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#41
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Rick Brandt" writes:
wrote in message ... On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:40:15 GMT, "Rick Brandt" wrote: wrote in message ... Are you a complete idiot. Have you ever had a cat and visiting kids. Cats are usually curled up minding their own business. A cat can't flee when a kid has a death grip on it. It swipes with it's front paw. You said "Toddler". A cat that can't avoid a toddler is either ancient or retarded. FACT asshole: Declawed cats BITE. Cat bites can be very dangerous. Prove it. I've had several cats, all declawed and none of them ever bit anyone. Perhaps your biting cats are frustrated over something else? Personal anecdotes don't amount to proof. However... Our cat is declawed. Early on she got excited in our screened in porch and then turned around and sunk her teeth into my hand. A few days later I needed to visit a doctor because the wound got infected. Seemed pretty dangerous to me. Since then she's gotten me a couple of times. She can certainly protect herself. Overall she's a very nice cat, follows us around the house, comes when called. Declawed cats should never be let outside. In most areas, I don't think any cat should be let outside. |
#42
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
wrote in message
... http://www.spcanova.org/adoptc.htm 8. Declawing. Our cats may not be declawed. If you want a declawed cat, ask if we have one that is already declawed. Reason: Declawing is cruel, physically and psychologically, and completely unnecessary. A cat's claws function as part of its fingers and toes. Declawing means amputating the last joint of a cat's toes. The surgery and recovery is extremely painful. Declawing impedes a cat's ability to walk and play as well as protect and groom themselves. Psychologically, cats need to claw as part of their grooming ritual and many cats knead with their claws to express comfort. Declawed cats tend to have higher levels of anxiety because they feel defenseless and often become biters. They also tend to react to stress by acting out such as by not using their litter boxes. Frequent clipping of the tip of the claw can help alleviate damage due to scratching. An SPCA volunteer or your vet can show you how to properly clip claws. Give your cat plenty of appropriate things to scratch and gently correct your cat if it scratches the wrong things. A little patience, positive reinforcement, and consistency in training alleviates the vast majority of scratching problems. Lots of nice words that only lack one thing. Proof of any kind whatsoever. Millions of happy, contented, declawed cats belie everything in that statement. All it has is an author who wants to attribute human characteristics to animals and then spout amateurish Psychoanalysis on them |
#43
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
In article , "Cheri"
gserviceatinreachdotcom says... krw wrote in message ... Our cats have never been outside. They don't have a real interest in the outside, other than as a giant TV set. Responsible cat owners don't let them outside, unless they have a kennel type cage to keep them in so they can sun themselves etc. Too many cats flattened in the streets, taken by dogs etc., then the owner is crying about the loss of "fluffy," as if it isn't their fault for subjecting the poor cat to all the hazards in the first place. Finally some sense here, though you forgot disease. Cats spread feline leukemia like wildfire. Cats kept away from others and cars live a very long life (we had one tabby 22 years). Just give the cats a toy box stuffed full of their favorite toys and play with them when they want. -- Keith |
#44
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
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#45
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"krw" wrote in message
... Have you ever heard of training a pet? I guess not, your momma failed. Ah, the professional dog owner argument. Sure, I would have no problem with legislation that limited pit bull ownership to those who took classes both for the owner and with their dog and required that both pass an examination of aptitude after same. Of course when bad things happened under those conditions I would expect the owner to be jailed for reckless endangerment since they had obviously cheated or produced fraudulent proof of having taken the classes (since no one that had taken the classes could possibly have an incident right?). The current REAL problem is that any ordinary asshole can acquire these dogs and not all of them are going to spend the time and effort to provide anything beyond rudimentary training. Is it your position that when Joe Average acquires and does NOT train his dog extensively that the dog's danger to society is the same regardless of breed? That breed doesn't enter into the equation at all? |
#47
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
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#48
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
In article ,
says... http://www.goodcatswearblack.com/dec..._declawing.htm Declawing related web sites: Petition to outlaw declawing - please sign petition on declawing Where? San Fran? Only in a loony bin would they come up with such a stupid idea. All it'll do is remove revenue from the pockets of the vets in that town and send it to the next one over. Classic leftist nonsense. -- Keith |
#49
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"krw" wrote in message
t... In article , says... "krw" wrote in message ... Have you ever heard of training a pet? I guess not, your momma failed. Ah, the professional dog owner argument. Nope, not me. Don't even own a dog currently. I've met quite a few very friendly Pit Bulls, and particularly Rotties. It *can* be done. Just don't torture the thing and you're a long way down the right road. People that believe certain breeds are overtly dangerous do NOT take the position that these breeds walk around 100% of the time snarling and snapping at things (that would actually make them easier to outlaw). What IS true is that these breeds can be sweet, obedient pets for years and then without obvious provocation attack a person or other animal. Compounding that is the fact that they are not easily subdued. There are many attack stories where neighbors with baseball bats or similar were not able to get these dogs to release their hold. Policemen have often had to put multiple rounds into these dogs before they go down. The canine jaw is one of the most powerful in nature and these dogs have much more powerful jaws than your average lab or shepard. I'm against any legislation that singles out a particular breed. It won't work for the same reason that laws against "designer drugs" don't. Non-sequitor. Laws concerning drugs have nothing to do with the issue. I'd have no problem with that for any dog that seriously injures someone. And when certain breeds are known time and again to be involved in these cases the legislators are just supposed to sit back and act AFTER every incident? Assholes can drive cars too. And driving cars is heavily regulated. Thanks for making my point. No, it's my position that if the dog (any breed) is dangerous, the owner be held responsible. But only and always after the fact, right? That breed doesn't enter into the equation at all? Correct. The dog cannot be responsible, rather the owner/ If insurance companies want to limit breeds they'll insure, I really don't have much to say though. Contract, and all... This isn't about holding the dog responsible. Municipalities restrict the ownership of more types of animals than those that are allowed, usually for far less serious reasons than safety. If one can be prevented from having a cow in their back yard just because of the smell then I see no reason not to disallow a dangerous breed of dog. |
#50
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
dkhedmo wrote:
Any ideas to secure the bottom edges of the chain link fence? New-to-us dog tunneled under the brand new fence and bolted. The mister thinks we should have the fence guy come back and secure pipe at the bottom of the fence from post to post, clipping the fence to the pipe as along the top. I'm not convinced this will solve the tunneling problem, just slow the progress. I'm thinking some kind of metal edging that can be sunk 12" or so below ground, with a few inches remaining above to cover any gap between ground and fence. If we were to go with this metal edging idea, what kind of metal, and from whom do I procure it? Any other ideas? For the time being, dog goes on a 40' tether on one of those screw in stakes, just to run around the $1200 "fenced in" yard. Grr... -Karen- Thanks very much to those who gave useful, constructive advice, it was much appreciated. All the other stuff that cropped up, I'm staying out of - dog breeds, owner responsibility, cat ownership, declawing... Have fun, let me know when you're done! In regard to those concerned the dog was being left alone in the yard all day, this is not at all the case. I am a stay-at-home mom and the dog is with people, both inside and outside, much of the day. We would not have gotten a dog if it would be left home alone all day. In fact, he was in the yard on a beautiful sunny Thanksgiving afternoon with both our sons while the adults were in and out when he tunneled his way to freedom. Thank goodness the older one saw him take off and ran to get us. The dog is new to us and had been a bit neglected and without training for a couple of years, so we're working on some issues and getting into a class. I think his previous family allowed him to drag them around on the leash and getting out into the neighborhood was a regular issue they never really stopped effectively. He does need more socialization with other dogs, I agree, and we are working on that by meeting neighbors with dogs and getting them together. There are also dogs at both houses on either side, which he sees a few times a day. He had a dog friend with his previous family before they divorced. Since then he's been tied up in the back yard alone for much of the past two years. The ex-wife finally took charge of finding the dog a better home than the ex-husband was able to provide. (The wife had taken the smaller of the two dogs to her townhouse, where rules only allow one dog.) So I think he's getting out primarily to meet other dogs. And to run - he's a border collie mix. He is walked at least twice a day for 20-50 minutes each time on varying routes. The weather being so nice this weekend, I got out my bike to try him running beside me and we both loved it and it really gave him the kind of workout he needs. (Unfortunately, the snow is coming...) My husband grew up with dogs, but this is my first dog and I've still got to learn how to keep him busy and challenged, I admit. I'm on a list of border collie owners, to learn more about keeping him challenged. When we went to Lowe's today to get the paraphernalia to secure the fence, the saleswoman who came to help us turned out to be a border collie owner and trainer and gave me lots of good ideas for both securing the fence and entertaining the dog. The barbed wire idea is not something we want to do, because of the potential of it hurting the pets and the kids. The cement under the edge of the fence is a good idea, but the current location of the fence is not where it is going to stay. We have a huge, deep back yard, but only fenced a portion closest to the back of the house for the time being. There is an above ground pool in the yard, and it does have a fenced deck with a locked gate, but we felt it safest for the kids while they are small to have a fence between the house and the pool. When finances permit, and the kids are older, we will eventually pull out this chain link perimeter and fence the whole yard with a nice wood fence - and cement under the edges! We have done paving stones under all the gates, and will do cement blocks or whatever along the fence bottom if the current fix doesn't hold, but it's a pretty good length of fence and will likely require the delivery of a pallet or two, so we're hoping we won't have to do that. Thanks again for helpful ideas. -Karen- |
#51
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Bert Byfield" wrote in message . 165... People do that to cats all the time thereby saving their precious furniture at the expense of the cat's primary defensive and offensive weapon. Bull****. A cat's primary weapon is it's rear claws. The fronts are merely a warning of things to come. Cats without fronts have difficulty running away from trouble. They want to climb but can't so they get caught and beaten up a lot. It's a barbaric practice. Turning a fine animal into a powder puff is an awful thing to do. 'powder puff' - I like that almost as much as my term- 'self-propelled plush toy'. aem sends... |
#52
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote in message ... krw wrote in message ... Our cats have never been outside. They don't have a real interest in the outside, other than as a giant TV set. Responsible cat owners don't let them outside, unless they have a kennel type cage to keep them in so they can sun themselves etc. Too many cats flattened in the streets, taken by dogs etc., then the owner is crying about the loss of "fluffy," as if it isn't their fault for subjecting the poor cat to all the hazards in the first place. Freedom is risky. Keep you in a padded cell, you'd probably live longer, too. Sorry, inside-only cats aren't cats any more. aem sends.... |
#53
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
An electric fence will cure the problem immediately. It keeps coyotes
out so some papered dog ain't gona go thru it. If they dig under it you need to put it in parallel rows. |
#54
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
In article ,
says... "krw" wrote in message t... In article , says... "krw" wrote in message ... Have you ever heard of training a pet? I guess not, your momma failed. Ah, the professional dog owner argument. Nope, not me. Don't even own a dog currently. I've met quite a few very friendly Pit Bulls, and particularly Rotties. It *can* be done. Just don't torture the thing and you're a long way down the right road. People that believe certain breeds are overtly dangerous do NOT take the position that these breeds walk around 100% of the time snarling and snapping at things (that would actually make them easier to outlaw). Good thing, I say. What IS true is that these breeds can be sweet, obedient pets for years and then without obvious provocation attack a person or other animal. Compounding that is the fact that they are not easily subdued. Neither is rabid St. Benard. So? If they're out of control, shoot them, then charge the owners with criminal mischief, or some such. There are many attack stories where neighbors with baseball bats or similar were not able to get these dogs to release their hold. Policemen have often had to put multiple rounds into these dogs before they go down. The canine jaw is one of the most powerful in nature and these dogs have much more powerful jaws than your average lab or shepard. There were *no* warnings? The dogs had never bitten nor snapped before? I'm sure you can find one example. I'm against any legislation that singles out a particular breed. It won't work for the same reason that laws against "designer drugs" don't. Non-sequitor. Laws concerning drugs have nothing to do with the issue. You really should try it again with an open mind. Let me go a little slower and see if that helps. You ban one breed and it morfs into another or you get mixes. Any such laws have more holes in them than a screen door. I'd have no problem with that for any dog that seriously injures someone. And when certain breeds are known time and again to be involved in these cases the legislators are just supposed to sit back and act AFTER every incident? Perhaps because they get attention of the press? Perhaps because they're the dog of choice of miscreants and beat to ****, either on purpose or because that's the only thing they understand? Perhaps because the moon _is_ made of green cheese. Your (lack of) stats is meaningless. Assholes can drive cars too. And driving cars is heavily regulated. Thanks for making my point. "Heavily regulated", my ass. Any 86 year-old can get a license and run down a dozen people. Assholes can still turn and kill on a moment's notice. No, it's my position that if the dog (any breed) is dangerous, the owner be held responsible. But only and always after the fact, right? That breed doesn't enter into the equation at all? Correct. The dog cannot be responsible, rather the owner/ If insurance companies want to limit breeds they'll insure, I really don't have much to say though. Contract, and all... This isn't about holding the dog responsible. There is a difference between a private contract and a law. I can choose to go without insurance or find another company. I can't disobey the force of law. Municipalities restrict the ownership of more types of animals than those that are allowed, usually for far less serious reasons than safety. All dogs are the same species. That species is also used for companionship and work. It's easy to write regulations banning horses or donkeys, not so with a subset of dogs that you think is inherently more dangerous than another. If one can be prevented from having a cow in their back yard just because of the smell then I see no reason not to disallow a dangerous breed of dog. Until the dog infringes on my rights it can stay. The cow has merely by existing. I bet you want to banish all blacks because statistically they cause more crime than non-blacks too. -- Keith |
#55
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
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#56
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Responsible cat owners don't let them outside, unless they have a
kennel type cage to keep them in so they can sun themselves etc. Too many cats flattened in the streets, taken by dogs etc., then the owner is crying about the loss of "fluffy," as if it isn't their fault for subjecting the poor cat to all the hazards in the first place. Cheri A responsible cat owner lets their cat experience freedom, risks and all. |
#57
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Bert Byfield" wrote in message
66... Responsible cat owners don't let them outside, unless they have a kennel type cage to keep them in so they can sun themselves etc. Too many cats flattened in the streets, taken by dogs etc., then the owner is crying about the loss of "fluffy," as if it isn't their fault for subjecting the poor cat to all the hazards in the first place. Cheri A responsible cat owner lets their cat experience freedom, risks and all. And they get to buy lots of cats that way. |
#58
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Declawed cats should never be let outside.
In most areas, I don't think any cat should be let outside. Declawed cats are an obscenity. Cats kept inside are another atrocity. Such a cruel world. |
#59
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Finally some sense here, though you forgot disease. Cats spread
feline leukemia like wildfire. Cats kept away from others and cars live a very long life (we had one tabby 22 years). Just give the cats a toy box stuffed full of their favorite toys and play with them when they want. Cats are alive. They are NOT powder puffs. |
#60
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
A responsible cat owner lets their cat experience freedom, risks and
all. And they get to buy lots of cats that way. If so, it means a chance at life for a kittens that would otherwise be put to death by the animal control center of your local government. |
#61
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
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#62
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
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#63
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Bert Byfield" wrote in message
. 166... A responsible cat owner lets their cat experience freedom, risks and all. And they get to buy lots of cats that way. If so, it means a chance at life for a kittens that would otherwise be put to death by the animal control center of your local government. Kittens that would unlikely exist were it not for people letting their cats roam around. |
#64
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Rick Brandt wrote:
"krw" wrote in message t... In article , says... krw wrote: Nonsense! Dogs were domesticated something like a million years ago. The resemble nothing of their wild cousins. Dogs *are* a part of the family, though also a possession. Nonsense! go read about the traits of a pit bull. "tendency to attack other dogs" is mentioned and that is a very primitive trait. Easily trained to be a pussy cat. Every owner of a pit bull euthanized after attacking another pet or person SWEARS that their little pooky bear was an angel until the incident happened. And how often the parents of murderers get on the tube to tell the world what a sweety pie the killer is, then blame the "wrong crowd". People that don't believe in breed-specific behaviors have not owned very many dogs. Humans have spent hundreds (or in a few cases thousands) of years selectively breeding to get certain attributes from each breed. Do you actually think that physical appearance is the only outcome of that? |
#65
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
clipped
Nonsense! Dogs were domesticated something like a million years ago. The resemble nothing of their wild cousins. Dogs *are* a part of the family, though also a possession. I bet when you were a kid a dog bit you, after you kicked it. No, I don't harm animals but I've read about enough people being killed by dogs that it is alarming to see owners who do not adequately secure their animals. Family pets can bite if they are injured, threatened or protecting their food. I grabbed a chicken bone from our pet once, and he didn't like it. My fault of course that he got food he should not have, but it is natural animal behavior that I was referring to. I've also had the sad experience of having an injured cat crawl into the yard .. one with a large abcessed wound on it's head. Cat's don't belong on city streets. We kept ours indoors and took good care of him ... one of the sweetest animals I have known. My daughter's dog came out of nowhere once when I bent over to tuck in and kiss my grandson goodnight .. she got between me and my grandson. She is very protective of her owners, and I don't know what it would take for her to attack, but she has also taken a protective stance to protect me. She is amazing, and people often stop to ask about her when we go for walks. The dog will get between me and the stranger, put her body against mine. Can't hear her growl but can feel it. I used to visit a neighbor's Doberman to give it water. It spent years tied to a tree in the back yard, wearing a path around the tree. His water bowl was often empty. His food bowl was attracting rats. Took care of an older lady in the hospital once who was mauled by her own Doberman. She was preparing it's food, went to put the bowl down and he mauled her arms badly. She lost a couple of fingers in the deal. |
#66
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Our town has a pet park, a large area set aside with a tall fence around
it and pets can run loose and play in it. I would be a bit intimidated being in there with a bunch of dogs of all sizes but I haven't read of any incidents of pets there attacking another pet or owner. Pretty neat idea. |
#67
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
Rick Brandt wrote: A responsible cat owner lets their cat experience freedom, risks and all. And they get to buy lots of cats that way. Cats are free everywhere. |
#68
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
krw wrote:
In article , lid says... krw wrote: Nonsense! Dogs were domesticated something like a million years ago. The resemble nothing of their wild cousins. Dogs *are* a part of the family, though also a possession. Nonsense! go read about the traits of a pit bull. "tendency to attack other dogs" is mentioned and that is a very primitive trait. Easily trained to be a pussy cat. Not from my observation. I know multiple people who have well trained pit bulls that seem like complete pussy cats and will lick you to death but as soon as they spot another dog the primitive traits kick in and they want to kill it. |
#69
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
wrote in message oups.com... Have the dog de-clawed. He can't dig with stubs. People do that to cats all the time thereby saving their precious furniture at the expense of the cat's primary defensive and offensive weapon. Dogs don't use their claws/nails for anything except digging. No harm there. cruel is all i can say, you ever see what a animal goes thru after being declawed? Along the same lines, but without the cruelty..... Get the dog nail clippers out, and trim the claws right down to the quick without cutting it. It does reduce the effectiveness of their digging ability. Regular trimming makes the quick recede, and lets you trim them ever shorter. It works on cats too. I've found a good manicure keeps them from having an interest in attacking the furniture. Mine are mostly outdoor casts, and even with a good trimming, they can climb trees, and do a good job of fending off nosey dogs. |
#70
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"HeyBub" wrote in
: dkhedmo wrote: Any ideas to secure the bottom edges of the chain link fence? New-to-us dog tunneled under the brand new fence and bolted. The mister thinks we should have the fence guy come back and secure pipe at the bottom of the fence from post to post, clipping the fence to the pipe as along the top. I'm not convinced this will solve the tunneling problem, just slow the progress. I'm thinking some kind of metal edging that can be sunk 12" or so below ground, with a few inches remaining above to cover any gap between ground and fence. If we were to go with this metal edging idea, what kind of metal, and from whom do I procure it? Any other ideas? For the time being, dog goes on a 40' tether on one of those screw in stakes, just to run around the $1200 "fenced in" yard. Grr... Have the dog de-clawed. He can't dig with stubs. People do that to cats all the time thereby saving their precious furniture at the expense of the cat's primary defensive and offensive weapon. Dogs don't use their claws/nails for anything except digging. No harm there. Yea, why would they wanna scratch their balls when they can lick 'em? |
#71
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
" wrote in
oups.com: Have the dog de-clawed. He can't dig with stubs. People do that to cats all the time thereby saving their precious furniture at the expense of the cat's primary defensive and offensive weapon. Dogs don't use their claws/nails for anything except digging. No harm there. cruel is all i can say, you ever see what a animal goes thru after being declawed? My understanding (old memory, may be incorrect) in the case of cats, if they cannot scratch and pull with their claws it is uncomfortable and/or painful. They have to shed the casing. Have often found the intact hollow casings. Providing a post/stand unit of some type with like jute/manilla rope, they will go at quite willingly. I believe when they do the pulling they also leave scent there which promotes bringing them back to "their" place. For the hardcores, pet stores sell strips of double sticky clear film. Virtually invisible unless you know it's there and look for it. Put it in their no-no chosen spot. Absolutely hate it. Change habit quick. Head for new rope stand:-) |
#72
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dog tunneling under chain link fence
"Al Bundy" wrote in message ... " wrote in oups.com: Have the dog de-clawed. He can't dig with stubs. People do that to cats all the time thereby saving their precious furniture at the expense of the cat's primary defensive and offensive weapon. Dogs don't use their claws/nails for anything except digging. No harm there. cruel is all i can say, you ever see what a animal goes thru after being declawed? My understanding (old memory, may be incorrect) in the case of cats, if they cannot scratch and pull with their claws it is uncomfortable and/or painful. They have to shed the casing. Have often found the intact hollow casings. Providing a post/stand unit of some type with like jute/manilla rope, they will go at quite willingly. I believe when they do the pulling they also leave scent there which promotes bringing them back to "their" place. For the hardcores, pet stores sell strips of double sticky clear film. Virtually invisible unless you know it's there and look for it. Put it in their no-no chosen spot. Absolutely hate it. Change habit quick. Head for new rope stand:-) This isn't directed to you specifically.. Please don't declaw animals. Their claws are NOT glorified fingernails. Essentially by declawing them you are removing the ends of their fingers - I can't think of any reason to do that. Get a sisal scratching post for your cats - they honestly prefer those over furniture. Some dogs dig, it's just who they are and you can't stop it except with drastic behavior mods. Either socialize them better and stop chaining them to an engine block in the backyard or get an electronic fence - those work. |
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