Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

See ==== inline:

"Beowulf" wrote in message
newsan.2006.04.06.21.53.21.398948@wayoftheancien ts.trail...
....
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green
and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the
two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red
and which
gets the green?

==== It depends on a lot of things, but mixing them up
would -probably- never be noticed. Keep red to red and green to
green and you should never have a problem.
FWIW, with the phone hung up, the red lead should be negative
w/r to the green wire. There's a bout a 99% chance the wires
coming in from the telco will have that DC polarity correct, but
when things seem 'funny' it's worth checking out.
If the wires were reversed, it will NOT cause any damage to
anything. The worst would likely happen is some really cheap
phone equipment might not count the incoming ringing voltage
properly since it's 90Vac riding on top of 48V DC. I'd be
surprised if you ever noticed it, though since equipment hasn't
been that cheaply made in some time. It takes all of 4 cheap
diodes to make the equipment immune to polarity of the wires g.


Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red,
black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really
needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on
the basement
rafter?
==== No, not for standard, plain old telephone service. You
can cut them off even with the jacket if you wish to get them out
of the way. Only the two wires are necessary.
Actually, some people use the other two wires for intercoms,
things like that. But you don't need them.

And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the
black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?
==== IFF you had a key system or something that used them,
rather than just plain old service like you probably have, it
would matter. For some systems, there ARE uses for those wires
but you're not likely to have that type if you're just wiring up
plain old telephones.


I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting
this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up
to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead;
there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the
problem for
now is on their end.
==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc", did
you make sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be
certain, always disconnect the house wiring from the demarc
before testing.
Also, don't let them come into your house without telling them
you are NOT authorizing any charges of any kind for them. I let
one clown in thru my garage doors once, and he looked up at the
box on the way by, and commented on the neat wiring job. I
received a BILL for "inside services" from the telco! They
didn't get away with it!

Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box.
==== Repair -should- do exactly what you did: disconnect the
house wiring, and then put their butt-set on it to see if there's
dialtone there and that the voltage is in spec. If it's not, the
problem will be on their lines somewhere between where they
connected the butt-set and the telco. They do NOT have to go
into your house for any of that. If they go inside, then you're
likely going to get charged for it, even if all they do is tell
you that there's a short "somewhere" in your wiring.

But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own,
==== Well, you don't -have- to be on your own. They'll
probably be glad to fix it, but it's going to cost you. So,
you're doing the right thing.

frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones
working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

Best of luck, & HTH,

Pop

Try ----------- www.homephonewiring.com/index.html


"Pop" wrote in message
news:LDgZf.2080$Vy3.812@trndny02...
See ==== inline:

"Beowulf" wrote in message
newsan.2006.04.06.21.53.21.398948@wayoftheancien ts.trail...
...
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

==== It depends on a lot of things, but mixing them up would -probably-
never be noticed. Keep red to red and green to green and you should never
have a problem.
FWIW, with the phone hung up, the red lead should be negative w/r to the
green wire. There's a bout a 99% chance the wires coming in from the
telco will have that DC polarity correct, but when things seem 'funny'
it's worth checking out.
If the wires were reversed, it will NOT cause any damage to anything.
The worst would likely happen is some really cheap phone equipment might
not count the incoming ringing voltage properly since it's 90Vac riding on
top of 48V DC. I'd be surprised if you ever noticed it, though since
equipment hasn't been that cheaply made in some time. It takes all of 4
cheap diodes to make the equipment immune to polarity of the wires g.


Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter?
==== No, not for standard, plain old telephone service. You can cut
them off even with the jacket if you wish to get them out of the way.
Only the two wires are necessary.
Actually, some people use the other two wires for intercoms, things like
that. But you don't need them.

And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?
==== IFF you had a key system or something that used them, rather than
just plain old service like you probably have, it would matter. For some
systems, there ARE uses for those wires but you're not likely to have that
type if you're just wiring up plain old telephones.


I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my
house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end.
==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc", did you make
sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be certain, always
disconnect the house wiring from the demarc before testing.
Also, don't let them come into your house without telling them you are
NOT authorizing any charges of any kind for them. I let one clown in thru
my garage doors once, and he looked up at the box on the way by, and
commented on the neat wiring job. I received a BILL for "inside services"
from the telco! They didn't get away with it!

Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box.
==== Repair -should- do exactly what you did: disconnect the house
wiring, and then put their butt-set on it to see if there's dialtone there
and that the voltage is in spec. If it's not, the problem will be on
their lines somewhere between where they connected the butt-set and the
telco. They do NOT have to go into your house for any of that. If they
go inside, then you're likely going to get charged for it, even if all
they do is tell you that there's a short "somewhere" in your wiring.

But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own,
==== Well, you don't -have- to be on your own. They'll probably be glad
to fix it, but it's going to cost you. So, you're doing the right thing.

frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

Best of luck, & HTH,

Pop

Beowulf wrote:
Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall


Have your taken a look at one of the many web sites about telephone wiring?

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/phone_wiring.html

http://www.hometech.com/learn/wiringst.html

http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/...s.1.040401.asp

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:30:03 +0000, Pop inscribed to the world:
....
==== It depends on a lot of things, but mixing them up
would -probably- never be noticed. Keep red to red and green to
green and you should never have a problem.

Do you mean keep all the red wires from the inside phone lines on the same
pole/terminal of the (not sure what to call it) junction box, and the
green wires on the other terminal?


FWIW, with the phone hung up, the red lead should be negative
w/r to the green wire. There's a bout a 99% chance the wires
coming in from the telco will have that DC polarity correct, but
when things seem 'funny' it's worth checking out.

You lost me at hello.

==== No, not for standard, plain old telephone service. You
can cut them off even with the jacket if you wish to get them out
of the way. Only the two wires are necessary.
Actually, some people use the other two wires for intercoms,
things like that. But you don't need them.

Ok i will just use the green and red wires where I connect them to the
junction/terminal poles on my basement rafter (where the main phone line's
two wires attach to those two poles [bolts with nuts])


==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc", did
you make sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be
certain, always disconnect the house wiring from the demarc
before testing.

ok i did not know that.



Also, don't let them come into your house without telling them
you are NOT authorizing any charges of any kind for them. I let
one clown in thru my garage doors once, and he looked up at the
box on the way by, and commented on the neat wiring job. I
received a BILL for "inside services" from the telco! They
didn't get away with it!
....

Good to know, I will keep them out of my house!

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:05:27 +0000, Rich256 inscribed to the world:
...
Have your taken a look at one of the many web sites about telephone wiring?

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/phone_wiring.html

http://www.hometech.com/learn/wiringst.html

http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/...s.1.040401.asp


Yes, actually I had looked at and printed out all three of those websites
before posting here. The info at those sites was mostly over my head,
beyond my wiring needs, did not answer some real basics that I asked here,
but I did glean some useful info, mostly about the need for just red and
green, that is a 2-wire system is all I need for my simply home phones.

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:53:21 -0500, Beowulf
wrote:

Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

In answer to a question I had here I learned that thing is the surge
bypasser or surpressor (probably not its real name. I forget that.)

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Yes. I've heard it is different on (some?) later phones, but on real
phones, Western Electric phones**, and those that are good imitations,
if you don't have red and green right, you can talk and listen but on
touch-tone, you can't dial.

**Western Electric are the phones that God intended, and are the
actual phones used in Heaven.

All the others are Satanic.

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

If I anticpated failure, or if I were using the wire for something
that required more amperage, that's what I would do. That's what I do
do. I might leave the black and yellow unconnected now. If I were
running new wire, I might run more than 4-conductor. Part of my house,
from 1979 already, is run with 20 conductor wire, anticpating whatever
they invent next.

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

If you had a dial tone before, you'll have one when they fix their
end. If you can't dial, because it's backwards, and you did the red
to red thing (btw, you can see red and green inthe modular wires
themselves. Just look close.) I'd reverse things in the basement if
aiui, there are no colors indicated on that thing you mentioned.

Certainly you should call yourself, or have someone else do it, after
you are connected. You should test everything after a big change like
here.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:08:58 -0500, Beowulf
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:30:03 +0000, Pop inscribed to the world:
...
==== It depends on a lot of things, but mixing them up
would -probably- never be noticed. Keep red to red and green to
green and you should never have a problem.

Do you mean keep all the red wires from the inside phone lines on the same
pole/terminal of the (not sure what to call it) junction box, and the
green wires on the other terminal?

Hope I'm not horning in on POP, but on the theory that beow will try
to finish this tonight: Yes, and at the other end of the wire, say
it's a wall plate, connect the red wire from the 4-conductor wire to
the screw that is connected to the short red wire that goes to one of
the spring wires in the socket that the modular cord plugs into.

And if you ever make your own modular cords, make sure that the red is
the second from the left (or third, I don't remember) when the modular
plug is held with its tang on the top side (or the bottom, I don't
remmember, but compare with the end another modular cord and do it the
same way.)


FWIW, with the phone hung up, the red lead should be negative
w/r to the green wire. There's a bout a 99% chance the wires
coming in from the telco will have that DC polarity correct, but
when things seem 'funny' it's worth checking out.

You lost me at hello.

I would put it: If the phone worked fully before the phone company
broke it, you had it right, so it is still right.

OK that's not the same thing, and I can't say exactly what was meant .

==== No, not for standard, plain old telephone service. You
can cut them off even with the jacket if you wish to get them out
of the way. Only the two wires are necessary.
Actually, some people use the other two wires for intercoms,
things like that. But you don't need them.

Ok i will just use the green and red wires where I connect them to the
junction/terminal poles on my basement rafter (where the main phone line's
two wires attach to those two poles [bolts with nuts])

Right. That thing has room for plenty of wires.

==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc", did
you make sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be
certain, always disconnect the house wiring from the demarc
before testing.

ok i did not know that.

In my case, that is automatic, because I have to unplug the house
before I can plug in a phone. Don't iknow about other cases.

Also, don't let them come into your house without telling them
you are NOT authorizing any charges of any kind for them. I let

In Verizon in Baltimore, I just wanted to get a radio station filter,
which iiuc, are free if you are having problems, but there was NO way
to talk to someone at the repair number. It asked some automated
questions, and said "they might call before they came". Now my
description made it pretty clear the problem was in the house, but
they didn't say they would call first, and I was afraid to complete
the signuup.

A while later I got closer to the problem -- too complicated to
describe -- and I think when I clean things up, it will probably go
away.

one clown in thru my garage doors once, and he looked up at the
box on the way by, and commented on the neat wiring job. I
received a BILL for "inside services" from the telco! They

Wow.

OTOH, Verizon here actually spent 90 minutes fixing a problem for a
nearby friend, including what I didn't see but was a burned out wire
under the large size wall-phone plate in the kitchen, and they didn't
charge him anything. Apparently he thought a phone line surge broke
the wire, even though they have a surge suppressor in the basement,
and according to my friend's wife, they didn't touch that.

didn't get away with it!
...

Good to know, I will keep them out of my house!

I don't think I read here where anyone answered your question about the
other two wires. They are for a second line so you won't need them.

Stick with the green/red all throughout your house but I would like to
add a few things to help you out.

First, they make a cheap led tester that you can plug in an outlet to
let you know if the polarity is reversed. What happens if you leave it
that way--well some phones just won't dial--no tone.

Second, it's best to run a line from the terminal block to each phone in
your house. Reason for this is if one gets shorted you can keep
disconnecting the lines until you find the bad one and over time you
will get a bad one or shorted line for various reasons.

J




Beowulf wrote:
Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

In article rail,
Beowulf wrote:

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important?

No.

Polarity was important MANY years ago but no longer.

are the black and yellow really needed

No.

POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) uses a PAIR of copper wires to do their
thing. Extra pairs are just that: Extra. They are there in case trouble
develops with the original (red/green) pair. They are also available should a
SECOND phone line be needed.

should the black go with the green, and the yellow with the red?

Yes.

Honestly, though: This, too, doesn't matter.

Many old-time phone techs may disagree but, many years ago, I located the
actual B.S.P. (Bell System Practice) that identified black as a TIP color and
yellow as a RING color.

I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end.

I wouldn't be so sure. If it was working OK to start, then it failed, I would
NOT expect trouble outside. Rather, you were plugging and un-plugging phones
and otherwise messing with the system. Odds are the trouble IS inside your
home.

Of course, if you have a properly installed, official N.I.D. (Network
Interface Device) serving your home, you used a KNOWN-GOOD phone, and there is
NO DIAL TONE when plugged-in at the NID, the trouble is NOT inside.

Good luck.
--

JR

In article ,
mm wrote:

two plain wires that each connect to a pole (bolt with nut)
on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

that thing is the surge bypasser or surpressor

It is a "protector".

That is an old-fashioned term surely coming from the very earliest days of
telephony in the late 1800s.

It's a vague term by today's standards, however. The protector used still
today will NOT provide any protection from the "transients" (voltage surges)
that traverse utility lines CONSTANTLY. But when all this was invented and
deployed, the old, black rotary telephones didn't CARE about transients. They
were built like Mac trucks and lasted forever.

The new stuff today that is plugged-into the phone line is different. They
are equipped with a simple "chip" that took the place of the old, copper-wound
network that was surge resistant. The newer "chips" aren't so forgiving.

Even so, one should avoid using common, "surge bar" plug strips with
input/output jacks for your phone line ahead of a DSL modem. They have been
known to interrupt the DSL signal.

The protector, ostensibly present at the customer end of EVERY cable pair
will, however, keep your house from burning down in the event of a SERIOUS
surge (lightning striking nearby, power line falling across phone line, etc).
However, in the event of a DIRECT lightning strike, ALL bets are OFF.

**Western Electric are the phones that God intended, and are the
actual phones used in Heaven.

All the others are Satanic.

This is SOOO funny. Of course, you are correct!

After the breakup of The Bell System in 1984 and the resulting proliferation
of Cheapie Chirpertm phones hanging from a peg at the local Target, folks
have forgotten what a ahem *REAL* telephone is like.

Give me a 2500 (Touchtonetm desk telephone) or give me a drink!
--

JR

In article ,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

should the black go with the green, and the yellow with the red?

Yes.

Honestly, though: This, too, doesn't matter.

Many old-time phone techs may disagree but, many years ago, I located the
actual B.S.P. (Bell System Practice) that identified black as a TIP color and
yellow as a RING color.


I seem to recall that as well.. the cool colors (green, black) were tip,
and the warm colors (red, yellow) were ring.. but that only applies to
quad.. (pardon me: D-station wire)



In the standard 5 X 5 color matrix, the tip colors a
white, red, black, yellow, violet
the ring colors a
blue, orange, green, brown, slate


starting with the first tip color, and the first ring color, and incrementing
ring color, then tip color, you get 25 pairs.


--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --

Color coding used to be simple just remember Christmas ( red and green =
line one )
and Halloween ( black 7 yellow = line 2)

See http://www.hometech.com/learn/wiringst.html

"Beowulf" wrote in message
newsan.2006.04.06.21.53.21.398948@wayoftheancien ts.trail...
Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:12:52 -0500, Jim Redelfs inscribed to the world:
...
Of course, if you have a properly installed, official N.I.D. (Network
Interface Device) serving your home, you used a KNOWN-GOOD phone, and there is
NO DIAL TONE when plugged-in at the NID, the trouble is NOT inside.
...

No dial tone at NID jack, used a brand new AT&T corded phone I bought at
hardware store (just so I would know a test phone was good), and the wire
form the NID serving my home is just a black insulated wire with two plain
copper wires that attach to two poles/bolts on a thing my basement rafter.
So with no dial tone at the NID box outside, seems it must be something at
the NID box. Telepone co. is supposed to come today again to fix this, I
will be curious to find out.

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:53:19 -0400, Joey inscribed to the world:
....
First, they make a cheap led tester that you can plug in an outlet to
let you know if the polarity is reversed. What happens if you leave it
that way--well some phones just won't dial--no tone.

Yup, I bought one of those too yesterday, put it in the modular jack of
the NID box and no light at all.


Second, it's best to run a line from the terminal block to each phone in
your house. Reason for this is if one gets shorted you can keep
disconnecting the lines until you find the bad one and over time you
will get a bad one or shorted line for various reasons.
...

That seems to be the setup, I think it is called star topology from what I
read. Whoever wired the phones before did it that way. Right now, I have
disconnected ALL the phone lines from the terminal on the basement rafter
(supplied by NID/Demarc box from outside phone line box), and just
connected a simple 5 foot long phone line I made yesterday with new phone
copper wire and a simple modular plug and a simple cheap corded phone,
used red and green copper wires attached each to one of the terminal poles
on the basement rafter (supplied by NID line from the box outside).

Beowulf wrote:
Any help greatly appreciated! I had phone service reactivated to my home
(giving up cell phone)-- the phone line (black) comes into my wall to my
basement rafter, consists of two plain wires that each connect to a pole
(bolt with nut) on a thing that is connected to a basement rafter.

Ok, so I know I connect the wires from the phone lines to those two poles
where the main line comes in, but is the order important? What I mean is,
I know phones generally only need only two lines, such as green and red,
for usage, so I attach the gree and red wires to each of the two poles of
the thing on the rafter, but does it matter which pole gets red and which
gets the green?

Also, the modular phone jacks have terminals for green, red, black, and
yellow, which I connect, but are the black and yellow really needed if
only green and red are attached to the main pole terminal on the basement
rafter? And if the black and yellow are needed, is their order of
attachment on the main pole terminal important, and should the black go
with the green, and the yellow with the red?

I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
dial tone at the "Demarc(ation) box" phone jack so I know the problem for
now is on their end. Their repair is coming back to check for a short etc
at the main box. But once they confirm a dial tone at the box I am on my
own, frustrating and I want to understand this to get my phones working
once I have a signal from the phone company.

Thank you in advance,
Randall


If you feel the side of the black drop wire that runs between the NID
and the protector on your basement rafter you will find that one side of
it is ridged.

The old time lineman's limerick was:

The ring is ridged or red, readable to ground, and it terminates on the
right.

So the red wires from your inside wiring terminate on the right hand
side of your old protector if the ridged side of that drop wire is
terminated on that side. If the protector is not mounted vertically
with the drop wires terminated on the left and right then you should ask
more questions. Keeping the polarity of those wires consistent will
help you with trouble shooting later. If you ever add a second
telephone line or install an intercom you will need the black and yellow
wires so instead of cutting them off the best practice is to wrap them
back around the cable jacket so they remain available if needed.
--
Tom Horne

"people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve
neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin

In article ,
(Bob Vaughan) wrote:

(pardon me: D-station wire)

Ding! (Give that man a cigar)

Light Olive-Gray Quad. It was from the actual Western Electric printing on
the D-station wire carton that I learned the proper way to "tin" the end of a
conductor and connect it without pinching (in the threads) to the binding
post. It is a technique that I have used for years and still use today.

In the standard 5 X 5 color matrix, the tip colors a
white, red, black, yellow, violet

Why Run Backward You Varmint

the ring colors a
blue, orange, green, brown, slate

There was a catchy phrase for these but it was never important to remember
because the actual colors, used so regularly, quickly became as basic as
red/green, yellow/black had been (and still is).

starting with the first tip color, and the first ring color, and incrementing
ring color, then tip color, you get 25 pairs.

You should see what it takes to repair 1800-pairs when a directional boring
bit "spears" the cable dead center - and clear through. Call before you dig.
--

JR

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:53:21 -0500, Beowulf inscribed to the world:
....
I appreciate any help, I am having one hell of a time getting this sorted
out, in part because of the phone company-- they hooked my up to my house,
I had a dial tone, then 5 minutes later the line went dead; there was no
....

I have phone tone! Phones working now, hell of a mystery. Turns out the
phone line from the street to the NIC/Demarc box was bad, corroded, the
phone company had to string in a whole new phone line from the pole to the
outside NIC box! The temporary (30-60 second) usage I had, i.e. dial tone,
yesterday, was just from static electricity left in the line that allowed
a temporary dial tone. They put in a new line from the street and all is
working now. Thank you for your help everybody! I have learned a great
deal about phone wiring, etc.!

In article . net,
Thomas Daniel Horne wrote:

If you feel the side of the black drop wire that runs between the NID
and the protector on your basement rafter you will find that one side of
it is ridged.

From what I've read, the NID was a retrofit using a section of the old, aerial
drop wire to make the jump from the NID outside to the old protector location
in the joist downstairs. This is very typical.

It is certainly possible and very LIKELY that the old protector downstairs is
still providing the circuit protection that, had the retrofit been done
properly, would be done by new protectors inside the NID box outside. This
can be determined by the presence (or lack thereof) of a 10-gauge copper
ground wire running to the telco-side of the NID outside.

If there ISN'T a ground wire to the NID (there should be), and especially if
the service is still fed with an aerial drop, the old protector in the
basement is still necessary for its circuit protection.

Knowing what I know (and do for a living), and YOU now know, I would request
that my service be upgraded with a properly grounded and protected NID. The
connection point (former protector) in the basement would remain ONLY as a
simple connection point.

So the red wires from your inside wiring terminate on the right hand
side of your old protector if the ridged side of that drop wire is
terminated on that side. If the protector is not mounted vertically
with the drop wires terminated on the left and right then you should ask
more questions.

Not necessary. At this point, that old wire should be replaced.

With a NID outside (grounded or not), the "jump" between the NID and the old
protector downstairs, currently an *OLD* hunk of brittle drop wire, needs to
be changed-out with modern, twisted pair station wire.

Keeping the polarity of those wires consistent will
help you with trouble shooting later.

Only if your 20-year-old Western Electric desk set's Touchtonetm keypad quit
Touchtone-ing. The first, few generations of Touchtonetm telephones were
engineer so that, with the polarity of the pair being "proper", the phone
would full work. With the polarity of the pair REVERSED, the keypad on the
phone quit working. You could ANSWER the phone but could not make calls. I
suspect this may have been a "feature" rather than a bug in the interest of
keeping things as complicated as possible to discourage the public from
messing with their phones and phone service - an illegal practice for almost
100 years.

Polarity (red or green? It doesn't matter) hasn't been important for years.
I wasn't sad to see the issue go away. Our Central Office MDF (Main
Distributing Frame) still has quite a number of "reversing" heatcoils - made
specifically to reverse a line for the use of Touchtonetm!

If you ever add a second
telephone line or install an intercom you will need the black and yellow
wires so instead of cutting them off the best practice is to wrap them
back around the cable jacket so they remain available if needed.

Good advise. Always cut it LONG. If it's too long, you can always cut off
some more. If you start out cutting it too short, you can't make it longer
and it's REALLY hard to work on.
--

JR

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:32:20 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:


Polarity (red or green? It doesn't matter) hasn't been important for years.
I wasn't sad to see the issue go away. Our Central Office MDF (Main
Distributing Frame) still has quite a number of "reversing" heatcoils - made
specifically to reverse a line for the use of Touchtonetm!

So even a real Touchtone phone doesn't have to be connected right
anymore? The central offices have a way to make it right even if it
is wrong?

Is that true everywhere? or at least in Baltimore?

Yes. I've heard it is different on (some?) later phones, but on real
phones, Western Electric phones**, and those that are good imitations,
if you don't have red and green right, you can talk and listen but on
touch-tone, you can't dial.

**Western Electric are the phones that God intended, and are the
actual phones used in Heaven.

All the others are Satanic.


Western Electric Telephones, such as the famous model 500 were built
to last 40 years (and indeed some have gone more than that).

The reason was that prior to the Bell breakup... Most homes and
businesses rented their phones and could not own them. To reduce
service calls, they were built like tanks, with heavy metal stampings,
true metal bells, a potted network, heavy-duty dialers, and no wimpy
modular connectors on the cables. The wires had solid crimp
connectors attached to screws and a solid metal strain-relief. To
move a phone to a different room was a major project. You probably
should call the phone man.

I remember back in the early sixties, establishing new phone service
was a relatively pleasant, if time consuming experience.

One went to the local AT&T branch office (in my case, it was Illinois
Bell). Often these were office areas attached to the local town
telephone exchange. A nice lady (they were always women back then)
would invite you to her desk, serve you coffee, and then ask you
questions about establishing your service.

Then you got to pick your phone from the Western Electric models on
display. Most often this would be the model 500 available mostly in
black, but sometimes other colors were available. Later, you could
get a princess or a trimline wall phone if you wanted. If you wanted
a lighted dial, then the installer would use the yellow and black
wires for a lighting circuit and wire these to a plug in transformer
somewhere in your house (The birth of the very first wall warts!) I
heard that sometimes, these would catch on fire.

At some point touch-tone became available, but Illinois Bell stuck you
with an extra 70 cents per month to be this modern. My father always
argued that dial telephones were good enough for him.

Most numbers had alpha prefixes like PA9-2222 (Park 9) or AL1-1234
(Alpine 1). You might know your area code, but you never needed to
dial it.

Directory Assistance was live and free, available 24 hours a day, and
you could use it as much as you wanted. (I think we should have a
law today that says that this is as it should be...)

Phone trouble? Dial #0 for operator or 611 for repairs and within
seconds you were speaking to a live person who could solve your
problem, again, 24 hours a day. No voice mail hell back then.

Beachcomber

Hi mm,
I never have a problem with folk "horning in", as long as they
are accurate and/or clarifying/correcting something! Good job,
IMO; thanks.
Pop
--
"Never forget that everything Hitler did
in Germany was legal." - Martin Luther King, Jr.


"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:08:58 -0500, Beowulf
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:30:03 +0000, Pop inscribed to the world:
...
==== It depends on a lot of things, but mixing them up
would -probably- never be noticed. Keep red to red and green
to
green and you should never have a problem.

Do you mean keep all the red wires from the inside phone lines
on the same
pole/terminal of the (not sure what to call it) junction box,
and the
green wires on the other terminal?

Hope I'm not horning in on POP, but on the theory that beow
will try
to finish this tonight: Yes, and at the other end of the wire,
say
it's a wall plate, connect the red wire from the 4-conductor
wire to
the screw that is connected to the short red wire that goes to
one of
the spring wires in the socket that the modular cord plugs
into.

And if you ever make your own modular cords, make sure that the
red is
the second from the left (or third, I don't remember) when the
modular
plug is held with its tang on the top side (or the bottom, I
don't
remmember, but compare with the end another modular cord and do
it the
same way.)


FWIW, with the phone hung up, the red lead should be
negative
w/r to the green wire. There's a bout a 99% chance the wires
coming in from the telco will have that DC polarity correct,
but
when things seem 'funny' it's worth checking out.

You lost me at hello.

I would put it: If the phone worked fully before the phone
company
broke it, you had it right, so it is still right.

OK that's not the same thing, and I can't say exactly what was
meant .

==== No, not for standard, plain old telephone service.
You
can cut them off even with the jacket if you wish to get them
out
of the way. Only the two wires are necessary.
Actually, some people use the other two wires for
intercoms,
things like that. But you don't need them.

Ok i will just use the green and red wires where I connect them
to the
junction/terminal poles on my basement rafter (where the main
phone line's
two wires attach to those two poles [bolts with nuts])

Right. That thing has room for plenty of wires.

==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc",
did
you make sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be
certain, always disconnect the house wiring from the demarc
before testing.

ok i did not know that.

In my case, that is automatic, because I have to unplug the
house
before I can plug in a phone. Don't iknow about other cases.

Also, don't let them come into your house without telling
them
you are NOT authorizing any charges of any kind for them. I
let

In Verizon in Baltimore, I just wanted to get a radio station
filter,
which iiuc, are free if you are having problems, but there was
NO way
to talk to someone at the repair number. It asked some
automated
questions, and said "they might call before they came". Now my
description made it pretty clear the problem was in the house,
but
they didn't say they would call first, and I was afraid to
complete
the signuup.

A while later I got closer to the problem -- too complicated to
describe -- and I think when I clean things up, it will
probably go
away.

one clown in thru my garage doors once, and he looked up at
the
box on the way by, and commented on the neat wiring job. I
received a BILL for "inside services" from the telco! They

Wow.

OTOH, Verizon here actually spent 90 minutes fixing a problem
for a
nearby friend, including what I didn't see but was a burned out
wire
under the large size wall-phone plate in the kitchen, and they
didn't
charge him anything. Apparently he thought a phone line surge
broke
the wire, even though they have a surge suppressor in the
basement,
and according to my friend's wife, they didn't touch that.

didn't get away with it!
...

Good to know, I will keep them out of my house!

....

==== Just for grins, when you checked it at the "demarc",
did
you make sure you had YOUR house wiring disconnected? To be
certain, always disconnect the house wiring from the demarc
before testing.

ok i did not know that.


....
That's a very important part of the picture. If you've
accidentally caused a short somewhere, and you do not disconnect
the house, then that short will still be there when you test at
the demarc. By disconnecting the house, you remove the short and
your dialtone may well return after a short pause.
Note that a short sets off an "alarm" in the central office,
which in turn disables dialtone to your phone line, followed a
few minutes later by removal of the battery voltage. That way a
storm problem or car accident doesn't knock out the whole central
office due to many shorts.
If you did have a short: when you disconnect the house to
test at the demarc, it may be several seconds before the telco
automatically restores battery voltage and dialtone to your phone
line. It -will- come back though; it will not stay gone. So,
give it a minute or so to return if it's not there at the demarc.

If however, you have an open circuit (something not connected
that needs to be), you would never know the difference at the
demarc, but ... you -would- have dialtone, meaning the telco is
delivering dialtone to you and the problem is someplace in the
house.

I've seen several good links to phone wiring here; assume you've
at least looked at some of them.

Usually, in my case at least, the tech will grab the house wiring
and do a quick test on it, without asking, at which time you are
free to say something like "Thank you for the free test; that was
nice of you". G. Most techs are good working guys just like
us, so ... .

Pop

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:32:20 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:


Polarity (red or green? It doesn't matter) hasn't been
important for years.
I wasn't sad to see the issue go away. Our Central Office MDF
(Main
Distributing Frame) still has quite a number of "reversing"
heatcoils - made
specifically to reverse a line for the use of Touchtonetm!

So even a real Touchtone phone doesn't have to be connected
right
anymore? The central offices have a way to make it right even
if it
is wrong?

Is that true everywhere? or at least in Baltimore?


The "fix" is actually inside the phones that you buy. The DC
voltage is passed through a full wave rectifier so that no matter
which polarity is connected, it passes thru the bridge to the
internal cktry in the correct polarity. It's a very old phone
these days that cares about the polarity, but even some of the
old but more recent phones still have problems with ringing
detection if the polarity is reversed and won't ring properly.
Ring voltage detection, although basic, is probably the most
complex part of a simple telephone.

Ring voltage, BTW, is enough to give you a fairly good jolt, so
beware when you're handling telephone wiring.

Pop

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:01:01 GMT, (Beachcomber)
wrote:


Yes. I've heard it is different on (some?) later phones, but on real
phones, Western Electric phones**, and those that are good imitations,
if you don't have red and green right, you can talk and listen but on
touch-tone, you can't dial.

**Western Electric are the phones that God intended, and are the
actual phones used in Heaven.

All the others are Satanic.


Western Electric Telephones, such as the famous model 500 were built
to last 40 years (and indeed some have gone more than that).

The reason was that prior to the Bell breakup... Most homes and
businesses rented their phones and could not own them. To reduce
service calls, they were built like tanks, with heavy metal stampings,
true metal bells, a potted network, heavy-duty dialers, and no wimpy
modular connectors on the cables. The wires had solid crimp
connectors attached to screws and a solid metal strain-relief. To
move a phone to a different room was a major project.

That's another problem about these days: You have all these phones
wandering around like vagrants, tramps, and hussies.

Some don't even have an address. They'll go home with anyone.

You probably should call the phone man.

I'm not going to set up any illicit rendezvous.

I remember back in the early sixties, establishing new phone service
was a relatively pleasant, if time consuming experience.

One went to the local AT&T branch office (in my case, it was Illinois
Bell). Often these were office areas attached to the local town
telephone exchange. A nice lady (they were always women back then)

Women have an affinity for establishing phone service. The desk job
part, that is.

would invite you to her desk, serve you coffee, and then ask you
questions about establishing your service.

Then you got to pick your phone from the Western Electric models on
display. Most often this would be the model 500 available mostly in
black, but sometimes other colors were available. Later, you could
get a princess or a trimline wall phone if you wanted. If you wanted
a lighted dial, then the installer would use the yellow and black
wires for a lighting circuit and wire these to a plug in transformer

I knew they were there for sumpin'.

somewhere in your house (The birth of the very first wall warts!) I
heard that sometimes, these would catch on fire.

At some point touch-tone became available, but Illinois Bell stuck you
with an extra 70 cents per month to be this modern. My father always
argued that dial telephones were good enough for him.

Most numbers had alpha prefixes like PA9-2222 (Park 9) or AL1-1234
(Alpine 1). You might know your area code, but you never needed to
dial it.

When my mother first married my father and moved to western Pa. she
would pick up the phone and say, Oliver 4-2343, please; or Oliver
4-3873, please, and after a few days the operator said, "You don't
have to say Oliver 4, Ma'am. They're all Oliver 4."

In my first year of college, I had a BUtterfield-8 phone number.
Remember that one?

Directory Assistance was live and free, available 24 hours a day, and

No, no. It was Information, and people would call for all sorts of
information, although all I ever did was once call some city to find
out what time it was there.

you could use it as much as you wanted. (I think we should have a
law today that says that this is as it should be...)

Phone trouble? Dial #0 for operator or 611 for repairs and within
seconds you were speaking to a live person who could solve your
problem, again, 24 hours a day. No voice mail hell back then.

Beachcomber

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:33:23 -0400, mm
wrote:


In Verizon in Baltimore, I just wanted to get a radio station filter,
which iiuc, are free if you are having problems, but there was NO way
to talk to someone at the repair number. It asked some automated
questions, and said "they might call before they came". Now my

BTW, I think they meant that they *might* come, and if they did, they
*would* call before they came -- for one thing, they would want me to
be home if they were coming -- but they didn't say that, so I was
afraid to continue. Maybe there was even a place to leave a message,
but I'm not at all sure there was.

description made it pretty clear the problem was in the house, but
they didn't say they would call first, and I was afraid to complete
the signuup.

A while later I got closer to the problem -- too complicated to
describe -- and I think when I clean things up, it will probably go
away.

Something doesn't work with my in-house wires. So I'm using the NIC
and I've got a wire from it running up the front of the house and in
the bedroom window to my phone and computer. Then I'm using the house
wiring to go down to the kitchen and basement**.

Anyhow, when I have the wire from the phone machine on the second
floor connected to the preinstalled house wire that goes to the
kitchen, I pick up WBAL AM radio and it's really annoying. For some
reason, I think if I ever get the original entry point to the house
working again, this problem will go away.



**but I had to disconnect my own bedroom because there is probably a
short in the wiring. I ran the wiring myself, because the previous
owner put a layer of sheetrock over the jack and I don't know where it
is. Except my bed is on a different wall anyhow.

In article ,
mm wrote:

So even a real Touchtone phone doesn't have to be connected right
anymore?

That depends on what constitutes a "real" Touchtone phone. The oldest ones
have to be wired right. The newer (all now at least 10-15-years old)
Touchtone phones didn't care.

To me, a "real" Touchtone phone is at least 15-years old, was made by Western
Electric, and was of the old Desk or Wall or Princess configuration. Those
phones are "polarity" sensitive as are the first generation, round-button
Trimline phones that use a dial light transformer to illuminate the buttons.

With the pair connected one way, the Touchtonetm keypad will work -
depressing a button/key will "break the dialtone".

With the pair reversed, the phone will ring, you can talk on it, but you can
NOT dial a call. The keypad doesn't work. It stays SILENT when any key is
pressed. It doesn't "break the dialtone".

Even the later model Trimlinetm phones had a "polarity guard" making
red/green orientation unimportant.

Said another way: If you have a Touchtonetm phone that has a non-working
keypad (NONE of the keys make a noise at all), check and note the keypad
function when the offending phone is plugged-into other jacks.

The central offices have a way to make it right even if it
is wrong?

Yes, as long as it is an ANCIENT, Western Electric phone.

Is that true everywhere? or at least in Baltimore?

Probably.
--

JR

In article ,
(Beachcomber) wrote:

If you wanted a lighted dial, then the installer would use the yellow
and black wires for a lighting circuit and wire these to a plug in
transformer somewhere in your house

To this day, I encounter these from time to time. Many are still plugged-in
but haven't been needed for YEARS.

(The birth of the very first wall warts!)

HA! I never thought of that but you're right: When those "dial light"
transformers began service, they were the ONLY "wall wart" in a house - for
many, many years.

I heard that sometimes, these would catch on fire.

I got in on the tail end of this debacle.

The new "lighted dial" Princess then Trimline phones required a separate A.C.
transformer for their dial light power. I'm not sure how many years after the
wall warts first appeared, but some years later, The Bell System contracted
with a company named "Ault" to manufacture these little "warts". I don't know
how much time elapsed but, due to more than a few meltdowns and fires, The
Bell System launched a *HUGE*, massive, nationwide "Ault Transformer
Inspection" program.

At some point touch-tone became available, but Illinois Bell stuck you
with an extra 70 cents per month to be this modern.

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or # on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.
--

JR

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:32:57 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:


At some point touch-tone became available, but Illinois Bell stuck you
with an extra 70 cents per month to be this modern.

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or # on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were added

I had one of those.

early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.

By the time I was using it much, I missed those two buttons, so I
found key pads at hamfests or rummage sales before then and put in the
12 button pad. The first one didn't work at all, but the second
different one worked well. I used a hot knife from a soldering iron
to cut 2 more squares in the face plate. Hardly noticeable that the
holes were new.


JR

Confusion in the last line!!!

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:19:46 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
mm wrote:

So even a real Touchtone phone doesn't have to be connected right
anymore?

That depends on what constitutes a "real" Touchtone phone. The oldest ones
have to be wired right.

That's what I thought, but something in the previous post made me
think there had been an improvement at the Central Station.

The newer (all now at least 10-15-years old)
Touchtone phones didn't care.

I have a touch tone phone going back to 1962 or earlier. I think that
was the one that was originally 10-button.

I was also at a farm show in 1957 where the phone company, I guess it
was, had a booth, and they demonstrated a touch tone phone. This one
also had plastic cards, maybe 2x4 inch, that were pre-semi-perforated.
You wrote the name of the person at the top of the card, and then
completed punching out 3mm holes to make his phone number. Each line
was one number, but there weren't ten holes per line, only about 5 so
maybe it was binary or something.

Then one held the card vertically and pushed the card, twice as thick
as a credit card, into the slot in the top of the phone where it
stayed. Then one pushed a button and the card came out, touch-toning
the number as it came. It was cool.


To me, a "real" Touchtone phone is at least 15-years old, was made by Western
Electric, and was of the old Desk or Wall or Princess configuration. Those
phones are "polarity" sensitive as are the first generation, round-button
Trimline phones that use a dial light transformer to illuminate the buttons.

OK. I agree with your definitions.

With the pair connected one way, the Touchtonetm keypad will work -
depressing a button/key will "break the dialtone".

With the pair reversed, the phone will ring, you can talk on it, but you can
NOT dial a call. The keypad doesn't work. It stays SILENT when any key is
pressed. It doesn't "break the dialtone".

Even the later model Trimlinetm phones had a "polarity guard" making
red/green orientation unimportant.

Said another way: If you have a Touchtonetm phone that has a non-working
keypad (NONE of the keys make a noise at all), check and note the keypad
function when the offending phone is plugged-into other jacks.

The central offices have a way to make it right even if it
is wrong?

Yes, as long as it is an ANCIENT, Western Electric phone.

Wait a second. Those are what you said above wouldn't work.

Is that true everywhere? or at least in Baltimore?

Probably.

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or # on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.

I want a phone-set with buttons for the other four tone-pairs. :-(

Goedjn wrote:
Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or # on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.

I want a phone-set with buttons for the other four tone-pairs. :-(


Then you buy a surplus TA/312-PT in good condition and add a TA-955 tone
adapter to it. The phones are available on Ebay and the adapters are
available from surplus dealers.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or #
on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were
added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed
Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.

I want a phone-set with buttons for the other four tone-pairs. :-(

Actually, the specifications for TT are a 4x5 grid, and the military was
somewhat involved in the R&D process. Back then, the dividing line between
Ma Bell and the Feds was rather fuzzy in spots. ATT long lines, and the
military phone system, were rather intertwined. Satellites and VOIP, along
with other companies actually owning outside plant and long lines/fiber,
have made things more distinct. I've seen the 2500 phones with the extra
buttons- they supposedly did magical things on the old AUTOVON network,
including seizing trunks when needed. In my collection, I used to have a
2500 w/o the * and # buttons- not sure what happened to it. All the copper
parts were there for the two missing buttons- they just didn't put buttons
above them. Different top cover with the square holes, and 2 less buttons.

aem sends...

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Beachcomber) wrote:

If you wanted a lighted dial, then the installer would use the yellow
and black wires for a lighting circuit and wire these to a plug in
transformer somewhere in your house

To this day, I encounter these from time to time. Many are still
plugged-in
but haven't been needed for YEARS.

(The birth of the very first wall warts!)

HA! I never thought of that but you're right: When those "dial light"
transformers began service, they were the ONLY "wall wart" in a house -
for
many, many years.

I heard that sometimes, these would catch on fire.

There was actually a recall on the ones made by a certain manufacture. I
never
found one but they did make effort to get the word out. My notice came in
the
phone bill.

I got in on the tail end of this debacle.

The new "lighted dial" Princess then Trimline phones required a separate
A.C.
transformer for their dial light power. I'm not sure how many years after
the
wall warts first appeared, but some years later, The Bell System
contracted
with a company named "Ault" to manufacture these little "warts". I don't
know
how much time elapsed but, due to more than a few meltdowns and fires, The
Bell System launched a *HUGE*, massive, nationwide "Ault Transformer
Inspection" program.

At some point touch-tone became available, but Illinois Bell stuck you
with an extra 70 cents per month to be this modern.

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or #
on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed
Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic switches.
--

JR
--
Herb

"ameijers" wrote in message
...

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Did you know that, for the first couple of years, there was no * or #
on
the Touchtone keypad? They were 10-button phones. The * and # were
added
early on but did *NOTHING* for YEARS - until Call Forwarding and Speed
Dialing
became available as Central Offices were upgraded to electronic
switches.

I want a phone-set with buttons for the other four tone-pairs. :-(

Actually, the specifications for TT are a 4x5 grid, and the military was
somewhat involved in the R&D process. Back then, the dividing line between
Ma Bell and the Feds was rather fuzzy in spots. ATT long lines, and the
military phone system, were rather intertwined. Satellites and VOIP, along
with other companies actually owning outside plant and long lines/fiber,
have made things more distinct. I've seen the 2500 phones with the extra
buttons- they supposedly did magical things on the old AUTOVON network,
including seizing trunks when needed.

Yeah! AUTOVON. Mostly, when I was near an AUTOVON phone I was told
NOT to f**k with the right row of buttons. Not sure what they all did, but
you
could basically the planet (as far as our military is concerned). I'd
suppose louse
up my career too at the time. I'm thinking very early 1970's.

In my collection, I used to have a
2500 w/o the * and # buttons- not sure what happened to it. All the copper
parts were there for the two missing buttons- they just didn't put buttons
above them. Different top cover with the square holes, and 2 less buttons.

aem sends...
--
Herb