Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.

mm spake thus:

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

I think the word is "seize". And yes, you can use a thin coat of grease
on screws to make them easier to get out later.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

You should use the correct product for the application, especially for high
temperature conditions


"mm" wrote in message
...
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.

mm,

Anti-seize is a wonderfull product and does work as advertised. I have
been using it for many years on many different applications and have
never had an issue with anything backing out. As long as you followe
the proper torque specs for what you are doing the screws, nuts and
bolts will stay where they are supposed to and you will find them much
much easier to remove next time. I have used it on everything from twin
Cat 3508 engines, deisel generators, plumbing parts, lawn mowers and
yes, even motorcycles. Do not use grease in high tem locations as it
can make a terrible mess and you will find that once it is heated it
doesn't help at all with removal, just gets your tools messy. And also,
with heating your transmission and engine covers with a torch, be very
carefull doing this. As long as there is no discoloration, you should
be fine. If you have more issues with other bolts and are planning on
taking the motor out, you can put it in a large black garbage bag or
wrap it in plastic and the spray every nut, bolt and screw with a good
coat of penetrating lube. They make several different brands with
several different prices. It's worth the extra money and time in the
long run. After you spray everything down, wrap it up and let it sit
for a couple days. You'll find that parts come apart much easier. Good
luck, hope you get that classic back on two wheels soon.
mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.

mm,

Anti-seize is a wonderfull product and does work as advertised. I have
been using it for many years on many different applications and have
never had an issue with anything backing out. As long as you followe
the proper torque specs for what you are doing the screws, nuts and
bolts will stay where they are supposed to and you will find them much
much easier to remove next time. I have used it on everything from twin
Cat 3508 engines, deisel generators, plumbing parts, lawn mowers and
yes, even motorcycles. Do not use grease in high tem locations as it
can make a terrible mess and you will find that once it is heated it
doesn't help at all with removal, just gets your tools messy. And also,
with heating your transmission and engine covers with a torch, be very
carefull doing this. As long as there is no discoloration, you should
be fine. If you have more issues with other bolts and are planning on
taking the motor out, you can put it in a large black garbage bag or
wrap it in plastic and the spray every nut, bolt and screw with a good
coat of penetrating lube. They make several different brands with
several different prices. It's worth the extra money and time in the
long run. After you spray everything down, wrap it up and let it sit
for a couple days. You'll find that parts come apart much easier. Good
luck, hope you get that classic back on two wheels soon.
mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.

In article , mm wrote:

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

That'll work. Another option is stainless steel screws -- putting aluminum and
carbon steel together causes the steel to corrode if it gets the least bit
damp (even humidity is enough), but stainless steel won't have that problem.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?


Yes, aluminum has different "tempers"...if you warm it with a torch,
you will be fine, don't get it smoking hot....it melts at 1200 degrees
F.

DON'T use grease as an "anti-seize" compound, it will harden oe even
bake in place and you'll have a mess.

You can buy a lifetime supply of anti-seize for 5-6 dollars.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , mm wrote:

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

That'll work. Another option is stainless steel screws -- putting aluminum and
carbon steel together causes the steel to corrode if it gets the least bit
damp (even humidity is enough), but stainless steel won't have that problem.


Don't use stainless in any application where strength is critical (head
bolts, suspension bolts, etc.) as 304 stainless is not as strong as a
grade 5 fastener. Also any stainless screw will require anti-seize on
the threads to prevent galling. this is not to say that stainless is
bad however, lots of bolts on my '55 Stude have been replaced with
stainless - just not critical ones as I described above.

nate

In article .com, "N8N" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , mm
wrote:

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

That'll work. Another option is stainless steel screws -- putting aluminum
and
carbon steel together causes the steel to corrode if it gets the least bit
damp (even humidity is enough), but stainless steel won't have that problem.


Don't use stainless in any application where strength is critical (head
bolts, suspension bolts, etc.) as 304 stainless is not as strong as a
grade 5 fastener.

Obviously strength is not critical in the areas where the OP is having a
problem: the screws are going into aluminum. *Any* steel fastener, stainless
or not, is stronger than aluminum, and if there's going to be a
mechanical failure, it won't be in the steel.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 22 Oct 2006 15:55:28 -0700, "Rain" wrote:

mm,

Anti-seize is a wonderfull product and does work as advertised. I have
been using it for many years on many different applications and have
never had an issue with anything backing out.

I hadn't heard of such a problem. It's just that I wondered why the
stuff wasn't recommended more often, especially considering how hard
it has been to get these screws out, the right and left crankcase
covers, as well as things that are attached to the cover, the oil
filter cover, and the ignition point cover. (interestingly, the
exhaust pipe came off easily, even though it gets much hotter. I
guess that is because both the stud and the nut are steel.)

So I figured the opposite problem of not coming loose when you try to
unscrew it, is coming loose when you're not trying.

As long as you followe
the proper torque specs for what you are doing the screws, nuts and
bolts will stay where they are supposed to and you will find them much

I'll have to look again if I have torque specifications even for the
cover screws.

much easier to remove next time. I have used it on everything from twin
Cat 3508 engines, deisel generators, plumbing parts, lawn mowers and
yes, even motorcycles. Do not use grease in high tem locations as it
can make a terrible mess and you will find that once it is heated it
doesn't help at all with removal, just gets your tools messy. And also,
with heating your transmission and engine covers with a torch, be very
carefull doing this. As long as there is no discoloration, you should
be fine.

Definitely no discoloration, not while I was doing it** and not after
it cooled. **I moved the torch around and could see the heated parts.
Nothing glowed red either.

If you have more issues with other bolts and are planning on
taking the motor out, you can put it in a large black garbage bag or
wrap it in plastic and the spray every nut, bolt and screw with a good
coat of penetrating lube. They make several different brands with
several different prices. It's worth the extra money and time in the
long run. After you spray everything down, wrap it up and let it sit
for a couple days. You'll find that parts come apart much easier. Good

I really really don't want to take the engine out**, but I'll keep
this in mind if I do. I want to go back and say that I did use
penetrating oil on the screws too, starting a day in advance, but I
still needed the impact driver in most cases, and the torch in more
than half of those.

The penetrating oil didn't do any good I think, in the case of the
three 50 or 55mm screws because the threads are so far from the screw
heads.

luck, hope you get that classic back on two wheels soon.

Thanks.

mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.


Remove NOPSAM to email me..

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:46:34 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

You should use the correct product for the application, especially for high
temperature conditions

I have some graphite powder around somewhere (well it should be in the
top left hand drawer of the work bench), but I've never heard about
copper or nickle powder.

I thought I would just use what they sell for spark plugs in the auto
parts store. It's grey and creamy, and in the case of what they
pushed on me when I bought plugs, it was in a foil bag about the size
of a sugar bag at a coffee shop. Good to use?


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.




Remove NOPSAM to email me..

What you want is either the nickle or copper cream, not powder. It
usually comes in a container similiar to that of PVC glue. One thing to
remember when using this product is it takes half as much as you think
you need. All you are doing is lightly covering the threads. If you are
particular about your fingers and skin, use gloves because it is very
difficult to remove from your skin. The particular brand that I like to
use is actually called "never seize" and comes in a grey container.
mm wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:46:34 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

You should use the correct product for the application, especially for high
temperature conditions

I have some graphite powder around somewhere (well it should be in the
top left hand drawer of the work bench), but I've never heard about
copper or nickle powder.

I thought I would just use what they sell for spark plugs in the auto
parts store. It's grey and creamy, and in the case of what they
pushed on me when I bought plugs, it was in a foil bag about the size
of a sugar bag at a coffee shop. Good to use?


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.




Remove NOPSAM to email me..

Bike Guy Joe wrote:
mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?


Yes, aluminum has different "tempers"...if you warm it with a torch,
you will be fine, don't get it smoking hot....it melts at 1200 degrees
F.

DON'T use grease as an "anti-seize" compound, it will harden oe even
bake in place and you'll have a mess.

You can buy a lifetime supply of anti-seize for 5-6 dollars.

Also, somewhat ironically? Loctite, etc. have antiseize properties,
since they insert a layer of acrylic between the two metals.

Also any stainless screw will require anti-seize on
the threads to prevent galling.

Stainless won't gall on aluminum. aluminum may gall on stainless though.

--


Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

Help Cure Cancer: http://yunx.com/UDvroc.htm

Obviously strength is not critical in the areas where the OP is having a
problem: the screws are going into aluminum. *Any* steel fastener,
stainless
or not, is stronger than aluminum, and if there's going to be a
mechanical failure, it won't be in the steel.

A quick lesson... The thread strength could be stronger than the "twist
off" strength of any bolt you put in there... It all depends on how many
threads you catch, whether the thread was cut or roll tapped, and some other
(useless?) information to most folks...

Imagine you have a threaded (tapped) hole that is 1/4" deep with a 3/4"
stainless bolt. You will likely strip the threads out before you break the
bolt... Not make the hole 3" deep and fully threaded... The bolt will snap
if tightened too much before the sum "shear point" of the threads is
reached...

Stainless should be fine to use, but it brings a lot of problems along with
it and I totally agree with another poster who said not to use it where
strength is needed.

If you need strength, go with grade 5 black oxide. It's ugly, but rust
somewhat resistant.

Want to learn more?
http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/stripping.htm

http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts..._strength.html

http://www.guhring.com/downloads/GUH...ass_Lo_Res.pdf

http://www.autodrill.com (My site)

http://www.multi-drill.com (My site again - with drilling and some tapping
reference tools)

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

Help Cure Cancer: http://yunx.com/UDvroc.htm

Imagine you have a threaded (tapped) hole that is 1/4" deep with a 3/4"
stainless bolt. You will likely strip the threads out before you break
the bolt... Not make the hole 3" deep and fully threaded... The bolt
will snap if tightened too much before the sum "shear point" of the
threads is reached...

Bad form to reply to one's own post, but note that the 3" depth was supposed
to be 13" depth.... Even at 3", the threads might shear off before the bolt
broke - especially in aluminum.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

Help Cure Cancer: http://yunx.com/UDvroc.htm

Tbanks a lot to all you guys. I have a lot to think about and
remember. I'm glad I asked before I was finished. So I only have
about 10 screws to back out (one by one?) and put on something, and
replace.

I forgot to say that I don't want to have to take the engine off, but
I gather some of the parts of the kick starter are deep in the engine
and the bottom has to be removed from the top to replace a spring or
whatever. That would require removing the engine. I'll do it if I
have to, but if it will start with the starter motor, or if maybe
getting the thing hot for a while will free something up, that will be
good enough for me.

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:31:42 -0400, mm
wrote:

Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that
hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to
make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time,
they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make
the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when
the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many
motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are
aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want
them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's
but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online
sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, www.jcw.com , because
there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire
irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never
had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and
now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have,
that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red
rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit
your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2
slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I
didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.


I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension
bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended
up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane
torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only
one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such
a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated
anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it
made it easier to get the screws out.

mm wrote:

I thought I would just use what they sell for spark plugs in the auto
parts store. It's grey and creamy, and in the case of what they
pushed on me when I bought plugs, it was in a foil bag about the size
of a sugar bag at a coffee shop. Good to use?

Ideal.

Also screws going into aluminum get tightened to approx. 25 ft. lbs.

"Joe" wrote in message
news:Luf%g.4519$fA.4394@trnddc05...
Imagine you have a threaded (tapped) hole that is 1/4" deep with a 3/4"
stainless bolt. You will likely strip the threads out before you break
the bolt... Not make the hole 3" deep and fully threaded... The bolt
will snap if tightened too much before the sum "shear point" of the
threads is reached...

Bad form to reply to one's own post, but note that the 3" depth was
supposed to be 13" depth.... Even at 3", the threads might shear off
before the bolt broke - especially in aluminum.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

Help Cure Cancer: http://yunx.com/UDvroc.htm




My own experience of using stainless bolts is that they loosen under
vibration more readily than the regular steel ones.

"z" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bike Guy Joe wrote:
mm wrote:
Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?


Yes, aluminum has different "tempers"...if you warm it with a torch,
you will be fine, don't get it smoking hot....it melts at 1200 degrees
F.

DON'T use grease as an "anti-seize" compound, it will harden oe even
bake in place and you'll have a mess.

You can buy a lifetime supply of anti-seize for 5-6 dollars.

Also, somewhat ironically? Loctite, etc. have antiseize properties,
since they insert a layer of acrylic between the two metals.


This is very true - but watch which grade you use, some types are impossible
to undo while others are specifically designed to make dismantling again
possible.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
mm spake thus:

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the
motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need
to do something, or 20 years from now.

I think the word is "seize". And yes, you can use a thin coat of grease on
screws to make them easier to get out later.

Grease might be just the wrong thing in many applications.
Alumslip or coppaslip from the Moly company are best.