I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

Hi,
How did you test the power?

wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

The answe is yes cicuit breakers can fail in the on position and though
the tripper appears off the contact are still being made. Rule No one.
NEVER assume a circuit dead without testing it.

Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut
off the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but
still had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and
continue to supply power to an outlet when powered off?

Hi,
How did you test the power?

Does it have a UPS? Are you measuring power using a digital meter?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

Anything can fail ... or be wired incorrectly.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

first try turning off main breaker...........

you need to check if other circuits are powered when you believe they
are off

wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

Are you in a multi-unit building where the outlet could be wired to a
neighbor's meter? Try running a high current appliance like a toaster
and see if the meter disc spins faster.

if you still have power at the outlet even after turning off the main
breaker, have your electrician unplug the power company meter. if you
still have power it's coming from the neighbor's house.

wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

On 21 Sep 2006 16:01:56 -0700, "
wrote:

I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

Is this an apartment or condo? If it is, it could be you are getting
power from the neighbors breaker panel. Not uncommon in older
apartments. I once worked in an old building with 4 apartments. Talk
about a nightmare. Everyone was paying for the neighbors power. I
was able to separate all the outlets to the proper meters, but not all
the lights. I could have done it, but the cost would have been
outrageous for the owner and he told me his price limit and said to do
the best I could.

Mark

On 21 Sep 2006 17:54:31 -0700, "Jack" wrote:


wrote:
I have only 1 circuit breaker panel. I was tiling and need to shut off
the power to my counter outlet. I turned off every breaker but still
had power. How is this possible? Can a breaker fail and continue to
supply power to an outlet when powered off?

The answe is yes cicuit breakers can fail in the on position and though
the tripper appears off the contact are still being made. Rule No one.
NEVER assume a circuit dead without testing it.

And in case your TESTER might be dead, test before turning it off too.
That could mean little or no extra work, such as plugging in an outlet
tester (and making sure it works), then turn off the breaker and see
it go out.
--
93 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

wrote:

I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

Did you try the main breaker? That might be informative. Maybe it's a
battery powered radio.

You could disconnect each breaker in turn. Or check the voltage across
each breaker while they're all off (one will have 0 volts, the others
will be 120 v -- unless they're ALL bad).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On 23 Sep 2006 17:50:19 -0700, "
wrote:

I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

First, determine which breakers DO work (cut something off). The bad
one isn't one of those.
--
93 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:23:34 GMT, CJT wrote:

wrote:

I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

Did you try the main breaker? That might be informative. Maybe it's a
battery powered radio.


Most battery-powered radios I've had anything to do with don't switch
over unless the power cord is physically disconnected.

You could disconnect each breaker in turn. Or check the voltage across
each breaker while they're all off (one will have 0 volts, the others
will be 120 v -- unless they're ALL bad).
--
93 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

(1) leave all circuit breaker off and use a voltmeter (or a light bulb) to
probe the output of all breakers. If you find 120V, that's the culprit.

(2) first eliminate all the working breakers, then remove the uncertain ones
one-at-a-time until you find it.

(3) Froogle "circuit breaker locator".

replying to Tony Hwang, Mary J Stokes wrote:
With a tester machine

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...er-148353-.htm

replying to Jack, Mary J Stokes wrote:
Hey Jack we have juice running too the light outlets and plug ins but no
lights will come on or no plug in s Will work plugged the tester in one and it
stayed orange any suggestions

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...er-148353-.htm

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 2:44:07 PM UTC-4, Mary J Stokes wrote:
replying to Jack, Mary J Stokes wrote:
Hey Jack we have juice running too the light outlets and plug ins but no
lights will come on or no plug in s Will work plugged the tester in one and it
stayed orange any suggestions

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...er-148353-.htm

Get a tester with a red light?

On Saturday, September 23, 2006 at 6:50:19 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I am in a detached home, not sharing electrical with anyone. I tested
by plugging in a radio and hitting every breaker. The radio never went
off. So, lets assume I have a broken breaker. How do I locate the
breaker for this circuit or test each breaker to find the broken one.

You are using a radio powered by batteries or by default an electric one that
has switched over to batteries when the AC was cut off.
====

I have a strange one Im replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot I have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

On 7/5/2019 11:10 AM, wrote:
I have a strange one Im replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot I have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

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On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a strange one Im replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to
replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot I
have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

Short the hot to the ground, if no sparks, you are just seeing induced
voltages. No big thing. It is a product of the very high impedance
test equipment we are using these days.

Short version breaker off all outlets and switches are off when I open the I used two new meters and both white and black short hot according to the meter but outlet and multimeter showed no power this also happened in another room on another breaker but on the same flloor

On Friday, July 5, 2019 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a strange one Im replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to
replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot I
have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

Short the hot to the ground, if no sparks, you are just seeing induced
voltages. No big thing. It is a product of the very high impedance
test equipment we are using these days.

I have a GFCI that keeps going bad. So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends. I pulled the wire back and forth in the conduit to try to move it if it was shorted to another wire, but that made no difference. There are 2 other hot wires running through the same conduit. when I shut either one of those off the voltage drops to about 4..5 and when I shut them both off it is zero. I assume this is inductance. Short of running the wire in a separate conduit can I fix this and is it what is causing my GFCI's to fail.

In article ,
says...

I have a GFCI that keeps going bad. So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends. I pulled the wire back and forth in the conduit to try to move
it if it was shorted to another wire, but that made no difference. There are 2 other hot wires running through the same conduit. when I shut either one of those off the voltage drops to about 4.5 and when I shut them both off it is zero. I assume this is inductance. Short of running the wire in a separate conduit can I fix this and
is it what is causing my GFCI's to fail.



Most anytime you have wires next to each other there will be a small
voltage in the wire not connected. Many digital meters will show some
voltage, but this is what most call induced voltage. Either by
capacitance or inductive coupling. Nothing wrong with the wiring.

That voltage is nothing, you should see it in a plant that has a dozen
or more hot wires and in 200 or more feet of conduit. I have seen
nearly 120 volts in it, the same as the wires with power on them.
Enough current to give a good shock to you.

I doubt that voltage would cause the GFCI to fail. You should probably
look for another cause.

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 5:00:20 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I have a GFCI that keeps going bad. So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends. I pulled the wire back and forth in the conduit to try to move
it if it was shorted to another wire, but that made no difference. There are 2 other hot wires running through the same conduit. when I shut either one of those off the voltage drops to about 4.5 and when I shut them both off it is zero. I assume this is inductance. Short of running the wire in a separate conduit can I fix this and
is it what is causing my GFCI's to fail.



Most anytime you have wires next to each other there will be a small
voltage in the wire not connected. Many digital meters will show some
voltage, but this is what most call induced voltage. Either by
capacitance or inductive coupling. Nothing wrong with the wiring.

That voltage is nothing, you should see it in a plant that has a dozen
or more hot wires and in 200 or more feet of conduit. I have seen
nearly 120 volts in it, the same as the wires with power on them.
Enough current to give a good shock to you.

I doubt that voltage would cause the GFCI to fail. You should probably
look for another cause.

+1

What is the failure mode of these Gfcis? If there was some unusual surge that hits them, then I could see that damaging the electronics.

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 12:52:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 5, 2019 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a strange one Im replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to
replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot
I
have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

Short the hot to the ground, if no sparks, you are just seeing induced
voltages. No big thing. It is a product of the very high impedance
test equipment we are using these days.

I have a GFCI that keeps going bad. So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends. I pulled the wire back and forth in the conduit to try to move
it if it was shorted to another wire, but that made no difference. There are 2 other hot wires running through the same conduit. when I shut either one of those off the voltage drops to about 4.5 and when I shut them both off it is zero. I assume this is inductance. Short of running the wire in a separate conduit can I fix this and
is it what is causing my GFCI's to fail.

You are chasing ghosts (ghost voltage in this case). This is not why
your GFCI is failing.
First, what is wrong with the GFCI? You may really have a wiring
problem. Does it fail to reset? Is it a breaker or a device box type?
Does it fail with the load side wires disconnected?
Start there.

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 12:52:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 5, 2019 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a strange one I’m replacing a lot of switches & outlets down stairs when I cut the power test the outlets and switches all is good however when I was trying to work the up stairs I turned the breaker off and with test plug it into all the outlets tester showed no power so pulled a cover off standard porcelain light to
replace it with a switch I test the wires again before starting both the black and white showed red but the flasher was beeping slower than when power was on I decided to check the outlets same thing there. I checked the tester again nothing I put my multimeter on no voltage when I use the power tester all wires show red or hot I
have two new testers and checked them both on it and a circuit elsewhere they are working you thing I have another circuit wire in I turned all the circuits off in the rooms around it no difference same problem in my bedroom with bother breaker

Short the hot to the ground, if no sparks, you are just seeing induced
voltages. No big thing. It is a product of the very high impedance
test equipment we are using these days.

I have a GFCI that keeps going bad. So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends. I pulled the wire back and forth in the conduit to try to move it if it was shorted to another wire, but that made no difference. There are 2 other hot wires running through the same conduit. when I shut either one of those off the voltage drops to about 4.5 and when I shut them both off it is zero. I assume this is inductance. Short of running the wire in a separate conduit can I fix this and is it what is causing my GFCI's to fail.
Inductive or capacitive - virtually NO current capacity, and NOT
causing the GFCI to fail. 99.9999%

So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends.

If I get 120 VAC on my multimeter, I trust it. If I get 12 or 37 or anything else weird, I turn the digital off and go get the Simpson. It's not as convenient but the old analog doesn't seem to get fooled by phantom volts the way the digitals do.

If the analog shows the same reading, then I've got a wiring problem. I've never actually had that happen though.

On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 12:55:00 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends.

If I get 120 VAC on my multimeter, I trust it. If I get 12 or 37 or anything else weird, I turn the digital off and go get the Simpson. It's not as convenient but the old analog doesn't seem to get fooled by phantom volts the way the digitals do.

If the analog shows the same reading, then I've got a wiring problem. I've never actually had that happen though.

Some new digital VOMs have dual inputs now, high and lower impedance to
solve that problem. I think someone reported here that there were
adapters, essentially a resistor bridge that you could plug in to older
Flukes, etc too.

In article ,
says...

If I get 120 VAC on my multimeter, I trust it. If I get 12 or 37 or anything else weird, I turn the digital off and go get the Simpson. It's not as convenient but the old analog doesn't seem to get fooled by phantom volts the way the digitals do.

If the analog shows the same reading, then I've got a wiring problem. I've never actually had that happen though.




I have seen my Simpson 260 show close to 115 on some wires that are
around the same voltage. However this was in conduit around 200 or more
feet long and about 10 or 15 other wires in it.

One thing I found out is that on the 260 that if I started off on a high
voltage scale and stepped down in voltage scales, if the meter stayed in
the same physical position or near it, then it was the phantom voltage.

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:


So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends.

If I get 120 VAC on my multimeter, I trust it. If I get 12 or 37 or anything else weird, I turn the digital off and go get the Simpson. It's not as convenient but the old analog doesn't seem to get fooled by phantom volts the way the digitals do.

If the analog shows the same reading, then I've got a wiring problem. I've never actually had that happen though.
My old analog high impedence meter used to show "phantom" voltages
too. Holding one probe in each hand cancelled them out - as it does on
a digital meter if it is capacitive or inductive. At 37 volts even if
it is NOT phantom - and is real leakage, it is generally not much more
than slightly unpleasant - - -

On Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:


So this time I put a multimeter to the wires instead of using a voltage tester that just beeps. What I found is the hot (Black) wire from the circuit breaker panel has approximately 12 VAC on it, even when disconnected at both ends.

If I get 120 VAC on my multimeter, I trust it. If I get 12 or 37 or anything else weird, I turn the digital off and go get the Simpson. It's not as convenient but the old analog doesn't seem to get fooled by phantom volts the way the digitals do.

If the analog shows the same reading, then I've got a wiring problem. I've never actually had that happen though.
My old analog high impedence meter used to show "phantom" voltages
too. Holding one probe in each hand cancelled them out - as it does on
a digital meter if it is capacitive or inductive. At 37 volts even if
it is NOT phantom - and is real leakage, it is generally not much more
than slightly unpleasant - - -

And if it's not a phantom voltage, it can cancel you out. A resistor
across the inputs seems like a better idea.