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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.
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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.

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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.



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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


wrote in message
...
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.



I would say most, including me simply, use an extension cord. I have used
an extension cord since 1981. In 1999 I upgraded to a cabinet saw and use a
10-3 extension cord 30' long. I have never tripped over either.
Until I have a larger shop with a stationary and permanent position for the
saw, I will continue using the extension cord.


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


wrote in message
...
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.

Can't address the power question, but if this is a 'clean paper' setup and
the slab hasn't been poured yet, I'd tuck a 3x3 shower stall in that half
bath, especially if there is a SWMBO in the picture. If you are doing a big
project and get all sweaty and sawdust covered, they get real cranky when
you track that into the house. If this fancy shop isn't at home, it is real
nice to be able to clean up before meeting people for dinner.

aem sends....




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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

run conduit in floor install floor outlets for fixed tools like table
saw.

install at least a 100 amp sub panel for your new shop with lots of
convenience outlets.

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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

I would make sure that the feed is a dedicated outlet. Then you can change
the voltage from 110 to 220 by just swapping out outlet an breaker. I would
also go with 10 guage wire just in case you want to move up to a 5HP machine
some day.

The one outlet that I had to "add" in my (20x25) shop after constrution was
the 110 under the saw outfeed table (my saw is in the middle of the room). I
now have a power strip there so I don alway have to plug in on the perimeter
of the room.

-Steve


wrote in message
...
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.



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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


"Clint" wrote in message
news:ZFDKg.501703$iF6.501568@pd7tw2no...
AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and money
saver.



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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


"JoeM" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clint" wrote in message
news:ZFDKg.501703$iF6.501568@pd7tw2no...
AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and money
saver.




Yes the amperage is cut in half because it's split between two circuts not
because your drawing halve the wattage. The wattage stays the same and that
is what your paying for.





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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:57:22 GMT, wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.

Can't address the power question, but if this is a 'clean paper' setup and
the slab hasn't been poured yet, I'd tuck a 3x3 shower stall in that half
bath, especially if there is a SWMBO in the picture. If you are doing a big
project and get all sweaty and sawdust covered, they get real cranky when
you track that into the house. If this fancy shop isn't at home, it is real
nice to be able to clean up before meeting people for dinner.


And it's be good to have a phone in there too. Maybe one of those you
can answer without touching it.

aem sends....

--
113 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

Can't address the power question, but if this is a 'clean paper' setup and
the slab hasn't been poured yet, I'd tuck a 3x3 shower stall in that half
bath, especially if there is a SWMBO in the picture. If you are doing a
big
project and get all sweaty and sawdust covered, they get real cranky when
you track that into the house. If this fancy shop isn't at home, it is
real
nice to be able to clean up before meeting people for dinner.


And it's be good to have a phone in there too. Maybe one of those you
can answer without touching it.



While we are dreaming, don't forget the separate room, with the big screen
TV, surround sound and a pool table! Oops! Don't forget the beer fridge and
wet bar too!
Greg


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

To continue what Rich said, around here we pay for electrical power by the
kilowatt-hour. Wattage = voltage * amps. So if your tablesaw draws 15 amps
at 120v (15A * 120V = 1800W), it's the same as 7.5A @ 240V (7.5A * 240V =
1800W) in terms of actual power used, and therefore cost.

BTW, when replying to (and quoting) someone else's post, it's poor practice
to include the same quote identifier in front of your text. Makes it hard
to pick out what you're trying to say. This is simply my opinion, unlike
some people who will try to what an "Internet Standard" is (regarding
top/bottom posting).

Clint

"JoeM" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clint" wrote in message
news:ZFDKg.501703$iF6.501568@pd7tw2no...
AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and money
saver.





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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

The wattage used by the motor would stay the same, if the voltage to the
motor were the same, although even this is ignoring resistive losses within
the motor. But the phrase "There may be less voltage drop when running 220,
but no energy savings." does not make much sense: The voltage drop amounts
to turning electricity into heat in the wiring, wiring in the building and
in the power cord etc., and it unless you want to count that toward heating
the building it is exactly enery lost, so if there is less of it at 220 then
there is energy saved. There are lots of details if you want to go into
them, such as the back-emf generated by the motor and how that falls off
with load, but overall more of the electricity you are paying for will go
into making sawdust at 220 than
at 110. Going back to the first sentence, note that a different voltage drop
makes for different voltage to the motor, so nothing here is simple.
Bob Wilson

"Rich" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeM" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clint" wrote in message
news:ZFDKg.501703$iF6.501568@pd7tw2no...
AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead

of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no

energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and money
saver.




Yes the amperage is cut in half because it's split between two circuts not
because your drawing halve the wattage. The wattage stays the same and

that
is what your paying for.







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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:11:14 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .

Can't address the power question, but if this is a 'clean paper' setup and
the slab hasn't been poured yet, I'd tuck a 3x3 shower stall in that half
bath, especially if there is a SWMBO in the picture. If you are doing a
big
project and get all sweaty and sawdust covered, they get real cranky when
you track that into the house. If this fancy shop isn't at home, it is
real
nice to be able to clean up before meeting people for dinner.


And it's be good to have a phone in there too. Maybe one of those you
can answer without touching it.



While we are dreaming, don't forget the separate room, with the big screen
TV, surround sound and a pool table! Oops! Don't forget the beer fridge and
wet bar too!
Greg


And virtual racetrack.
--
113 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


wrote in message
...
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.

If it were my shop, I would install a 220 receptacle because the extension
could be twice as long before the voltage drop across the extension would
become a problem. FYI, I plug my saw into a 120 receptacle.

O well, the saw never gets more than 20 feet from the receptacle.

Jim


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

Work is accomplished by watts. You pay for watts, not amps. There is
no savings with 220 volts.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

Watts equals amps times volts.

Lets see. Twice the volts, and half the amps. Multiply by two, and
then multiply by 0.5.... see what happens. Try it yourself, it's a
real surprise.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and

money
saver.




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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

In article . net, 9878
@earthlink.net says...

"Clint" wrote in message
news:ZFDKg.501703$iF6.501568@pd7tw2no...
AFAIK, there is no energy savings to be had, running 220(240?) instead of
110/120. There may be less voltage drop when running 220, but no energy
savings.

DAGS for "120v 240v difference", and have fun.

Clint

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
s.com...

It probably depends on how much you use it. I inherited my dads wood
working equipment, and most of it is 220v but, he used it a good
portion of every day, so it made sense to have it on 220v for the
savings on electricity. I will say they are more powerful than before
he made the motor switch, you just can't lug down the belt sander, and
the table saw is like a hot knife through butter. I don't know if he
upped the HP when he made the change, but they are sweet machines now.


Running 220 volts cuts the amperage in half.This is an energy and money
saver.




Yes, amperage is cut in half but since power is product of amps and
volts, watts are still same. My electric Co. bills on watts
(kilowatts). Does yours bill on amperage?
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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

In article ,
Greg O wrote:
...snipped...


While we are dreaming, don't forget the separate room, with the big screen
TV, surround sound and a pool table! Oops! Don't forget the beer fridge and
wet bar too!
Greg



Hey, you left out the servant's quarters!


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland




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wrote in message
...
In article ,
Greg O wrote:
...snipped...


While we are dreaming, don't forget the separate room, with the big screen
TV, surround sound and a pool table! Oops! Don't forget the beer fridge
and
wet bar too!
Greg



Hey, you left out the servant's quarters!


Considering that unless you are making a living with it, the woodshop itself
is a luxury item, I don't think a simple shower stall (and water heater, if
slop sink OP mentioned was going to be cold water only), is much of a
stretch. Few people bother to run water and drain to the shop, especially in
a seperate building, but OP metioned a half-bath, so adding a shower to that
becomes trivial. Unless a woodshop is a just a display room (like a yuppie
restaurant-grade gourmet kitchen that seldom actually gets used), you do
tend to get dirty working in there.

aem sends....


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


Yes, amperage is cut in half but since power is product of amps and
volts, watts are still same. My electric Co. bills on watts
(kilowatts). Does yours bill on amperage?


It may not be a large difference, but higher voltage transmission lines
will lose less energy to heat than lower voltage ones over distance.
The same could be said for an AC motor winding.

In theory, the power output of a motor running 15A at 120v is identical
to the same rig running 7.5A at 240v, but in practice, this is not the
case. As the load increases, efficiency declines and the motor will
draw more energy from the mains in order to complete its task. the
higher voltage motor will also suffer from this, but to a lesser
degree. This is why you see large scale industrial motors running at
higher voltages (and lower amperages), rather than using something like
120v/50A. I doubt that the savings in electrical cost will be
enormous, but over time it will add up (or subtract up, down, whatever

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"Andrew Williams" wrote in message
news:040920060815068887%andrewSPAMALOT@williamsmus ic.com...
In theory, the power output of a motor running 15A at 120v is identical
to the same rig running 7.5A at 240v, but in practice, this is not the
case. As the load increases, efficiency declines and the motor will
draw more energy from the mains in order to complete its task. the
higher voltage motor will also suffer from this, but to a lesser
degree. This is why you see large scale industrial motors running at
higher voltages (and lower amperages), rather than using something like
120v/50A. I doubt that the savings in electrical cost will be
enormous, but over time it will add up (or subtract up, down, whatever


Yep. Probably save you $1.00 per year.


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Andrew Williams" wrote in message
news:040920060815068887%andrewSPAMALOT@williamsmus ic.com...
In theory, the power output of a motor running 15A at 120v is identical
to the same rig running 7.5A at 240v, but in practice, this is not the
case. As the load increases, efficiency declines and the motor will
draw more energy from the mains in order to complete its task. the
higher voltage motor will also suffer from this, but to a lesser
degree. This is why you see large scale industrial motors running at
higher voltages (and lower amperages), rather than using something like
120v/50A. I doubt that the savings in electrical cost will be
enormous, but over time it will add up (or subtract up, down, whatever


Yep. Probably save you $1.00 per year.



And the savings have been already lost on the whole conversation even at a
$1/hour we have spent more time on this than the savings! Now I like teflon
tape to seal water fittings.........


LOL Happy Labor Day


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

Have a friend with a shop with 10 foot cieling he moves his tools
around. shop is too small for whats in there

anyhow he has some retractable wind up extension cords mounted to
cieling with strings to make access easy.

works well for him no chance of tripping on anything.......



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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?


wrote:
Initiated a new woodworking shop endeavor last week and have "anything
goes" on electrical from the contractor and wonder where the "typical"
power source is for the TS whether 110V or 220V. Currently have 110V
TS and it was plugged into a ceiling receptacle and was happy with
that not having to step over a cord on the floor but inquiring minds
wonder what other alternatives exist. Got the X10 for dust collection
that was utilizing the same circuit and enjoyed it muchly. Small
compressor can use either voltage but will probably convert to 220V
for efficiency. Shop/garage will be 24X30 with 9' ceilings with half
bath and drain board/sink adjacent and 3 windows with 18' garage door
and person door. Anxiously awaiting completion! Anxiously awaiting
responses also.


If you're really considering alternatives and it's not too late (sounds
like it probably is for anything sizable ), the _ideal_ solution is
to run power (and air) in underfloor raceways to areas where equipment
such as the TS, planer, etc., are to be. Overhead and wall receptacles
plentifully scattered around strategically are also to be valued, of
course.

I would also try to arrange for enclosure for stationary dust
collection and air compressor for noise abatement in the shop itself.

If it were me, I'd replace the single double-wide door w/ two, as well.
Being able to open only one is a major advantage imo.

Also concur w/ the shower if possible and would consider strongly a
finishing room w/ ventilation and dust-free environment and
explosion-proof electrics.

How far to go depends, of course, on budget and what one actually
does/intends to do, but those are areas I'd throw out for
consideration...

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"Clint" wrote in message
newsXHKg.502160$iF6.467243@pd7tw2no...
To continue what Rich said, around here we pay for electrical power by the
kilowatt-hour. Wattage = voltage * amps. So if your tablesaw draws 15

amps
at 120v (15A * 120V = 1800W), it's the same as 7.5A @ 240V (7.5A * 240V =
1800W) in terms of actual power used, and therefore cost.


Since the same size wire will carry the same amount of amps at either
voltage, and voltage is what drops as wire runs get longer you tend to get
more power to the motor if you opt for the higher voltage.

Also if you take it to the next step and run the motors on 3 phase power
(assuming it is available) you get a bigger bang for your buck.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


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Default Power for tablesaw in shop?

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 00:47:08 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Roger Shoaf" quickly quoth:


"Clint" wrote in message
newsXHKg.502160$iF6.467243@pd7tw2no...
To continue what Rich said, around here we pay for electrical power by the
kilowatt-hour. Wattage = voltage * amps. So if your tablesaw draws 15

amps
at 120v (15A * 120V = 1800W), it's the same as 7.5A @ 240V (7.5A * 240V =
1800W) in terms of actual power used, and therefore cost.


Since the same size wire will carry the same amount of amps at either
voltage, and voltage is what drops as wire runs get longer you tend to get
more power to the motor if you opt for the higher voltage.


Right, startup torque is higher at 240v, too, so the machine springs
to life a lot quicker.


Also if you take it to the next step and run the motors on 3 phase power
(assuming it is available) you get a bigger bang for your buck.


I missed the original posts, but from this post:

120 and 240v are both single-phase, Roger. He'd have to get a 3-phase
motor and have the utility company put in 3-phase power (usually for
beaucoup additional money IF they do 3-phase in his residential area.)

--
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