drain water heater mystery
 

I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas, open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and allow all
water to come out?

BTW, the water being drained out was clear with some black specks floating
in it. I was expecting murky water.

Anyone knows how to adjust the air pressure in the thermal expansion unit on
the water heater? Or at least check if it is correct? The manufacturer's
instruction only says to hire a plumber :(

http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.htm

drain water heater mystery
 

I'd be tempted to leave the cold water on. Then it woul dhave cold
water pressure at the top of the WH.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"peter" wrote in message
news:dr2Bg.1329$hj4.1147@trnddc03...
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I
turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas,
open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on
the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and
allow all
water to come out?

BTW, the water being drained out was clear with some black specks
floating
in it. I was expecting murky water.

Anyone knows how to adjust the air pressure in the thermal expansion
unit on
the water heater? Or at least check if it is correct? The
manufacturer's
instruction only says to hire a plumber :(

http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.htm

drain water heater mystery
 

turn your sink hot/cold water on to let air in as it drains.

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

drain water heater mystery
 

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd be tempted to leave the cold water on. Then it woul dhave cold
water pressure at the top of the WH.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

The cold water goes to the bottom via the dip tube, not the top. You do
want to turn on the cold water in a few spurts while draining the heater
since the rush of water from the dip tube can help flush out and
sediment accumulating.

The expansion tanks, at least all I've seen, have a regular tire type
valve under the little plastic cap. A regular tire gauge can be used to
check the pressure and a regular tire pump or compressor can be used to
increase the charge. Pressing on the valve core will of course release
the charge.

The charge should be a little above normal water system pressure (a few
PSI) to insure the bladder / diaphram is distended in the correct
direction and allow it maximum working displacement. If it's below the
water pressure for some reason the bladder / diaphram will be collapsed
or distended in the wrong direction and be unable to absorb thermal
expansion.

Pete C.

drain water heater mystery
 

peter wrote:
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas, open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

drain water heater mystery
 

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd be tempted to leave the cold water on. Then it woul dhave cold
water pressure at the top of the WH.


I like opening the T&P valve better.

Your way, the cold water would be entering (through the dip tube) near
the drain valve, and it'd take quite a while before the water at the
top of the tank "really" drained out.

Course, 99.9% the crap is at the bottom of the tank anyway, so my point
is sort of moot, huh?

Hey, maybe the best thing would be a combination of both. Let the tank
drain by gravity with the T&P open, then open the inlet valve full on
for a short while so that water coming out of the dip tube splashes
around the bottom of the (almost) empty tank and maybe sweeps off some
more crud?

I've heard tell the "way to do it" for electric water heaters is to
remove the lower element and stick in a garden hose with a straight
nozzle. Then turn on the water to the hose and twist and bend it around
so that the strong water stream from the nozzle blows stuff off the
inside of the tank bottom. I wonder if anyone has ever actually gone
through the bother of doing that?

Jeff (Straining at a gnat again...)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

drain water heater mystery
 

Think 3,000 PSI pressure washer, and really get it right. Or unscrew
the top element, and pour in a galon of vinegar, to dissolve all the
lime scale. Phosphoric acid works well, too.

OTOH, I like to just open the stupid drain and let it run awhile.
Close the drain and call it good for another year. I get about 94.867%
that way.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd be tempted to leave the cold water on. Then it woul dhave cold
water pressure at the top of the WH.


I like opening the T&P valve better.

Your way, the cold water would be entering (through the dip tube) near
the drain valve, and it'd take quite a while before the water at the
top of the tank "really" drained out.

Course, 99.9% the crap is at the bottom of the tank anyway, so my
point
is sort of moot, huh?

Hey, maybe the best thing would be a combination of both. Let the tank
drain by gravity with the T&P open, then open the inlet valve full on
for a short while so that water coming out of the dip tube splashes
around the bottom of the (almost) empty tank and maybe sweeps off some
more crud?

I've heard tell the "way to do it" for electric water heaters is to
remove the lower element and stick in a garden hose with a straight
nozzle. Then turn on the water to the hose and twist and bend it
around
so that the strong water stream from the nozzle blows stuff off the
inside of the tank bottom. I wonder if anyone has ever actually gone
through the bother of doing that?

Jeff (Straining at a gnat again...)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

drain water heater mystery
 

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd be tempted to leave the cold water on. Then it woul dhave cold
water pressure at the top of the WH.


I like opening the T&P valve better.


Some T&P's won't close evenly and start leaking, necessitating replacement.

drain water heater mystery
 

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
peter wrote:
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas, open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

I'm still scratching my head trying to think of why opening the hot
water faucet didn't work. I don't think your explanation would explain
it. Might slow it down a bit but it should still drain.

Harry K

drain water heater mystery
 

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
peter wrote:
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I
turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas,
open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on
the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and
allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

I'm still scratching my head trying to think of why opening the hot
water faucet didn't work. I don't think your explanation would explain
it. Might slow it down a bit but it should still drain.

If the hot water pipe does indeed go downwards below the level of the drain
valve before it goes back up, then the weight of the water trap in that
downward pipe would resist the weight of the water trying to escape from the
water heater.

Next time I'll try blowing into the hot water faucet to force the trapped
water out of the pipes. Then the draining should start.

drain water heater mystery
 

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
peter wrote:
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I
turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas,
open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on
the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and
allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

I'm still scratching my head trying to think of why opening the hot
water faucet didn't work. I don't think your explanation would explain
it. Might slow it down a bit but it should still drain.

Harry K


There is most likely a heat trap in the line. It is a plastic ball bearing
check valvee usually located right at the outlet of the tank. Only allows
water to leave the tank, now come back in.

-Brian

drain water heater mystery
 

peter wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
peter wrote:
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I
turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas,
open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on
the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and
allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

I'm still scratching my head trying to think of why opening the hot
water faucet didn't work. I don't think your explanation would explain
it. Might slow it down a bit but it should still drain.

If the hot water pipe does indeed go downwards below the level of the drain
valve before it goes back up, then the weight of the water trap in that
downward pipe would resist the weight of the water trying to escape from the
water heater.

Next time I'll try blowing into the hot water faucet to force the trapped
water out of the pipes. Then the draining should start.

Hmmm....mentally picturing the set up. I am of two minds on it. One
says it will drain, the other says you are right.

Being retired I will try to fit an experiment into my busy schedule ;).
Should be able to build a quicky test with a white sealable bucket and
a piece of hose.

My 'it will drain' side says the system would drain as the total
resistance to air entering would be the height of the water colum from
the bottom of the "U" to the top of the water level in the tank. Not
very much PSI there. .46 psi per foot an average tank will be about 5
ft so it would only take about 2 1/2 pounds of 'suck' to draw air in.
That decreases as the water level drops....

but then, due to the "U", there will always be more water column in
the pipe than in the tank....

Why did I ever open this thread!

Harry K

drain water heater mystery
 

Keep in mind also that the flush valves on water heaters are notorious
for clogging with pieces of crust from the heater. And it is sometimes
hard to "work" the valves to clear the junk. OTOH, your heater is only
1 year old, so I would not expect that. Also, it is unlikely that the
flow would stop completely -- unless something more substantial got into
the valve to block it.
The only good way to test all the theories of what is the cause of
your problem, would be to open the Temp/Pres relief valve on the heater
and see if that gives you flow. Also, I hope you have tried opening
more hot water valves than just the one on the second floor. --Phil

peter wrote:

I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas, open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and allow all
water to come out?

BTW, the water being drained out was clear with some black specks floating
in it. I was expecting murky water.

Anyone knows how to adjust the air pressure in the thermal expansion unit on
the water heater? Or at least check if it is correct? The manufacturer's
instruction only says to hire a plumber :(

http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.htm



--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

drain water heater mystery
 

Brian V wrote:

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

peter wrote:

I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after installation). I
turned
off the cold water supply into the water heater, turned off the gas,
open a
hot water faucet on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on
the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have to open the
pressure relief valve to let the rest of the water out. Why is this?
Shouldn't the open faucet on the second floor break the vacuum and
allow all
water to come out?

Normally I'd expecy it should, but maybe it wouldn't work as expected if
you had an unusual plumbing run and the hot water line from the heater
first went down to near the heater's floor level somewhere before it
headed upstairs.

Just a WAG; someone tell please me if I'm way off base on the physics of
that one.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

I'm still scratching my head trying to think of why opening the hot
water faucet didn't work. I don't think your explanation would explain
it. Might slow it down a bit but it should still drain.

Harry K



There is most likely a heat trap in the line. It is a plastic ball bearing
check valvee usually located right at the outlet of the tank. Only allows
water to leave the tank, now come back in.

-Brian



Good call!


Now why didn't I think of that?

Prolly because I only thought of them as "gravity valves" to keep
thermosyphoning from occuring and never considered their effect on water
trying to flow the OTHER way.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

drain water heater mystery
 

"peter" wrote in message
news:dr2Bg.1329$hj4.1147@trnddc03...
I drained my water heater yesterday (1 year after
installation). I turned off the cold water supply into the
water heater, turned off the gas, open a hot water faucet
on the second floor, and then open the drain valve on the
water heater.

About one gallon of water comes out, then no more. I have
to open the pressure relief valve to let the rest of the
water out. Why is this? Shouldn't the open faucet on the
second floor break the vacuum and allow all water to come
out?

BTW, the water being drained out was clear with some black
specks floating in it. I was expecting murky water.

Anyone knows how to adjust the air pressure in the thermal
expansion unit on the water heater? Or at least check if
it is correct? The manufacturer's instruction only says to
hire a plumber :(

http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.htm

It will not drain (siphon) if there is water in a pipe that
is lower than the drain valve. You cannot siphon to a level
higher than the level of the source. Air needs to enter at a
point above the valve. That is why it drained when you
opened the relief valve.

Frank