One of the screws for my GE panel cover is stripped out. Are those screws
available, can I just use any old screw as a replacement - so long as it
fits of course?

I don't have the model for my panel unfortunately, it isn't clearly marked -
TRP1210? it takes TQL breakers.

Eigenvector wrote:
One of the screws for my GE panel cover is stripped out. Are those screws
available, can I just use any old screw as a replacement - so long as it
fits of course?

I don't have the model for my panel unfortunately, it isn't clearly marked -
TRP1210? it takes TQL breakers.


Hi,
Sounds like you are talking aout electrical panel? You can use any screw
for sure.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:yOu6h.318768$5R2.35592@pd7urf3no...
Eigenvector wrote:
One of the screws for my GE panel cover is stripped out. Are those
screws available, can I just use any old screw as a replacement - so long
as it fits of course?

I don't have the model for my panel unfortunately, it isn't clearly
marked - TRP1210? it takes TQL breakers.
Hi,
Sounds like you are talking aout electrical panel? You can use any screw
for sure.

Yup, it's my main panel. For some reason I was expecting to have to replace
the screws with some odd, off-the wall screw that met stringent UL
requirements or some damn thing.

Eigenvector writes:

Are those screws
available, can I just use any old screw as a replacement - so long as it
fits of course?

The thread is standard and will match up to various screw head types at the
hardware store. You want a "truss head" to match the old one.

In article ,
"Eigenvector" wrote:

One of the screws for my GE panel cover is stripped out. Are those screws
available, can I just use any old screw as a replacement - so long as it
fits of course?

OK if it fits. If the threads in the panel are stripped you will have
to tap out to the next larger size.

--
Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...el-166295-.htm

On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD POST! (that
was already answered)

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD POST! (that
was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 10:57:35 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD POST! (that
was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

Although I understand the reason for safety and codes, most screws (on home breakerboxes) are in the corners. And wires don't easily make right-angle bends. Just my perception on it.

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 10:57:35 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD POST! (that
was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

Whoever wired that panel or futzed around in it was an idiot. The wires should never be near the screws even though the manufacturer supplies blunt tip panel cover screws. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Panel Monster

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink.. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

....now it's safer than if it had a blunt one!

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink.. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

Grind the point off a sharp one. I used to do it all the time if I didn't have any extra panel screws in my hardware kit on the truck. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Screwy Monster

bob_villa
Fri, 02
Sep 2016 17:34:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 10:57:35 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip.
No point is allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD
POST! (that was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt
tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

Although I understand the reason for safety and codes, most screws
(on home breakerboxes) are in the corners. And wires don't easily
make right-angle bends. Just my perception on it.

No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner who
doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might leave
wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might say parts
of the code is all about keeping stupid from being dead.





--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

DerbyDad03
Fri, 02
Sep 2016 15:57:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No
point is allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD
POST! (that was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt
tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

Damn. Whoever wired that panel along with the idiot who used that
screw, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them in the future. I see
what looks to be neutral, ground, and two hot legs, against the
right side and bottom of the panel. Hmm.. another smaller wire mebbe
and/or some insulation at the bottom as well. Either way, it looks
like ****.



--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 18:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

Grind the point off a sharp one. I used to do it all the time if I didn't have any extra panel screws in my hardware kit on the truck. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Screwy Monster
Grind?? What's a diagonal cutter for? My dad broke the handles opff
a few trying to trim screws that were too big or too hard. He
generally kept a few notched ones (made by believing someone else when
they said the power was off) for that kind of use. (worked pretty good
as wire strippers too)

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:47:15 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
bob_villa
Fri, 02
Sep 2016 17:34:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 10:57:35 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:59:31 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:
On 9/2/2016 6:44 AM, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip.
No point is allowed.


Better late than never. You're responding to a TEN YEAR OLD
POST! (that was already answered)

Although, to his credit, he is the only one that mentioned "blunt
tip".

Everybody else just basically said "any screw will do".

Here's a good reason why "any screw will *not* do":

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/ElecHaz206-DFs.jpg

Although I understand the reason for safety and codes, most screws
(on home breakerboxes) are in the corners. And wires don't easily
make right-angle bends. Just my perception on it.

No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner who
doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might leave
wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might say parts
of the code is all about keeping stupid from being dead.

A pointless comment...seriously?

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:57:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 18:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

Grind the point off a sharp one. I used to do it all the time if I didn't have any extra panel screws in my hardware kit on the truck. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Screwy Monster
Grind?? What's a diagonal cutter for? My dad broke the handles opff
a few trying to trim screws that were too big or too hard. He
generally kept a few notched ones (made by believing someone else when
they said the power was off) for that kind of use. (worked pretty good
as wire strippers too)

My Klein lineman's pliers would cut just about anything. The pliers have hardened cutting edges. I've had several and I think I had/have the high leverage version too. Those gol dern thangs are dang near indestructible. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Klein Monster

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner who
doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might leave
wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might say parts
of the code is all about keeping stupid from being dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:57:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 18:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 3:23:10 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

Grind the point off a sharp one. I used to do it all the time if I didn't have any extra panel screws in my hardware kit on the truck. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Screwy Monster
Grind?? What's a diagonal cutter for? My dad broke the handles opff
a few trying to trim screws that were too big or too hard. He
generally kept a few notched ones (made by believing someone else when
they said the power was off) for that kind of use. (worked pretty good
as wire strippers too)

If you cut the head off a nail with dikes, and chuck it in a drill...it will cut pretty well. Not the best choice...I think the picture is a "set-up" and not a real life happening. You could probably find thousands of wrong screws that have never caused a problem. My opinion, and I wouldn't choose a pointed screw for a panel...

On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 07:08:21 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner who
doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might leave
wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might say parts
of the code is all about keeping stupid from being dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.
An dI'll call bull**** on that. Doesn't take an electrician to
install things to code. When they don't allow you to do anything to
your own electrical system, THAT is just to line electricians pockets

Oren posted for all of us...



On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 6:44:05 AM UTC-5, Sportsdad7 wrote:
replying to Tony Hwang, Sportsdad7 wrote:
NO, you can't just use any screw. They MUST be blunt tip. No point is
allowed.
--


Unfortunately, 10 years ago, Tony was working on the electrical panel in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 172. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 horses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, that one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen sink.
They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the disposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Sink Monster

Oh stop it. Ed e-Mailed Tony some weeks ago. His ISP stopped NNTP
service so he didn't bother finding a free NNTP server. Tony lives in
Canada. No animals were harmed during the discovery that Tony is safe
with his family.

Hey Tony, we miss you.

Oh, btw, my breaker panel cover is missing a blunt screw.

That's being blunt...

--
Tekkie

CRNG
Sat, 03 Sep 2016
12:08:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner
who doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might
leave wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might
say parts of the code is all about keeping stupid from being
dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.

I'm not so sure about putting money in electricians pockets in so
much as keeping themselves in a job and better the pockets of the
electrical industry. The electricians themselves are the low person
on the totem pole. GE, Fluke, IDEAL, etc, make tons more when the
code changes requiring this or that type of breaker, etc. We have to
have arc fault breakers in bedrooms now because many fires start in
the bedroom (which doesn't automatically mean the fire was electrical
in nature or that an arc fault could have prevented it if it was).

A few years ago, when we first started installing these damn things
inside the panel, they were very sensitive and an treadmill, etc,
could cause them to trip. That forced the home owner to buy an
additional surge suppression strip that might (didn't help in one or
two cases) prevent the breaker from tripping when they turn on their
vacuum and/or the treadmill or some other piece of exercise
equipment. The sensitivity issue has been cleared up somewhat, but,
you're still talking about a breaker thats $30 or more vs a standard
breaker that's around $3 or so.

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.

Okay.. so, when was the last time you've seen someone who had a
street sign or something mounted to their wall like a poster? What's
the chances should someone have one, that it would actually stay
towards the wall while it slides all the way down the wall to get
between the plug of something and the outlet?


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 5:24:53 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
CRNG
Sat, 03 Sep 2016
12:08:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner
who doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might
leave wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might
say parts of the code is all about keeping stupid from being
dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.

I'm not so sure about putting money in electricians pockets in so
much as keeping themselves in a job and better the pockets of the
electrical industry. The electricians themselves are the low person
on the totem pole. GE, Fluke, IDEAL, etc, make tons more when the
code changes requiring this or that type of breaker, etc. We have to
have arc fault breakers in bedrooms now because many fires start in
the bedroom (which doesn't automatically mean the fire was electrical
in nature or that an arc fault could have prevented it if it was).

A few years ago, when we first started installing these damn things
inside the panel, they were very sensitive and an treadmill, etc,
could cause them to trip. That forced the home owner to buy an
additional surge suppression strip that might (didn't help in one or
two cases) prevent the breaker from tripping when they turn on their
vacuum and/or the treadmill or some other piece of exercise
equipment. The sensitivity issue has been cleared up somewhat, but,
you're still talking about a breaker thats $30 or more vs a standard
breaker that's around $3 or so.

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.

Okay.. so, when was the last time you've seen someone who had a
street sign or something mounted to their wall like a poster? What's
the chances should someone have one, that it would actually stay
towards the wall while it slides all the way down the wall to get
between the plug of something and the outlet?
--


The Army Corps Of Engineers had us electricians installing all outlets with the ground pin at the top back in the 1980's. I always thought it made sense so that's the way I've done it since then. In the early 1970's when consumer ground fault breakers and devices first hit the market, CB radios were tripping the darn overly sensitive things. There was a story going around back then about a guy trying to cut some lumber in his back yard and his home had one of those early newfangled ground fault receptacles outside. Every time he pulled the trigger on his saw, it tripped the ground fault. He dropped an extension cord from his upstairs bedroom and plugged the saw in. Of course he was standing on very wet ground or in a puddle and was electrocuted when he pulled the trigger on his saw. It could an urban legend? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Grounded Monster

Diesel has brought this to us :
CRNG
Sat, 03 Sep 2016
12:08:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner
who doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might
leave wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might
say parts of the code is all about keeping stupid from being
dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.

I'm not so sure about putting money in electricians pockets in so
much as keeping themselves in a job and better the pockets of the
electrical industry. The electricians themselves are the low person
on the totem pole. GE, Fluke, IDEAL, etc, make tons more when the
code changes requiring this or that type of breaker, etc. We have to
have arc fault breakers in bedrooms now because many fires start in
the bedroom (which doesn't automatically mean the fire was electrical
in nature or that an arc fault could have prevented it if it was).

A few years ago, when we first started installing these damn things
inside the panel, they were very sensitive and an treadmill, etc,
could cause them to trip. That forced the home owner to buy an
additional surge suppression strip that might (didn't help in one or
two cases) prevent the breaker from tripping when they turn on their
vacuum and/or the treadmill or some other piece of exercise
equipment. The sensitivity issue has been cleared up somewhat, but,
you're still talking about a breaker thats $30 or more vs a standard
breaker that's around $3 or so.

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.

Okay.. so, when was the last time you've seen someone who had a
street sign or something mounted to their wall like a poster? What's
the chances should someone have one, that it would actually stay
towards the wall while it slides all the way down the wall to get
between the plug of something and the outlet?

Could also be a metal wire for hanging a picture on the wall.

Some newer plugs and outlets are designed with skirts and accomodating
recesses to make this problem moot.

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 5:24:53 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
CRNG
Sat, 03 Sep 2016
12:08:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote in


No, but, sometimes a lazy electrician/wannabe and/or home owner
who doesn't care about the pleasant looking panel aspects might
leave wires chilling a bit too far towards the sides. Some might
say parts of the code is all about keeping stupid from being
dead.

And others might say the "code" is mostly about putting $$$ in the
pockets of electricians.

I'm not so sure about putting money in electricians pockets in so
much as keeping themselves in a job and better the pockets of the
electrical industry. The electricians themselves are the low person
on the totem pole. GE, Fluke, IDEAL, etc, make tons more when the
code changes requiring this or that type of breaker, etc. We have to
have arc fault breakers in bedrooms now because many fires start in
the bedroom (which doesn't automatically mean the fire was electrical
in nature or that an arc fault could have prevented it if it was).

A few years ago, when we first started installing these damn things
inside the panel, they were very sensitive and an treadmill, etc,
could cause them to trip. That forced the home owner to buy an
additional surge suppression strip that might (didn't help in one or
two cases) prevent the breaker from tripping when they turn on their
vacuum and/or the treadmill or some other piece of exercise
equipment. The sensitivity issue has been cleared up somewhat, but,
you're still talking about a breaker thats $30 or more vs a standard
breaker that's around $3 or so.

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now.
To the best of my knowlege there is no mention of the mounting
position of receptacles in past or present code.
HOWEVER - the design of the current receptacles with the ground screw
location makes it sensible to install with the "U" ground down If a
ground were to somehow come loose, gravity would not cause it to
possibly sag onto the live conductor. Not likely, you say?? Perhaps
you are right, but no mopre unlikely than a traffic sign being hung
above and sliding down - getting between the plug and receptacle, and
shorting across the blades of the plug.. And read the lettering cast
into the plasticfront and back. The "strip gauge" lettering on the
back is right side up with the "U" ground down - as is the "15 amp"
125 volt" and "U/L" logo on the front. The UL listing number on the
"top" tab is also oriented to be right side up with the ground down.

The manufacturer's name (in my case Leviton) on the newest product is
upside down when installed ground down - on some older units even that
was oriented to be read clearly with the ground dowm.
The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.

Okay.. so, when was the last time you've seen someone who had a
street sign or something mounted to their wall like a poster? What's
the chances should someone have one, that it would actually stay
towards the wall while it slides all the way down the wall to get
between the plug of something and the outlet?
--


The Army Corps Of Engineers had us electricians installing all outlets with the ground pin at the top back in the 1980's. I always thought it made sense so that's the way I've done it since then. In the early 1970's when consumer ground fault breakers and devices first hit the market, CB radios were tripping the darn overly sensitive things. There was a story going around back then about a guy trying to cut some lumber in his back yard and his home had one of those early newfangled ground fault receptacles outside. Every time he pulled the trigger on his saw, it tripped the ground fault. He dropped an extension cord from his upstairs bedroom and plugged the saw in. Of course he was standing on very wet ground or in a puddle and was electrocuted when he pulled the trigger on his saw. It could an urban legend? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Grounded Monster

I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug position should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on something plugged into the outlet it would hit the grounding lug rather than having a 50-50 chance of landing on the hot lead. This supposedly made it safer.

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 9:42:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug position should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on something plugged into the outlet it would hit the grounding lug rather than having a 50-50 chance of landing on the hot lead. This supposedly made it safer.

Wouldn't it be easier to make a receptacle plate that can deflect from above or below? A raised "V ridge. I've seen electric beds that have short-circuited an outlet from below when being raised.

explained on 9/3/2016 :
I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug position
should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on something plugged
into the outlet it would hit the grounding lug rather than having a 50-50
chance of landing on the hot lead. This supposedly made it safer.

Electricians wiring up rooms in a supermarket here in New Hampshire
told me that when I asked them put them upside down. I thought it
rather odd at the time because many three pronged plugs which lay sort
of flat against the wall when plugged in now have the wires exit the
plug straight up which puts strain on them.

Diesel wrote in news:XnsA678BD119EBC1F7D9A8
@dieselpower.eternal-september.org:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.


A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

Uncle Monster wrote in news:1559120a-ded3-4272-acbd-
:

The Army Corps Of Engineers had us electricians installing all outlets

"us" electricians?? So now you were an electrician too Dufas?

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:34:21 AM UTC-4, Zak W wrote:
Diesel wrote in news:XnsA678BD119EBC1F7D9A8
@dieselpower.eternal-september.org:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.


A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

Actually, I think it's a perfect example of BS period. Can someone point
us the the NEC code section that says a receptacle must go in ground pin up?

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:06:41 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:34:21 AM UTC-4, Zak W wrote:
Diesel wrote in news:XnsA678BD119EBC1F7D9A8
@dieselpower.eternal-september.org:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition. And, if it does hit the hot wire, it's going to send it
right to ground. This all assumes two things: Someone has something
plugged into the outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind
also hanging on the wall above this same outlet.


A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

Actually, I think it's a perfect example of BS period. Can someone point
us the the NEC code section that says a receptacle must go in ground pin up?

The last job I did, the city inspector wanted them up but the engineering department here has their own additions to best practices. The next city over doesn't care because there is nothing specified in the NEC. I always orient them up out of habit and I've seen a metal duplex outlet cover plate come loose and slip down on the prongs. I like it up because I found it easier to insert the plug that way. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster

Sun, 04 Sep 2016 02:06:50 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to
face you. Ground pin up now.
To the best of my knowlege there is no mention of the mounting
position of receptacles in past or present code.

I believe it's a local "code" that's being enforced by some? of the
inspectors around here. It seems to be inconsistent and I couldn't find
anything specifically from NEC discussing it. I don't bring that upto
the inspectors though. It's like wrestling with a pig in the
mud...Sooner or later, you'll realize, the pig is enjoying it.

The manufacturer's name (in my case Leviton) on the newest product
is upside down when installed ground down - on some older units
even that was oriented to be read clearly with the ground dowm.

I personally don't disagree with you.



--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

Zak W
Sun, 04 Sep 2016
06:34:15 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

I should have been more clear previously. This appears to be a 'local
code' that's being semi enforced by some inspectors in this area. I
didn't find anything in the NEC that actually addresses it.






--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

FromTheRafters
Sun, 04 Sep 2016 03:53:38 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

explained on 9/3/2016 :
I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug
position should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on
something plugged into the outlet it would hit the grounding lug
rather than having a 50-50 chance of landing on the hot lead.
This supposedly made it safer.

Electricians wiring up rooms in a supermarket here in New
Hampshire told me that when I asked them put them upside down. I
thought it rather odd at the time because many three pronged plugs
which lay sort of flat against the wall when plugged in now have
the wires exit the plug straight up which puts strain on them.


Well, according to trader_4...

Those electricians, myself, AND, uncle Monster were/are all wrong! it's
total BS. [g] I didn't realize trader_4 knows all the local codes too.
rofl.




--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

trader_4
Sun, 04
Sep 2016 12:06:38 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:34:21 AM UTC-4, Zak W wrote:
Diesel wrote in news:XnsA678BD119EBC1F7D9A8
@dieselpower.eternal-september.org:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to
face you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In
case someone has metal things hanging from the wall, if one
should happen to come loose and side down the wall between the
plug and the outlet,it'll hit the ground pin and most likely,
neutral; no short circuit condition. And, if it does hit the
hot wire, it's going to send it right to ground. This all
assumes two things: Someone has something plugged into the
outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind also hanging
on the wall above this same outlet.


A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

Actually, I think it's a perfect example of BS period. Can
someone point us the the NEC code section that says a receptacle
must go in ground pin up?

Do you find yourself arguing with inspectors often? I wonder if I've
had the pleasure of working with people of your mindset before. If
so, you're the type of person who ****es that inspector off and makes
more, unnecessary (imho) work for us.

We have several inspectors in this area insisting (a polite way to
put it) that we install them ground pin up due to some local code
(that nobody can quote me) they are enforcing. As they have the final
say over the inspection, Myself and the rest of the crew tend to do
what they want us to do. We're just the electricians, not that high
up the totem pole.




--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 3:31:31 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Sun, 04
Sep 2016 12:06:38 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:34:21 AM UTC-4, Zak W wrote:
Diesel wrote in news:XnsA678BD119EBC1F7D9A8
@dieselpower.eternal-september.org:

Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to
face you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In
case someone has metal things hanging from the wall, if one
should happen to come loose and side down the wall between the
plug and the outlet,it'll hit the ground pin and most likely,
neutral; no short circuit condition. And, if it does hit the
hot wire, it's going to send it right to ground. This all
assumes two things: Someone has something plugged into the
outlet and they have a metal poster of some kind also hanging
on the wall above this same outlet.


A perfect example of bull**** electrical code changes.

Actually, I think it's a perfect example of BS period. Can
someone point us the the NEC code section that says a receptacle
must go in ground pin up?

Do you find yourself arguing with inspectors often? I wonder if I've
had the pleasure of working with people of your mindset before. If
so, you're the type of person who ****es that inspector off and makes
more, unnecessary (imho) work for us.


Woah there pilgrim! You posted this:

"Another code change is the way the receptacle is supposed to face
you. Ground pin up now. The reason being I was told.. In case someone
has metal things hanging from the wall, if one should happen to come
loose and side down the wall between the plug and the outlet,it'll
hit the ground pin and most likely, neutral; no short circuit
condition."

In AHR when people say there has been an electrical "code change",
it implies that it's an NEC change. You must have meant that too,
otherwise it's pretty much pointless to just tell everyone here that
there has been a code change if that code change has only made in
your little burg somewhere and you don't even say where that is.
What relevance does it have to the rest of us if it's not a new
NEC code most places then adopt?




We have several inspectors in this area insisting (a polite way to
put it) that we install them ground pin up due to some local code
(that nobody can quote me) they are enforcing.

So now apparently it's not even all the inspectors in your area,
but just some. They can't be much of an inspector if they can't site
the code that they are enforcing.



As they have the final
say over the inspection, Myself and the rest of the crew tend to do
what they want us to do. We're just the electricians, not that high
up the totem pole.


That's fine. But I would think you'd realize that there is a difference
between some local inspectors enforcing something that they can't even site
and a NEC code change that effects much of the whole country. And I'd
hope you wouldn't go around posting about a "code change", when you
now say that so far even the inspectors making you put outlets in
ground pin up, can't site the code behind it.

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 3:31:31 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
FromTheRafters
Sun, 04 Sep 2016 03:53:38 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

explained on 9/3/2016 :
I too had heard or read somewhere that the outlet grounding lug
position should be on the top so that if anything was to fall on
something plugged into the outlet it would hit the grounding lug
rather than having a 50-50 chance of landing on the hot lead.
This supposedly made it safer.

Electricians wiring up rooms in a supermarket here in New
Hampshire told me that when I asked them put them upside down. I
thought it rather odd at the time because many three pronged plugs
which lay sort of flat against the wall when plugged in now have
the wires exit the plug straight up which puts strain on them.


Well, according to trader_4...

Those electricians, myself, AND, uncle Monster were/are all wrong! it's
total BS. [g] I didn't realize trader_4 knows all the local codes too.
rofl.


I wouldn't be laughing if I were you. You made a post that there has
been a "code change" that now requires receptacles to go in ground pin
up. Tossing it out that way to everyone reading it, implies that it's
an NEC code change, which is why I said I was skeptical and asked if
anyone has an NEC cite. Now you have now switched to some inspectors
requiring this locally, but unable to give you any cite to anything
that has it in the code. If you're an electrician, you don't have
access to the local codes? And note, I'm not saying you should
argue with the inspector, only that when you post here that code
now requires that receptacles go in ground pin up, it's misleading
if it's just some local inspectors and you can't even find it in
code anywhere. It leaves people reading this thinking that if
they're putting in a receptacle it has to go ground up.

And IDK what's going on in NH, but I agree with Rafters that the
flat cables I've seen are going to be a mess when used upside down.
More people will probably get hurt tripping over those cables then
were ever hurt from a metal plate somehow falling down onto outlet
pins. I've tripped over cords, I've never had a metal plate fall
and short out a plug before.