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#1
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Galvanized Pipe
I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've
read a few articles on the subject, and it looks fairly straight forward... unscrew the old pipe, put on a threaded plastic connector and attach PEX to it. How likely is it that my 1965 built house's pipes will break under me trying to unscrew them? If one breaks I'll have to buy a set of dies and rethread the darned thing, and I really don't want to do that. Also, is this a job a fella can really do himself? Or should I just pay the $2,000 to have a plumber do it? |
#2
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Galvanized Pipe
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#3
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Galvanized Pipe
I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've
read a few articles on the subject, and it looks fairly straight forward... unscrew the old pipe, put on a threaded plastic connector and attach PEX to it. How likely is it that my 1965 built house's pipes will break under me trying to unscrew them? If one breaks I'll have to buy a set of dies and rethread the darned thing, and I really don't want to do that. My mother-in-law recently asked me to take a look at their leaky kitchen faucet. I figured it would be a simple gasket or valve replacement. Turns out the faucet spout was corroded and the part was no longer available (or at least too difficult to find locally). It was a wall mount faucet which also turned out to be difficult to find (at a reasonable price). I thought I had gotten lucky when I found a replacement in the back of a bin at the local home center, and rushed back to my in-laws to install it. Unfortunately, when I went to unscrew the faucet, the pipe in the wall twisted off instead. So I bought a special tool to try to remove the pipe from the next fitting. No go, it just crumbled until the fitting was destroyed also. Figured I'd try to remove that fitting and replace, but it busted off inside the wall. I decided to just replace the vertical pipes running in the wall with new ones to the basement. So, I started removing pipes and fittings. It seemed like every fitting I went to remove cracked or crumbled in my hands. The final 10 foot section of pipe split lengthwise down the entire length! I thought to myself "You've got to be kidding!" By the time I was done, there was only 5 feet of the original plumbing left. So, I decided to just replumb the house since the majority of it was already out. Of course, the old faucet mounted to rigid galvanized pipes, and the new CPVC piping wouldn't support the faucet. And there was no way to install bracing without tearing into the wall. I certainly didn't want to go there after everything that had happened so far. In the end, I decided to replace the kitchen sink with one I could mount a standard deck mount kitchen faucet to. So, the moral of this story is hope for something simple, but expect the worst. In my case, a leaky faucet turned into a complete replumbing job. My in-laws have a new sink and faucet and much better plumbing now, but it wasn't the project I had been planning for. If the pipe joints look rusted like they've been dripping water, or you see any signs along the pipes of pinhole drips, expect the pipes to break. Anthony |
#4
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Galvanized Pipe
wrote in message
ups.com... How likely is it that my 1965 built house's pipes will break under me trying to unscrew them? Having watched a friend do this, I believe the odds are related to two things: - How soon you have guests coming to dinner. - Whether someone in the house is in a nasty mood for regularly occurring biological reasons. Beware. |
#5
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Galvanized Pipe
and another day to run the pipe and fittings. Wow, just one day? I re-pipe mine with copper and it took a few days with just one guy. Did you open up the walls to get to the showers, tubs, sink fixtures and hot water heater too? |
#6
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Galvanized Pipe
Grandpa wrote:
wrote: I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've ... Suggestions - run 3/4 PEX as much as you can, you will appreciate the flow. Second, if you're going to do it, replace it all at once, the effort involved will keep you from ever wanting to do it again. Not a bad suggestion, but if you can do it, I suggest running all runs as home runs to a manifold in the basement. You can use the smaller ½ inch and since you will not be sharing, it should give good volume and pressure and the hot water will not need to run as long. Any maintenance work will allow you to shut down just one run at a time. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#7
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Galvanized Pipe
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
... Grandpa wrote: wrote: I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've .. Suggestions - run 3/4 PEX as much as you can, you will appreciate the flow. Second, if you're going to do it, replace it all at once, the effort involved will keep you from ever wanting to do it again. Not a bad suggestion, but if you can do it, I suggest running all runs as home runs to a manifold in the basement. You can use the smaller ½ inch and since you will not be sharing, it should give good volume and pressure and the hot water will not need to run as long. Any maintenance work will allow you to shut down just one run at a time. -- Joseph Meehan Manifold? |
#8
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Galvanized Pipe
# Fred # wrote:
and another day to run the pipe and fittings. Wow, just one day? I re-pipe mine with copper and it took a few days with just one guy. Did you open up the walls to get to the showers, tubs, sink fixtures and hot water heater too? Was way too lucky on that. Deep crawl space under the house made access easy. Pulled the old galvanized out and used the sill plate holes to run the PEX in. Existing access doors for behind the tub, lavatory and commode meant we didn't have to open up a single wall. -- Grandpa |
#9
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Galvanized Pipe
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Grandpa wrote: wrote: I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've .. Suggestions - run 3/4 PEX as much as you can, you will appreciate the flow. Second, if you're going to do it, replace it all at once, the effort involved will keep you from ever wanting to do it again. Not a bad suggestion, but if you can do it, I suggest running all runs as home runs to a manifold in the basement. You can use the smaller ½ inch and since you will not be sharing, it should give good volume and pressure and the hot water will not need to run as long. Any maintenance work will allow you to shut down just one run at a time. Every application will be different, but a manifold may lend itself to ease of routing. We put quarter turn ball valves at every fixture for maintenance work. Question - in all that talk about using water pipes for grounding, someone mentioned bonding the water heater inlet and outlet pipes together. If you're 100% PEX from the water meter, would that be necessary? -- Grandpa |
#10
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Galvanized Pipe
Question - in all that talk about using water pipes for grounding, someone mentioned bonding the water heater inlet and outlet pipes together. If you're 100% PEX from the water meter, would that be necessary? -- Grandpa No, as you can't ground PEX but make sure the electrical panels are grounded. |
#11
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Galvanized Pipe
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#12
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Galvanized Pipe
Your WAY better off repacing all the steel pipe.
Start by doing the hot, isolate it from the cold at the hot water tank, this way you still have water for flushing. Dont try to do everything in one day, do a couple runs and go from there |
#13
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Galvanized Pipe
wrote in message ups.com... I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've read a few articles on the subject, and it looks fairly straight forward... unscrew the old pipe, put on a threaded plastic connector and attach PEX to it. How likely is it that my 1965 built house's pipes will break under me trying to unscrew them? If one breaks I'll have to buy a set of dies and rethread the darned thing, and I really don't want to do that. Also, is this a job a fella can really do himself? Or should I just pay the $2,000 to have a plumber do it? Yes, with some advance planning, you can do it. If you plan to do small stages, yes, I can pretty much guarantee one fitting will be a problem. If you plan ahead, lay out the manifolds, perhaps run the lines to the fixtures in advance, you will have only once connection to worry about. |
#15
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Galvanized Pipe
Grandpa wrote:
Question - in all that talk about using water pipes for grounding, someone mentioned bonding the water heater inlet and outlet pipes together. If you're 100% PEX from the water meter, would that be necessary? No, you don't use water pipes for grounding, you ground the water pipes. A subtle, but important difference. |
#16
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Galvanized Pipe
wrote in message ups.com... I plan to replace a good portion of galvanized Pipe with PEX. I've read a few articles on the subject, and it looks fairly straight forward... unscrew the old pipe, put on a threaded plastic connector and attach PEX to it. How likely is it that my 1965 built house's pipes will break under me trying to unscrew them? If one breaks I'll have to buy a set of dies and rethread the darned thing, and I really don't want to do that. Also, is this a job a fella can really do himself? Or should I just pay the $2,000 to have a plumber do it? If I was going to do all that work, re-pipe the house First I would replace all the pipe, Second I would use Copper not PEX even if Mice & Rats like it. ( and they will chew threw it) It's just the new cheap housing track way to do things. But what do I know I'm just a plumber. |
#17
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Galvanized Pipe
"Sacramento Dave" wrote in message If I was going to do all that work, re-pipe the house First I would replace all the pipe, Second I would use Copper not PEX even if Mice & Rats like it. ( and they will chew threw it) It's just the new cheap housing track way to do things. But what do I know I'm just a plumber. Every material has its place. PEX is a great material in the right place. It has been used in Europe for years. If it was up to union plumbers, we'd still be using cast iron pipe. and all houses would be built from stone. |
#18
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Galvanized Pipe
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... "Sacramento Dave" wrote in message If I was going to do all that work, re-pipe the house First I would replace all the pipe, Second I would use Copper not PEX even if Mice & Rats like it. ( and they will chew threw it) It's just the new cheap housing track way to do things. But what do I know I'm just a plumber. Every material has its place. PEX is a great material in the right place. It has been used in Europe for years. If it was up to union plumbers, we'd still be using cast iron pipe. and all houses would be built from stone. Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. But now do the contractors pass that savings on ? Now you bash the Unions what dose that have to do with the quality of pipe. But are one of those people that think everybody but you should make minimum wage, have no medical benefits, have no retirement. Even Union wages aren't that much compared to cost of living anymore. |
#19
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Galvanized Pipe
In article ,
HeyBub wrote: Grandpa wrote: Question - in all that talk about using water pipes for grounding, someone mentioned bonding the water heater inlet and outlet pipes together. If you're 100% PEX from the water meter, would that be necessary? No, you don't use water pipes for grounding, you ground the water pipes. A subtle, but important difference. In an older house it is possible that the water pipes were used for the ground and that the pipes are in fact still the one and only ground on the premises. If that is the case it will be necessary to install a code-approved ground when replacing the pipes -- Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - |
#20
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Galvanized Pipe
Thanks for the responses fellas.
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#21
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Galvanized Pipe
"Sacramento Dave" wrote:
Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. Not challenging you, I just want to understand. Why is PEX not as good as copper? -- Doug |
#22
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Galvanized Pipe
In article , Douglas Johnson wrote:
"Sacramento Dave" wrote: Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. Not challenging you, I just want to understand. Why is PEX not as good as copper? "Cheaper" and "faster to install" sound like good reasons to me... -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#23
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Galvanized Pipe
wrote in message ... In article , HeyBub wrote: Grandpa wrote: Question - in all that talk about using water pipes for grounding, someone mentioned bonding the water heater inlet and outlet pipes together. If you're 100% PEX from the water meter, would that be necessary? No, you don't use water pipes for grounding, you ground the water pipes. A subtle, but important difference. In an older house it is possible that the water pipes were used for the ground and that the pipes are in fact still the one and only ground on the premises. If that is the case it will be necessary to install a code-approved ground when replacing the pipes -- Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - Yes pay attention to that. There are lots of houses with plenty of gotchas like that, espcially ones built in the 50's and 60's where grounding was first becoming standard and desirable. My house was a virtual deathtrap of grounds to water pipes - when the actual grounding was installed every and all grounds unaccounted for were clipped by the electrican so as to rule out fault loops and shock hazards. |
#24
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Galvanized Pipe
"Sacramento Dave" wrote in message Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. But now do the contractors pass that savings on ? Now you bash the Unions what dose that have to do with the quality of pipe. But are one of those people that think everybody but you should make minimum wage, have no medical benefits, have no retirement. Even Union wages aren't that much compared to cost of living anymore. Oh, you are so wrong about what you say. Never did I say unions cause poor quality pipes. I have nothing against making a good wage and good benefits. Tradesmen deserve a good wage. What I did say was unions do not like to change and modernize. I've worked in many areas where the unions are strong. It is not just about wages, but they can resist change if less labor is involved. I've seen it up close and personal in the Philadelphia area. I've seen unions destroy some very good small businesses also. Unions were great for the working man back in the 30's and 40's and even into the 50's. But around the mid 60's they started to go to hell. Yes, most unions today suck. Some of the smart ones are now changing and realizing they must work with businesses to create jobs and train skilled workers, not just demand more benefits. They must EARN them. I've been involved with union negotiations and I've seen the leadership sell out the employees for their personal gain. FWIW, I pay my plumber $55.00/hour. |
#25
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Galvanized Pipe
Doug Miller wrote: In article , Douglas Johnson wrote: "Sacramento Dave" wrote: Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. Not challenging you, I just want to understand. Why is PEX not as good as copper? "Cheaper" and "faster to install" sound like good reasons to me... "Cheaper" and "faster" aren't _necessarily_ synonymous w/ "better". I doubt Sacramento Dave has any real data to back up the contention but is more stating an opinion/prejudice (which in some ways as noted below I share). The one thing against PEX at this point imo is that it doesn't have the history behind it yet. We'll know in 20, 30, 50, 100 years how good it _really_ is. Personally, my expectation is it won't be as durable for the long run, but that's just one guy's guess. I have a prejudice against it because it just looks cheap in my eye but that has absolutely nothing to do w/ it's actual quality as a plumbing system. |
#26
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Galvanized Pipe
"dpb" wrote in message ups.com... Doug Miller wrote: In article , Douglas Johnson wrote: "Sacramento Dave" wrote: Fact is it just is not as good as copper you can sugar coated anyway you want. It is cheaper, and faster to install. Not challenging you, I just want to understand. Why is PEX not as good as copper? "Cheaper" and "faster to install" sound like good reasons to me... "Cheaper" and "faster" aren't _necessarily_ synonymous w/ "better". I doubt Sacramento Dave has any real data to back up the contention but is more stating an opinion/prejudice (which in some ways as noted below I share). The one thing against PEX at this point imo is that it doesn't have the history behind it yet. We'll know in 20, 30, 50, 100 years how good it _really_ is. Personally, my expectation is it won't be as durable for the long run, but that's just one guy's guess. I have a prejudice against it because it just looks cheap in my eye but that has absolutely nothing to do w/ it's actual quality as a plumbing system. And there's nothing wrong with that method of choosing what you use. I agree with you, I feel that PEX does in fact look cheap, chintzy, and half-assed but I'm still using it because it is so much easier to install. The way I look at it, if the PEX I've installed lasts 20 years - which I think is reasonable, it will still be a snap to correct it. How much time does it take to install - it takes me less time to get over my fear of "what lurks in the crawlspace" than it does to install it - an hour if I'm feeling particularly jumpy? Will copper survive an earthquake? Quite possibly not, PEX will no problem if done right. Earthquakes are not uncommon where I live. For those experienced working with copper you all might feel the exact same way. But I'm not experienced with copper, I'd have it installed then spend the next day tryinig in vain to close all the leaky joints because the silver solder didn't flow well. Or I'd spend the next week talking to the insurance agent on why I burned my house down with a propane torch. So unless I have about 1000+ to pay a plumber to do the job right, I do the same thing every other homeowner does and spend 75 bucks and install PEX (plus the cost of the crimper - if needed). It's all a matter of what you are more comfortable with. As for my own house. Copper from the meter to the first junction - PEX there on in. |
#27
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Galvanized Pipe
dpb wrote:
I doubt Sacramento Dave has any real data to back up the contention but is more stating an opinion/prejudice (which in some ways as noted below I share). The one thing against PEX at this point imo is that it doesn't have the history behind it yet. We'll know in 20, 30, 50, 100 years how good it _really_ is. Personally, my expectation is it won't be as durable for the long run, but that's just one guy's guess. I have a prejudice against it because it just looks cheap in my eye but that has absolutely nothing to do w/ it's actual quality as a plumbing system. Its already been in common use in Europe for at least 30 years. |
#28
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Galvanized Pipe
I have fiberglass insulation in my crawl space, should I use copper as
I would have to sweat most of the joints very near the fiberglass? Fiberglass, I'm sure isn't flammable, just not sure if it's a good idea. Copper is $7 for 1/2" x 8ft at home depot here in Kansas! PEX is 50ft x 1/2" for $25 here, and the tool is a rental for $10 a day at my local hardware store. |
#29
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Galvanized Pipe
wrote in message oups.com... I have fiberglass insulation in my crawl space, should I use copper as I would have to sweat most of the joints very near the fiberglass? Fiberglass, I'm sure isn't flammable, just not sure if it's a good idea. Copper is $7 for 1/2" x 8ft at home depot here in Kansas! PEX is 50ft x 1/2" for $25 here, and the tool is a rental for $10 a day at my local hardware store. Use what suits the job best. Sweating the joint is simple enough. Just put a small piece of drywall between the joint and the fiberglass to hold it away. |
#30
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Galvanized Pipe
WHERE in Kansas is copper that cheap?? Also, it doesn't come in 8'
sections. -- Steve Barker wrote in message oups.com... Copper is $7 for 1/2" x 8ft at home depot here in Kansas! PEX is 50ft x 1/2" for $25 here, and the tool is a rental for $10 a day at my local hardware store. |
#31
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Galvanized Pipe
I apologize, Steve's right....
http://contractorservices.homedepot....3-8fe8d72013db it's 10 bucks for 1/2" copper M grade here, and it's 10 feet long. That's $1 per foot or so for grade M, 1/2" copper. 3/4" pex is about $50 at HomeDepot for 100 feet.... easier to install, cheaper and you don't even have to have a truck to get it home. And I only risk flooding my house by being a moron, rather than burning it down by trying to sweat all those pipes. Thanks guys, I know what to do now. Steve Barker LT wrote: WHERE in Kansas is copper that cheap?? Also, it doesn't come in 8' sections. -- Steve Barker wrote in message oups.com... Copper is $7 for 1/2" x 8ft at home depot here in Kansas! PEX is 50ft x 1/2" for $25 here, and the tool is a rental for $10 a day at my local hardware store. |
#32
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Galvanized Pipe
That's $1 per foot or so for grade M, 1/2" copper. 3/4" pex is about $50 at HomeDepot for 100 feet.... easier to install, cheaper and you don't even have to have a truck to get it home. And I only risk flooding my house by being a moron, rather than burning it down by trying to sweat all those pipes. Thanks guys, I know what to do now. Plus run the plex to a manifold distribution center, with ball valves on each line this way you can easily isolate any fixture at any time and have no hidden Ts etc in walls. think of it as a control paNEL FOR WATER |
#33
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Galvanized Pipe
"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:
FWIW, I pay my plumber $55.00/hour. Do you use illegals or unlicensed plumbers? Licensed plumbers here charge more like $90-100/hour! |
#34
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Galvanized Pipe
"blueman" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" writes: FWIW, I pay my plumber $55.00/hour. Do you use illegals or unlicensed plumbers? Licensed plumbers here charge more like $90-100/hour! He is a master plumber, fully licensed and insured. I'm glad I live here rather that there, wherever you are. |
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