I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal. This fact alone may lead
you to retain a professional exterminator.
Unfortunately, it is my belief that exterminators
don't *kill* many rats, but just
drive them away. My infestation closely
followed an episode where my neighbor
had a rat problem and hired an exterminator.
I think they just moved up the street.
So, if you go this route, you may not
be doing any favors to your
neighbors by hiring an exterminator. If you DIY,
then, wear a respirator and gloves, and wash
your clothes thoroughly and
often. I used a mix of bleach, ammonia,
and soap and water daily.

IMO, traps by themselves are basically useless.
Rats are cautious, and are pretty
smart. At the least, if you use traps,
bait them but don't arm them, so the rats
become comfortable. Then arm them
and you may nail a few if they are optimists.

The traditional approach is poison bait. The most
common poison is warfarin, which
is an anticoagulant. Unfortunately, rats
evolve very quickly, at least metabolically, and
have become resistant to warfarin. I had
absolutely no food in my garage, but I found that
the rats had made their nest in an old box of
DCON warfarin-based rat poision (?!). A more
modern poison uses bromethalin, but I am
afraid rats are adapting to this, also. Bromethalin
attacks the myelin sheath on the nerves (like polio).
I never got bromethalin to actually
kill a rat, but it slows them down so
that other approaches become more effective.

Rats will take the bait back to their nests
and hoard it, so I would recommend using cubes
of bait (rather than loose grains) and then
leave some cubes loose (for rats to take home)
and fasten some down, so they are forced
to eat those in place. After a few days, I began
noticing rat tails in my driveway. The
local predators were having a field day with my
wacked-out rats. Also, my traps began
to work as the rats were becoming disabled.

It seemed like the really big rats could tolerate
the bromethalin the best, and never really
slowed down that much, but at least by
that point I had interrupted the life cycle
by nailing the pups. At that point I played
my ace, which is antifreeze. Rats apparently
like the smell and the taste. The largest
rat literally keeled over while drinking antifreeze.

I have been rat-free for a week, but
have no delusions that the war is over.
At least I
won the opening round. I will be
looking for additional poisons, beyond the bromethalin
and antifreeze, and I plan to experiment with electrocution.

In summary, I would say:

*lead off with a bromethalin-based poison
*keep rebaiting, and after a few days introduce traps
*at first, use the traps unarmed, to breed familiarity, then
*arm the traps. Continue to bait. At this point, warfarin
may be of some use on already-weakened rats.
*after a week or so of poisoning, introduce antifreeze to
hit the biggest ones.

Then, clean up thoroughly. No food available at all. Close up
any possible access points. Leave out bait blocks as a tell-tale.

What a drag.

Mr_Bill wrote:
The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal.

Not only diseases !
My swimming pool heat pump stopped working a few weeks
ago and I discovered that rats had eaten half of the control
panel wiring harness- right through the metal wires.
I worked as an exterminator while I was in college and agree
with most of what you have recomended except that I have
much more respect for traps than you do.
Baited with attractive bait like half cooked bacon, I have
found traps to be best. Its essential to tie the bait down onto
the tongue/trigger. Set out a lot of traps and remove them all
after catching a few. Wait a week and reset in different locations
with different bait. Traps are messy though- nobody enjoys
disposing of rat corpses.

Mr_Bill wrote:
I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

[...]

Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.

On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

"Terry" wrote in message
...
On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

Don't put anti-freeze out, it will kill your animals.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Mr_Bill wrote:
I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

[...]

Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.

My neighbor had a rat in the house the other day - obviously brought
home by the cat to be played with.

Bob

"Terry" wrote in message


I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

Without a doubt.

Bob

I found this interesting:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...535629276.html



The Continuing Saga of Mice:
I saw this method somewhere on this site or a different link.........it
costs nothing, is humane and it works.

Last night before going to bed I took an empty toilet paper roll and
flattened the bottom so it made a tunnel and could set flat on the
kitchen counter. I put a little dab of peanut butter on one end and
hung the baited end out over the counter with the kitchen trash can
directly below the counter. The trashcan is about 2 feet tall and
smooth walled. This is important because mice can jump up about 12" and
can climb rough vertical surfaces.

I stuck the toilet paper roll tunnel next to the backsplash and woke up
to the paper roll and mouse in the trashcan.........I didn't even spend
a lot of time flattening the T.P. roll......just kinda half assed it
and it worked!

Took the mouse for a Sunday morning drive and wished it good
luck..........save yourself some time & $ and try this method.


From the reading I have done, nothing works. They win.

In article .com,
says...


The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal. This fact alone may lead
you to retain a professional exterminator.
Unfortunately, it is my belief that exterminators
don't *kill* many rats, but just
drive them away. My infestation closely
followed an episode where my neighbor
had a rat problem and hired an exterminator.
I think they just moved up the street.

I know of no product in my profession that chases rodents away from one
place to another. My guess would be that when one finally hires a pro,
the pro will also point out areas on the property that needs addressing
to make the area less inviting for a rodent problem. When people
actually now spend money to take care of a problems like rats, they are
more inclined to follow any advise given to help keep the rats away. If
one yard in now less attractant to a rodent population they will migrate
to an area more to their liking.

The traditional approach is poison bait. The most
common poison is warfarin, which
is an anticoagulant. Unfortunately, rats
evolve very quickly, at least metabolically, and
have become resistant to warfarin. I had
absolutely no food in my garage, but I found that
the rats had made their nest in an old box of
DCON warfarin-based rat poision (?!).

I think the key word with this statement should be "was warafin". I'm in
my nineteenth year of pest control and have never seen warafin based
products used professionally for the most part, it has always been the
second generation anticoagulants and have never heard of any resistance
that warafin is known for.


A more
modern poison uses bromethalin, but I am
afraid rats are adapting to this, also. Bromethalin
attacks the myelin sheath on the nerves (like polio).
I never got bromethalin to actually
kill a rat, but it slows them down so
that other approaches become more effective.

I choose not to use bromethalin products for it is an acute toxin, kills
on one feeding, killing the rats too quick, raising the chance of dead
ones being found on the attic/crawl space/walls. But when there is a
heavy population that is in need of a quick reduction, bromethalin is
the way to go.

Rats will take the bait back to their nests
and hoard it, so I would recommend using cubes
of bait (rather than loose grains) and then
leave some cubes loose (for rats to take home)

Never allow them to be able to carry it away...no assurance that they
are not dropping the baits behind the bushes for non target animals to
get into

my ace, which is antifreeze. Rats apparently
like the smell and the taste. The largest
rat literally keeled over while drinking antifreeze.

As do cats and dogs and just a cap full is suppose to be able to cause
death to a cat.


--
Lar

to email...get rid of the BUGS

If you seal your garage to a level that rats can't enter (IMEO 10mm) you
will have no problems.

"Mr_Bill" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal. This fact alone may lead
you to retain a professional exterminator.
Unfortunately, it is my belief that exterminators
don't *kill* many rats, but just
drive them away. My infestation closely
followed an episode where my neighbor
had a rat problem and hired an exterminator.
I think they just moved up the street.
So, if you go this route, you may not
be doing any favors to your
neighbors by hiring an exterminator. If you DIY,
then, wear a respirator and gloves, and wash
your clothes thoroughly and
often. I used a mix of bleach, ammonia,
and soap and water daily.

IMO, traps by themselves are basically useless.
Rats are cautious, and are pretty
smart. At the least, if you use traps,
bait them but don't arm them, so the rats
become comfortable. Then arm them
and you may nail a few if they are optimists.

The traditional approach is poison bait. The most
common poison is warfarin, which
is an anticoagulant. Unfortunately, rats
evolve very quickly, at least metabolically, and
have become resistant to warfarin. I had
absolutely no food in my garage, but I found that
the rats had made their nest in an old box of
DCON warfarin-based rat poision (?!). A more
modern poison uses bromethalin, but I am
afraid rats are adapting to this, also. Bromethalin
attacks the myelin sheath on the nerves (like polio).
I never got bromethalin to actually
kill a rat, but it slows them down so
that other approaches become more effective.

Rats will take the bait back to their nests
and hoard it, so I would recommend using cubes
of bait (rather than loose grains) and then
leave some cubes loose (for rats to take home)
and fasten some down, so they are forced
to eat those in place. After a few days, I began
noticing rat tails in my driveway. The
local predators were having a field day with my
wacked-out rats. Also, my traps began
to work as the rats were becoming disabled.

It seemed like the really big rats could tolerate
the bromethalin the best, and never really
slowed down that much, but at least by
that point I had interrupted the life cycle
by nailing the pups. At that point I played
my ace, which is antifreeze. Rats apparently
like the smell and the taste. The largest
rat literally keeled over while drinking antifreeze.

I have been rat-free for a week, but
have no delusions that the war is over.
At least I
won the opening round. I will be
looking for additional poisons, beyond the bromethalin
and antifreeze, and I plan to experiment with electrocution.

In summary, I would say:

*lead off with a bromethalin-based poison
*keep rebaiting, and after a few days introduce traps
*at first, use the traps unarmed, to breed familiarity, then
*arm the traps. Continue to bait. At this point, warfarin
may be of some use on already-weakened rats.
*after a week or so of poisoning, introduce antifreeze to
hit the biggest ones.

Then, clean up thoroughly. No food available at all. Close up
any possible access points. Leave out bait blocks as a tell-tale.

What a drag.

In article ,
says...
On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:


Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

For the second generation anti-coagulant baits;
bromadiolone,diphacinone, brodifacoum for the most part, the amount of
bait ingested before treatment is advisable is 5-10% of the animals body
weight. A ten pound animal would need to eat 8-16 ounces of actual bait
(8-16 of the one ounce blocks). Or, if the rodents in question had fed
exclusively on the rat bait for several days and the pet ate then a ten
pound animal would need to consume 22-44 mice or 9-18 rats to reach the
5%-10% window.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

If the pets happen to get stuck to the sticky board, vegetable oil will
help dissolve the glue.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

Very dangerous to do, the pets will be actually attracted to the
solution and very little is lethal.

--
Lar

to email...get rid of the BUGS

Terry wrote in
:

On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

Absolutely without question proven. It has a sweet smell/taste to cats &
dogs. They will eat it. Death can occur within 24/48 hrs I believe.
Usually by the time you notice they are sick it's too late even under a
vets care.


She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:26:46 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Mr_Bill wrote:
I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

[...]

Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.


I am a farmer and always have rats getting into my grain room on the
barn. I have 16 cats. I purposely leave the door open to that room
so the cats can get in there. The cats DO NOT kill rats. They do a
great job with mice, but not the rats.

What DOES work, is a 5 gallon bucket. Fill it half way with water,
then sprinkle a large handfull of raw oats on top and close the door.
Rats will always drown when they go in the bucket.

I am curious how the OP "feeds" the antifreeze? What kind of
container, etc????

Mark

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:24:30 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

Don't put anti-freeze out, it will kill your animals.



Yes, antifreeze is deadly for ALL animals and for humans.
BUT, I'd consider it before poison because mice and rats can carry
poison pellets or chunks of rodent blocks where other animals can get
to it, even if you hide the pellets or blocks. I see no way they
could carry anifreeze, and antifreeze kills them fast, whereas poison
takes days to work.

Interesting fact. Warfarin (rat + mouse poison) is also given to
humans as a high blood pressure medication. Yeah, that shocked me
too.

Mark

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:24:30 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

Don't put anti-freeze out, it will kill your animals.



Yes, antifreeze is deadly for ALL animals and for humans.
BUT, I'd consider it before poison because mice and rats can carry
poison pellets or chunks of rodent blocks where other animals can get
to it, even if you hide the pellets or blocks. I see no way they
could carry anifreeze, and antifreeze kills them fast, whereas poison
takes days to work.

Interesting fact. Warfarin (rat + mouse poison) is also given to
humans as a high blood pressure medication. Yeah, that shocked me
too.

It is not a high pressure medication as far as I know. It is a "blood
thinner" - it helps avoid blood clots. I believe it does the same for rats -
they just bleed to death internally at high doses.

Bob

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:35:02 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:24:30 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Oct 2006 13:54:08 -0700, "Mr_Bill" wrote:

I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

My sister is infested like you would not believe. She resisted
putting out poison because she has house dogs. I think the mice are
interested in the dog's food.

Anyway, the dogs she has are small. She had one of the dogs eat one
of the mice. The vet has told her that the dogs would have to eat
more than one to be in any danger. She was not going to take a chance
on poison one of her pets.

She plans to put down sticky strips next.

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

Don't put anti-freeze out, it will kill your animals.



Yes, antifreeze is deadly for ALL animals and for humans.
BUT, I'd consider it before poison because mice and rats can carry
poison pellets or chunks of rodent blocks where other animals can get
to it, even if you hide the pellets or blocks. I see no way they
could carry anifreeze, and antifreeze kills them fast, whereas poison
takes days to work.

Interesting fact. Warfarin (rat + mouse poison) is also given to
humans as a high blood pressure medication. Yeah, that shocked me
too.

It is not a high pressure medication as far as I know. It is a "blood
thinner" - it helps avoid blood clots. I believe it does the same for rats -
they just bleed to death internally at high doses.

Bob


Interesting....
My elderly uncle is in a nursing home and he's getting it for blood
pressure, but I suppose a thinner blood may help the pressure too.
I found this out because my mother (his sister) was concerned he was
getting too many pills from different doctors and there might be an
interaction. I told her to get the nursing home to make a list of
everything he takes and what it's for, then present the list to his
main doctor. I also told her to make a photocopy so I could look them
up on the internet. That's how I found out and that Warfarin got me
shocked till I read about it.

As for the rats and mice, let em bleed. They could all die as far as
I'm concerned ! I tolerate mice, but rats completely freak me out.
It dont matter if I am a grown man and a farmer, I still get panicky
when I see rats and probably always will.

Mark

wrote in message
Interesting....
My elderly uncle is in a nursing home and he's getting it for blood
pressure, but I suppose a thinner blood may help the pressure too.

You might want to look into this further. As far as I can find, it is an
anti-coagulant. It reduces clotting. I found no mention of blood pressure.

Bob

In article , Terry wrote:

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

Yes, it does. It's particularly toxic to cats, but it's hell on dogs too.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , wrote:

Interesting fact. Warfarin (rat + mouse poison) is also given to
humans as a high blood pressure medication. Yeah, that shocked me
too.

No, it's not. It's given to humans to prevent clotting.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article .com, "Terry" wrote:
[snip story of homemade mousetrap]
Took the mouse for a Sunday morning drive and wished it good
luck..........save yourself some time & $ and try this method.

And that "saves time and money" compared to a spring trap exactly HOW????

A spring trap costs about a dollar, can be used over and over, and takes all
of maybe thirty seconds to set, and another thirty seconds to empty.

Compare that to the time, and cost of gasoline, involved in "taking the mouse
for a Sunday morning drive" and tell us again how you're saving either time or
money with that approach.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote:
Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.


I am a farmer and always have rats getting into my grain room on the
barn. I have 16 cats. I purposely leave the door open to that room
so the cats can get in there. The cats DO NOT kill rats. They do a
great job with mice, but not the rats.

You don't have cats, you have pussies.

During the middle ages, the Church became convinced that cats were the
"familiars" and hand-maidens of Satan and cats were largely exterminated
throughout Europe. Mice and rats multiplied unabated and the Black Death
followed.

One-third of Europe died.

You are right, cats do not kill rats. The rats are too big for a cat to kill
a full grown rat, babies maybe. Cats specialize on mice, voles and other
small rodents. The real rat killer is a dog. They are big enough and strong
enough to take on a rat and win. You need a good sized strong hunting type
dog, and they will get rid of the rats and enjoy the challenge.


wrote in message
news
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:26:46 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Mr_Bill wrote:
I recently have done battle with
rats in my garage. Since usenet
was a big help to me, I thought I'd
summarize what worked for me and
what didn't. I hope this info helps
someone in the future.

[...]

Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.


I am a farmer and always have rats getting into my grain room on the
barn. I have 16 cats. I purposely leave the door open to that room
so the cats can get in there. The cats DO NOT kill rats. They do a
great job with mice, but not the rats.

What DOES work, is a 5 gallon bucket. Fill it half way with water,
then sprinkle a large handfull of raw oats on top and close the door.
Rats will always drown when they go in the bucket.

I am curious how the OP "feeds" the antifreeze? What kind of
container, etc????

Mark

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:45:21 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.


I am a farmer and always have rats getting into my grain room on the
barn. I have 16 cats. I purposely leave the door open to that room
so the cats can get in there. The cats DO NOT kill rats. They do a
great job with mice, but not the rats.

You don't have cats, you have pussies.

During the middle ages, the Church became convinced that cats were the
"familiars" and hand-maidens of Satan and cats were largely exterminated
throughout Europe. Mice and rats multiplied unabated and the Black Death
followed.

One-third of Europe died.


This is the same mentality that decided old women were "witches" and
tortured/murdered/burned alive untold numbers of innocent old women.
Scholars differ on the numbers involved - from millions to
hundreds of thousands -- but not on the documented existence of
this dreadful, mindless holocaust.

Mentality carried across the ocean to Salem, in the not-too-distant
past.

Hallowe'en is just around the corner. Witches riding on broomsticks -
same stereotype visualization sold in every supermarket aisle.

Very thin veneer of "civilization" on us savages. Sapiens? Hah!

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:45:21 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
Cat: the ecologically-friendly rat-eradicator.


I am a farmer and always have rats getting into my grain room on the
barn. I have 16 cats. I purposely leave the door open to that room
so the cats can get in there. The cats DO NOT kill rats. They do a
great job with mice, but not the rats.

You don't have cats, you have pussies.


Getting a little pussie is a good thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

During the middle ages, the Church became convinced that cats were the
"familiars" and hand-maidens of Satan and cats were largely exterminated
throughout Europe. Mice and rats multiplied unabated and the Black Death
followed.

One-third of Europe died.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:45:39 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Terry wrote:

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

Yes, it does. It's particularly toxic to cats, but it's hell on dogs too.

Our water authority advocates vehicle maintenance to avoid anti freeze
and oil leaks as our run off water returns to Lake Mead (water
quality/drought).

As a side note they mentioned the danger to pets in a flier sent out.
--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

aspasia wrote:
You don't have cats, you have pussies.

During the middle ages, the Church became convinced that cats were
the "familiars" and hand-maidens of Satan and cats were largely
exterminated throughout Europe. Mice and rats multiplied unabated
and the Black Death followed.

One-third of Europe died.


This is the same mentality that decided old women were "witches" and
tortured/murdered/burned alive untold numbers of innocent old women.
Scholars differ on the numbers involved - from millions to
hundreds of thousands -- but not on the documented existence of
this dreadful, mindless holocaust.

Mentality carried across the ocean to Salem, in the not-too-distant
past.

Hallowe'en is just around the corner. Witches riding on broomsticks -
same stereotype visualization sold in every supermarket aisle.

Very thin veneer of "civilization" on us savages. Sapiens? Hah!

You'll have to admit, though, after the Salem trials we didn't have any more
trouble with witches.

Now in a similar vein, I'm gonna tell you something that may save your life!

This business about a wooden stake in the heart to kill a vampire is pure
Hollywood bull****. If you read Bram Stoker's book, "Dracula," you'll see
that what's required is a BOWIE KNIFE, not some ****ant tent peg!

I'm in Texas. We have a LOT of Bowie knives in Texas and do NOT have a
vampire problem.

Your milage may vary...

EXT wrote:
You are right, cats do not kill rats. The rats are too big for a cat
to kill a full grown rat, babies maybe. Cats specialize on mice,
voles and other small rodents. The real rat killer is a dog. They are
big enough and strong enough to take on a rat and win. You need a
good sized strong hunting type dog, and they will get rid of the rats
and enjoy the challenge.


Your point is well taken. Still, if you kill enough babies, the vermin dies
out.

Some say this is what's happening to political liberals in the US (see "Roe
Effect").

For example, there were 75,000 abortions in Florida in 1980. Were it not for
the abortions, those 75,000 would have voted in their first election in
2000. Bush won Florida by 500-odd votes and with it, the presidency. How
would those 75,000 missing votes influenced the outcome?

"Bob F" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
Interesting....
My elderly uncle is in a nursing home and he's getting it for blood
pressure, but I suppose a thinner blood may help the pressure too.

You might want to look into this further. As far as I can find, it is an
anti-coagulant. It reduces clotting. I found no mention of blood pressure.


Right, it is not for pressure, only thinning. You must be tested frequently
also to be sure it is not too thin as that becomes dangerous. It is often
prescribed along with an aspirin to "fine tune" the viscosity. Patients
will get a PT test prothrombin time from once a week to up to six weeks
depending on stability. Cardiac patients, those at high risk of stroke and
those with certain blood disorders use it.

Yes, antifreeze works also on cats, dogs, small children, and babies.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Terry" wrote in message
...

I was most interested by your ace in the hole. Antifreeze. I would
be interested if anyone has knowledge if Antifreeze would pose the
same danger to house animals as poison does.

She put the poison in places like closets and under kitchen sink so
she could be sure that the dogs could not directly get the poison.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:qFn%
:

Yes, antifreeze works also on cats, dogs, small children, and babies.



What about in-laws? Does it work on in-laws?! Come on! Give it up!!!

In article ,
Lar wrote:
In article .com,
says...


The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal. This fact alone may lead
you to retain a professional exterminator.
Unfortunately, it is my belief that exterminators
don't *kill* many rats, but just
drive them away. My infestation closely
followed an episode where my neighbor
had a rat problem and hired an exterminator.
I think they just moved up the street.

I know of no product in my profession that chases rodents away from one
place to another. My guess would be that when one finally hires a pro,
the pro will also point out areas on the property that needs addressing
to make the area less inviting for a rodent problem. When people
actually now spend money to take care of a problems like rats, they are
more inclined to follow any advise given to help keep the rats away. If
one yard in now less attractant to a rodent population they will migrate
to an area more to their liking.

The traditional approach is poison bait. The most
common poison is warfarin, which
is an anticoagulant. Unfortunately, rats
evolve very quickly, at least metabolically, and
have become resistant to warfarin. I had
absolutely no food in my garage, but I found that
the rats had made their nest in an old box of
DCON warfarin-based rat poision (?!).

I think the key word with this statement should be "was warafin". I'm in
my nineteenth year of pest control and have never seen warafin based
products used professionally for the most part, it has always been the
second generation anticoagulants and have never heard of any resistance
that warafin is known for.


A more
modern poison uses bromethalin, but I am
afraid rats are adapting to this, also. Bromethalin
attacks the myelin sheath on the nerves (like polio).
I never got bromethalin to actually
kill a rat, but it slows them down so
that other approaches become more effective.

I choose not to use bromethalin products for it is an acute toxin, kills
on one feeding, killing the rats too quick, raising the chance of dead
ones being found on the attic/crawl space/walls. But when there is a
heavy population that is in need of a quick reduction, bromethalin is
the way to go.

Rats will take the bait back to their nests
and hoard it, so I would recommend using cubes
of bait (rather than loose grains) and then
leave some cubes loose (for rats to take home)

Never allow them to be able to carry it away...no assurance that they
are not dropping the baits behind the bushes for non target animals to
get into

my ace, which is antifreeze. Rats apparently
like the smell and the taste. The largest
rat literally keeled over while drinking antifreeze.

As do cats and dogs and just a cap full is suppose to be able to cause
death to a cat.


--
Lar

to email...get rid of the BUGS




So, what then *do* you use?

And, are there any good books (or sites) on *how* to do it
(get rid of rats, that is)?

(Professionals-to-be have to learn *some* way...)

Thanks,

David

In article , says...


So, what then *do* you use?

And, are there any good books (or sites) on *how* to do it
(get rid of rats, that is)?

(Professionals-to-be have to learn *some* way...)

Thanks,

David

I use a bait containing Bromadiolone, actually have been using it for a
number of years and have no issues with it. I like Bell Labs product
called Contrac, mainly because their baits are made with the rat taste
in mind. There are other baits containing Bromadiolone, but if the rats
don't eat it it won't kill them.

At the moment I can't think of a reference for you...a friends site has
some general information, but it also has some info we differ on.
http://unexco.com/Rat.html
Most of what a professional learns, other than the generic "classroom"
type knowledge of "this is a rat 101" comes from being out in the field
and constantly being amazed what rats do to survive amongst us.
--
Lar
---- to email get rid of the BUGS!

Rats are like any other uninvited guest. When you stop feeding
them, they will leave.
Actually, that's only half the story. When you remove their food,
they are still instinctually bound to stay where they are as much
as they can, and they will eat their young as a food source rather
than go elsewhere. Because they are generally destined to die
unless they can find another site where they won't be 'trespassing'.

In my experience, the presence of dogs, their food, and their feces
are an extremely common theme with rat infestations.


David Combs wrote:
In article ,
Lar wrote:
In article .com,
says...


The biggest problem (to me) is that
rats carry many diseases, most unpleasant,
some fatal. This fact alone may lead
you to retain a professional exterminator.
Unfortunately, it is my belief that exterminators
don't *kill* many rats, but just
drive them away. My infestation closely
followed an episode where my neighbor
had a rat problem and hired an exterminator.
I think they just moved up the street.

I know of no product in my profession that chases rodents away from one
place to another. My guess would be that when one finally hires a pro,
the pro will also point out areas on the property that needs addressing
to make the area less inviting for a rodent problem. When people
actually now spend money to take care of a problems like rats, they are
more inclined to follow any advise given to help keep the rats away. If
one yard in now less attractant to a rodent population they will migrate
to an area more to their liking.

The traditional approach is poison bait. The most
common poison is warfarin, which
is an anticoagulant. Unfortunately, rats
evolve very quickly, at least metabolically, and
have become resistant to warfarin. I had
absolutely no food in my garage, but I found that
the rats had made their nest in an old box of
DCON warfarin-based rat poision (?!).

I think the key word with this statement should be "was warafin". I'm in
my nineteenth year of pest control and have never seen warafin based
products used professionally for the most part, it has always been the
second generation anticoagulants and have never heard of any resistance
that warafin is known for.


A more
modern poison uses bromethalin, but I am
afraid rats are adapting to this, also. Bromethalin
attacks the myelin sheath on the nerves (like polio).
I never got bromethalin to actually
kill a rat, but it slows them down so
that other approaches become more effective.

I choose not to use bromethalin products for it is an acute toxin, kills
on one feeding, killing the rats too quick, raising the chance of dead
ones being found on the attic/crawl space/walls. But when there is a
heavy population that is in need of a quick reduction, bromethalin is
the way to go.

Rats will take the bait back to their nests
and hoard it, so I would recommend using cubes
of bait (rather than loose grains) and then
leave some cubes loose (for rats to take home)

Never allow them to be able to carry it away...no assurance that they
are not dropping the baits behind the bushes for non target animals to
get into

my ace, which is antifreeze. Rats apparently
like the smell and the taste. The largest
rat literally keeled over while drinking antifreeze.

As do cats and dogs and just a cap full is suppose to be able to cause
death to a cat.


--
Lar

to email...get rid of the BUGS




So, what then *do* you use?

And, are there any good books (or sites) on *how* to do it
(get rid of rats, that is)?

(Professionals-to-be have to learn *some* way...)

Thanks,

David

Alright enough of this non-sense.
Here is the surest solution.

Load all the rats up on a bus and take it to New Jersey.

Once there the Rats will definately run for office.
They will undoubtedly all win....and stay.

In article om,
says...
In my experience, the presence of dogs, their food, and their feces
are an extremely common theme with rat infestations.


The majority of the rats I deal with in the Dallas area are roof
rats..the common theme I have seen is vertical growing vines. Jasmine,
honeysuckle, English ivy. As many rat calls that I can remember either
on the property or the adjacent ones will be found the vines allowed to
grow upwards on the fence, trees, arbors, even when just on the ground
thick up against the house a rat nest usually can be found.
--
Lar
---- to email get rid of the BUGS!

Ya know, White Castles are very popular around here.
Don't know why, since they have a Communion-wafer
sized patty, and the burgers are 2-for-a-dollar.
But anyway, they are open 24/7. So if I were to arrive
at one, to find it closed, I'd not wait in their parking lot
for them to open, I'd go elsewhere.
Same thing for rats. If they don't find food, they'll go
elsewhere. Regardless of where or how their nests
are located or accessed, they will try to be near to their
food source.
I hope that by now everybody here understands that rats
eat dog feces. For undigested food, and for vitamin B-6
that they don't absorb well on the 'first pass'.
So I say again, if there are rats, eliminate their food sources.
And be especially watching for dogs and their associated
food sources of whatever variety.


Lar wrote:
In article om,
says...
In my experience, the presence of dogs, their food, and their feces
are an extremely common theme with rat infestations.


The majority of the rats I deal with in the Dallas area are roof
rats..the common theme I have seen is vertical growing vines. Jasmine,
honeysuckle, English ivy. As many rat calls that I can remember either
on the property or the adjacent ones will be found the vines allowed to
grow upwards on the fence, trees, arbors, even when just on the ground
thick up against the house a rat nest usually can be found.
--
Lar
---- to email get rid of the BUGS!

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 01:32:59 -0500, wrote:

This is a juvenile rattus rattus I caught the other day.
This is a roof rat, tree rat, fruit rat or "palmetto squirrel" for the
chamber of commerce folks. They get about 50% bigger full grown.
Our readers should note the identifying long tail. The mesh is 1/2"
hardware screen and these guys can eat a hole through it (I have a
patch in this trap). Peanut butter with dog food in it did the trick
on this one. He now sleeps with the fishes. "Cute" didn't save his
ass.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/rattusrattus.jpg


We have mice. I haven't been able to get rid of them.

Here is a picture of why.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2ex6kah.jpg

"Terry" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 01:32:59 -0500, wrote:

This is a juvenile rattus rattus I caught the other day.
This is a roof rat, tree rat, fruit rat or "palmetto squirrel" for the
chamber of commerce folks. They get about 50% bigger full grown.
Our readers should note the identifying long tail. The mesh is 1/2"
hardware screen and these guys can eat a hole through it (I have a
patch in this trap). Peanut butter with dog food in it did the trick
on this one. He now sleeps with the fishes. "Cute" didn't save his
ass.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/rattusrattus.jpg


We have mice. I haven't been able to get rid of them.

Here is a picture of why.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2ex6kah.jpg


LOL!

Bob

Great picture!

Seriously though - seems like I have roof rats. We hear them scurrying
around at night.

If antifreeze is so effective, AND, I have no animals that might get to
it, seems like that would be best.

My problem is that if they go back into the roof/rafters, I am
concerned about disease as they die up there.

I don't like the idea of traps since the doggone animals are awfully
smart - had a bid for an exterminator and it was WAY too expensive.

I liked the 5 gallon bucket idea, but I wasn't clear on how to get them
to go into it willingly. I don't have oats, so need another temptation
for them, plus, how to rig the bucket???

Help?!?!



Bob F wrote:
"Terry" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 01:32:59 -0500, wrote:

This is a juvenile rattus rattus I caught the other day.
This is a roof rat, tree rat, fruit rat or "palmetto squirrel" for the
chamber of commerce folks. They get about 50% bigger full grown.
Our readers should note the identifying long tail. The mesh is 1/2"
hardware screen and these guys can eat a hole through it (I have a
patch in this trap). Peanut butter with dog food in it did the trick
on this one. He now sleeps with the fishes. "Cute" didn't save his
ass.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/rattusrattus.jpg


We have mice. I haven't been able to get rid of them.

Here is a picture of why.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2ex6kah.jpg


LOL!

Bob

Catch ya some rats
Put them together with water and no food
They will start eating each other.
The last one standing is let go
He will eat all the other rats now that he knows how tasty they are
This is how they got rid of the rats in the Vatican in the Middle Ages
Rosco