FIRST, VIEW GRAPHIC OF WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HE
http://www.intergate.com/~tobeornot2...D_SHELVING.gif
__________________________________________________ ____________
See that double-riveted item on the right? It's called a "beam" and I
need to have it in a non-standard length (58" to be precise).

Now, I see two options available, as follows:
A. Have mfg. custom-cut/weld these beams (possibly very expensive)
B. Purchase standardized beams (eg. 60") and have them welded
__locally__

My question has to do with B., above.

What kind of facility am I looking for to do such work? Is this called
"forging"? welding? Am I looking for a "foundry"? or is this type of
work referred to as something else?

50-Sumpin'

This is a simple machine shop job. They will just cut off to desired
length with a band saw, and braze on the rivets, which can be drilled
or punched out of the old piece. You can paint the results to match.
Time issue. I'll call around before I started the project. If you are
in a major metropolitan area, I would think there are plenty of welding
shops. Shouldn't take more than an hour's time, with the right tools.
Keep us posted on the results.

professorpaul wrote:
This is a simple machine shop job. They will just cut off to desired
length with a band saw, and braze on the rivets, which can be drilled
or punched out of the old piece. You can paint the results to match.
Time issue. I'll call around before I started the project. If you are
in a major metropolitan area, I would think there are plenty of welding
shops. Shouldn't take more than an hour's time, with the right tools.
Keep us posted on the results.

Ah!

Now forgive me because I truly don't even know how to begin this Paul:
What exactly am I looking in my local Yellow Pages (or local online)
for? I don't even know the word to look up, but surely it isn't
"machine shop" ??

Yeah, I'm in the CA Bay Area so should be no problem.

50-Sumpin'

On 11 Nov 2006 14:37:04 -0800, "50 SOMETHING GAL"
wrote:

professorpaul wrote:
This is a simple machine shop job. They will just cut off to desired
length with a band saw, and braze on the rivets, which can be drilled
or punched out of the old piece. You can paint the results to match.
Time issue. I'll call around before I started the project. If you are
in a major metropolitan area, I would think there are plenty of welding
shops. Shouldn't take more than an hour's time, with the right tools.
Keep us posted on the results.

Ah!

Now forgive me because I truly don't even know how to begin this Paul:
What exactly am I looking in my local Yellow Pages (or local online)
for? I don't even know the word to look up, but surely it isn't
"machine shop" ??

Yeah, I'm in the CA Bay Area so should be no problem.

50-Sumpin'

Is this why San Diego got all the lawyers?

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Oren wrote:
Is this why San Diego got all the lawyers?

No. You can thank Tom Tancredo for that.

On 11 Nov 2006 15:09:19 -0800, "50 SOMETHING GAL"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
Is this why San Diego got all the lawyers?

No. You can thank Tom Tancredo for that.

Never heard of the bum, I have of a "machine shop".

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

In article . com,
50 SOMETHING GAL wrote:
FIRST, VIEW GRAPHIC OF WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HE
http://www.intergate.com/~tobeornot2...D_SHELVING.gif
_________________________________________________ _____________
See that double-riveted item on the right? It's called a "beam" and I
need to have it in a non-standard length (58" to be precise).

Now, I see two options available, as follows:
A. Have mfg. custom-cut/weld these beams (possibly very expensive)
B. Purchase standardized beams (eg. 60") and have them welded
__locally__

My question has to do with B., above.

What kind of facility am I looking for to do such work? Is this called
"forging"? welding? Am I looking for a "foundry"? or is this type of
work referred to as something else?

50-Sumpin'


Any welding shop could do this job at a reasonable price. Check
yellow pages. But, if this is going to be permanently assembled,(or
even if it isn't) why not just cut the beam to length with a hacksaw,
drill 2 holes, and use nuts & bolts at that end?
--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

You have no need to adjust the "buttons" other than for looks.
1/4x20 bolts and nuts are more than adequate. Cut the pieces to
the length required. Drill holes at the same locations as the
buttons. Nut and bolt as required. You could use carriage bolts
to keep the head profile fairly close to the buttons.

If you go to a welder, the paint will be scorched and you will
probably end up painting the frame if you can find a good match on
the factory paint.

___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"50 SOMETHING GAL" wrote in message
ups.com...
FIRST, VIEW GRAPHIC OF WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HE
http://www.intergate.com/~tobeornot2...D_SHELVING.gif
__________________________________________________ ____________
See that double-riveted item on the right? It's called a "beam"
and I
need to have it in a non-standard length (58" to be precise).

Now, I see two options available, as follows:
A. Have mfg. custom-cut/weld these beams (possibly very
expensive)
B. Purchase standardized beams (eg. 60") and have them welded
__locally__

My question has to do with B., above.

What kind of facility am I looking for to do such work? Is this
called
"forging"? welding? Am I looking for a "foundry"? or is this
type of
work referred to as something else?

50-Sumpin'

Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh, my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal jobs . .
.. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I take your point about the nut/bolt model however -- and if anything,
that would be considerably more __stable__ than a rivet approach
(especially here in the CA Bay Area, where, to put in perfunctorily, my
house sits directly ON the earthquake fault lol). So let's look at
that for a moment:

Referring back to the graphic I linked (above) you can see that these
beams have a "lip" -- necessary, of course, because that's what the
wood (or other) shelf sits on.

QUESTION
Where would I locate these pre-"lipped" thick steel beams?

I know it seems like I keep asking the same question, but I truly don't
know where to begin researching this. Just . . . "STEEL"?

Thanks guys. A really innovative conversation. It's expanded my
thinking considerably!

50-Sumpin'

50 SOMETHING GAL wrote:
Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh, my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal jobs . .
. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I take your point about the nut/bolt model however -- and if anything,
that would be considerably more __stable__ than a rivet approach
(especially here in the CA Bay Area, where, to put in perfunctorily, my
house sits directly ON the earthquake fault lol). So let's look at
that for a moment:

Referring back to the graphic I linked (above) you can see that these
beams have a "lip" -- necessary, of course, because that's what the
wood (or other) shelf sits on.

QUESTION
Where would I locate these pre-"lipped" thick steel beams?

I know it seems like I keep asking the same question, but I truly don't
know where to begin researching this. Just . . . "STEEL"?

Thanks guys. A really innovative conversation. It's expanded my
thinking considerably!

50-Sumpin'


May I suggest you start by backing up and describe exactly what it is
you are trying to do? If it's shelving, and it sounds like you don't
already have the materials that lock you in, there may be other
straightforward solutions.

Are you asking where to buy it, what to buy, or how to put it
together?


Probably the biggest manufacturer of the stuff is Penco, though I
am sure there are others. Grainger's carries it, or a yellow
pages look at shelving, warehouse storage materials, or similar
should get you there.

The "how" and "what do they make" can be handled he
http://www.pencoproducts.com/Pages/rivet.htm If you live in
earthquake country you may want to bolt the shelving to the wall a
few times. If you think the stuff on the shelves will be shaken
off, you can install all the cross beams upside down to keep stuff
in. We rigged a walk-through truck this way and it has worked out
quite well.

If you're asking about the cuts and the drilling it is either time
to get independent, make friends with someone mechanically
inclined, or go to someone's shop. You do realize that you need
to buy the shelves separately and that the best economy is to cut
your own from sheet goods.

-A fiber blade in your circular saw will cut the stuff and so will
a hacksaw. Your drill is more than adequate to drill a few 1/4"
holes in this stuff with a sharp drill bit.
-The friend thing, you're on your own.
-A muffler shop or a sheetmetal shop would both be good places to
find someone to cut and drill the pieces for you.
-Almost any handyman or carpenter can handle the entire project.
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"50 SOMETHING GAL" wrote in message
oups.com...
Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them
down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh,
my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal
jobs . .
. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have
to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I take your point about the nut/bolt model however -- and if
anything,
that would be considerably more __stable__ than a rivet approach
(especially here in the CA Bay Area, where, to put in
perfunctorily, my
house sits directly ON the earthquake fault lol). So let's look
at
that for a moment:

Referring back to the graphic I linked (above) you can see that
these
beams have a "lip" -- necessary, of course, because that's what
the
wood (or other) shelf sits on.

QUESTION
Where would I locate these pre-"lipped" thick steel beams?

I know it seems like I keep asking the same question, but I
truly don't
know where to begin researching this. Just . . . "STEEL"?

Thanks guys. A really innovative conversation. It's expanded
my
thinking considerably!

50-Sumpin'

On 12 Nov 2006 07:21:12 -0800, 50 SOMETHING GAL wrote:

Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh, my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal jobs . .
. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I've put together many of this type of shelf. The steel isn't as thick as
you might think. Look at the size of the rivets. If THICK steel beams were
required to support the weight, don't you think that more than two small
rivets would be required, too.

As others have suggested, cut them yourself and use bolts.

In article .com,
50 SOMETHING GAL wrote:
Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh, my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal jobs . .
. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I take your point about the nut/bolt model however -- and if anything,
that would be considerably more __stable__ than a rivet approach
(especially here in the CA Bay Area, where, to put in perfunctorily, my
house sits directly ON the earthquake fault lol). So let's look at
that for a moment:

Referring back to the graphic I linked (above) you can see that these
beams have a "lip" -- necessary, of course, because that's what the
wood (or other) shelf sits on.

QUESTION
Where would I locate these pre-"lipped" thick steel beams?



I thought you already had the parts and needed to cut a section down
to fit. Are you installing something from scratch? There are several
manufacturers of steel shelving of this type. I'm on the east coast,
don't know about suppliers in Ca, but Grainger, MSC, and McMaster-Carr
are national level companies that supply all kinds of industrial
materials. Price-wise you'll likely do better with a local supplier.
Check for warehouse supplies, shelving, etc in the yellow pages. If
you have a "business to business" yellow pages in your area use that.

I very often can find local suppliers for things on the web just by
searching for the item & also including the name of my city & state in
the search terms.

--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

Hi again Dan . . .

Yes, my power tools may be "more than adequate" but . . . my hand
isn't. I don't do well with precision drilling (or circular sawing
for that matter) when the material is STEEL.

I hopped over to TRUELOCAL.COM and located a number of forges that are
within about 20 miles of my house and I think at this point I'll start
with one or two of those . . . and build out.

To the gentleman who inquired what exactly this project was, an
expanded discussion can be found here, with the added attraction that
it is a vBulletin forum (and thus a bit more flexible viz graphics).
Hop on in and participate:
http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...ead.php?t=4614

This is an extremely creative discussion and I have to say I am so
impressed with some of the suggestions. The more I think about the
option of bolting the unit together, the better I like it.

Thanks guys.

You could build a 48" unit and keep the brooms, mops, and
umbrellas in the tall end, or stack it full of 6" or larger PVC
pipe for rat holeing all manner of short stuff.

Are you a widow or a widower?
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"50 SOMETHING GAL" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi again Dan . . .

Yes, my power tools may be "more than adequate" but . . . my
hand
isn't. I don't do well with precision drilling (or circular
sawing
for that matter) when the material is STEEL.

I hopped over to TRUELOCAL.COM and located a number of forges
that are
within about 20 miles of my house and I think at this point I'll
start
with one or two of those . . . and build out.

To the gentleman who inquired what exactly this project was, an
expanded discussion can be found here, with the added attraction
that
it is a vBulletin forum (and thus a bit more flexible viz
graphics).
Hop on in and participate:
http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...ead.php?t=4614

This is an extremely creative discussion and I have to say I am
so
impressed with some of the suggestions. The more I think about
the
option of bolting the unit together, the better I like it.

Thanks guys.

DanG wrote:
You could build a 48" unit and keep the brooms, mops, and
umbrellas in the tall end, or stack it full of 6" or larger PVC
pipe for rat holeing all manner of short stuff.

Are you a widow or a widower?

Ha ha, got me. Yup yup I mean widOW. That rattling sound you hear is
my brain trying to dump its rivets lol.

No sir, either this baby is using every available inch or I'm not going
to build it. When you open these closet doors you're going to see
wall-to-wall SHELVING. I'm also seriously thinking about covering the
plywood with sheet metal so that items can slide out of there easier;
but first thing's first. This is an interior closet, as well, so it
will maintain more level temperature for the storage of wine and beer.
I'm really going to have fun with this now that I'm beginning to
visualize it.

I'll report back on how the project is progressing once I've lined up
the shop. It would be good for others who begin looking at clothes
stored in auxilliary closets with something like murder in their eye
and thinking "Ski Suit? I don' need no stinking Ski Suit! Help me put
these 25 lb. bags of RICE somewhere!"

It's amazing how your priorities change as you get old and decrepit
lol.

50s

Rather than the expense of sheet metal on the shelving, you can
buy sheets of MDF with one or both sides covered in white Melamine
(think the finish coat of Formica without the pretty picture)

Rice? Beer? Wine? I'm starting to wonder if you're my kind of
girl. A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and you beside me . . . . .
I'll be fat, drunk, and in trouble.
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"50 SOMETHING GAL" wrote in message
oups.com...
DanG wrote:
You could build a 48" unit and keep the brooms, mops, and
umbrellas in the tall end, or stack it full of 6" or larger PVC
pipe for rat holeing all manner of short stuff.

Are you a widow or a widower?

Ha ha, got me. Yup yup I mean widOW. That rattling sound you
hear is
my brain trying to dump its rivets lol.

No sir, either this baby is using every available inch or I'm
not going
to build it. When you open these closet doors you're going to
see
wall-to-wall SHELVING. I'm also seriously thinking about
covering the
plywood with sheet metal so that items can slide out of there
easier;
but first thing's first. This is an interior closet, as well,
so it
will maintain more level temperature for the storage of wine and
beer.
I'm really going to have fun with this now that I'm beginning to
visualize it.

I'll report back on how the project is progressing once I've
lined up
the shop. It would be good for others who begin looking at
clothes
stored in auxilliary closets with something like murder in their
eye
and thinking "Ski Suit? I don' need no stinking Ski Suit! Help
me put
these 25 lb. bags of RICE somewhere!"

It's amazing how your priorities change as you get old and
decrepit
lol.

50s

!!!!!!!
. .
o

Be honest: You really want me for my POWER TOOLS.

Seriously . . . MDF would be an outstanding solution, but for the fact
that I can't curl it. I see the edge of these (1") plywood shelves
taking a beating to put it bluntly, and while I can certainly locate
finishing materials (acrylic, plastic, metal etc.), the problem is the
SEAM: Things will be easy to slide in but they'll hit that seam when
they slide out.

It may turn out to be cost prohibitive to use sheet metal in any event.
I'll just have to see.

50-Sumpin'

Those beams aren't that thick typically, and to cut them all you need is a
very inexpensive hacksaw, that's right, a $15 hand saw, it will cut a
surprisingly large piece of steel with nothing but hand power very easily,
and do a nice job of it too, you just need to do a little manual labor. Sure
there are power tools ( sawzall or band saw for a start) that will do the
job faster, but a hacksaw will do it quite well. Circular saws aren't for
metal ( unless it's a special one, not something in a typical household) so
forget that, just cut them by hand.

Nuts and bolts and holes from your power drill for the rest and you should
be set.

--

Mike S.

"50 SOMETHING GAL" wrote in message
oups.com...
Larry & Dan . . .

Thanks guys.

Well the reason I'm hesitant to locate the beams and cut them down
myself is that I simply don't have the tools for such work. Oh, my
circular saw (and handheld power drill) can handle light metal jobs . .
. but realize that these steel beams are T.H.I.C.K. They have to be to
handle the weight loads they typically support.

I take your point about the nut/bolt model however -- and if anything,
that would be considerably more __stable__ than a rivet approach
(especially here in the CA Bay Area, where, to put in perfunctorily, my
house sits directly ON the earthquake fault lol). So let's look at
that for a moment:

According to 50 SOMETHING GAL :

Seriously . . . MDF would be an outstanding solution, but for the fact
that I can't curl it. I see the edge of these (1") plywood shelves
taking a beating to put it bluntly, and while I can certainly locate
finishing materials (acrylic, plastic, metal etc.), the problem is the
SEAM: Things will be easy to slide in but they'll hit that seam when
they slide out.

I don't think you'll find that pantry shelves really take that much
of a beating. Presuming that there's good solid supports under it,
MDF or plywood or melamine/particle board would be about the best
bet. You can use iron-on edging for, or, you could round over the
edge of MDF.

[You can get the sheets cut at most suppliers.]

Or, if you can compromise on 24" depth, you could use "postformed"
(formica) countertops. For a pantry, you can use perfectly servicable
"seconds" for much less cost.

It may turn out to be cost prohibitive to use sheet metal in any event.
I'll just have to see.

I don't think you'll like sheet metal shelving. Very noisy.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Wanna save some trouble and time?
Just go ahead and get "beams" longer than you need, then cut A SECTION
FROM THE MIDDLE to make them the right length using a die grinder or a
dremel with a metal cutting wheel then take them down to have them
welded at a machine shop.

Or, you could just have them mess with welding rivets, but that's going
to be expensive and the point of failure. As an amature welder, I can
almost guarantee two things... 1) these beams are "low carbon" steel
and are more prone to bending instead of breaking, which is easier to
weld but doesn't have near as much strength. 2) fitting a mig head or
tig head under that rivet is going to be tough. I'd go ahead and
drill from the back and weld them in that way, but this would raise the
carbon content of the rivet (the point of maximum pressure)

I guarantee your better off having a fella weld a straight seem like
that...especially low carbon steel that has been prepped (as in it's
clean of paint, rust) with a wire wheel before it makes it to my shop.
If you bring in a bunch of these beams at once, and they're all
prepped properly the job should cost you a grand total of about $2-$5 a
piece, depending on how busy the shop is that afternoon.

On 12 Nov 2006 09:44:30 -0800, "50 SOMETHING GAL"
wrote:

Hi again Dan . . .

Yes, my power tools may be "more than adequate" but . . . my hand
isn't. I don't do well with precision drilling (or circular sawing
for that matter) when the material is STEEL.

I hopped over to TRUELOCAL.COM and located a number of forges that are
within about 20 miles of my house and I think at this point I'll start
with one or two of those . . . and build out.

To the gentleman who inquired what exactly this project was, an
expanded discussion can be found here, with the added attraction that
it is a vBulletin forum (and thus a bit more flexible viz graphics).
Hop on in and participate:
http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...ead.php?t=4614

This is an extremely creative discussion and I have to say I am so
impressed with some of the suggestions. The more I think about the
option of bolting the unit together, the better I like it.


If you decide you WANT to do the job yourself, you can drill
holes accurately in iron as follows:

Mark where you want the hole to be. Drill a hole in
a small block of wood, and clamp the wood onto the
iron with a C-clamp. Pour a little oil
(Olive oil, if you haven't got any cutting oil)
into the hole, and shove the drill into the hole
in the block, and drill away.