Containing water on the basement floor
 

I'm in the process of finishing my basement. WRT the floor, we still
haven't decided if we're going to be using vinyl, cork, carpet, or
whatever else is available - but that's not important right now.

My concern is water. I've done the plastic/duct tape trick and have
determined that moisture coming through the floor should not be a
problem. The walls don't leak, and the sump pump and battery backup
work just fine. My concern is the water heaters. The traditional
way to tell when they need to be replaced is to observe the water on
the floor. The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years. This will be
incompatible with virtually any floor I put down, with the exception
of vinyl, which is pretty near the bottom of my desirability list.
Is there product that will allow me to build a dam around the water
heaters that will keep the water contained in that area, protecting
the floor? Perhaps I could build such a dam using commonly available
materials? There is a floor drain immediately adjacent to the tanks,
so the water would have a place to go.

Suggestions/comments?

Thanks,
Mike

Containing water on the basement floor
 

"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years.

This is not likely.
1. You will get longer life out of your water heaters
if you flush them out (removing precipitate) every summer.
2. Leaks are only one form of failure. Others include
deterioration of replaceable parts (e.g. heating elements)
and irreplaceable parts.
3. If you really believed every heater will leak in its 10th
year you could simply replace them at nine-year intervals,
thus avoiding all leaks.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Containing water on the basement floor
 

Don Phillipson wrote:
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years.

This is not likely.
1. You will get longer life out of your water heaters
if you flush them out (removing precipitate) every summer.
2. Leaks are only one form of failure. Others include
deterioration of replaceable parts (e.g. heating elements)
and irreplaceable parts.
3. If you really believed every heater will leak in its 10th
year you could simply replace them at nine-year intervals,
thus avoiding all leaks.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

theres no telling when one will leak but I replace mine early. saves
inconvenience and a mess:) my current tank is nov 2000. time does fly:(
I write the install date on the tank with a marker for easy reference:)

heres MY theory, new tank is under 500 bucks. assume it lasts 10 years,
thats 50 bucks per year. Less than the cost of a candy bar a week. why
not replace it al 8 years? saves a mess and a hassle done on my
schedule not the tanks

There are water heater drain pans the heaters sit in with a outlet to
drain them, add a water sensor so you KNOW its in trouble.

or you could move your heaters to a better less damaging location where
a leak wouldnt matter direct vent models are available so noi chimney
needed

or buy 2 new long warranty heaters NOW, and when the first fails
replace the carpet. and the remaining tank after all it will probably
be 10 years or longer:) due for new carpet anyway by that time:) 12
year warranty tanks are out there...... so long life is available.

we replace most things before they are completely dead at very large
expense like a car. a hot water tank is a mere nuisance in comparison
to a 25K vehicle that liokely doesnt survive 10 years:(

Containing water on the basement floor
 

In article ,
says...
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years.

This is not likely.
1. You will get longer life out of your water heaters
if you flush them out (removing precipitate) every summer.

While I understand, agree with, and, indeed, practice that, it is
only postponing the inevitable. My question is not how to extend the
life of my tank, rather it is how to minimize the damage if and when
it ultimately fails.

2. Leaks are only one form of failure. Others include
deterioration of replaceable parts (e.g. heating elements)
and irreplaceable parts.

Granted. Leaks, however, are a real possibility. To suggest
otherwise is to invite the very problem I'm trying to prevent. With
one exception, every tank I've owned over the past 35 years has
notified me of its death by peeing on the floor.

3. If you really believed every heater will leak in its 10th
year you could simply replace them at nine-year intervals,
thus avoiding all leaks.

That would work if the ten year thing was consistent/predictable.
Alas, the nature of these beasts is such that they are neither.
That's why we mortals need a symptom to tell us that something's
wrong.

Containing water on the basement floor
 

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years.

This is not likely.
1. You will get longer life out of your water heaters
if you flush them out (removing precipitate) every summer.


Why summer?

Containing water on the basement floor
 

In article . com,
says...

Don Phillipson wrote:
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years.

This is not likely.
1. You will get longer life out of your water heaters
if you flush them out (removing precipitate) every summer.
2. Leaks are only one form of failure. Others include
deterioration of replaceable parts (e.g. heating elements)
and irreplaceable parts.
3. If you really believed every heater will leak in its 10th
year you could simply replace them at nine-year intervals,
thus avoiding all leaks.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

theres no telling when one will leak but I replace mine early. saves
inconvenience and a mess:) my current tank is nov 2000. time does fly:(
I write the install date on the tank with a marker for easy reference:)

heres MY theory, new tank is under 500 bucks. assume it lasts 10 years,
thats 50 bucks per year. Less than the cost of a candy bar a week. why
not replace it al 8 years? saves a mess and a hassle done on my
schedule not the tanks

You must be eating the King Size Snickers ;-) A replacement schedule
like that might reduce the odds of seeing such a problem, but
consider that one of the five year heaters that the builder provided
with my current home failed after three years. It's the
unpredictability that keeps me awake at night (ok, I'm exaggerating
just to make a point).

There are water heater drain pans the heaters sit in with a outlet to
drain them, add a water sensor so you KNOW its in trouble.

Sounds perfect! Unfortunately, I used solid copper pipe when I
installed these, so I wouldn't be able to simply slide them under the
tanks without doing some plumbing work. While not a BIG problem, I
was hoping for something simpler. This may, nevertheless, be the
route that I eventually take.

or you could move your heaters to a better less damaging location where
a leak wouldnt matter direct vent models are available so noi chimney
needed

They are under the stairs, alongside the furnace. This is the
perfect spot for them, IMO, so I'd really rather not move them.

or buy 2 new long warranty heaters NOW, and when the first fails
replace the carpet. and the remaining tank after all it will probably
be 10 years or longer:) due for new carpet anyway by that time:) 12
year warranty tanks are out there...... so long life is available.

Coordinating it with the carpet replacement is definitely thinking
outside the box. That's an interesting approach.

we replace most things before they are completely dead at very large
expense like a car. a hot water tank is a mere nuisance in comparison
to a 25K vehicle that liokely doesnt survive 10 years:(

Agreed. However, despite experience and gobs of evidence to the
contrary, a water heater is one of those things that we truly, with
our heart of hearts, believe will last forever. I don't know why we
believe that, we just do. Far be it from me to break with tradition.

Containing water on the basement floor
 

replace tank early every 5 years or so

ceramic tile or other floor not damaged by water

reloate tanks to area that cant damage anything

use tank drip pans drains and water alarms in case of leak

make sure your homeowners will cover any damage when and if it occurs

Containing water on the basement floor
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
replace tank early every 5 years or so

ceramic tile or other floor not damaged by water

reloate tanks to area that cant damage anything

use tank drip pans drains and water alarms in case of leak

make sure your homeowners will cover any damage when and if it occurs


Who are you responding to?

Containing water on the basement floor
 

As a comment for everyone, remember that life expectancy for water
heaters depends greatly on the water. Where I live, I can expect ten to
fifteen years from a cheap contractor grade water heater. Most places would
be doing good to get half that. I don't think anyone in my 100 home
development has had to replace one yet.

Also consider your water conditions as well as the volume of water you
use and the temperature you keep the heater at when trying to determine
useful life.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Containing water on the basement floor
 

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Don Phillipson wrote:
....
There are water heater drain pans the heaters sit in with a outlet to
drain them, add a water sensor so you KNOW its in trouble.

Sounds perfect! Unfortunately, I used solid copper pipe when I
installed these, so I wouldn't be able to simply slide them under the
tanks without doing some plumbing work. While not a BIG problem, I
was hoping for something simpler. This may, nevertheless, be the
route that I eventually take.
....

Will need to plumb in a drain line anyway if you are intending to make
this nearly foolproof (and, of course, that still doesn't account for
the possible relief valve letting go some time), so unless there's a
local drain that you could essentially turn into a shower floor type
basin by pouring a lip around, there's still plumbing to be done since
there's no way the drip pan will hold more than a few gallons at most.

While doing it, modify the plumbing connections to either use a union
if keep the hard copper or make a transition w/ the flexible lines
designed specifically for water heaters so when you do need to replace
one it is a doable chore w/o soldering required at that time...

On the original note, if there's a requirement for a sump pump in a
basement, I'd certainly not be satisfied that there's no moisture
problem for flooring w/o significant preparation solely by the plastic
sheet test for a few days...that's indicative you may be able to solve
the moisture problem but isn't anyways close to a conclusive test. In
other words, it's kinda' like the old math theorem phrase--"necessary,
but not sufficient."

Containing water on the basement floor
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
replace tank early every 5 years or so

ceramic tile or other floor not damaged by water

reloate tanks to area that cant damage anything

use tank drip pans drains and water alarms in case of leak

make sure your homeowners will cover any damage when and if it occurs


Who are you responding to?

the OP who is concerned with water damaging his floor...........

Containing water on the basement floor
 

In article . com,
says...

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Don Phillipson wrote:
...
There are water heater drain pans the heaters sit in with a outlet to
drain them, add a water sensor so you KNOW its in trouble.

Sounds perfect! Unfortunately, I used solid copper pipe when I
installed these, so I wouldn't be able to simply slide them under the
tanks without doing some plumbing work. While not a BIG problem, I
was hoping for something simpler. This may, nevertheless, be the
route that I eventually take.
...

Will need to plumb in a drain line anyway if you are intending to make
this nearly foolproof (and, of course, that still doesn't account for
the possible relief valve letting go some time), so unless there's a
local drain that you could essentially turn into a shower floor type
basin by pouring a lip around, there's still plumbing to be done since
there's no way the drip pan will hold more than a few gallons at most.

There's a drain about 1 foot away, so that's not a problem. Indeed,
with my current setup, the last time a tank died, the water only
spread out to about a 2' radius. I'm not talking copious amounts of
water here - just enough to cause a headache.

While doing it, modify the plumbing connections to either use a union
if keep the hard copper or make a transition w/ the flexible lines
designed specifically for water heaters so when you do need to replace
one it is a doable chore w/o soldering required at that time...

Soldering is not a problem and I think the flexible lines have a DIY
look to them - tacky, IMO. I already have dielectric unions, so as
long as a new tank is exactly the same height as the tank it's
replacing, there's no need to solder.

On the original note, if there's a requirement for a sump pump in a
basement, I'd certainly not be satisfied that there's no moisture
problem for flooring w/o significant preparation solely by the plastic
sheet test for a few days...that's indicative you may be able to solve
the moisture problem but isn't anyways close to a conclusive test. In
other words, it's kinda' like the old math theorem phrase--"necessary,
but not sufficient."

A sump pump is required in all new construction in my village. I'm
told that it was a broad brush, knee-jerk solution to an isolated,
though severe, flooding event some twenty years ago. It's not an
indication of drainage problems.

Containing water on the basement floor
 

The first time I had to replace my water heater, I installed 1/2" sweat
unions on the cold and hot lines which made it easy when I had to replace
that one.
--
Have a Great Week !

Check Winter Haven's Current Weather
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/...er+Haven+33881
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
I'm in the process of finishing my basement. WRT the floor, we still
haven't decided if we're going to be using vinyl, cork, carpet, or
whatever else is available - but that's not important right now.

My concern is water. I've done the plastic/duct tape trick and have
determined that moisture coming through the floor should not be a
problem. The walls don't leak, and the sump pump and battery backup
work just fine. My concern is the water heaters. The traditional
way to tell when they need to be replaced is to observe the water on
the floor. The life expectancy of a mainstream consumer type heater
is, perhaps ten years. I have two, which means that I can expect
such a puddle an average of once every five years. This will be
incompatible with virtually any floor I put down, with the exception
of vinyl, which is pretty near the bottom of my desirability list.
Is there product that will allow me to build a dam around the water
heaters that will keep the water contained in that area, protecting
the floor? Perhaps I could build such a dam using commonly available
materials? There is a floor drain immediately adjacent to the tanks,
so the water would have a place to go.

Suggestions/comments?

Thanks,
Mike