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You say you can't get a clear shot of the southern sky. Are there
mountains in Wichita? The look angle is pretty high and unless you
have trees everywhere on your property, it should be possible in most
situations to get a clear shot at the satellite.

Beachcomber


lots of people look at the angle of the dish arm and believe that angle
would have to clear the trees, but thats not true the actual angle is a
lot higher

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Michael Strickland wrote:
On 4 Jan 2007 15:02:42 -0800, dpb wrote:

....
If local weather and storm info is your primary concern, I'd suggest that you
purchase a weather radio that you can program for your local area. ...


Yes, good and valid point and we have that, too. Is of most use for
spring/summer weather (the tornado threat), of course. The tv weather
is a different kind of information -- it's more long range and planning
as opposed to the instantaneous rapid response. They do break in much
more readily and follow severe weather outbreaks for regions under
severe t-storm/tornado warnings much more than in areas that aren't so
prone, though. That is an advantage of the repeaters,
actually--Wichita itself can go on regular programming while Dodge
and/or Garden can make their decision.

I don't know how good NWS coverage is in KS (I'm in GA and coverage is very
good), but considering how common severe weather is in that part of the
country, I'd think it would be good.


We're in an area still reasonably populated (by farther west standards,
anyway) and so NWS coverage is pretty good. Owing to the severe
weather threat in spring and summer, that portion is really quite good
(we're roughly equidistant from Wichita as we are to Norman, OK, the
center of the Severe Weather operations). And, given that the area is
so heavily agricultural in nature, when you get away from the
city-casts targeted to Wichita itself, they're really pretty good in
providing the kind of information farmers and ranchers need. For
Wichita itself, it's pretty much the same as it was in Knoxville, TN --
they're only interested in whether it's going to rain on the weekend or
not.

As for storm protection, the house has full basement w/ poured concrete
walls and heavy flooring that serves the purpose. We keep it supplied
and retreat to it occasionally -- typically two-three times per year
for a short period, maybe; most generally when it's after dark and so
getting "snuck up on" unawares is more likely.

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Which is why you call them from a payphone if you want information.
Better yet, dont call them. I have yet to meet any of them who are
honest or reasonably priced. The dish network is one of the worst.


dish has between 12 to 14 million subscribers, apparently you are in a
minority

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Beachcomber wrote:
If I were you, I would check on what your local stations plans are for
DTV (digital television conversion). The current NTSC analog/hybrid
TV system as we know it is scheduled for shutdown on Feb. 17, 2009
(This does not necessarily apply to translators, but it does apply to
full power stations). You could be making a big investment for
nothing. You will also need to buy a new tv or a DTV signal
convertor.

Over the air reception of terrrestrial DTV signals is possible. You
may need a different antenna though and the TV stations new digital
transmitters may not be located at the same site as their current
transmitters. Every locality will be somewhat different.


We're only talking $100 or so for an antenna, looks like might be maybe
$200 max for the rotor w/ the IR repeater, so it's not a huge
investment, certainly. If I do forego the rotor, not at all bad.

The 2009 date is still two years away and I personally kinda' doubt it
will actually come to pass then, anyway, but whatever is available then
to deal with it will undoubtedly be better and cheaper and less of a
risk then than now. I think it highly unlikely the locations of the
translators will change (as in zero probability -- they cover the area
now and there are now other sizable population centers other than where
they currently are and overall the area population is declining, not
increasing, except for a few counties.

....

Just my opinion here... With all of these changes coming in the next
two years, the satellite dish doesn't sound like a bad option.


I think it just as good an option to wait and see what actually
transpires. (Best laid plans, and all... )

You say you can't get a clear shot of the southern sky. Are there
mountains in Wichita? The look angle is pretty high and unless you
have trees everywhere on your property, it should be possible in most
situations to get a clear shot at the satellite.


There are the Wichita Mountains, but that's different...

We're actually 250 miles roughly from Wichita itself, but that's where
the main stations for the translators are located. And, yes, it's
pretty non-mountainous. I used to tell folks in TN our definition of a
hill was couldn't see car coming down the road, and a BIG hill was
couldn't see a combine. It's actually slightly closer straight-line
distance to Denver and/or Amarillo than Wichita.

That isn't exactly what I said -- what I said was the current antenna
mounting location didn't have clear access which is a different
limitation. I'm not particularly interested in moving the antenna
tower at present and have an aversion against mounting stuff on the
house and the pumphouse which would be a convenient location for power
and orientation is far enough from the house (at least until perhaps
new technology might eliminate it) would need additional equipment plus
the effort of burying feed line, etc., as I don't want any more
overhead wires that it just isn't an effort I want to invest in at
least at the present time...

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"dpb" writes:

Warning -- geezer story coming!!


Let's be careful with the geezer designation -- some of us
resemble that remark.

The '48 storm kept us housebound for a week in Limon.

I understand the '46 storm was even worse.
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On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:32:26 GMT, (Beachcomber)
wrote:


I don't have any specific URLs, but look for news stories on the
storm(s) of last two week(s) in CO and KS. I've not looked to see what
sort of coverage the Denver Post gave to the second storm that mostly
bypassed them after the Christmas week bullet on the airport, but would
be a start. Wichita Eagle, Hutchinson, (KS) News, Garden City and
Dodge City, KS, Lamar and LaJunta (CO) are possibilities. We take the
Wichita paper and they've had some coverage, but certainly not on the
details of the livestock operations although do mention numbers and
general problems. Not had the newest High Plains Journal, a weekly ag
paper to see what their coverage is, but their site is at
www.hpj.com
and might be of some interest anyway.


If I were you, I would check on what your local stations plans are for
DTV (digital television conversion). The current NTSC analog/hybrid
TV system as we know it is scheduled for shutdown on Feb. 17, 2009
(This does not necessarily apply to translators, but it does apply to
full power stations). You could be making a big investment for
nothing. You will also need to buy a new tv or a DTV signal
convertor.


Some may care that that law has no effect on cable and satellite, just
(terrestrial) broadcasts.

Over the air reception of terrrestrial DTV signals is possible. You
may need a different antenna


Probably only if your existing antenna doesn't get UHF, which is
needed for most new stations.

though and the TV stations new digital
transmitters may not be located at the same site as their current
transmitters. Every locality will be somewhat different.

Here is a link for more info:

http://www.dtv.gov/DTV_booklet.pdf

Note that DTV does not necessarily mean HDTV (High Definition
Television).


True, although they ARE digital, and still much better than the analog
broadcasts.

The stations are allocated the channel and the
bandwidth. It's up to them how they decide to use it.

Just my opinion here... With all of these changes coming in the next
two years, the satellite dish doesn't sound like a bad option.

You say you can't get a clear shot of the southern sky. Are there
mountains in Wichita? The look angle is pretty high and unless you
have trees everywhere on your property, it should be possible in most
situations to get a clear shot at the satellite.


I know someone with the dish mounted on the front of the house,
looking over it. This avoids the problems of the tall trees in the
back (south) yard.

Beachcomber

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov
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Everett M. Greene wrote:
"dpb" writes:

Warning -- geezer story coming!!


Let's be careful with the geezer designation -- some of us
resemble that remark.

The '48 storm kept us housebound for a week in Limon.

I understand the '46 storm was even worse.


VBG Yeah, I'm a geezer-in-making, more accurately, probably...

I no longer get carded or asked about senior discounts anywhere,
though, including the discounts for the local high school athletic
events -- about the last holdout I had, I think...

I'd heard of those two, both just ahead of my being old enough to
recall. How bad the were here I don't know offhand. You guys
typically get more snow up there than we, anyhow, but when it decides
to, it can be pretty nasty most anywhere out here...

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Some may care that that law has no effect on cable and satellite, just
(terrestrial) broadcasts.


I wouldn't exactly say no effect. The standards for tv set reception
are changing, regardless of whether your signal comes from antenna,
satellite dish, or cable. The NTSC method of delivery over what has
been known as VHS CH 2-13 is going away. The UHF band 14-83 is being
allocated to the new DTV Transmitters. Currently, cable and
satellite boxes use these frequencies (primarily CH3 or CH4) to output
a RF signal to many NTSC TV sets. (In some cases, the more modern
sets receive baseband NTSC video and seperate (stereo) audio. The
new demodulated TV signals will be all digital and the sets will be
all digital.

Certain cable and satellite companies may elect to keep current
equipment and provide you with a convertor box. In many cases, you
might be able to keep your existing TV set or DVR. It's too early for
them to announce their plans just yet, but you can also expect a push
from them to get you to upgraded technology.

Low cost convertors are predicted to be available. Most people will
probably wind up buying a new TV set if they want to receive all
channels + new features. The big manufactuers are already licking
their chops! Imagine a nation of 300 million people changing to a
new TV system with a specific day deadline.

Beachcomber





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On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 03:35:35 GMT, (Beachcomber)
wrote:


Some may care that that law has no effect on cable and satellite, just
(terrestrial) broadcasts.


I wouldn't exactly say no effect.


No direct effect, and what effect there is will be delayed. Often by
several years.

Also, cable companies will be getting much of their stuff from
satellite, which isn't directly effected by the law either.

The standards for tv set reception
are changing, regardless of whether your signal comes from antenna,
satellite dish, or cable. The NTSC method of delivery over what has
been known as VHS CH 2-13 is going away.


Doesn't that apply only to OTA broadcasts?

BTW, one of the ATSC stations around here broadcasts on channel 10
right now. Maybe that's temporary.

The UHF band 14-83 is being
allocated to the new DTV Transmitters. Currently, cable and
satellite boxes use these frequencies (primarily CH3 or CH4) to output
a RF signal to many NTSC TV sets.


Sometimes necessary, but should be avoided when possible because of
the lower quality. This should become less common with time, since
newer sets usually have A/V inputs but not because of the law.

(In some cases, the more modern
sets receive baseband NTSC video and seperate (stereo) audio. The
new demodulated TV signals will be all digital and the sets will be
all digital.

Certain cable and satellite companies may elect to keep current
equipment and provide you with a convertor box.


There's no need for a converter box (when you didn't already need one)
unless they (the cable company) changed their equipment.

In many cases, you
might be able to keep your existing TV set or DVR. It's too early for
them to announce their plans just yet, but you can also expect a push
from them to get you to upgraded technology.


Probably so, it's just that the law doesn't require them to.

Low cost convertors are predicted to be available. Most people will
probably wind up buying a new TV set if they want to receive all
channels + new features.


Most of those that can afford it. There are those who can't.

The big manufactuers are already licking
their chops! Imagine a nation of 300 million people changing to a
new TV system with a specific day deadline.


Which has already been put off several times. Why would you be so sure
it won't be again?

Beachcomber




--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov


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congress passed a law giving most people a free converter....

the old saying goes, dont mess with tv or beer, keep the voters happy.

the turn of if and when it occurs will have minimal effect on most folks

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On 7 Jan 2007 10:40:36 -0800, dpb wrote:

Yes, good and valid point and we have that, too. Is of most use for
spring/summer weather (the tornado threat), of course.


Same here, although it was going off this past Friday and yesterday afternoon
and evening. Got kinda rough - particularly for this time of year - just to
the south and southeast of us. Severe T-storms and tornados are our major
threat also, but not nearly as bad as I understand your area is - tropical
systems sometimes cause some grief with flooding, winds and severe T-storms.
Rarely get much snow, 3" is a lot generally, but did get 16" locally back in
the early '90s, most I've ever seen up close and personal. Been lucky for
quite a few years now and haven't had any serious ice. Certainly hope yall
get thawed out soon - been there and done that so I can relate to the
situation out there.

As for storm protection, the house has full basement w/ poured concrete
walls and heavy flooring that serves the purpose.


Our cellar was an accident. We had to move the house foundation, when digging
the basement, to avoid blasting a rock formation we ran into. That forced us
to pour a full-height wall to support the front porch since it supports part
of the roof and we'd already dug full depth there. Underneath the porch is a
room about 5X20 with poured walls and ceiling (porch floor is 4" of concrete
with tile on it), soil on 3 sides (poured wall on the 4th) and only a couple
of inches that isn't the floor of the porch above ground.

We keep it supplied
and retreat to it occasionally -- typically two-three times per year
for a short period, maybe; most generally when it's after dark and so
getting "snuck up on" unawares is more likely.


The radio I have won't let you get snuck up on - have the volume set pretty
low and it'll still wake the soundest sleepers around here. I really like not
having to have the radio turned on (listening to the broadcast) in order to
get the alerts - beats any other method I know of in that respect.

Not sure what you're trying to get from the TV weather that isn't available
via NWS or The Weather Channel online or the weather radio in emergencies.
Here the TV weather long-range forecast is pretty much whether or not it's
gonna rain and the hi/lo for each day. They do show fronts and High/Low
pressure areas, but that info is readily available from other sources - a
trip to the NWS or Weather Channel website can provide that info and more.
Never been to your part of the country, so I have no idea of what's available
locally, but other places I've been are very similar to here, with some minor
variations like adding tide info near the coast. Nothing to justify the cost
of a rotator. I'd just point the antenna to the station that provides the
most useful information and leave it be, depending on a weather radio for
emergency information and checking online if I wanted an immediate longer
range forecast than what I could get from punching the button on the weather
radio.

Mind you, I don't advocate dropping TV altogether, just don't see a need for
it when obtaining weather information. I'm not referring to any agricultural
programming available from the TV when I'm talking about weather - we have
(or at least had, not in the ag business so I haven't looked in quite a few
years) some of that here too with crop/animal prices and general long-term (2
months IIRC) weather projections along with other ag info on the local PBS
stations. Regular advertizing stations dropped that stuff when I was a kid -
north GA is just too "citified", probably still carry some of it in the more
agricultural, southern part of the state.

FYI, In case you're not aware of them. There are a couple of browser add-ons
that you might find useful in monitoring the weather. One can be obtained
from the Weather Channel website and (I think) works on all browsers, the
other is called ForecastFox and works on Mozilla browsers. Both put icons at
a location you choose in your browser and are highly configurable as to how
many days out they show and what information is shown. You can have NWS
alerts automatically pop up a clickable link that will take you to the text
of the alert if you like. Mine shows quite a few alerts and statements that I
wouldn't want to have the radio sound an alarm for - but it is possible to
have the radio do it if you like...

Also, at least locally here (may not be true of your area), the NWS supports
satellite reporting stations all around the state which can provide things
like soil temp at several depths, rainfall, UV levels, wind, and such. These
are automated readings and were limited to within the last 24 hours last I
looked, but I believe that they were planning on adding archival info. You
can set a link directly to the site(s) once you find them - go to NWS site
and shop around for locations.


Later, Mike
(substitute strickland in the obvious location to reply directly)
-----------------------------------


Please send all email as text - HTML is too hard to decipher as text.



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Michael Strickland wrote:
On 7 Jan 2007 10:40:36 -0800, dpb wrote:

Yes, good and valid point and we have that, too. Is of most use for
spring/summer weather (the tornado threat), of course.


Same here, although it was going off this past Friday and yesterday afternoon
and evening. Got kinda rough - particularly for this time of year - just to
the south and southeast of us. Severe T-storms and tornados are our major
threat also, but not nearly as bad as I understand your area is - tropical
systems sometimes cause some grief with flooding, winds and severe T-storms.
Rarely get much snow, 3" is a lot generally, but did get 16" locally back in
the early '90s, most I've ever seen up close and personal. Been lucky for
quite a few years now and haven't had any serious ice. Certainly hope yall
get thawed out soon - been there and done that so I can relate to the
situation out there.


I saw that -- the result of the same front after it passed thru here.
The temperature gradient and lift were actually sufficient there were
some t-storms here ahead of the ice/snow event altho nothing more than
some hail.

We're just to the west of the real "tornado alley", but there are at
least some in the area every year. It's a little farther
east/southeast where it's a little wetter on average than here where
the heaviest concentration are spawned. Our major events here are
likely to be large hail. Last 2-3 years have been pretty high numbers,
but no monsters. About 3 miles south last summer was closest although
town got a couple of hits each of the last two years, they were
relatively small also. Took a few buildings and (as always) a trailer
park. Lost the old barn at the County Historical Museum, though,
sadly. It was a landmark barn that had been moved to the site from a
early farmstead but was too heavily damaged to try to salvage.

We're pretty well de-iced here now, but the folks w/ all the snow and
w/o power are still hurtin'. And, it's a real problem getting in to
continue to feed/water cattle and will be for quite some time. Since
there was so much precipitation where it has melted some and/or
combined w/ the snow they're having to use farmers' tractors on every
pole truck and pickup/service vehicle to pull them from one pole to the
next or even, in some places, down the road while trying to
rebuild/repair lines. As only one example, there was one stretch of 25
miles with not a single pole left standing and something over 10,000
poles down altogether in KS alone. It'll take a while.

....
for a short period, maybe; most generally when it's after dark and so
getting "snuck up on" unawares is more likely.


The radio I have won't let you get snuck up on - have the volume set pretty
low and it'll still wake the soundest sleepers around here. I really like not
having to have the radio turned on (listening to the broadcast) in order to
get the alerts - beats any other method I know of in that respect.


Yes, that's the advantage and we rely on it as well for such alerts. I
was simply meaning when already know there's weather around and it's
dark enough to not be able to spot an approaching funnel if there were
one -- otherwise, we're flat enough that most of the time you've got
clear enough view to know.

Not sure what you're trying to get from the TV weather that isn't available
via NWS or The Weather Channel online or the weather radio in emergencies.
Here the TV weather long-range forecast is pretty much whether or not it's
gonna rain and the hi/lo for each day. They do show fronts and High/Low
pressure areas, but that info is readily available from other sources - a
trip to the NWS or Weather Channel website can provide that info and more.

....

As I noted in a reply earlier, two things -- one, since it is an
agricultural area, the weather segment is longer and far more detailed
than in other locations, particularly urban. What they do is to
provide the analysis of their projections and best guesstimates of
likelihoods of what the fronts are really going to do and when. For
winter weather, this is significant in trying to make a decision on
whether to actually move cattle, for example. That's no minor
undertaking that can be done in a few minutes or an hour, even.
Bringing them to the house necessitates feeding as well as the actual
moving, then they've got to be moved back afterwards, another
significant effort. If it does storm significantly, it's likely to be
worth the effort. But, working them and then it all doesn't happen
after all is a pretty sizable effort and the actual act of moving them
is both stressful to them and alone may cause weight loss and/or
subsequent susceptibility to sickness. There's a financial cost
associated with that as well as that which might occur from the the
result of the storm if just leave them to weather it as best the can.
Got's to try to judge what's the better choice of the two, neither very
good. All the info you can get is better.

As I think I also noted before, the difference in what happened in this
storm was drastic from an area of about 60 mile width of rain-only to
the east/south and almost all snow/blizzard north/west. We were just
about in the middle of that. The difference between what is on the NWS
site and feeds is they provide the basic data and forecasts and
information and concentrate the forecasts primarily, it seems, on
travel impacts and the like. The TV weather guys take that information
and expand the detail of what the present via these repeaters and as
well as the same information really do try to work out the variations
in these situations. This last one they indicated pretty high
confidence in the location of the snow/ice/rain line and I decided to
not move any based on that assessment. If I'd relied only on the NWS,
I'm not sure which way I'd have gone. Turns out their projections
actually hit it quite accurately this time and not doing anything was
by far the better choice.

TWC is useless here, really, for anything other than knowing what is
happening elsewhere. It is a long-range feed and has no local presence
other than the automated time/temperature/etc., scrolling feed.

Mind you, I don't advocate dropping TV altogether, just don't see a need for
it when obtaining weather information. I'm not referring to any agricultural
programming available from the TV when I'm talking about weather - we have
(or at least had, not in the ag business so I haven't looked in quite a few
years) some of that here too with crop/animal prices and general long-term (2
months IIRC) weather projections along with other ag info on the local PBS
stations. Regular advertizing stations dropped that stuff when I was a kid -
north GA is just too "citified", probably still carry some of it in the more
agricultural, southern part of the state.


Yep, that's the way it is except in places such as here where it hasn't
yet become urban-dominated. I was in Knoxville, TN, area for 20-some
years until returning 7-8 years ago so am fully aware of the
difference. If were were just outside Wichita instead of in far
western KS, it would be the same thing and I would have no other
alternative but those you mention, either. We're still where the major
advertisers are the farm implement and seed and ag-chem dealers, etc.,
so that programming is still available. If, as others have suggested,
I were to go to the satellite only, then I'd go back to the only
"local" stations being those in Wichita, not the translators and the
city-slant is what I would get and if there were all there were, I'd
agree with you completely it wouldn't be of any incremental value over
other sources.

FYI, In case you're not aware of them. There are a couple of browser add-ons
that you might find useful in monitoring the weather. One can be obtained
from the Weather Channel website and (I think) works on all browsers, the
other is called ForecastFox and works on Mozilla browsers. Both put icons at
a location you choose in your browser and are highly configurable as to how
many days out they show and what information is shown. You can have NWS
alerts automatically pop up a clickable link that will take you to the text
of the alert if you like. Mine shows quite a few alerts and statements that I
wouldn't want to have the radio sound an alarm for - but it is possible to
have the radio do it if you like...

Also, at least locally here (may not be true of your area), the NWS supports
satellite reporting stations all around the state which can provide things
like soil temp at several depths, rainfall, UV levels, wind, and such. These
are automated readings and were limited to within the last 24 hours last I
looked, but I believe that they were planning on adding archival info. You
can set a link directly to the site(s) once you find them - go to NWS site
and shop around for locations.


Yes, those are of some use but again serve a somewhat different
purpose.

The real difference and what I want is that actual inference the local
guys make and provide through these translators. And, yes, it is far
different in what they actually do than what most are used to. They're
the meterological staff of the Wichita stations and are in Wichita, but
as well as watch the metro area, they know they have these repeaters in
the western areas that aren't well served otherwise, and they monitor
events carefully and in major events like these aren't afraid to
interrupt if it warrants it but more importantly, know the importance
and timing required for farmers and ranchers to be able to take
preventive action and understand the consequences of their
recommendations/forecasts as outline above. You don't get that from
NWS or TWC and like haller says, "if you ain't seen it, you can't
understand" And, of course, unless one were intimately involved and
affected, it wouldn't be of any interest anyway.

But, in the end, I'm just interested on top of all the rest!

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Michael Strickland wrote:
....
...Been lucky for
quite a few years now and haven't had any serious ice. Certainly hope yall
get thawed out soon - been there and done that so I can relate to the
situation out there.

....

Just saw this on the NWS "behind the scenes" discussion of this
AM...not exactly what we're needing for the weekend...

"it appears that low level moisture will really begin interacting with
the front over southwest Kansas late Friday. Will raise probability of
precipitation in the western County Warning Area Friday afternoon and
the rest of the County Warning Area Friday night...Saturday will
increase to chance probability of precipitation with more upward
adjustment likely in coming forecast updates should things appear to
remain "on track". As far as precipitation type GOES...think initially
in this kind of setup...will be looking at low level lifting mechanisms
so freezing drizzle/snow flurries will be the primary concern
initially. The airmass will be so cold that -10c isotherm will be
overtaking much of the County Warning Area such that freezing drizzle
would become flurries at some point. For Saturday...as it stands
now...think any elevated warm layer would be just over the southeastern
County Warning Area (per gfs) and any mixed precipitation would be over
south central Kansas. This is still in the 120-144h time frame
though...so one must be very careful in reading too much into the
individual model runs. Will keep the snow going for Saturday over much
of the County Warning Area...but will entertain a mix of sleet in the
southeast. Given the impressive Arctic nature of
the airmass involved...and with deep southerly flow atop it...there
will likely be a zone of ice somewhere in the Great Plains...which is
something to watch closely...but at this point it appears any ice
threat would be quite a bit farther east this go around..."

At least if he's borne out, perhaps we'll miss the ice this time.

CMS was by about noon to make permanent repair to the line that broke
just north of the house they put a temporary splice in last Sunday.
Said I was surprised they had crews to spare for a non-emergency repair
given the rest of the situation. Seems they've kept a few crews in our
area and sent the rest but while it's good they're trying to fix all
known week spots before this next round this coming weekend to try to
forestall problems if can. Seems like good idea, certainly. As was
leaving them to their task, one of them commented "But, we've no
shortage of places to go!"

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Default Outside antenna rotator question...

On 8 Jan 2007 06:59:55 -0800, "
wrote:

congress passed a law giving most people a free converter....


I thought that was "up to" a specific amount, so the converter is free
only if any are sold for that amount or less.

the old saying goes, dont mess with tv or beer, keep the voters happy.

the turn of if and when it occurs will have minimal effect on most folks


Note that if a converter is required, this won't me minimal. However
it will in many (most?) cases, since a lot of people won't need
converters (maybe they're watching cable).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov


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Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Jan 2007 06:59:55 -0800, "
wrote:

congress passed a law giving most people a free converter....


I thought that was "up to" a specific amount, so the converter is free
only if any are sold for that amount or less.

the old saying goes, dont mess with tv or beer, keep the voters happy.

the turn of if and when it occurs will have minimal effect on most folks


Note that if a converter is required, this won't me minimal. However
it will in many (most?) cases, since a lot of people won't need
converters (maybe they're watching cable).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


most folks have a tv somewhere thats not on sat or cable even when they
are customers of those providers

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov


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Default Outside antenna rotator question...

On 8 Jan 2007 09:04:44 -0800, dpb wrote:

Yes, that's the advantage and we rely on it as well for such alerts. I
was simply meaning when already know there's weather around and it's
dark enough to not be able to spot an approaching funnel if there were
one -- otherwise, we're flat enough that most of the time you've got
clear enough view to know.


I understand now. Too hilly here to see anything until it's on you, so rely
heavily on the radio.

As I noted in a reply earlier, two things -- one, since it is an
agricultural area, the weather segment is longer and far more detailed

SNIPPED for brevity
recommendations/forecasts as outline above. You don't get that from
NWS or TWC and like haller says, "if you ain't seen it, you can't
understand" And, of course, unless one were intimately involved and
affected, it wouldn't be of any interest anyway.


I now understand about the local broadcasts. You jogged my memory of how it
was when I was a kid and they spent a lot of time with the weather. There
were (maybe still are) some programs that deal exclusively with agriculture
and they spent much of the program discussing projections, but mainly related
to crop conditions here as livestock wasn't so prevalent. There's also a
program on PBS dealing with aviation weather - quite interesting, but not
particularly useful to me.

TWC is useless here also, but the website has useful information - mainly
maps and radars. I was referring to the website for them and NWS and to using
the information from the sites to work things out yourself - I know from
experience that if you do it long enough you can get pretty darned good at
predicting what's going to happen. From what you've written in previous
posts, it would appear that you, like me, are no spring chicken and probably
have quite a bit of weather knowledge built up over the years that can be
applied to some basic tools like front movement forecasts and such to work
out a pretty good assessment of what the weather's gonna do. I suspect that
you probably do something very similar to that already with the local TV
broadcasts.

Still, I think that from what you've said, I'd try turning the antenna to the
new direction and see whether or not it's worthwhile to point in that
direction. If so, and it's only 2 directions, I'd just get 2 antennas and do
as suggested in other posts, mounting one pointing each direction. Rotator is
fine - got one myself - but can be a bit of a pain if you're trying to
fine-tune a weak station and it has to be pointed *just so* to pick it up.
Something else to consider, every time you add a gadget, it's something else
that can break.

But, in the end, I'm just interested on top of all the rest!


Same here. Always been interested in weather, even had a little weather
station when I was growing up. Always figured it had something to do with
growing up in the country instead of the city as I have an interest in most
things in the outdoors.


Later, Mike
(substitute strickland in the obvious location to reply directly)
-----------------------------------


Please send all email as text - HTML is too hard to decipher as text.



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Default Outside antenna rotator question...

On 8 Jan 2007 15:44:21 -0800, "
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Jan 2007 06:59:55 -0800, "
wrote:

congress passed a law giving most people a free converter....


I thought that was "up to" a specific amount, so the converter is free
only if any are sold for that amount or less.

the old saying goes, dont mess with tv or beer, keep the voters happy.

the turn of if and when it occurs will have minimal effect on most folks


Note that if a converter is required, this won't me minimal. However
it will in many (most?) cases, since a lot of people won't need
converters (maybe they're watching cable).


most folks have a tv somewhere thats not on sat or cable even when they
are customers of those providers


As well as those on cable/sat, TVs they can easily stop using.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov
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dpb dpb is offline
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Default Outside antenna rotator question...


Michael Strickland wrote:
On 8 Jan 2007 09:04:44 -0800, dpb wrote:

....
I now understand about the local broadcasts. You jogged my memory ...

....
the information from the sites to work things out yourself - I know from
experience that if you do it long enough you can get pretty darned good at
predicting what's going to happen. From what you've written in previous
posts, it would appear that you, like me, are no spring chicken and probably
have quite a bit of weather knowledge built up over the years that can be
applied to some basic tools like front movement forecasts and such to work
out a pretty good assessment of what the weather's gonna do. I suspect that
you probably do something very similar to that already with the local TV
broadcasts.


I agree one can tell quite a bit from the data, but it's fairly time
consuming to do so in detail although I can pretty much tell the big
picture. One can't predict where (or whether) the front is going to
stall, though, very reliably without much more detail than even I want
to get into.
The big difference in what they do and what I can't is they have access
to the models which have the actual boundary conditions re-normalized
and can then observe the progressions predicted over a series of runs
to see the ensemble averages play out over the next 4-12 hours in
exquisite detail. Those aren't, to my knowledge, available anywhere
and don't have the compute horsepower here to run them if did, nor the
feeds of the data required to normalize the initial bc's. The Wichita
stations buy this service and the NWS relies on their own sets of
models very extensively any more rather than the old "seat of the
pants" experience based on what remembered from previous. That tempers
he models, of course, and in some cases they through them out almost
entirely, but overall, they really make a big improvement.

For example, two days ago, they were talking of all snow here and the
freezing rain area was to be nearly 200 miles east. Starting
yesterday, the models started suggesting that wasn't going to hold and
by tonight we're right back in the bullseye for mostly freezing rain
with _maybe_ a changeover to snow before it finally ends...that's a
degree of fineness on where the warm air is going to ride over the
low-level cold front you really just can't tell from satellite data
alone -- it takes the jets and upper air patterns to be able to project
where that is going to be as well as the water vapor imagery and ground
temperatures.

Still, I think that from what you've said, I'd try turning the antenna to the
new direction and see whether or not it's worthwhile to point in that
direction. If so, and it's only 2 directions, I'd just get 2 antennas and do
as suggested in other posts, mounting one pointing each direction. Rotator is
fine - got one myself - but can be a bit of a pain if you're trying to
fine-tune a weak station and it has to be pointed *just so* to pick it up.

....

I'll get the new antenna and experiment before commiting to anything,
of course. The one problem w/ the two on the mast is it will have to
be beefed up quite a bit I think or the extra weight and especially
cross-section to the wind will take it down pretty quickly w/ our
winds.

But, I agree, if that were fixed, it could be more reliable than the
other at about the same cost. Of course, if I can't find the other
repeater anyway, my problem is solved...

Thanks for the input and the chat...

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