Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?

I understand the asymetric nature of my roof (the top being about foot
wider than the bottom) is called a California Roof (or California Rake) -
but where does the name "California Roof" come from.

Before my husband died, we were planning on remodeling the house so I am
continuing on with the plans despite the setbacks for us and the kids.
There is so much that I don't know but one of the questions is about this
term "California Roof" (also "California Rake") that he and many others
bandy about as if they actually know what it means and where the name comes
from. I googled and googled and googled but could not find where this term
Califonria Roof (or Rake) comes from. Everyone knows what it is but not
where the strange word comes from in the first place.

After asking everyone I could but to no avail so I ask you experts.

When did people first start using the term "California Roof" and why?

ChitaShines wrote:
Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?
[snip]
After asking everyone I could but to no avail so I ask you experts.

When did people first start using the term "California Roof" and why?

This finding at Google-Books may be a starter for the necessary
research:

Roof Framing - Page 239
by Marshall Gross - Reference - 1984
In Chapter 12 we'll cover the irregular California roof. It's like this
roof
except that the pitch on the addition is different from the pitch of
the main ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22C...e=UTF-8&tab=gp

tinwhistler wrote:

This finding at Google-Books may be a starter for the necessary
research:

Roof Framing - Page 239
by Marshall Gross - Reference - 1984
In Chapter 12 we'll cover the irregular California roof. It's like this
roof
except that the pitch on the addition is different from the pitch of
the main ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22C...e=UTF-8&tab=gp

A peek at the Table of Contents of the Gross work (link above) shows
that Ch 7, beginning at p. 233, has an extended discussion of the
"California Roof." I think it probably refers to a low-pitched roof,
suitable for a climate not having a great deal of rainfall but enough
to warrant a pitch in the roof. Living in San Diego in a townhouse
having a pitched roof, I'm grateful for that pitch even though we only
get 10" of rain per year. Flat roofs here are known to have leakage
problems frequently.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

tinwhistler wrote:
tinwhistler wrote:

This finding at Google-Books may be a starter for the necessary
research:

Roof Framing - Page 239
by Marshall Gross - Reference - 1984
In Chapter 12 we'll cover the irregular California roof. It's like this
roof
except that the pitch on the addition is different from the pitch of
the main ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22C...e=UTF-8&tab=gp

A peek at the Table of Contents of the Gross work (link above) shows
that Ch 7, beginning at p. 233, has an extended discussion of the
"California Roof." I think it probably refers to a low-pitched roof,
suitable for a climate not having a great deal of rainfall but enough
to warrant a pitch in the roof. Living in San Diego in a townhouse
having a pitched roof, I'm grateful for that pitch even though we only
get 10" of rain per year. Flat roofs here are known to have leakage
problems frequently.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

Flat roofs are a design that should be banned. They are a maintenance
nightmare and will leak later if not sooner. Our town put out many
millions reframing the HS to turn it into a pitched roof rather than
continue paying and paying and paying to fix leaks with no success.
The courthouse and jail are still waiting to be done (and still
leaking).

Harry K

On 5 Nov 2006 16:26:09 -0800, tinwhistler wrote:
When did people first start using the term "California Roof" and why?
This finding at Google-Books may be a starter for the necessary
research:
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22C...e=UTF-8&tab=gp

Hello TinWhistler,
I do thank you for your help but, not having the book in hand, it sure
doesn't seem like the book is explaining the "origin" of the term
"California Roof".

The book seems to explain how to build a "California Roof" but not whence
the name "California Roof".

Why wouldn't this roofing technique be called a "New Jersey" roof for
example? Or a "Low-Pitched Roof". Or a "Hot-Climate Roof"?

Is there any way to find out who coined the word "California Roof"?

On 5 Nov 2006 20:14:06 -0800, Harry K wrote:
Flat roofs are a design that should be banned.

Hello Harry,

A "California Roof" isn't a flat roof or even a 'flatter' roof.
It's a roof where the top line at the peak is longer than the bottom line
at the eaves.

But, knowing what a California Roof is does nothing to tell us whence the
term California Roof.

Does anyone know where the term "California Roof" originated and why?

ChitaShines wrote:
On 5 Nov 2006 16:26:09 -0800, tinwhistler wrote:
When did people first start using the term "California Roof" and why?
This finding at Google-Books may be a starter for the necessary
research:
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22C...e=UTF-8&tab=gp

Hello TinWhistler,
I do thank you for your help but, not having the book in hand, it sure
doesn't seem like the book is explaining the "origin" of the term
"California Roof".

The book seems to explain how to build a "California Roof" but not whence
the name "California Roof".

Why wouldn't this roofing technique be called a "New Jersey" roof for
example? Or a "Low-Pitched Roof". Or a "Hot-Climate Roof"?

Is there any way to find out who coined the word "California Roof"?

Finding the true origin of any word or phrase can be exceedingly
difficult. All I offered was a starting point for research, a target
-- if anyone can come up with a sighting that antedates 1984, an older
target is created. Having followed the postings at the American
Dialect Society for considerable time periods, I've seen fairly
well-researched origins antedated by years, even centuries. Very few
experienced word-origin researchers think that a California sports
writer who credited "jazz" to a rookie baseball pitcher in 1913
actually ended the quest for that origin -- it's an on-going process.
There are quite a number of solid contributors at AUE who are
particularly good researchers, frequently "pushing envelopes" back
further in time on such origins. Regrettably, I don't have their
resources (no newspaper archive subscriptions) or their intelligence or
patient perseverance to get comparable results. Maybe if you persist a
bit more you'll get real help, as there are experts who do read many
postings here.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a hot rod
that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an East Coast Rake,
which is higher in the front.

HTH

"ChitaShines" wrote in message
...
Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?

I understand the asymetric nature of my roof (the top being about foot
wider than the bottom) is called a California Roof (or California Rake) -
but where does the name "California Roof" come from.

Before my husband died, we were planning on remodeling the house so I am
continuing on with the plans despite the setbacks for us and the kids.
There is so much that I don't know but one of the questions is about this
term "California Roof" (also "California Rake") that he and many others
bandy about as if they actually know what it means and where the name
comes
from. I googled and googled and googled but could not find where this term
Califonria Roof (or Rake) comes from. Everyone knows what it is but not
where the strange word comes from in the first place.

After asking everyone I could but to no avail so I ask you experts.

When did people first start using the term "California Roof" and why?

"ChitaShines" wrote in message
...

Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?

Because this term is (a) architectural and (b) territorial,
the answer will be found only in Californian architectural
sources. This is where Google fails us, casting its net
too widely, but a library meets the need, especially
one that collects professional journals of American
architects.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote:
"ChitaShines" wrote in message

Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?

Because this term is (a) architectural and (b) territorial,
the answer will be found only in Californian architectural
sources.

People in California wouldn't be the ones to refer to it that way. All
over the country people sell "New York Bagels" - except in NY where
they just sell bagels.

R

ChitaShines wrote:
On 5 Nov 2006 20:14:06 -0800, Harry K wrote:
Flat roofs are a design that should be banned.

Hello Harry,

A "California Roof" isn't a flat roof or even a 'flatter' roof.
It's a roof where the top line at the peak is longer than the bottom line
at the eaves.

But, knowing what a California Roof is does nothing to tell us whence the
term California Roof.

Does anyone know where the term "California Roof" originated and why?

Oops. Must have been a senior moment. I have no idea how that got
there. I was replying to a post somewhere about leaks in flat roofs.

Harry K

Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a hot
rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an East
Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall the sequence
to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the back only.
Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having the rear higher than
the front. Then, along came the *lowriders*, but that was mainly a Mexican
thing. The last suspension-altering quirk was raising the body of the car
or truck to about eye level, but I have no idea what special term, if any,
is applied to that practice.

I have never heard of "California Rake" and "California Roof".
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

tinwhistler wrote:

[snip]
Very few
experienced word-origin researchers think that a California sports
writer who credited "jazz" to a rookie baseball pitcher in 1913
actually ended the quest for that origin -- it's an on-going process.
[snip]

As a footnote, I'll add an excerpt from Gerald Cohen's posting at ADS
in Jan 2005:

1) A bibliographic reference is my compilation (with due credit given)
"_Jazz_ Revisited: On The Origin Of The Term--Draft #2" in: Comments on
Etymology, vol. 32, no 4-5 (Dec.2002/Jan. 2003, 91 pp. --- Draft #3
will appear sometime in the next 12 months incorporating the later
disicussion.

2) In 1913, "jazz" was heralded as a new word which had just entered
the language, and the first attestations were in connection with
baseball. There were none at this time--none at all--in reference to
music. As for the sexual use of "jazz," this must have come some time
after 1913. Even if the worldly-wise sports writers of the San
Francisco Bulletin were unaware of the sexual meaning of "jazz" (had it
existed then), someone would have certainly tapped them on the shoulder
to clue them in. The term could not have been used repeatedly as it was
in the 1913 baseball columns if it had a sexual meaning at that time.

3) As for "jazz" referring to a type of music in New Orleans prior to
1913, there are no contemporary attestations of this--none, zip, nada.

4) Daniel Cassidy attaches importance to the term "jazz" being first
used by Irishmen (Gleeson, Slattery); Slattery reportedly first heard
it as an incantation in a crapshooting game he happened to witness. But
Gleeson's Irish background had absolutely nothing to do with his
acquiring and then using the term. And Slattery apparently didn't use
the term in 1913 beyond telling Gleeson the story about the
crapshooting game. Also, the crapshooters might have been Irish, but
they just as plausibly could have been African-American.

5) The etymology of "jazz" is still open for discussion. I.e., if the
crapshooting story is correct (and I find it credible; all the rest of
Gleeson's 1938 account--except for one minor detail--is validated in
the 1913 newspapers), the crapshooting "jazz" (in: "Come on, the old
jazz!") might plausibly derive from now obsolete "jasm" (energy,
force). The incantation would then have meant roughly "May the force be
with me."

6) So bringing Irish into the picture adds nothing to what we already
know and is based on no evidence other than a possible similarity in
sound (how close?) between "jazz" and Irish teas (sp.?).

7) A remaining point of uncertainty concerns the very few attestations
of "jazz" in 1912, so named by Portland pitcher Ben Henderson because
(according to Henderson), his jazz pitch "wobbles". My guess (and it is
only that) is that it is somehow connected with "jag" (intoxication;
"jags" in plural?). Now, if some similar-sounding Irish word meaning
"wobble" could be found, maybe an Irish connection would be worthy of
further consideration here.
[end excerpt]

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:21:41 -0800, "Skitt"
wrote:

Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a hot
rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an East
Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall the sequence
to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the back only.
Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having the rear higher than
the front. Then, along came the *lowriders*, but that was mainly a Mexican
thing. The last suspension-altering quirk was raising the body of the car
or truck to about eye level, but I have no idea what special term, if any,
is applied to that practice.

Whoa! You left out a whole era between the rake and the lowrider:
the channeled hot rods. "Chopped and channeled" meant lowering the
roof by chopping off parts of the windows and window pillars.
Channeled meant fastening the frame higher in the body to lower the
body. "Channeled" was used long-before "lowrider" was used.

Here's a chopped and channeled 1949 Ford:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...original49.jpg




--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Tony Cooper wrote:
"Skitt" wrote:
Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a hot
rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an East
Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall the
sequence to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the
back only. Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having
the rear higher than the front. Then, along came the *lowriders*,
but that was mainly a Mexican thing. The last suspension-altering
quirk was raising the body of the car or truck to about eye level,
but I have no idea what special term, if any, is applied to that
practice.

Whoa! You left out a whole era between the rake and the lowrider:
the channeled hot rods. "Chopped and channeled" meant lowering the
roof by chopping off parts of the windows and window pillars.
Channeled meant fastening the frame higher in the body to lower the
body. "Channeled" was used long-before "lowrider" was used.

Here's a chopped and channeled 1949 Ford:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...original49.jpg

You're right, of course. I forgot about that.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

ChitaShines wrote:
[...]
A "California Roof" isn't a flat roof or even a 'flatter' roof.
It's a roof where the top line at the peak is longer than the bottom line
at the eaves.

Can't say I'm familiar either with the term or with examples, although
some European cottages that were the model for the Witch's Gingerbread
House seem to stick out farther at the peak than at the eaves.

But, knowing what a California Roof is does nothing to tell us whence the
term California Roof.

Occasionally, it points out who might have started using the term.


Does anyone know where the term "California Roof" originated and why?

I haven't a clue. But maybe RicodJour is right that the term is
foreign to California. It would be foreign to Oregon, too, if my
memory serves.

(the google book link didn't come up with an Owens book for me, and the
Sunset magazine from 1898 looks to be a "in California [dramatic pause]
roof gardens are common" thing. There might be a few roof gardens
left out here, but that doesn't help the question in hand.)

/dps

/dps

Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:21:41 -0800, "Skitt"
wrote:

Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a
hot
rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an
East
Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall the
sequence to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the
back only. Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having
the rear higher than the front. Then, along came the *lowriders*,
but that was mainly a Mexican thing. The last suspension-altering
quirk was raising the body of the car or truck to about eye level,
but I have no idea what special term, if any, is applied to that
practice.

Whoa! You left out a whole era between the rake and the lowrider:
the channeled hot rods. "Chopped and channeled" meant lowering the
roof by chopping off parts of the windows and window pillars.
Channeled meant fastening the frame higher in the body to lower the
body. "Channeled" was used long-before "lowrider" was used.

Here's a chopped and channeled 1949 Ford:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...original49.jpg

Think it's possible to go too far?
http://www.fototime.com/4A0717D578A890D/standard.jpg

--
Frank ess

"Frank ess" wrote in message
...
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:21:41 -0800, "Skitt"
wrote:

Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a hot
rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to an East
Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall the
sequence to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the
back only. Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having
the rear higher than the front. Then, along came the *lowriders*,
but that was mainly a Mexican thing. The last suspension-altering
quirk was raising the body of the car or truck to about eye level,
but I have no idea what special term, if any, is applied to that
practice.

Whoa! You left out a whole era between the rake and the lowrider:
the channeled hot rods. "Chopped and channeled" meant lowering the
roof by chopping off parts of the windows and window pillars.
Channeled meant fastening the frame higher in the body to lower the
body. "Channeled" was used long-before "lowrider" was used.

Here's a chopped and channeled 1949 Ford:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...original49.jpg

Think it's possible to go too far?
http://www.fototime.com/4A0717D578A890D/standard.jpg

--
Frank ess

This is about as far as one can go.
http://www.decorides.com/scrapezephyr.htm

Chas Hurst wrote:
"Frank ess" wrote in message
...
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:21:41 -0800, "Skitt"
wrote:

Chas Hurst wrote:

Dunno about a California roof, but a California Rake describes a
hot rod that is higher in the rear than the front. As opposed to
an East Coast Rake, which is higher in the front.

Thinking back to my younger days (also in California), I recall
the
sequence to be roughly like this:

First, cars or hot rods were *lowered*, but that was done to the
back only. Later, the *rake* was established, and that was having
the rear higher than the front. Then, along came the
*lowriders*,
but that was mainly a Mexican thing. The last
suspension-altering
quirk was raising the body of the car or truck to about eye
level,
but I have no idea what special term, if any, is applied to that
practice.

Whoa! You left out a whole era between the rake and the lowrider:
the channeled hot rods. "Chopped and channeled" meant lowering
the
roof by chopping off parts of the windows and window pillars.
Channeled meant fastening the frame higher in the body to lower
the
body. "Channeled" was used long-before "lowrider" was used.

Here's a chopped and channeled 1949 Ford:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...original49.jpg

Think it's possible to go too far?
http://www.fototime.com/4A0717D578A890D/standard.jpg

--
Frank ess

This is about as far as one can go.
http://www.decorides.com/scrapezephyr.htm

O my.

ChitaShines wrote:
Where does the term "California Roof"
come from (historically)?

I understand the asymetric nature of my roof
(the top being about foot wider than the bottom)
is called a California Roof (or California Rake) -
but where does the name "California Roof" come from.




I am thinking Eichler roof. Building is not my field,
but I did live in an Eichler house for a few years.
An Eichler house has an distinctive roof style,
as well as other identifiable features.
The first ones were built a few miles away, and there
were later many subdivisions of that style.
However, it was a single roof, without the
dormered gables mentioned elsethread(s).

As to why it might be called a California roof
rather than an Eichler roof (if indeed that is
the relevant sense):

1) Almost all Eichlers were built in California.
A visiting builder would likely only see them there.

2) There were Eichlers, and there were subdivisions
architected by admirers of Eichlers. A California
roof would be a sensible combining term.

3) The roof style was later used on other buildings
besides Eichler houses.

-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Richard Maurer" wrote in message
news:01c703ac$70085140$b39e480c@default...
ChitaShines wrote:
Where does the term "California Roof"
come from (historically)?

I understand the asymetric nature of my roof
(the top being about foot wider than the bottom)
is called a California Roof (or California Rake) -
but where does the name "California Roof" come from.




I am thinking Eichler roof. Building is not my field,
but I did live in an Eichler house for a few years.
An Eichler house has an distinctive roof style,
as well as other identifiable features.

As to why it might be called a California roof
rather than an Eichler roof (if indeed that is
the relevant sense):

1) Almost all Eichlers were built in California.
A visiting builder would likely only see them there.

2) There were Eichlers, and there were subdivisions
architected by admirers of Eichlers. A California
roof would be a sensible combining term.

3) The roof style was later used on other buildings
besides Eichler houses.

Someone posted links to houses that had "California roofs", but I wasn't
able to distinguish what makes them have the name. And now, calling
them Eichler roofs is not clearing them up any further.

If the top is a foot wider than the bottom, what does that mean?
http://www.eichlernetwork.com/HDroofing1.html

http://tinyurl.com/yj9b26

(
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi )


The description and appearance (aside from the center roofline in the
image) really appear to fit the nature of the prairie house
archetecture, with its deep eaves. In winter, the low sun provides a
lot of heat and light to the interior, while in the summer, when the sun
is high, the direct heating and lighting is minimized.
Images here don't link to informative pages, but they show solar
paneling being installed on a flat roof.


http://tinyurl.com/y7znuy

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...airie+style%22

Clicking on one of the images (a drawing, actually) brought up this
description: (Most of the images are of at least 2-story houses, but I
grew up understanding that the basic "ranch-style" suburban house was
based on the prairie school of architecture. Of course I have probably
confused two entirely separate theories.)

"Houses of the Prairie style are characterized by an overall horizontal
emphasis achieved by low proportions, low-pitched or flat roofs with
wide overhangs, banded casement windows, and low, massive chimneys.
Prairie houses are irregular in plan, two stories high, with one-story
wings. Siding is brick or stucco with stone or wood trim.

The Prairie style was developed in Chicago by architect Frank Lloyd
Wright around the turn of the century. Wright disapproved of styles that
were revivals of earlier styles and designed buildings with horizontal
emphasis and an open simplicity that would relate to the flat, open
landscape of the Middle West. The Prairie style is most common in
Chicago, other parts of Illinois, and in surrounding states."

(The small descriptions of the Eichler boom seem to locate them in the
SF Bay area.)

Pat Darken wrote:
Someone posted links to houses that had
"California roofs", but I wasn't able to
distinguish what makes them have the name.
And now, calling them Eichler roofs is not
clearing them up any further.


It is harder than I thought to find a good picture.

This is not what I think of as a classic Eichler roof,
which is one large wing rising at a low pitch, or has
two asymmetrical wings. Apparently Eichler, like Picasso,
went through periods. But it does match a drawing
that the original poster made.

www.actionproperties.com/ads/trophy952.html
(link is presumably time limited)

-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Richard Maurer" wrote in message
news:01c703be$b53b9940$b39e480c@default...
Pat Darken wrote:
Someone posted links to houses that had
"California roofs", but I wasn't able to
distinguish what makes them have the name.
And now, calling them Eichler roofs is not
clearing them up any further.


It is harder than I thought to find a good picture.

This is not what I think of as a classic Eichler roof,
which is one large wing rising at a low pitch, or has
two asymmetrical wings. Apparently Eichler, like Picasso,
went through periods. But it does match a drawing
that the original poster made.

www.actionproperties.com/ads/trophy952.html
(link is presumably time limited)

OK. Both examples of Eichler roof have a gable (peaked) roof, with a
low-pitched roof in contrast, and at a lower level. In both examples,
the more steeply pitched roof has been in the center, but I can
appreciate having it to one side, and even (correct me if I am wrong)
having the steeply pitched roof with a single slope (not a gable, but a
single pitch, like a leanto as opposed to a tent) and a contrasting
low-pitched section, or two.)

Thanks.