Oil vs gas water heating
I live in the northeast. We are landlords of a multi unit apartment.
Currently, oil is going to be going up to $3.00 to $3.20 per gal. The local gas co is charging $1.55 per Therm. Most of the house uses gas for heat and hot water, each paying their own usage. The 1st floor uses oil for heat and hot water, which we pay for. It is occupied by a family of 5, which uses between 1000-1200 gal of oil per year. I turn the heat off after the heating season, leaving the furnace running for the hot water. The furnace is an old American Severn converted coal to oil burning unit, which my oil co tells me is in very good condition for its age. The burner is a Blue Angel Model HS. I don't know the efficiency of it. It is a forced hot water/radiator system. The hot water, currently runs off a small tankless unit, which does tend to run out of hot water on them frequently. It is showing signs of possible leaking, so I need to do something. My 2 options to bypass the tankless a 1. Continue using the furnace, and installing a 30gal stainless steel indirect water heater, or 2. Install a 40 gal gas water heater, which would allow me to shut down the furnace completely, during the non-use period. According to my info, both heaters would suffice for the amount of usage needed. Which would be most cost effective, short and long term? Thank you. |
Oil vs gas water heating
Recruiter wrote: I live in the northeast. We are landlords of a multi unit apartment. Currently, oil is going to be going up to $3.00 to $3.20 per gal. The local gas co is charging $1.55 per Therm. Most of the house uses gas for heat and hot water, each paying their own usage. The 1st floor uses oil for heat and hot water, which we pay for. It is occupied by a family of 5, which uses between 1000-1200 gal of oil per year. I turn the heat off after the heating season, leaving the furnace running for the hot water. The furnace is an old American Severn converted coal to oil burning unit, which my oil co tells me is in very good condition for its age. The burner is a Blue Angel Model HS. I don't know the efficiency of it. It is a forced hot water/radiator system. The hot water, currently runs off a small tankless unit, which does tend to run out of hot water on them frequently. It is showing signs of possible leaking, so I need to do something. My 2 options to bypass the tankless a 1. Continue using the furnace, and installing a 30gal stainless steel indirect water heater, or 2. Install a 40 gal gas water heater, which would allow me to shut down the furnace completely, during the non-use period. According to my info, both heaters would suffice for the amount of usage needed. Which would be most cost effective, short and long term? Thank you. Here's what I would do.....Go to www.heatinghelp.com and post your exact question on the "Wall" on that site. That group has bailed me out of a few situations. Paul |
Oil vs gas water heating
My sense is to go with the 40 gal gas heater. Since it's more common
equipment, it will cost less than the indirect. And it will be more easily serviced, since more plumbers have worked on ordinary NG heaters. As to the cost of fuel, I don't know. However, a coal unit converted to oil is not likely to be energy efficient. Even if it's in good shape. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Recruiter" wrote in message oups.com... I live in the northeast. We are landlords of a multi unit apartment. Currently, oil is going to be going up to $3.00 to $3.20 per gal. The local gas co is charging $1.55 per Therm. Most of the house uses gas for heat and hot water, each paying their own usage. The 1st floor uses oil for heat and hot water, which we pay for. It is occupied by a family of 5, which uses between 1000-1200 gal of oil per year. I turn the heat off after the heating season, leaving the furnace running for the hot water. The furnace is an old American Severn converted coal to oil burning unit, which my oil co tells me is in very good condition for its age. The burner is a Blue Angel Model HS. I don't know the efficiency of it. It is a forced hot water/radiator system. The hot water, currently runs off a small tankless unit, which does tend to run out of hot water on them frequently. It is showing signs of possible leaking, so I need to do something. My 2 options to bypass the tankless a 1. Continue using the furnace, and installing a 30gal stainless steel indirect water heater, or 2. Install a 40 gal gas water heater, which would allow me to shut down the furnace completely, during the non-use period. According to my info, both heaters would suffice for the amount of usage needed. Which would be most cost effective, short and long term? Thank you. |
Oil vs gas water heating
i would replace the oil furnace, for better efficency, and then decide
about a seperate or combined hot water tank. my off the cuff opinion is you can probably save about 40% of you gas bill by upgrading. incidently the oil company LOVES your furnace piggy, they are a business why recommend doing something to cut their sales:( |
Oil vs gas water heating
" I turn the heat off after the heating season, leaving the furnace
running for the hot water.......The hot water, currently runs off a small tankless unit, which does tend to run out of hot water on them frequently. " This is confusing. Is the current hot water supplied by the furnace or a seperate system? In any case, I would agree with the comments that an old coal furnace converted ot oil is likely very inefficient compared to today's systems. I would seriously consider replacing it. Also, I would think that a seperate gas water heater is going to be more efficient than using a furnace to heat the hot water. In the winter, when the furnace is running to generate heat too, it may not make much difference. But I believe firing a larger furnace, especially an ancient one just to supply water is going to be a losing proposition. You could also consider an on demand hot water gas system. |
Oil vs gas water heating
I just had someone in from the oil co to give me some additional info. My burner is running at 78.5-80% efficiency. I probably don't need to upgrade the burner right now. Even he admitted that, although the furnace is in good condition, it is using much more oil than it probably should. Replacing the furnace w/ an internal water heater is about $5000 and a furnace with an indirect unit is about $6800. Both numbers are tough to swallow this year. The alternative is to cap the lines to the tankless and install a gas Water heater. According to the gas co, it should cost about $50/ mo to run the HW. On the other hand, according to the oil co, based on a 1200 gal consumpsion, probably 250 gal is HW. so now we are only talking about the difference of $600/yr for gas vs $750/yr for oil. On top of that, it will cost about $700 to install the new heater and cap off the tankless. Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. |
Oil vs gas water heating
"Recruiter" wrote in message oups.com... Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. Oil price is capped? I've never heard of that and can't prove it by my oil bills. Tell me more. |
Oil vs gas water heating
Recruiter wrote: I just had someone in from the oil co to give me some additional info. My burner is running at 78.5-80% efficiency. I probably don't need to upgrade the burner right now. Even he admitted that, although the furnace is in good condition, it is using much more oil than it probably should. How do you reconcile the fact that it uses much more oil with the 80% efficiancy statement? Replacing the furnace w/ an internal water heater is about $5000 and a furnace with an indirect unit is about $6800. Both numbers are tough to swallow this year. The alternative is to cap the lines to the tankless and install a gas Water heater. According to the gas co, it should cost about $50/ mo to run the HW. On the other hand, according to the oil co, based on a 1200 gal consumpsion, probably 250 gal is HW. so now we are only talking about the difference of $600/yr for gas vs $750/yr for oil. On top of that, it will cost about $700 to install the new heater and cap off the tankless. Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. Oil is capped? But for how long? Also, I think the guestimate you are getting from the oil company as to how much of the oil is going for heat vs hot water is probably just a shot in the dark. If they are close to being right, at $150 a year savings, a seperate gas water heater would pay for itself pretty quickly. |
Oil vs gas water heating
Recruiter wrote:
I just had someone in from the oil co to give me some additional info. My burner is running at 78.5-80% efficiency. That is only combustion efficiency, and not that great at that. A new furnace would certainly be much better than that. I'll bet you are running the hig 60's in total efficiency I probably don't need to upgrade the burner right now. Even he admitted that, although the furnace is in good condition, it is using much more oil than it probably should. Replacing the furnace w/ an internal water heater is about $5000 and a furnace with an indirect unit is about $6800. Well, you need to do something, and the only thing with any real payback is a new furnace, and at 3.00 a gallon, only a 10 percent increase has a 10 year return more or less. Both numbers are tough to swallow this year. The alternative is to cap the lines to the tankless and install a gas Water heater. According to the gas co, it should cost about $50/ mo to run the HW. On the other hand, according to the oil co, based on a 1200 gal consumpsion, probably 250 gal is HW. so now we are only talking about the difference of $600/yr for gas vs $750/yr for oil. On top of that, it will cost about $700 to install the new heater and cap off the tankless. Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. while gas is no cheaper than oil[they track pricewise always], you can get a more efficient gas furnace than oil and usually cheaper. If you figure everything being equal[!] the swithc from your probably 70 percent at best to a 90 percent gas could save you 900 bucks a year in fuel[ at 3.50 a gallon oil] when you figure in the probable lower service costs of the furnace, I'll bet it is almost free |
Oil vs gas water heating
Actually, you have a third alternative. Buy the 40 gallon gas water heater,
but don't bypass your tankless. Feed the gas heater with the output of the tankless. This will significantly cut down on the gas cost for the water heater during the heating season, yet allow you to turn off the boiler in the summer. -- Peace, BobJ "Recruiter" wrote in message oups.com... I live in the northeast. We are landlords of a multi unit apartment. Currently, oil is going to be going up to $3.00 to $3.20 per gal. The local gas co is charging $1.55 per Therm. Most of the house uses gas for heat and hot water, each paying their own usage. The 1st floor uses oil for heat and hot water, which we pay for. It is occupied by a family of 5, which uses between 1000-1200 gal of oil per year. I turn the heat off after the heating season, leaving the furnace running for the hot water. The furnace is an old American Severn converted coal to oil burning unit, which my oil co tells me is in very good condition for its age. The burner is a Blue Angel Model HS. I don't know the efficiency of it. It is a forced hot water/radiator system. The hot water, currently runs off a small tankless unit, which does tend to run out of hot water on them frequently. It is showing signs of possible leaking, so I need to do something. My 2 options to bypass the tankless a 1. Continue using the furnace, and installing a 30gal stainless steel indirect water heater, or 2. Install a 40 gal gas water heater, which would allow me to shut down the furnace completely, during the non-use period. According to my info, both heaters would suffice for the amount of usage needed. Which would be most cost effective, short and long term? Thank you. |
Oil vs gas water heating
Wow, $700 to install a gas water heater? I guess the price of copper
musta gone up a lot. And, also, needs a custom run of black iron for the gas. When wood stove guys old water heater loop, they have to dril a small hole in the cap, to let out the steam pressure. Sometimes old woodstove explode, to pressure in the internal heater loop. Not as much an issue on a boiler that maintains 140F or so. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Recruiter" wrote in message ups.com... I just had someone in from the oil co to give me some additional info. My burner is running at 78.5-80% efficiency. I probably don't need to upgrade the burner right now. Even he admitted that, although the furnace is in good condition, it is using much more oil than it probably should. Replacing the furnace w/ an internal water heater is about $5000 and a furnace with an indirect unit is about $6800. Both numbers are tough to swallow this year. The alternative is to cap the lines to the tankless and install a gas Water heater. According to the gas co, it should cost about $50/ mo to run the HW. On the other hand, according to the oil co, based on a 1200 gal consumpsion, probably 250 gal is HW. so now we are only talking about the difference of $600/yr for gas vs $750/yr for oil. On top of that, it will cost about $700 to install the new heater and cap off the tankless. Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. |
Oil vs gas water heating
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... Wow, $700 to install a gas water heater? I guess the price of copper musta gone up a lot. And, also, needs a custom run of black iron for the gas. Gee...and thats why all the new units we (we being a group of licenced pros, not guys like you) are installing at new construction sites are getting stolen. I guess thats why a lineset that used to be $50 is now $250. I guess thats why the average cost of a units gone sky high. I guess thats why people are getting arrested all around here due to the price of scrap copper...I guess thats why I cant find a section of old copper pipe out back.. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs....WS02/607150334 http://www.buildings.com/Articles/de...ArticleID=3169 http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4817195 http://www.the-dispatch.com/apps/pbc...607140333/1005 |
Oil vs gas water heating
Stormin Mormon wrote: Wow, $700 to install a gas water heater? I guess the price of copper musta gone up a lot. And, also, needs a custom run of black iron for the gas. When wood stove guys old water heater loop, they have to dril a small hole in the cap, to let out the steam pressure. Sometimes old woodstove explode, to pressure in the internal heater loop. Not as much an issue on a boiler that maintains 140F or so. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . "Recruiter" wrote in message ups.com... I just had someone in from the oil co to give me some additional info. My burner is running at 78.5-80% efficiency. I probably don't need to upgrade the burner right now. Even he admitted that, although the furnace is in good condition, it is using much more oil than it probably should. Replacing the furnace w/ an internal water heater is about $5000 and a furnace with an indirect unit is about $6800. Both numbers are tough to swallow this year. The alternative is to cap the lines to the tankless and install a gas Water heater. According to the gas co, it should cost about $50/ mo to run the HW. On the other hand, according to the oil co, based on a 1200 gal consumpsion, probably 250 gal is HW. so now we are only talking about the difference of $600/yr for gas vs $750/yr for oil. On top of that, it will cost about $700 to install the new heater and cap off the tankless. Then, as a friend of mine reminded me, if the cost of gas continues to rise, the $150/yr difference disappears since the oil is capped at that price. Ahh I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe a coal furnace converted to a oil burner is 80% efficent. When was the conversion done? How many years ago? Its highly possible the oil guy has a profit interest in you NOT relpacing that furnace:( I would get a bunch of free estimates just for the heck of it. contact the manufdacturer of the oil conversion burner and ask about efficency of your unit. your local gas station doesnt want you to buy a 50 MPG vehicle either, if you asked they would likely say your gas piggie is great......... |
Oil vs gas water heating
sears installs gas water heater for about a 100 bucks locally, might
cost a bit more for vent. your oil guy is a money hungry fellow, look into a new gas furnace and hot water tank |
Oil vs gas water heating
Marilyn & Bob wrote: Actually, you have a third alternative. Buy the 40 gallon gas water heater, but don't bypass your tankless. Feed the gas heater with the output of the tankless. This will significantly cut down on the gas cost for the water heater during the heating season, yet allow you to turn off the boiler in the summer. -- Peace, BobJ dont bother with a tankless, they cost way too much to buy. i still think you should replace the furnace with a natural gas unit, but if your commited to just the hot water tank go with a 40 gallon natural gas.... |
Oil vs gas water heating
I'm gonna start something....
wrote in message ups.com... Marilyn & Bob wrote: Actually, you have a third alternative. Buy the 40 gallon gas water heater, but don't bypass your tankless. Feed the gas heater with the output of the tankless. This will significantly cut down on the gas cost for the water heater during the heating season, yet allow you to turn off the boiler in the summer. -- Peace, BobJ dont bother with a tankless, they cost way too much to buy. They _do_ cost a bit, but let's look at the real costs. A customer wanted a new gas WH. I gave her a price of $700.00. She also got a price for a heavily advertised brand of tankless WH of $3,500.00 I don't know the life expectancy of a tankless, but a tank type WH has an average life of 12-15 years. Without looking at the cost of gas and assuming a life of the tank WH's at 12 years, she could buy roughly 5 tank type WH's spanning 60 years. Gas is the other thing in this equation. The tankless WH's have a minimum flow of about 3/4 GPM to make it come on. That's actually a pretty good flow and if your house has the galvanized pipes that are old and clogging up, you could be on the borderline of minimum flow. The gas valves are modulating for (I think) 20K BTU's to 199K btu's depending on the flow and the tank type (Standard 40 or 50 gallon WH) is close to 40K all the time. Run at full blast, the tankless has a consumption of 40K BTU/hr and the tankless has 199K BTU/hr. I mentioned life expectancy of the unit earlier. I have no clue how long the tankless will last, but I do know that they have a lot of moving parts and I'm sure these parts ain't cheap to get and install. In 25 years in this industry, I've never replaced anything on a tank type except for T&P valves and thermocouples. IMO, the thermostat design has been around so long that they are nearly bulletproof. Just some thoughts..... (Yes Paul, I didn't remove the crossposted header) |
Oil vs gas water heating
HeatMan wrote: I'm gonna start something.... wrote in message ups.com... Marilyn & Bob wrote: Actually, you have a third alternative. Buy the 40 gallon gas water heater, but don't bypass your tankless. Feed the gas heater with the output of the tankless. This will significantly cut down on the gas cost for the water heater during the heating season, yet allow you to turn off the boiler in the summer. -- Peace, BobJ dont bother with a tankless, they cost way too much to buy. They _do_ cost a bit, but let's look at the real costs. A customer wanted a new gas WH. I gave her a price of $700.00. She also got a price for a heavily advertised brand of tankless WH of $3,500.00 I don't know the life expectancy of a tankless, but a tank type WH has an average life of 12-15 years. Without looking at the cost of gas and assuming a life of the tank WH's at 12 years, she could buy roughly 5 tank type WH's spanning 60 years. Gas is the other thing in this equation. The tankless WH's have a minimum flow of about 3/4 GPM to make it come on. That's actually a pretty good flow and if your house has the galvanized pipes that are old and clogging up, you could be on the borderline of minimum flow. The gas valves are modulating for (I think) 20K BTU's to 199K btu's depending on the flow and the tank type (Standard 40 or 50 gallon WH) is close to 40K all the time. Run at full blast, the tankless has a consumption of 40K BTU/hr and the tankless has 199K BTU/hr. I mentioned life expectancy of the unit earlier. I have no clue how long the tankless will last, but I do know that they have a lot of moving parts and I'm sure these parts ain't cheap to get and install. In 25 years in this industry, I've never replaced anything on a tank type except for T&P valves and thermocouples. IMO, the thermostat design has been around so long that they are nearly bulletproof. Just some thoughts..... Tankless sound great till you run the numbers:( A close cousin is the toyota prius, it costs so much more than a regular vehicle the payback for gas saved exceeds the life expectancy of the vehicle, espically when considering battery bank replacement $$$:( both of these products were poroduced by marketing companies to maximise profits I am all for saving energy but big business just looks at bucks of profits |
Oil vs gas water heating
wrote in message oups.com... HeatMan wrote: I'm gonna start something.... wrote in message ups.com... Marilyn & Bob wrote: Actually, you have a third alternative. Buy the 40 gallon gas water heater, but don't bypass your tankless. Feed the gas heater with the output of the tankless. This will significantly cut down on the gas cost for the water heater during the heating season, yet allow you to turn off the boiler in the summer. -- Peace, BobJ dont bother with a tankless, they cost way too much to buy. They _do_ cost a bit, but let's look at the real costs. A customer wanted a new gas WH. I gave her a price of $700.00. She also got a price for a heavily advertised brand of tankless WH of $3,500.00 I don't know the life expectancy of a tankless, but a tank type WH has an average life of 12-15 years. Without looking at the cost of gas and assuming a life of the tank WH's at 12 years, she could buy roughly 5 tank type WH's spanning 60 years. Gas is the other thing in this equation. The tankless WH's have a minimum flow of about 3/4 GPM to make it come on. That's actually a pretty good flow and if your house has the galvanized pipes that are old and clogging up, you could be on the borderline of minimum flow. The gas valves are modulating for (I think) 20K BTU's to 199K btu's depending on the flow and the tank type (Standard 40 or 50 gallon WH) is close to 40K all the time. Run at full blast, the tankless has a consumption of 40K BTU/hr and the tankless has 199K BTU/hr. I mentioned life expectancy of the unit earlier. I have no clue how long the tankless will last, but I do know that they have a lot of moving parts and I'm sure these parts ain't cheap to get and install. In 25 years in this industry, I've never replaced anything on a tank type except for T&P valves and thermocouples. IMO, the thermostat design has been around so long that they are nearly bulletproof. Just some thoughts..... Tankless sound great till you run the numbers:( A close cousin is the toyota prius, it costs so much more than a regular vehicle the payback for gas saved exceeds the life expectancy of the vehicle, espically when considering battery bank replacement $$$:( We were looking at a replacement for the Momma-mobile. She didn't want to look at a sedan because she's ridden 'high' for nearly all her married life so the Pruis was out. We did look at the Ford Explorer(?) hybrid, but 2 things knocked it out. 1) it ran on Battery only up to 25 to 30 MPH, per the sales person. 2) the battery pack would last 70K to 80K miles and we traditionally put 130K to 150K on a vehicle before we move on. $8,000 for a new battery pack ain't cheap and doesn't make much 'fiscal' sense. I am all for saving energy but big business just looks at bucks of profits Profit is not a dirty word. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money. |
Oil vs gas water heating
I am all for saving energy but big business just looks at bucks of profits Profit is not a dirty word. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money. Profit is both fine and necessary. But cars like the prius have negative payback period, Unless your driving 100,000 a year maybe not even then. Show me a savings like moving from a 10 MPG vehicle to something comporable that gets 20 MPG and I am all ears:) |
Oil vs gas water heating
The fact is, you have no idea what you are talking about. Consumers Union
did a calculation, which after admitting that they made some wrong assumptions in thier first article, found that the Prius had a very positive savings over five years (based on 15K miles driven per year). And that was before gas went up from $2.50 (their calculation point) to $3.00 a gallon. More importantly, the carbon (global warming) cost of owning the Prius (say you bought back your impact on the environment) returned your break even point to less than 18 months. If you count in the tax benefit (which because of the tremendous sale of the Prius gets cut in half after September, 2006), you actually start ahead from the original purchase. Again it is easy to make statements based on your ideology, but totally devoid of facts. -- Peace, BobJ wrote in message oups.com... I am all for saving energy but big business just looks at bucks of profits Profit is not a dirty word. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money. Profit is both fine and necessary. But cars like the prius have negative payback period, Unless your driving 100,000 a year maybe not even then. Show me a savings like moving from a 10 MPG vehicle to something comporable that gets 20 MPG and I am all ears:) |
Oil vs gas water heating
Marilyn & Bob wrote: The fact is, you have no idea what you are talking about. Consumers Union did a calculation, which after admitting that they made some wrong assumptions in thier first article, found that the Prius had a very positive savings over five years (based on 15K miles driven per year). And that was before gas went up from $2.50 (their calculation point) to $3.00 a gallon. More importantly, the carbon (global warming) cost of owning the Prius (say you bought back your impact on the environment) returned your break even point to less than 18 months. If you count in the tax benefit (which because of the tremendous sale of the Prius gets cut in half after September, 2006), you actually start ahead from the original purchase. Again it is easy to make statements based on your ideology, but totally devoid of facts. -- Peace, BobJ Well we looked at a prous and ended up buying a chevy cobalt. It was about 8 grand less for cobalt, prius had NO tax break at the time and since we hold onto cars a LONG time the battery cost, I couldnt get a solid answer on that:( local dealers hadnt replace one at the time when you take the 8 grand price difference and add the finance cost of the 8 grand over the life of the loan its a lot. 10 grand or so? how much gas do you neeed to save 10 grand? plus the cost of repairs with such a new model my friendly indenpendent mechanic didnt want the servce work or most of it, so it would be dealer rate, about twice of my mechanic. add a replacement battery and payback is forever:( I DO BELIEVE WE MUST MOVE TO A DIFFERENT FUEL BUT PRIUS ISNT AFFORDABLE:( |
Oil vs gas water heating
Sorry I left that out. There is no reason to believe that the main
(traction) battery will ever have to be replaced for the lifetime of the car in 99.9% of the cases. In any case the battery is warranteed for 8 years (10 years in CA emission states). Just remember that if you keep your car forever, most likely you will have to replace your transmission (more expensive than a Prius battery) and/or need an engine rebuild. This is especially true on a Chevy Cobalt, which is not made to last like Toyota products. -- Peace, BobJ wrote in message ups.com... Marilyn & Bob wrote: The fact is, you have no idea what you are talking about. Consumers Union did a calculation, which after admitting that they made some wrong assumptions in thier first article, found that the Prius had a very positive savings over five years (based on 15K miles driven per year). And that was before gas went up from $2.50 (their calculation point) to $3.00 a gallon. More importantly, the carbon (global warming) cost of owning the Prius (say you bought back your impact on the environment) returned your break even point to less than 18 months. If you count in the tax benefit (which because of the tremendous sale of the Prius gets cut in half after September, 2006), you actually start ahead from the original purchase. Again it is easy to make statements based on your ideology, but totally devoid of facts. -- Peace, BobJ Well we looked at a prous and ended up buying a chevy cobalt. It was about 8 grand less for cobalt, prius had NO tax break at the time and since we hold onto cars a LONG time the battery cost, I couldnt get a solid answer on that:( local dealers hadnt replace one at the time when you take the 8 grand price difference and add the finance cost of the 8 grand over the life of the loan its a lot. 10 grand or so? how much gas do you neeed to save 10 grand? plus the cost of repairs with such a new model my friendly indenpendent mechanic didnt want the servce work or most of it, so it would be dealer rate, about twice of my mechanic. add a replacement battery and payback is forever:( I DO BELIEVE WE MUST MOVE TO A DIFFERENT FUEL BUT PRIUS ISNT AFFORDABLE:( |
Oil vs gas water heating
Marilyn & Bob wrote: Sorry I left that out. There is no reason to believe that the main (traction) battery will ever have to be replaced for the lifetime of the car in 99.9% of the cases. In any case the battery is warranteed for 8 years (10 years in CA emission states). Just remember that if you keep your car forever, most likely you will have to replace your transmission (more expensive than a Prius battery) and/or need an engine rebuild. This is especially true on a Chevy Cobalt, which is not made to last like Toyota products. -- Peace, BobJ The toyota dealer did admit battery bank has finite lifetime X number of charge discharge cycles and X overall life in years. Despite GMs reputation our cobalt hasnt missed a beat, and is great/ If all GM products were this good they wouldnt be on the edge of bankruptcy/ Toyota products are very good but when you need a part they are WAY overpriced A lot of people buy new cars every few years, I tend to hold onto them forever |
Oil vs gas water heating
wrote in message ups.com... Marilyn & Bob wrote: Sorry I left that out. There is no reason to believe that the main (traction) battery will ever have to be replaced for the lifetime of the car in 99.9% of the cases. In any case the battery is warranteed for 8 years (10 years in CA emission states). Just remember that if you keep your car forever, most likely you will have to replace your transmission (more expensive than a Prius battery) and/or need an engine rebuild. This is especially true on a Chevy Cobalt, which is not made to last like Toyota products. -- Peace, BobJ The toyota dealer did admit battery bank has finite lifetime X number of charge discharge cycles and X overall life in years. As is often the case, the sales critter had no idea what he is talking about. Call (or e-mail) Toyota corporate for a better answer. If there was a real chance that a significant number of the batteries would fail before something like 12 years/200 miles (and there have been a number of earlier Prius out there with over 200K miles) they could not warantee the batteries for a long as they do. (Note that, ofc ourse, the battery does has a finite life, it just happens to be longer than the useful life of the car). -- Peace, BobJ Despite GMs reputation our cobalt hasnt missed a beat, and is great/ If all GM products were this good they wouldnt be on the edge of bankruptcy/ Toyota products are very good but when you need a part they are WAY overpriced A lot of people buy new cars every few years, I tend to hold onto them forever |
Oil vs gas water heating
The toyota dealer did admit battery bank has finite lifetime X number of charge discharge cycles and X overall life in years. As is often the case, the sales critter had no idea what he is talking about. Call (or e-mail) Toyota corporate for a better answer. If there was a real chance that a significant number of the batteries would fail before something like 12 years/200 miles (and there have been a number of earlier Prius out there with over 200K miles) they could not warantee the batteries for a long as they do. (Note that, ofc ourse, the battery does has a finite life, it just happens to be longer than the useful life of the car). -- Peace, consumer reports also questioned the battery life and at the time of purchase there was no clear info. so get a link to a official toyota site detailing battery life and warranty. i bet you cant becuse battery life depends on location. in the desertt southwest high temps eat batterys. around pittsburg the jarring of bad rough roads effect the life a lot. now get those links and we can talk futher. I still believe JUST the purchase price difference kills any savings but we shall see |
Oil vs gas water heating
wrote in message Despite GMs reputation our cobalt hasnt missed a beat, and is great/ If all GM products were this good they wouldnt be on the edge of bankruptcy/ A lot of people buy new cars every few years, I tend to hold onto them forever How many miles so far? I thought he same way about my LeSabre. My Regal has some minor problems, but it is 15 years old, 149,000 miles, and I got my money's worth with no major repair. Last LeSabre had 97,000 and no major repairs. Present LeSabre may force me to an Altima/Maxima or Camry/Avalon. Brake rotors ($160), wheel bearing ($200 for the part) power window (propped closed with a stick) and transmission rebuild ($2600), heated seat (not repaired, $560 for the part) have me turned off. Oh, the air pump for the emissions system is making noise when cold at startup ($400) Just seems to be falling part after about 5 years. Anything mechanical will wear, but this one is going to fast, too soon. |
Oil vs gas water heating
How many miles so far? I thought he same way about my LeSabre. About 20,000 so far anmd not a thing other than opne safety recall they did it while I waited about a half hour. My regular mechanic chjanges the oil. It starts and runs well the bst vehicle we have ever owned, thats saying a lot since I am 49:( |
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