I've done some research in the groups on backup sump pumps, and between
the water powered pump, the generator backup and battery powered backup
I've decided on the battery powered backup.

One thing that I wasn't able to find in the hour I was googling around
the groups is battery selection. If I get a system from Lowes, I still
have to provide a battery, and they provide a manufacturer 12volt
battery that is 75 AH for $113. For that price, I can get two 650 AH
batteries and run them in parallel. There's a local tractor supply
store that will sell me the cables for the parallel hookup (that place
has cool stuff).

The battery they sell doesn't look like a car battery at all, even
though its 12 volts and heavy as can be (about 20 lbs?)

My initial assumption is that it should work fine to use a Walmart car
battery (marine deep cycle), but there have been other things that I
have assumed to be so that aren't.

Any thoughts?

any deep cycle battery should work and will need perodic replacement
They DONT last forever! maybe 3 or 4 years

Your better off with ONE LARGE BATTERY because in parallel 2 battery
that look the same may not be identical and self discharge one another.
Different ages, and minor production variations can cause that.

just curious is there any way to drain your sump by gravity. lots of
people have sumps with pumps that could drain to say a low spot away
from the house but people never thought of it or didnt want to do the
digging

Good point about one battery taking out the other. My wife's Alfa Romeo
164 used to use a huge battery (for tractors), but it would be way
overkill in terms of replacement cost versus time it may potentially be
used. I hope to get a small generator for camping, so I'm thinking I
can use that for emergencies past 8 hours. I'm more concerned about
the autmatic cutover when the AC sump goes out/off.

Actually, there is a place where it should drain out. Even though my
basement is 6 feet underground, there is a 15 degree slope going down
the road and my house is above the sewer level, so it would drain out
under ideal situations assuming water only comes through the sump area
and not through other parts of my foundation. I have a floor drain 4
feet from the sump pit, but I'm worried about major flooding that might
cause the sewers to backup into the house. I have an aftermarket
device in the drain to prevent backflow, but a congruence of calamaties
(power out, big rain storm, overflowing storm drains etc.) could reak
havoc and the resulting "wife storm" damage could be much worse, so
hence the battery backup.

Batteries eventualy die and only pump a few hours. City water powered do
not wear or die.

Be sure to get a charger appropriate for whatever battery you end up
purchasing.

wrote:
I've done some research in the groups on backup sump pumps, and between
the water powered pump, the generator backup and battery powered backup
I've decided on the battery powered backup.

One thing that I wasn't able to find in the hour I was googling around
the groups is battery selection. If I get a system from Lowes, I still
have to provide a battery, and they provide a manufacturer 12volt
battery that is 75 AH for $113. For that price, I can get two 650 AH
batteries and run them in parallel. There's a local tractor supply
store that will sell me the cables for the parallel hookup (that place
has cool stuff).

The battery they sell doesn't look like a car battery at all, even
though its 12 volts and heavy as can be (about 20 lbs?)

My initial assumption is that it should work fine to use a Walmart car
battery (marine deep cycle), but there have been other things that I
have assumed to be so that aren't.

Any thoughts?

you cant protect from everything but installing a undergound 4 inch
schedule 40 pipe is better than a back up pump system. havent known of
gravity to fail yet.

I suggest you leave the existing pump in place, think of the pump as
the back up to the gravity drain.

where does the pump send the water?

another advantage to gravity drain if your in a high radon area the gas
heavier than air should flow towards the open drain location

Although the floor of my basement is higher than the lowest area on my
street, I would have to go pretty far out, 10 houses down, to be able
to do that gravitiy drain cost effectively. Supposedly there should be
a check valve on my system joining the sewer system. If it gets
jammed, my own water could flood my basement.

The discharge is to the side of the house where it runs to the street
(assuming its not absorbed by my front yard first).

Regarding the post about the water pump, I considered it, but I knew
someone whose basement flooded because of his water pump getting jammed
and the water from the pump just fed back into his sump container
somehow. Besides, their flow rates versus cost were not as appealing
as the other options.

Thanks for all the replies.

Water powered pumps out pump battery powered. Batteries only last a few
hours. How will you know when the batteries need replacing, there is no
indicator of low capacity, only dead. Of course you will not do a Load
Test every few years as you need to do, failure to pump or flooding will
likely be your first indication of battery powers drawback. They truely
give false security.

The system I'm looking at comes with a charger, monitor and alarm. I
don't know if it monitors the battery status or not. It wouldnt be a
good system if it didn't.

Since I have a gravity drain as well, I'm more worried about the
primary sump wearing out and stopping. A battery system would run 6
hours continuous with a 75 amp-hour battery. On real bad storms my
sump only runs about once an hour for 15 seconds. That would give me
plenty of time to get a new AC sump from the hardware store.

Do you know of a water powered pump that costs under $300? I couldn't
find any.

Thanks.

wrote:
My initial assumption is that it should work fine to use a Walmart car
battery (marine deep cycle)

A car battery is not a deep-cycle battery. The deep-cycle battery
would be better for this application than a car battery.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:11:44 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Batteries eventualy die and only pump a few hours. City water powered do
not wear or die.


They certainly do wear and die.

I'm currently on my third Zoeller HomeGuard water powered pump, in
3-1/2 years. In spite of religiously doing maintenance on it - cycling
it once a week, etc, they've all sprung massive leaks in the float valve
switch, resulting in water spraying in a 5 to 6 foot radius from the
valve. This is not conducive to keeping a basement dry.

The only reason I've been replacing them is that I'm getting free
replacements under warrenty. But once that stops, I'll be getting
a battery system.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:40:48 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Zoeller and Basepump make them. But look at overall cost and issues. I
have had several name brand Delco, Diehard-gold batteries last 1 year,
some 7 years. You have no way of knowing a batterys condition unless you
periodicaly load and gravity test it. So when will it fail, it will fail
when you need it in years to come. What does it cost to charge it, what
is "Standby" load of your charger, 20 watts? well 20 watts is $1.80 a
month for me, add that up over 10 years and figure it at 30% higher
electric cost. What is battery depreciation cost. Zoeller is quality,
cost has a few factors to think about .


See my previous post. Zoeller water pumps are absolute *crap*.
Even after they changed the design of the float switch so that it
wouldn't get stuck open as easily ( basically, replacing the string
with a pushrod ), the valves *always* start leaking, and so you
get water, at whatever your household pressure is, spraying out
of the valve whenever it trips.