Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

Al

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

Big Al wrote:
Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

Al



It's supposed to have a little sticker on it that says, "No Equipment
Ground". That makes it OK. :-)

The kitchen outlet right by the sink is like that in my house. It's on
an exterior wall, so very difficult to run a ground wire to it. I just
put in a GFCI outlet and let the ground float. There was just one
kitchen circuit, so I ran another one and it's grounded.

Best regards,
Bob

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:02:28 -0700, "Big Al" wrote:

Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

Al


I think it's a good idea.

I never understood why some people assume a GFCI requires a ground
wire. YOU'RE the ground fault when you touch a malfunctioning
appliance.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:02:28 -0700, "Big Al" wrote:

Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

Al



The NEC tells you you can replace ungrounded circuits with GFCI
receptacles, so you can have some type of ground fault protection.

Can't remember off the top of my head for you actually read it, might
be 406 something. Check for 'receptacle replacement'.

As for cons, I've been told many electronic items use the ground to
dump excess voltage. So, electronic items might have a lowered life
expectancy. Plus, since check with user manuals if you can operate
certain applicances without a effective equipment ground.

imho,

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

"Big Al" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this
a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

It is *especially* a good idea to have GFI if there is no ground.
The only thing I'm not sure is, does the test button on GFI work without a
ground?

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

"Big Al" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this
a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

Al

When adding new pieces of wire and new outlets to an existing ungrounded
circuit, be sure your friend does not connect the ground wires between the
new outlets. This could create a dangerous condition where a fault in one
appliance could energize the external metal case of another device plugged
into the next outlet.

Also check the loading of the circuits. Houses with those old 60A 'Edison'
type panels and fuses tend to not have adequate number of circuits.

One house that I bought in had 4 total 120V circuits with only 1 circuit
feeding the entire kitchen, garage, and laundry. There was an additional
'Edison' (shared neutral circuit) for DW/disposal which was added at some
point external to the panel, but the wires in the rest of the kitchen were
uncomfortably warm to the touch. The sellers insurance forced them to
upgrade to a 100A breaker panel but the electrician just left everything the
same after upgrading the panel. I had to add, divide and run new circuits
myself.

Kevin

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

"peter" writes:
It is *especially* a good idea to have GFI if there is no ground.
Another thing to watch, when i recently went to get some GFCI outlets,
all the ones at the store had a "safety feature" that said the outlet
was designed to not energize without proper grounding. Make sure you
check the box if you decide to go this route.

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:37:44 GMT, "peter" wrote:

"Big Al" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine is remodeling the kitchen in a 40's home. No ground circuit
to anything. He wants to add some GFI receptacles to the kitchen. Is this
a
good or bad idea? As far as we can tell, the wire to the kitchen area is
imbedded in plaster. Does not appear to be in conduit. The fuses are screw
in plug fuses.

It is *especially* a good idea to have GFI if there is no ground.
The only thing I'm not sure is, does the test button on GFI work without a
ground?


On the GFCIs I've looked at, the test button would connect a resistor
between hot on the load side and neutral on the line side. No ground
involved.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

On 17 Jul 2006 09:31:33 -0400, Philip Lewis
wrote:

"peter" writes:
It is *especially* a good idea to have GFI if there is no ground.
Another thing to watch, when i recently went to get some GFCI outlets,
all the ones at the store had a "safety feature" that said the outlet
was designed to not energize without proper grounding. Make sure you
check the box if you decide to go this route.

The one I just installed had the "safety feature", but it's just about
line/load connection reversal and has nothing to do with ground.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Pros and cons of a GFI on a non-grounded circuit
 

On 17 Jul 2006 09:31:33 -0400, Philip Lewis
wrote:

"peter" writes:
It is *especially* a good idea to have GFI if there is no ground.
Another thing to watch, when i recently went to get some GFCI outlets,
all the ones at the store had a "safety feature" that said the outlet
was designed to not energize without proper grounding. Make sure you
check the box if you decide to go this route.


"without proper grounding" or without proper wiring?

tom