Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

My role is that of an advisor to correct this farce (I'm related by
in-law once removed). I wasn't involved in the original work (thank
heavens) so I can't comment as to why it didn't work as planned;
however, I do feel that the plywood-over-linoleum idea should have
worked OK, if it had been done correctly, and I see it has been
recommended in this newsgroup, so I probably would have gone along
with the idea if I'd have been consulted at the start, but not
necessarily the idea to use staples.

Thanks,

Dale

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

I would tear it down to subfloor and try again. This time, when
stapling down the luan (1/4") use subfloor adhesive first to help hold
it down. Maybe look into using longer staples if possible, it's
possible that the staples aren't penetrating the subfloor deep enough
to hold.

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

"dalemstevens" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

My role is that of an advisor to correct this farce (I'm related by
in-law once removed). I wasn't involved in the original work (thank
heavens) so I can't comment as to why it didn't work as planned;
however, I do feel that the plywood-over-linoleum idea should have
worked OK, if it had been done correctly, and I see it has been
recommended in this newsgroup, so I probably would have gone along
with the idea if I'd have been consulted at the start, but not
necessarily the idea to use staples.

Thanks,

Dale


Many vinyl installers won't use luan. The problem is not too short staples.
The problem is the luan. Most is not 1/4 inch making the 3 veneer layers
very thin. The staples blow right though it. The use of a proper
underlayment is the solution.

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

On 22 May 2006 09:24:36 -0700, "dalemstevens"
wrote:

Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

My role is that of an advisor to correct this farce (I'm related by
in-law once removed). I wasn't involved in the original work (thank
heavens) so I can't comment as to why it didn't work as planned;
however, I do feel that the plywood-over-linoleum idea should have
worked OK, if it had been done correctly, and I see it has been
recommended in this newsgroup, so I probably would have gone along
with the idea if I'd have been consulted at the start, but not
necessarily the idea to use staples.

Thanks,

Dale

Is it padded vinyl?
Is there a seam or line in the pattern you can cut? is the
bubbled area lifting because the plywood is too big, or what?
Was this a commercial job, or in his own house, where he
can live with a band-aid approach?

Taking a router and routing a big X through the middle of the
bubble would probably remove enough material to make the
plywood lay down flat. THen he could inject glue under it
to make it stay that way. Unfortunately, that leaves a
big X in the middle of the floor. So you then have to
take the router and turn it into a 4' compass rose, and
fill the trenches with epoxy. . .

Hmm.. Maybe you could just cut out a circle around the
bubble, and claim it's a UFO landing site.

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

Staples may not be the best choice, depends on what they're going into. A
better choice probably would have been ring shank nails.


"dalemstevens" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

My role is that of an advisor to correct this farce (I'm related by
in-law once removed). I wasn't involved in the original work (thank
heavens) so I can't comment as to why it didn't work as planned;
however, I do feel that the plywood-over-linoleum idea should have
worked OK, if it had been done correctly, and I see it has been
recommended in this newsgroup, so I probably would have gone along
with the idea if I'd have been consulted at the start, but not
necessarily the idea to use staples.

Thanks,

Dale

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

dalemstevens wrote:
Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

It depends how perfect it has to look.

You could put screws through the linoleum/plywood/linoleum into the
sub-floor.

If there is a pattern where the screw holes wouldn't stand out too badly
it might be okay. You can fill the screw holes with some sort of filler
when you're done, yo match the color of the linoleum.

Every house I've owned that had linoleum has had many layers of it,
without any plywood in between. Why did he put the plywood in?

Plywood-Over-Linoleum Disaster; Solution?
 

On 22 May 2006 09:24:36 -0700, "dalemstevens"
wrote:

Hi,

Any suggestions for the best way out of the following linoleum floor
installation disaster?

A (young) installer (with experience) opted to cover an old linoleum
floor with quarter-inch plywood and then cover that with new linoleum.
The plywood was secured with abundant use of one-inch staples dispensed
from a quality gun, then the new linoleum was glued to the plywood.
The problem is that the plywood has bowed up in the center, at least a
4 foot diameter bubble raised about a half inch. How could this
happen? Obviously the staples failed. Would the approach have worked
if screws secured to the floor joists were used instead of random
application of staples to the subfloor? The linoleum is glued tight
and if one tries to pull it up the paper backing tears and is an ugly
mess.

I'm trying to think of solutions; I hate to recommend a lot of
unnecessary work, such as tear everything out, or pull off the
linoleum, scrape off the glue, screw the plywood down into the floor
joists and try again. I know this sounds insane, but could the bubbled
plywood be screwed down through the new linoleum (into the floor
joists) and a second layer of plywood be used and newer linoleum glued
to that? Seems to me that if this is done the big bubble will just
become smaller bubbles.

My role is that of an advisor to correct this farce (I'm related by
in-law once removed). I wasn't involved in the original work (thank
heavens) so I can't comment as to why it didn't work as planned;
however, I do feel that the plywood-over-linoleum idea should have
worked OK, if it had been done correctly, and I see it has been
recommended in this newsgroup, so I probably would have gone along
with the idea if I'd have been consulted at the start, but not
necessarily the idea to use staples.

Thanks,

Dale
Dale, I also think all those layers should be ripped up. There is a
new type of vinyl floor that need not be glued down. It comes 4 meter
wide or about 13'. It has a fiberglass backing instead of cardboard
and thus more flexable. So after the ripup belt sand the high spots
and use a levelor on the low spots.