On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:35:55 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to Mark Lloyd :
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:26:49 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to Mark Lloyd :
As a customer, I would consider it unreasonable to get a phone
estimate for one thing, then expect additional work for the same
amount.

Me neither.

However, the question is what is that "one thing"?

You get an over the phone estimate for $50 to hang a new fixture.
The electrician arrives, and discovers that the support point
has rotted out, the wire's insulation is falling off and is half
melted, and it'll require routing a new circuit, with wall
teardown and fishing thru a muddy crawlspace.

"You said you'd do it for $50".

I would know that that $50 is an ESTIMATE (certainly not a guaranteed
amount) that couldn't possibly include unknowns.

_You_ would, but not everyone is that reasonable.


And the rest of that is something I've had to get used to. You have to
suffer for the failings of others. In this case, that's not getting
the estimate because OTHER PEOPLE misuse it.

Furthermore, that's not how the courts interpret "estimates", and
the trades are compelled to treat them the same way.

As guaranteed amounts. Think "car repair estimates" most jurisdictions
consider those to be _firm_ upper limits.

I'd also suggest that in renovations (rather than new construction),
"ballpark estimates" (where you tell the tradesperson UP FRONT that
you're only using the number for budgetary purposes, and would
get them to give you a more accurate estimate on inspection)
often vary so wildly as to be _useless_. Because of the infamous
"jackpot!" problem.

Case in point: watched what was supposed to be a dirt simple
fixture swap turn into the electrician fighting for three
hours with too-short K&T, a non-existant box, too small hole,
etc. The alternative (new wire) would have taken over a day.
--
98 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.
Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND THE
PANEL.

"PaulD" wrote in message
ps.com...
I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.

Sounds close to what I'm hearing. I contacted them today and they talked me
out of upgrading the box until I was ready to go to 200 A service, so for
now they'll install dual grounds, using sufficient copper to allow for
future upgrades - although he mentioned that its the same ground for 100A
and 200A, and replace all the breakers. He's got a guy coming out to mark
the ground spots, locate the utility lines, and then take a quick looky at
the box to level-set the job. $191 for the first hour, $91 each additional
hour work.

Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about
it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded
circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND
THE
PANEL.

On 18 Sep 2006 15:09:15 -0700, "PaulD"
wrote:

I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.

Are parts cheaper in the midwest?

A good square-d panel (with a few included breakers) will cost 200+
here, Pa. Plus additional QO singles are about 5 bucks a piece, and
any grounding upgrades will need wire and rod(s) and pipe clamps(about
3 bucks a piece).

So material alone this could be over 300 bucks.

Was it done by a licensed electrician, permit and inspection?

tom


Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND THE
PANEL.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:20:18 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"PaulD" wrote in message
ups.com...
I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.

Sounds close to what I'm hearing. I contacted them today and they talked me
out of upgrading the box until I was ready to go to 200 A service, so for
now they'll install dual grounds, using sufficient copper to allow for
future upgrades - although he mentioned that its the same ground for 100A
and 200A, and replace all the breakers. He's got a guy coming out to mark
the ground spots, locate the utility lines, and then take a quick looky at
the box to level-set the job. $191 for the first hour, $91 each additional
hour work.


IMHO:

Paying a contractor by the hour is dumb(unless they have the hours
spelled out in the job description, so you are still only paying by
the job). This encourages slop, and waste. They (bad contractors)
can trick you into thinking they are being careful, and purposely
going very slow. Let me guess they offered to do all the clean up and
even vaccuum.

tom

Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about
it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded
circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND
THE
PANEL.

"Tom The Great" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:20:18 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"PaulD" wrote in message
oups.com...
I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.

Sounds close to what I'm hearing. I contacted them today and they talked
me
out of upgrading the box until I was ready to go to 200 A service, so for
now they'll install dual grounds, using sufficient copper to allow for
future upgrades - although he mentioned that its the same ground for 100A
and 200A, and replace all the breakers. He's got a guy coming out to mark
the ground spots, locate the utility lines, and then take a quick looky at
the box to level-set the job. $191 for the first hour, $91 each
additional
hour work.


IMHO:

Paying a contractor by the hour is dumb(unless they have the hours
spelled out in the job description, so you are still only paying by
the job). This encourages slop, and waste. They (bad contractors)
can trick you into thinking they are being careful, and purposely
going very slow. Let me guess they offered to do all the clean up and
even vaccuum.

tom

Boy you must really hate contractors, or have had far too many bad
experiences.
I'm glad I'm not as cynical and world weary as you are.


Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing
circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for
their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about
it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded
circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND
THE
PANEL.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:46 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Tom The Great" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:20:18 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"PaulD" wrote in message
roups.com...
I had two similar jobs done when I sold my house about two years ago
and purchased a new one. On the house sold, they upgraded the system
from a fuse box to a circuit breaker box. On the new house, they
replaced an old breaker box that is now viewed as a fire hazzard and
upgraded the service. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I think
each job was in the $500 to $1,000 range with the electrician providing
material. This was in the midwest. YMMV in different parts of the
country.

Sounds close to what I'm hearing. I contacted them today and they talked
me
out of upgrading the box until I was ready to go to 200 A service, so for
now they'll install dual grounds, using sufficient copper to allow for
future upgrades - although he mentioned that its the same ground for 100A
and 200A, and replace all the breakers. He's got a guy coming out to mark
the ground spots, locate the utility lines, and then take a quick looky at
the box to level-set the job. $191 for the first hour, $91 each
additional
hour work.


IMHO:

Paying a contractor by the hour is dumb(unless they have the hours
spelled out in the job description, so you are still only paying by
the job). This encourages slop, and waste. They (bad contractors)
can trick you into thinking they are being careful, and purposely
going very slow. Let me guess they offered to do all the clean up and
even vaccuum.

tom

Boy you must really hate contractors, or have had far too many bad
experiences.
I'm glad I'm not as cynical and world weary as you are.


Trust no one!





Eigenvector wrote:
I'm calling around for some sort of quotes to replace my failing
circuit
breaker box and so far I've only received one estimate.

The price they quoted was about $2500 bucks roughly or $91/hour for
their
work - including permit and inspection. No other electricians want to
release their hourly rate nor provide estimates. I'm not bitter about
it,
just interested in how much money I'll have to secure to do this.

So if you had to guess, what would it cost to replace a non-grounded
circuit
breaker with a grounded circuit breaker IF I SUPPLIED THE BREAKERS AND
THE
PANEL.