user in any of
the contracts I've seen I wouldn't even consider signing is Strike 1.

Where it would have to be to have the southern exposure required would
either require mounting on house or far enough away to require
amplifiers, etc. Dad got a dish tossed in to the last TV he bought and
we considered how to hook it up some years ago when I was home.
Decided wasn't worth the trouble. Srike 2.

100's of channels and still basically nothing to watch! While Mom
was in the assisted living in town and on cable, saw it again and
again. While there are a few stations that would be nice (I got used
to watching the Braves while in TN and kinda' miss them altho unless
they do better than last year, not so much ) and a few other odds 'n
ends, but in general just don't miss it. Also, last time the guy
called at supper time and I tried to find out the deal on the locals,
turns out they only have the main Wichita stations and not the
satellite repeaters/localized stations. So, to get the actual "local"
weather and news channels would still have to have the antenna. Srike
3.

But, it's an idea others who are more interested in programming and
less interested in the one item of near local weather and storm weather
that is my primary interest would probably find the way to go.

well in the last few years BIG changes have occured to satellite TV.

long cable runs use new technology elminating amplifiers. if antenna
and rotor is ok on your home then whats the big problem with a 2 foot
diamneter dish?

many more local stations are up

new lease deals basically mirroring cable, try it if you dont like it
just call and cancel and return the box, which now can output 2
different feeds to seperate tvs without a extra fee.

the receivers when plugged into a phone line provide 100% local weather
and forecasts all the time at no extra cost. just clkick and its there.

mysel;f I just look out the window, snow storms are of interest beyond
that little matters

Dish installs the equiptement either free or 50 bucks depending on what
package you choose with no long term commitments.

for rural subs the PI public interest channels our of interest to many
and come with the most basic packages

You have NO IDEA what a DVR does it changes how you watch TV FOREVER!

The antenna is _NOT_ on the house, it's on its own tower. Where that
is, however, is not open to the southern exposure a dish needs. (As
for the not wanting it on the house, think of it as my pecadillo akin
to your penchant for changing out fuse panels... )

I believe you're used to an area of pretty high population density.
The "local" stations here aren't local in the sense of being here at
all, they're repeaters of Wichita stations that "only" are 45 - 80
miles away as opposed to 250. As noted previously, these are _not_
available on dish, only the main ones and the localized weather is the
prime difference. Their network programming is the same, but they run
localized news and weather instead of the city stories for those
portions of the broadcasts. Missing those makes them almost totally
useless.

You're not farming for a living such that weather and your livelihood
are intimately and directly related. Nor (I think) are you in an area
of frequent severe weather such as here, so your interest in the
weather and mine are totally different. I'd imagine your interest is
more in whether the weekend is to be nice, mine is basic data as one
input for decision-making. So, it combined w/ the ability to get radar
and other direct-access info from the NWS online are two important
pieces of information. Unfortunately, the network connection isn't
always as reliable as the TV, particularly in really threatening
weather.

I don't expect I would ever watch much routine TV programming whatever
the technology -- it's just not something I find of any interest; I'd
rather read when not otherwise occupied (and a farmer's life is never
lacking in something to do). As also previously noted, we had about
everything available on local cable at Mom's apartment and there was
very little other than some additional sports that was even watchable
at all most of the time. (I did kinda' miss the Monday Night Football
for the first few weeks, though, but now find even that isn't _really_
much of a miss after only the one season. So, it basically is a case
of you can't miss what you don't have and it's easy enough to find
other things to do.)

Anyway, again, it's a thought, just probably not one I'll followup on
any time soon...

Red wrote:
dpb wrote:

If I can't find or gin up something, in all likelihood I'll forget the
rotator...it's not that important to me, but seems like it would
possibly be benificial. While I'm putting up a new antenna I'll try
the manual rotating thing and see if it really does anything great. If
it does at that point I might get more motivated to look into the
alternative wiring routes/choices.

Thanks...

I put my antenna on a rotor about 10 years ago. Once I found the best
position for a decent reception on all 6 channels, I rarely use the
rotor anymore. When you move off that "ideal" spot, it's hard to find
it again.

Oooh, that's twice our three! (Well, there's really four on the
rare nights PBS has enough power to have a watchable signal, but that's
still three on most nights!)

The thing I was thinking about the rotor is that there is a newer
repeater almost 180-degrees from the other three that we have had
"since forever". It is coming up out of the TX panhandle from Amarillo
and often, particularly in warm weather, the weather approaches from
that direction rather than the NW. W/ the antenna pointing to the NE,
we have no sign of any signal. Whether I can pick it up if get the new
antenna and point it the right direction I don't yet know so suppose
ought to do that experiment first before even worrying about it at all
further...

Anyway, I was figuring if that were the case of getting it, I'd have to
essentially rotate a half-turn pretty regularly as it's not going to
get both simultaneously, they're all in deep fringe range so need
highly directional antenna. The only saving grace is the three at
present are all roughly in the same direction so one can aim mostly
towards the weakest/farthest away one and still get passable reception
for the most part on the other two.

In article . com, (dpb) writes:

| Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
| right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
| on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
| for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
| additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
| conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
| It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
| doing some work up there a while back.
|
| I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
| pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
| avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
| retraction on that score.
|
| If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
| certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
| didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
| ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.

At one time you could buy a rotor control with an IR remote. You
could place this control in the attic and then use a wireless IR
extender between the TV location and the attic. Better would be a
hard-wired IR extender, but I don't think you can get one that rides
on twinlead.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article . com, (dpb) writes:

| Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
| right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
| on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
| for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
| additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
| conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
| It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
| doing some work up there a while back.
|
| I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
| pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
| avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
| retraction on that score.
|
| If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
| certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
| didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
| ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.

At one time you could buy a rotor control with an IR remote. You
could place this control in the attic and then use a wireless IR
extender between the TV location and the attic. Better would be a
hard-wired IR extender, but I don't think you can get one that rides
on twinlead.


There ya' go! Thanks, Dan. I did find a couple at least of the IR
rotor controls. Hadn't thought of the right buzz words for the IR
extender. I'll see what I can find. It would be nice if I could use
the twin-lead to pull a coax but am almost positive Dad, like his usual
self, will have fastened it firmly at both box ends and the only thing
I'd do would be tear it up and have nothing. At least he did use the
heavy insulated exterior stuff for it all. Wasn't home during this
part of the house remodel so didn't get a chance to suggest some
alternatives/additional niceties to be included...

Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article . com, (dpb) writes:

| Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
| right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
| on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
| for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
| additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
| conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
| It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
| doing some work up there a while back.
|
| I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
| pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
| avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
| retraction on that score.
|
| If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
| certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
| didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
| ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.

At one time you could buy a rotor control with an IR remote. You
could place this control in the attic and then use a wireless IR
extender between the TV location and the attic. Better would be a
hard-wired IR extender, but I don't think you can get one that rides
on twinlead.

OK, that works, thanks!! -- Your catch phrase word of "extender" led to
at least two or three wireless IR extenders that claim 120-ft range.
Since it's frame house and far less distance than that, _should_ work.
(How reliable they'll be is to be determined, of course, but it's a
solution at least in theory and not terribly expensive if turns out not
so good.).

I'll get the antenna first and when the weather clears up (we're
waiting for the third snow/ice in three weeks today altho this one is a
puppy compared to the last two, it's just not what we need just now
) and the ground dries out enough I can get the lift to the tower w/o
making ruts 2-ft deep and see if there's any signal in the other
direction to make the rotor look like it's worth doing.

Thanks to all (even Haller ) for the input...

On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:40:57 GMT, Rich256 wrote:

dpb wrote:
Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

OK, the big ice event took the TV antenna and turned it into an
inverted "V" so it's now time for a new one. Fortunately, other than
limbs, that's my only real problem unlike the poor folks north and west
who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...

Anyway, not had a rotator before but considering it as is a new
repeater that could probably pick up in other direction of traditionals
so looking for some info --

Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled that I'm
going to the effort for something as superfluous as a TV signal. Dad
used the old flat cable instead of coax, unfortunately, so that's all
I've got to work with.

Anybody have any input? I DA(very quick)GS and didn't find much of
help, but don't have any experience on this subject....
You may be out of luck. While it's easy to mentally envision a
wireless roator control, searches yield no fruit, and technically, you
would be trading the fun of running the control wire against the new
need then to have some sort of power source available to the receiver
of any wireless control signal we might envision.

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

I wonder if we'll see a return to external antennae in the wake of
hdtv and people realizing how much per year they might save by ditching
cable.

Thanks, Todd. Actually, there is power in the attic and a 110V outlet
right at the location where the antenna lead comes in. Dad had planned
on and tried one of the amplifiers at one time and had run the power
for it when doing the remodel. Too bad he didn't think about
additional updates like coax for network access and/or running an extra
conduit between floors to allow something else to be pulled easily.
It's not being used now, but is live as I used it for a drop cord when
doing some work up there a while back.

I suppose I could do the outside, up the house thingy, but I have a
pretty strong aversion to hanging stuff on the house if it's at all
avoidable, and TV isn't enough of a priority to likely cause a
retraction on that score.

If you were to have an idea given that there is power up there, I'd
certainly be interested in it. As you say, certainly a quick search
didn't find anything. The other respondent suggesting the ham folks
ain't a bad idea, either. Haven't done so yet, but will try it.


I think the voltage for most light duty rotators is low. It comes from
the control unit. Only place you need 110 is at the control unit. I
have one that uses a light duty 4 wire ribbon cable from the control
unit to the rotator.

The voltage is 24 volts AC.
I made my own crude control some years ago.
It was just a 24V transformer and some switches. It's not rocket
science, just apply voltage to one wire and it turns the motor CCW and
to the other wire and it turns CW. Of course I did not have the
indicator inside, which is most of the circuitry in the factory made
controls. I used to have to look out the window to see where it was
pointed, or just turn till the best tv signal came in. Anyhow, the
voltage is 24 at least on the old Alliance rotors which was probably a
unit from the 1960's back then. For wire to the motor, I have used
plain thermostat cable, although the insulation dont last long on that
stuff in sunlight, so the flat 4 conductor stuff made for rotors is
probably better.

I dont blame the OP for his refusal to sign the contracts for
satellite service. I simply called a company to get a price. It was
way more than I was willing to pay for tv service. They were like
vultures, refused to listen when I said "Not Interested". They began
calling me contantly (I am on the DNC list). The filled my mailbox
with weekly junk, and harassed me to no end. I finally filed a
complaint with the FTC and my phone company. The calls stopped, but 4
or 5 years later I still keep getting mail from them. I often take
their mail and write "return to sender". Let them pay twice for their
junk mail.

On 4 Jan 2007 08:42:16 -0800, "dpb" wrote:

who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...


Where are you located?

Being a farmer myself, could you explain in more detail what happened
to these livestock. I can understand freezing, but why did they
suffocate? I find this very disturbing, since I absolutely love my
horses like family. If we ever got a bad storm like that, I sure
would like to know what to or not to do. Normally when we have severe
weather coming, I bring all of them into the barn. I dont have enough
stalls for all of them, but they just stay in the center of the barn
and irritate each other, but their little irritations, and a few
chunks of fur bit off, are far better than being out in bad weather.
Hopefully by the end of this year I will finally have a stall for each
one of them.

If there are web links from the news, about these animals and the
weather, please post the URLs.

Mark

For the same channels satellite TV is cheaper than cable.

TODAY no long term commitments are necessary, lease model cancel and
just return the receivers. no buyouts or penalties

obviously no one here has a DVR or TIVO or you would be going on and on
about how nice it is to skip commercials and watch whaat you want on
your schedule and not the networks. sooner or later you too will be
assimiliated my dad refused even after i gave him one for christmas.
within a few months he bought one after hearing from so many friends
how great it was.

he apologized for being well dad hardhead......

a major downside to rotors if you have more than one tv watching shows
in different directions your stuck..........

wrote:
On 4 Jan 2007 08:42:16 -0800, "dpb" wrote:

who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...


Where are you located?

Being a farmer myself, could you explain in more detail what happened
to these livestock. I can understand freezing, but why did they
suffocate? I find this very disturbing, since I absolutely love my
horses like family. If we ever got a bad storm like that, I sure
would like to know what to or not to do. Normally when we have severe
weather coming, I bring all of them into the barn. I dont have enough
stalls for all of them, but they just stay in the center of the barn
and irritate each other, but their little irritations, and a few
chunks of fur bit off, are far better than being out in bad weather.
Hopefully by the end of this year I will finally have a stall for each
one of them.

If there are web links from the news, about these animals and the
weather, please post the URLs.

Far SW KS. Cattle are subject to suffocation in heavy snow/wind from
nostrils becoming hard-packed with snow they can't get clear. This was
severe blizzard conditions of high snowfall rates combined with 40-50
mph winds for a period of 24 to nearly 48 hours in some locations.
Total numbers I've heard so far are about 1-2,000 head in KS, but
there's fear in SE and E CO of as many as 30,000 in serious jeopardy.
I've not heard hard counts as yet from there, but the Guards of both KS
and CO are still helicopter-dropping hay to stranded cattle. The other
serious problem now is, of course, water since most rural areas are
still without power and all water here is subterranean. They can get a
little by trying to eat some snow, of course, but by now it's frozen
solid with some thawing and then the hard freezing over night and in
many places covered by inch or more of ice so can't get sufficient
water for a longer term that way.

We were in the freezing rain band for most of the duration as the front
essentially stalled and didn't move more the 40-50 miles from Friday
until it finally cleared here late Saturday. Even then, further north
and west where the worst was continued to get snow and wind from the
"backside" wraparound effect behind the low long after (like another 12
hours or more) it was already clear here. We had over 5" of
precipitation of which 2" or so was freezing rain, so you can imagine
what that would have amounted to in all snowfall and high winds. The
NWS total precipitation radar estimates had a maximums of nearly 12"
moisture when it was over. I suspect this was an over-estimate since
those areas were almost all snow rather than rain, but I have heard 8"
totals reported.

I don't have any specific URLs, but look for news stories on the
storm(s) of last two week(s) in CO and KS. I've not looked to see what
sort of coverage the Denver Post gave to the second storm that mostly
bypassed them after the Christmas week bullet on the airport, but would
be a start. Wichita Eagle, Hutchinson, (KS) News, Garden City and
Dodge City, KS, Lamar and LaJunta (CO) are possibilities. We take the
Wichita paper and they've had some coverage, but certainly not on the
details of the livestock operations although do mention numbers and
general problems. Not had the newest High Plains Journal, a weekly ag
paper to see what their coverage is, but their site is at www.hpj.com
and might be of some interest anyway.

wrote:
For the same channels satellite TV is cheaper than cable.

TODAY no long term commitments are necessary, lease model cancel and
just return the receivers. no buyouts or penalties

obviously no one here has a DVR or TIVO or you would be going on and on
about how nice it is to skip commercials and watch whaat you want on
your schedule and not the networks. sooner or later you too will be
assimiliated my dad refused even after i gave him one for christmas.
within a few months he bought one after hearing from so many friends
how great it was.

he apologized for being well dad hardhead......

a major downside to rotors if you have more than one tv watching shows
in different directions your stuck..........

That certainly has not been an option I've been offered nor heard
advertised here, but as I noted, it isn't the programming that I'm
interested in. The closest I've heard on the "rental" thing has a
hefty up-front payment that isn't refundable and the deferred or
included installation fees are then collectible and payable and aren't
all the cheap. And, even if they did, it doesn't solve the problem of
the "locals" not being the ones I have interest in.

And, yes, no one here has DVR, TIVO. Also, there's only one set and
there are not going to be any more. It doesn't help any to kill the
commercials during the local news and weather; it isn't going to get it
transmitted any earlier, and as soon as it and the sports are over, it
usually goes on mute again, anyway; the wife goes to bed and I read a
while longer. I may listen to the "Top Ten" list or the Leno
"Headlines" on Mondays, but other than that, "off" is the normal
position. (Oh, I forgot, Red Green usually gets his shot on Friday
night as does the local farm markets weekly review show.)

And, yes, no one here has DVR, TIVO. Also, there's only one set and
there are not going to be any more. It doesn't help any to kill the
commercials during the local news and weather; it isn't going to get it
transmitted any earlier, and as soon as it and the sports are over, it
usually goes on mute again, anyway; the wife goes to bed and I read a
while longer. I may listen to the "Top Ten" list or the Leno
"Headlines" on Mondays, but other than that, "off" is the normal
position. (Oh, I forgot, Red Green usually gets his shot on Friday
night as does the local farm markets weekly review show.)

my best friend from 8th grade has a 2 year old. i traded some old
satellite stuff for a slightly used TIVO. friends hubby got nose out of
joint we just watch whats on when its on attitude.

I set up tivo with a push button for regular tv expecting the comments.

her 2 year old loves watching his favorite shows, he operates it great.
her hubby loves sports, replaying football plays, the family is now
firmly a TIVO one

she watches our 4 dogs anytime we go away, it was a nice thank you.

she asked me to remove the swich now they always watch TIVO

And, yes, no one here has DVR, TIVO. Also, there's only one set and
there are not going to be any more. It doesn't help any to kill the
commercials during the local news and weather; it isn't going to get it
transmitted any earlier, and as soon as it and the sports are over, it
usually goes on mute again, anyway; the wife goes to bed and I read a
while longer. I may listen to the "Top Ten" list or the Leno
"Headlines" on Mondays, but other than that, "off" is the normal
position. (Oh, I forgot, Red Green usually gets his shot on Friday
night as does the local farm markets weekly review show.)

my best friend from 8th grade has a 2 year old. i traded some old
satellite stuff for a slightly used TIVO. friends hubby got nose out of
joint we just watch whats on when its on attitude.

I set up tivo with a push button for regular tv expecting the comments.

her 2 year old loves watching his favorite shows, he operates it great.
her hubby loves sports, replaying football plays, the family is now
firmly a TIVO one

she watches our 4 dogs anytime we go away, it was a nice thank you.

she asked me to remove the swich now they always watch TIVO

wrote:
And, yes, no one here has DVR, TIVO. Also, there's only one set and
there are not going to be any more. It doesn't help any to kill the
commercials during the local news and weather; it isn't going to get it
transmitted any earlier, and as soon as it and the sports are over, it
usually goes on mute again, anyway; the wife goes to bed and I read a
while longer. I may listen to the "Top Ten" list or the Leno
"Headlines" on Mondays, but other than that, "off" is the normal
position. (Oh, I forgot, Red Green usually gets his shot on Friday
night as does the local farm markets weekly review show.)

my best friend from 8th grade has a 2 year old. i traded some old
satellite stuff for a slightly used TIVO. friends hubby got nose out of
joint we just watch whats on when its on attitude.

I set up tivo with a push button for regular tv expecting the comments.

her 2 year old loves watching his favorite shows, he operates it great.
her hubby loves sports, replaying football plays, the family is now
firmly a TIVO one

she watches our 4 dogs anytime we go away, it was a nice thank you.

she asked me to remove the swich now they always watch TIVO

OK, how would/could it help with any of the issues _I_ have? None,
that I can see.

I've not had a 2-yr old for over 30 years and certainly don't expect
any more. But, for the most part, it is about the right intellectual
level of most tv content, I'll agree.

While I do enjoy sports to an extent, it's a case of can "take if or
leave it" and certainly not of sufficient interest that would play
stuff over and over or rewatch old games, etc. The wife's level of
interest is even less...

You seem to have a difficult time with the thought that somebody else's
interests and activities don't seem to mirror yours...

OK, how would/could it help with any of the issues _I_ have? None,
that I can see.

I've not had a 2-yr old for over 30 years and certainly don't expect
any more. But, for the most part, it is about the right intellectual
level of most tv content, I'll agree.

While I do enjoy sports to an extent, it's a case of can "take if or
leave it" and certainly not of sufficient interest that would play
stuff over and over or rewatch old games, etc. The wife's level of
interest is even less...

You seem to have a difficult time with the thought that somebody else's
interests and activities don't seem to mirror yours...

you see untill you or a good friend uses one you cant understand
how it really changes your life

prime time shows have nearly 20 minutes of commercials that I skip
thru, for each hour I get that time back to do other things, and avoid
hemmroid and other messages

hey that gal looked nice, run it back what did they say? run it
back

Phone rings just pause tv.

2 good similiar shows on at same time? why choose I record them both.

Now before you say VCRs do stuff like this NO VCR will allow you to
start waching a show thats already recording skip thru commercials and
catch up by the end

It REALLY changes how you look at tv forever!

wrote:
OK, how would/could it help with any of the issues _I_ have? None,
that I can see.

I've not had a 2-yr old for over 30 years and certainly don't expect
any more. But, for the most part, it is about the right intellectual
level of most tv content, I'll agree.

While I do enjoy sports to an extent, it's a case of can "take if or
leave it" and certainly not of sufficient interest that would play
stuff over and over or rewatch old games, etc. The wife's level of
interest is even less...

You seem to have a difficult time with the thought that somebody else's
interests and activities don't seem to mirror yours...

you see untill you or a good friend uses one you cant understand
how it really changes your life

Only can change your life it you let it. That, to me, is the
fundamental difference -- I have no intention or desire to change my
life to conform to something else -- I'm perfectly content as I am.


prime time shows have nearly 20 minutes of commercials that I skip
thru, for each hour I get that time back to do other things, and avoid
hemmroid and other messages

There are no prime time shows worth wasting 20 minutes on, anyway, so
what difference does it make?

hey that gal looked nice, run it back what did they say? run it
back

If it wasn't worth watching the first time, why would I want to see it
again?

Phone rings just pause tv.

Or let the answering machine pick it up, or ... No TV is worth enough
to make it of any real significance if it goes by unseen.

2 good similiar shows on at same time? why choose I record them both.

Hard to find even one good show on ever, what more two. Again, tastes
vary, and I have no idea what you watch or think "good", but as noted
previously, with something approaching 100 channels at Mom's apartment,
the likelihood of anything other than sports being anything I would
watch at any point in time during an evening visiting was almost
vanishingly small... If it hadn't been part of the basic rent at
the assissted living complex, I'm sure Mom would have been just as
happy without it as she was never a TV-watcher, either.

Now before you say VCRs do stuff like this NO VCR will allow you to
start waching a show thats already recording skip thru commercials and
catch up by the end

It REALLY changes how you look at tv forever!

Again, only if you let it. OK, I could record the 15 minutes of local
interest on the evening news and weather and cut out the 2-minute
segment between the two where Bucklin Tractor plays their commercial
and another one and then play it back in 13 minutes instead of 15. Or
start watching (really, only listening) five or ten minutes later in
the broadcast. Whoopee! If I'm watching the Friday "Farm and
Market", it's on local PBS and is straight-through.

I read a lot; this winter has been Churchill's four-volume history of
WWII. That got me into some other contemporary and posthumous
biographies of Churchill and others. Other than that, have been
working on a syllabus for a series of Adult CE courses on modern
physics and similar topics, hopefully to start teaching next fall at
the local Community College if I can find enough time to get it
completed by then. That's been a major brushup on events since I
finished grad school nearly 30 year ago, now. Then, there's the
routine farm recordkeeping and bookwork. And, just to round out the
schedule, there's a board or committee meeting on average of two or
three nights a week plus the associated effort required to prepare and
fulfill obligations of/to those organizations of which I'm an active
member. Overall, there simply isn't much time to devote to TV or need
to use TV for entertainment or a distraction. The wife has her own
agenda -- different, but not much (if any) less full...

wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:40:57 GMT, Rich256 wrote:

dpb wrote:
Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

....
Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled ...

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

....

I think the voltage for most light duty rotators is low. It comes from
the control unit. Only place you need 110 is at the control unit. I
have one that uses a light duty 4 wire ribbon cable from the control
unit to the rotator.

The voltage is 24 volts AC.
I made my own crude control some years ago.
It was just a 24V transformer and some switches. It's not rocket
science, just apply voltage to one wire and it turns the motor CCW and
to the other wire and it turns CW. Of course I did not have the
indicator inside, which is most of the circuitry in the factory made
controls. I used to have to look out the window to see where it was
pointed, or just turn till the best tv signal came in. Anyhow, the
voltage is 24 at least on the old Alliance rotors which was probably a
unit from the 1960's back then. For wire to the motor, I have used
plain thermostat cable, although the insulation dont last long on that
stuff in sunlight, so the flat 4 conductor stuff made for rotors is
probably better.

I dont blame the OP for his refusal to sign the contracts for
satellite service. I simply called a company to get a price. It was
way more than I was willing to pay for tv service. They were like
vultures, refused to listen when I said "Not Interested". They began
calling me contantly (I am on the DNC list). The filled my mailbox
with weekly junk, and harassed me to no end. I finally filed a
complaint with the FTC and my phone company. The calls stopped, but 4
or 5 years later I still keep getting mail from them. I often take
their mail and write "return to sender". Let them pay twice for their
junk mail.

Yes, it wouldn't be hard to make a controller that I could use from the
entrance point in the attic; the problem is the local interface in a
convenient place w/o having to pull new cable through the two story
exterior wall or w/o having to run a new cable into the basement to
come out through the foundation wall (poured concrete). But, is a
good thought...

On the harrassing/annoying solicitations, I'm still getting about 2 or
3 phone solicitors (all on the auto-dial robots) a day from Dish and
whoever else, too. It seems their "out" on this is that if you call
them once, that counts as the "business relationship" to let them off
the hook on the DNC list for actual prosecution for a couple years or
more...

dpb wrote:
wrote:
On 4 Jan 2007 08:42:16 -0800, "dpb" wrote:

who are still w/o power and will be for two weeks or more. Plus, have
water for the livestock and feed and didn't lose 450 head to
freezing/suffocation as fella' one county north...


Where are you located?

Being a farmer myself, could you explain in more detail what happened
to these livestock. I can understand freezing, but why did they
suffocate? I find this very disturbing, since I absolutely love my
horses like family. If we ever got a bad storm like that, I sure
would like to know what to or not to do. ...

I'll add a lot of the suffocation also comes when the herd up and try
to find shelter, they'll drift along w/ the wind and tend to head to
low spots like any gulleys or washouts that may provide some windbreak.
In high wind and snow that gets to belly high or deeper, it's also
easy for them to get down and then they're in real trouble. It's
virtually impossible for an individual to walk and stay upright in such
conditions, not much easier for them. The one single large loss I
mentioned was at a large feeding operation and I'm sure a lot of them
were in a particular lot or two and a bunch herded together and went
down.

A lot of the area, particularly E CO is open range. Most of W KS isn't
actually open range, but in such wind and snow, even barbed wire fences
are pretty much of no use once the snow drifts over them.

With the larger operations as here, though, there simply isn't any way
possible to have cover for thousands of cattle or even feasible to try
to collect them when scattered over large open range pastures. Believe
me, if there were any way, they certainly would as the economic loss is
sizable.

We are on the smaller end of operations running from 1-2000 head over
winter on wheat pasture depending on the year and have enough space at
the lots to accomodate roughly two-thirds that. Except for those on
rented pasture that may be upt to 20 miles away, we can usually manage
to bring most of ours into the corrals at the house if the forecast is
really dire. It's these kinds of decisions that are why I'm so
interested in truly localized weather -- the forecast for (and actual
event) even 30 miles away for this storm was drastically different than
for us.

Warning -- geezer story coming!!

The last blizzard here of this magnitude I went through personally was
'57. My brother and I were jr-high/early hi-school age. With our dad
we brought the cattle in off pasture to the corrals and finished the
morning the snow started shortly after noon. It was snowing heavily,
but no wind as we finished up unsaddling the horses, etc. out in the
barn, roughly 100 yards due east of the house. Just then, the wind hit
and went from near-calm to almost 60 mph in only a few minutes at
most--seemed instantaneous. Could see absolutely nothing, even your
hand at the end of your arm and barely able to stand leaning into the
wind. Dad tied the three of us together so as to not get separated and
we started off across the driveway to the house. We ended at the
chicken coop, having in that time traveled farther south than west,
even in our own driveway that we could have walked blind-folded from
directly to the yard gate! From that point we were able to follow the
yard fence and get back to the house. A few yards further south and we
would have missed any other outbuildings entirely and had a very
difficult time indeed in finding out precisely where we were. Could
have easily been lost on own farmstead. That one lasted from that
Saturday noon until late Monday before the wind abated. At that time,
we saw we had drifts that nearly covered the tops of 30-ft light poles.
That's about what this storm was for those in the brunt of it although
from what I've heard, it was more actual snow but not quite as strong
of winds.

End of geezer story...

dpb wrote:




On the harrassing/annoying solicitations, I'm still getting about 2 or
3 phone solicitors (all on the auto-dial robots) a day from Dish and
whoever else, too. It seems their "out" on this is that if you call
them once, that counts as the "business relationship" to let them off
the hook on the DNC list for actual prosecution for a couple years or
more...


You can specifically request that the calls be limited to actual need
such as billing and not sales solicitations.

On 6 Jan 2007 12:12:17 -0800, "dpb" wrote:


wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:40:57 GMT, Rich256 wrote:

dpb wrote:
Todd H. wrote:
"dpb" writes:

...
Is there a way to control a rotator from inside w/o running hard cable
from the set location all the way? Problem is antenna entry is from
under eaves at attic level of two-story and the TV location is on first
floor and there's no way easy enough to get a cable pulled ...

The last house I had with a roof antenna anda rotator had the rotator
cable run up the side of the house. It wasn't hard to get that routed
since the control location was in a room with an exterior wall.

...

I think the voltage for most light duty rotators is low. It comes from
the control unit. Only place you need 110 is at the control unit. I
have one that uses a light duty 4 wire ribbon cable from the control
unit to the rotator.

The voltage is 24 volts AC.
I made my own crude control some years ago.
It was just a 24V transformer and some switches. It's not rocket
science, just apply voltage to one wire and it turns the motor CCW and
to the other wire and it turns CW. Of course I did not have the
indicator inside, which is most of the circuitry in the factory made
controls. I used to have to look out the window to see where it was
pointed, or just turn till the best tv signal came in. Anyhow, the
voltage is 24 at least on the old Alliance rotors which was probably a
unit from the 1960's back then. For wire to the motor, I have used
plain thermostat cable, although the insulation dont last long on that
stuff in sunlight, so the flat 4 conductor stuff made for rotors is
probably better.

I dont blame the OP for his refusal to sign the contracts for
satellite service. I simply called a company to get a price. It was
way more than I was willing to pay for tv service. They were like
vultures, refused to listen when I said "Not Interested". They began
calling me contantly (I am on the DNC list). The filled my mailbox
with weekly junk, and harassed me to no end. I finally filed a
complaint with the FTC and my phone company. The calls stopped, but 4
or 5 years later I still keep getting mail from them. I often take
their mail and write "return to sender". Let them pay twice for their
junk mail.

Yes, it wouldn't be hard to make a controller that I could use from the
entrance point in the attic; the problem is the local interface in a
convenient place w/o having to pull new cable through the two story
exterior wall or w/o having to run a new cable into the basement to
come out through the foundation wall (poured concrete). But, is a
good thought...

On the harrassing/annoying solicitations, I'm still getting about 2 or
3 phone solicitors (all on the auto-dial robots) a day from Dish and
whoever else, too. It seems their "out" on this is that if you call
them once, that counts as the "business relationship" to let them off
the hook on the DNC list for actual prosecution for a couple years or
more...

Which is why you call them from a payphone if you want information.
Better yet, dont call them. I have yet to meet any of them who are
honest or reasonably priced. The dish network is one of the worst.

You have NO IDEA what a DVR does it changes how you watch TV FOREVER!

How could someone have no idea what a DVR is unless he had never had a
VCR?

dpb wrote:
wrote:
OK, how would/could it help with any of the issues _I_ have? None,
that I can see.

I've not had a 2-yr old for over 30 years and certainly don't expect
any more. But, for the most part, it is about the right intellectual
level of most tv content, I'll agree.

While I do enjoy sports to an extent, it's a case of can "take if or
leave it" and certainly not of sufficient interest that would play
stuff over and over or rewatch old games, etc. The wife's level of
interest is even less...

You seem to have a difficult time with the thought that somebody else's
interests and activities don't seem to mirror yours...

you see untill you or a good friend uses one you cant understand
how it really changes your life

Only can change your life it you let it. That, to me, is the
fundamental difference -- I have no intention or desire to change my
life to conform to something else -- I'm perfectly content as I am.


prime time shows have nearly 20 minutes of commercials that I skip
thru, for each hour I get that time back to do other things, and avoid
hemmroid and other messages

There are no prime time shows worth wasting 20 minutes on, anyway, so
what difference does it make?

hey that gal looked nice, run it back what did they say? run it
back

If it wasn't worth watching the first time, why would I want to see it
again?

Phone rings just pause tv.

Or let the answering machine pick it up, or ... No TV is worth enough
to make it of any real significance if it goes by unseen.

2 good similiar shows on at same time? why choose I record them both.

Hard to find even one good show on ever, what more two. Again, tastes
vary, and I have no idea what you watch or think "good", but as noted
previously, with something approaching 100 channels at Mom's apartment,
the likelihood of anything other than sports being anything I would
watch at any point in time during an evening visiting was almost
vanishingly small... If it hadn't been part of the basic rent at
the assissted living complex, I'm sure Mom would have been just as
happy without it as she was never a TV-watcher, either.

Now before you say VCRs do stuff like this NO VCR will allow you to
start waching a show thats already recording skip thru commercials and
catch up by the end

It REALLY changes how you look at tv forever!

Again, only if you let it. OK, I could record the 15 minutes of local
interest on the evening news and weather and cut out the 2-minute
segment between the two where Bucklin Tractor plays their commercial
and another one and then play it back in 13 minutes instead of 15. Or
start watching (really, only listening) five or ten minutes later in
the broadcast. Whoopee! If I'm watching the Friday "Farm and
Market", it's on local PBS and is straight-through.

I read a lot; this winter has been Churchill's four-volume history of
WWII. That got me into some other contemporary and posthumous
biographies of Churchill and others. Other than that, have been
working on a syllabus for a series of Adult CE courses on modern
physics and similar topics, hopefully to start teaching next fall at
the local Community College if I can find enough time to get it
completed by then. That's been a major brushup on events since I
finished grad school nearly 30 year ago, now. Then, there's the
routine farm recordkeeping and bookwork. And, just to round out the
schedule, there's a board or committee meeting on average of two or
three nights a week plus the associated effort required to prepare and
fulfill obligations of/to those organizations of which I'm an active
member. Overall, there simply isn't much time to devote to TV or need
to use TV for entertainment or a distraction. The wife has her own
agenda -- different, but not much (if any) less full...

gee for my family tv is entertainment and informational. while doing
other stuff, i watched a documentary on the start of the spanish
american war over sinking of the battleship maine in cuba. it wasnt
torpeoded, war as mistake coal bunker blew up. also watched seconds
from disaster about the final columbia flight and some general
enterainment. while out for dinner and new printer recorded CBS
national news, watched it when we got home, following war and democrat
take over of congress carefully

all whiole working on networking computers and printers, lots of dead
ime on this project, waiting for reboot etc.

you know if you had a TIVO or satellite tv you might find some shows
worth watching.......

some day when your around it, you too will see the value. the device is
a tool for watching tv, just like a shovel is for digging a ditch

Instead of a rotator, you could add another antenna pointed to the other
station, run the coax from it and the other one to a selector switch
inside. My grandparents'house in upstate NY had a setup like that in the
50's-60's. Larry

wrote:
dpb wrote:
....
gee for my family tv is entertainment and informational. ...

Your choice, my choice is different.

lp13-30 wrote:
Instead of a rotator, you could add another antenna pointed to the other
station, run the coax from it and the other one to a selector switch
inside. My grandparents'house in upstate NY had a setup like that in the
50's-60's. Larry

Interesting alternative, thanks...I'll first find out if it appears the
other is even accessible w/ the new antenna, then decide what to do.
It looks like it would be about same $$-wise; only real potential
problem I see is I'm not sure the antenna tower has the strength w/o
some significant modification to handle the extra weight against the W
KS winds so I might choose the rotor route for that reason alone.

wrote:
....
hey that gal looked nice, run it back what did they say? run it
back

Phone rings just pause tv.
....

I think it just dawned on me the underlying difference here -- it's
owing to age, most likely. While I spent my technical career on
computers from the old tube- and discrete solid-state beasties "in the
beginning" to today's desktops and workstations, the fact is that
fundamentally I'm still a paper person as most of my generation are. I
see the same dichotomy with the current students at the Community
College -- everything for them seems to have to be electronic.

My answer to the two points above which are essentially like talking
with/observing the students are "turn the page back" and "stick the
bookmark in", respectively.

So, we geezers had those capabilities long before TIVO (or even TV) was
invented...

As I noted in a response a little bit ago just before this struck me,
you chose/prefer the electronic medium, I choose and am much more
comfortable w/ the printed still for this kind of information and for
my entertainment I still really prefer the mental images generated from
the printed word over the direct picture of the movie screen.

On 4 Jan 2007 15:02:42 -0800, dpb wrote:

But, it's an idea others who are more interested in programming and
less interested in the one item of near local weather and storm weather
that is my primary interest would probably find the way to go.

If local weather and storm info is your primary concern, I'd suggest that you
purchase a weather radio that you can program for your local area. Just got
one from Radio Shack for about $60 and it's much better than the old one it
replaced - no codes to enter, you just choose your state and county from
menus and it'll provide you with a list of surrounding counties to choose
from. You can, of course, manually enter the county codes if you like. The
radio I have in the storm shelter is not as old as the one I just replaced
and it has a USB port to program the codes (similar menu choices but on the
computer) - I like that option just as much as the new radio.

The radio is nice since it will provide warning without you having to turn it
on - a signal from the NWS activates it. Since the NWS activates the radio, I
highly recommend the programmable ones as opposed to those that come on
whenever they receive the activation signal - programmable means that they
only activate when the code for the particular county(ies) in the list you
set up is received.

If reception is not good, you can tap into the antenna wire for the TV and
rig it to the radio - takes a RCA jack on mine, which I rigged from coax to
an old piece of speaker wire that has a jack on it. Of course, that means
that if the weather's bad and the antenna is torn down, you may not be able
to get a good signal, but you'll have been warned of the bad weather.

Although reception on the new radio is good, I have both it and the one in
the storm cellar (which gets very poor reception in there) hooked into my TV
antenna (which has an amplifier) and they get excellent reception. Just make
a point to pay attention from time to time on Wednesdays at about 11:30AM for
the test to insure that you're getting proper reception - the radio should
activate and, if you have the voice option turned on, you'll hear the test
message.

I don't know how good NWS coverage is in KS (I'm in GA and coverage is very
good), but considering how common severe weather is in that part of the
country, I'd think it would be good.

Anyway, you have another option to look at...

Later, Mike
(substitute strickland in the obvious location to reply directly)
-----------------------------------


Please send all email as text - HTML is too hard to decipher as text.

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 22:12:34 -0600, (lp13-30) wrote:

Instead of a rotator, you could add another antenna pointed to the other
station, run the coax from it and the other one to a selector switch
inside. My grandparents'house in upstate NY had a setup like that in the
50's-60's. Larry

My grandparents (on a farm in east Texas) did that too. One channel
(7) was in a very different direction than the others (3,6,12).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

I don't have any specific URLs, but look for news stories on the
storm(s) of last two week(s) in CO and KS. I've not looked to see what
sort of coverage the Denver Post gave to the second storm that mostly
bypassed them after the Christmas week bullet on the airport, but would
be a start. Wichita Eagle, Hutchinson, (KS) News, Garden City and
Dodge City, KS, Lamar and LaJunta (CO) are possibilities. We take the
Wichita paper and they've had some coverage, but certainly not on the
details of the livestock operations although do mention numbers and
general problems. Not had the newest High Plains Journal, a weekly ag
paper to see what their coverage is, but their site is at www.hpj.com
and might be of some interest anyway.


If I were you, I would check on what your local stations plans are for
DTV (digital television conversion). The current NTSC analog/hybrid
TV system as we know it is scheduled for shutdown on Feb. 17, 2009
(This does not necessarily apply to translators, but it does apply to
full power stations). You could be making a big investment for
nothing. You will also need to buy a new tv or a DTV signal
convertor.

Over the air reception of terrrestrial DTV signals is possible. You
may need a different antenna though and the TV stations new digital
transmitters may not be located at the same site as their current
transmitters. Every locality will be somewhat different.

Here is a link for more info:

http://www.dtv.gov/DTV_booklet.pdf

Note that DTV does not necessarily mean HDTV (High Definition
Television). The stations are allocated the channel and the
bandwidth. It's up to them how they decide to use it.

Just my opinion here... With all of these changes coming in the next
two years, the satellite dish doesn't sound like a bad option.

You say you can't get a clear shot of the southern sky. Are there
mountains in Wichita? The look angle is pretty high and unless you
have trees everywhere on your property, it should be possible in most
situations to get a clear shot at the satellite.

Beachcomber