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ameijers
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

I already Googled, but didn't find any recent threads without flamewars-

I need to replace my 46 year old HVAC this year, and have started getting
estimates. ~100,000 BTU, central air, a couple of grand of duct mods to
include the addition so I can get rid of the wall furnace out here. (duct
mods are expensive due to concrete cutting required for access to addition
crawlspace.) Yes, they are measuring house to do do load calcs, etc. So far,
I have been quoted 7200 for Lennox 92+, and around 5500 for Maytag 90+. New
furnace, A-frame, outside compressor, etc. I plan to call a couple others
in next week.

Looking for opinions from people who do installs and repair work- given that
I don't wanna spend a fortune on this 1960 cookie cutter with original
furnace, but I do want decent reliability, what brands should I avoid? On a
vanilla system like this, what brands give best bang for the buck? I won't
be here long enough (est. 7 years) to get a payback just from the gas bills,
so I do want a reputable enough brand to recover some of the cost at time of
sale. IOW, not crap, but I don't need gold plated.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

aem sends....

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SQLit
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?


"ameijers" wrote in message
...
I already Googled, but didn't find any recent threads without flamewars-

I need to replace my 46 year old HVAC this year, and have started getting
estimates. ~100,000 BTU, central air, a couple of grand of duct mods to
include the addition so I can get rid of the wall furnace out here. (duct
mods are expensive due to concrete cutting required for access to addition
crawlspace.) Yes, they are measuring house to do do load calcs, etc. So

far,
I have been quoted 7200 for Lennox 92+, and around 5500 for Maytag 90+.

New
furnace, A-frame, outside compressor, etc. I plan to call a couple others
in next week.

Looking for opinions from people who do installs and repair work- given

that
I don't wanna spend a fortune on this 1960 cookie cutter with original
furnace, but I do want decent reliability, what brands should I avoid? On

a
vanilla system like this, what brands give best bang for the buck? I won't
be here long enough (est. 7 years) to get a payback just from the gas

bills,
so I do want a reputable enough brand to recover some of the cost at time

of
sale. IOW, not crap, but I don't need gold plated.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

aem sends....


the color of the sheet metal is the least of your worries. The INSTALLER
makes or breaks the job.
I sold a home last year and it was the first one that people actually asked
about the SEER on the cooling unit.
http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp
FYI if they try to sell you something under 13 SEER for the cooling they are
ignoring the law as of 1 Jan. 13 is the lowest on new installs.
SEER is not a measurement of heating. Choose the unit based on what you
need most, cooling or heating.


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Jim Redelfs
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

In article , "SQLit"
wrote:

FYI if they try to sell you something under 13 SEER for the cooling they are
ignoring the law as of 1 Jan. 13 is the lowest on new installs.


The law allows for the sale and installation of EXISTING supplies of
lower-SEER units. Only 13-or-higher-SEER units can be MANUFACTURED after
January 1, 2006.

This was obvious when just the other day, as I was installing a phone service
at a brand new (tract) home, I looked at the rating of the condenser unit:
10. All the new (unoccupied or newly-occupied) homes up-and-down the line
sported the SAME, 10 SEER units.

It's reasonable to assume that 10 SEER will be available (and legal for
purchase and installation) for at least several more months: I'm sure the
manufacturers cranked-out as many as they could prior to January 1.
--

JR
  #4   Report Post  
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RobertM
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?


"ameijers" wrote in message
...
I already Googled, but didn't find any recent threads without flamewars-

I need to replace my 46 year old HVAC this year, and have started getting
estimates. ~100,000 BTU, central air, a couple of grand of duct mods to
include the addition so I can get rid of the wall furnace out here. (duct
mods are expensive due to concrete cutting required for access to addition
crawlspace.) Yes, they are measuring house to do do load calcs, etc. So
far,
I have been quoted 7200 for Lennox 92+, and around 5500 for Maytag 90+.
New
furnace, A-frame, outside compressor, etc. I plan to call a couple others
in next week.

Looking for opinions from people who do installs and repair work- given
that
I don't wanna spend a fortune on this 1960 cookie cutter with original
furnace, but I do want decent reliability, what brands should I avoid? On
a
vanilla system like this, what brands give best bang for the buck? I won't
be here long enough (est. 7 years) to get a payback just from the gas
bills,
so I do want a reputable enough brand to recover some of the cost at time
of
sale. IOW, not crap, but I don't need gold plated.

Any advice greatly appreciated.


Just had a Lennox installed, 13 SEER. Very noisy. I shut it off at night
and use the quiet space heaters. I have an addition with concrete slab, paid
a separate contractor $350 to cut two holes through the slab and under for
ductwork.

Bob


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lennox pulse ruined their reputation around here.

Its long gone except for peple nightmare memories and excess noise for
unlucky neighbors



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Aviod Goodman and Janitrol.
For A/C get one with a scroll compressor.

Or get a geothremal system if you can.

  #7   Report Post  
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RobertM
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
Aviod Goodman and Janitrol.
For A/C get one with a scroll compressor.

Or get a geothremal system if you can.


People told me the Goodman was worse than a Lennox. Difficult to imagine
that.

Bob


  #8   Report Post  
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You need to be talking to people in your area...coworkers, family,
friends....etc.............

You need to find a company in your area with a good reputation and let
them do the work.

Brands dont really matter much......its the people doing the work and
standing behind what they sell you.

get several free estimates from companies recommended to you in your
area.......its still a crapshoot.......you got a 50/50 chance of
getting totally hosed by the company you pick but by getting
recommendations in your area you stand a better chance of getting a
decent job done by people who will stand behind their work.

  #9   Report Post  
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CJT
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

RobertM wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

Aviod Goodman and Janitrol.
For A/C get one with a scroll compressor.

Or get a geothremal system if you can.



People told me the Goodman was worse than a Lennox. Difficult to imagine
that.

Bob


.... and probably false, IMHO.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
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  #10   Report Post  
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m Ransley
 
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Consumer Reports recently did a survey of apx 35000 over maybe 8 years
on reliability, one brand came out a clear winner, in last place, it was
Goodman.



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HeatMan
 
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"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article , "SQLit"
wrote:

FYI if they try to sell you something under 13 SEER for the cooling they

are
ignoring the law as of 1 Jan. 13 is the lowest on new installs.


The law allows for the sale and installation of EXISTING supplies of
lower-SEER units. Only 13-or-higher-SEER units can be MANUFACTURED after
January 1, 2006.


Actually it was (about) 28 January 2006. At least one of my suppliers has a
few 10 SEER units available. They won't advertise it.


This was obvious when just the other day, as I was installing a phone

service
at a brand new (tract) home, I looked at the rating of the condenser unit:
10. All the new (unoccupied or newly-occupied) homes up-and-down the line
sported the SAME, 10 SEER units.

It's reasonable to assume that 10 SEER will be available (and legal for
purchase and installation) for at least several more months: I'm sure the
manufacturers cranked-out as many as they could prior to January 1.
--

JR



  #12   Report Post  
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Stretch
 
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

The old Lennox HP26 (13 SEER) was a great machine, very quiet. Their
new 13 SEER, 13HPC, is much louder. You have to go at least 15 SEER
with Lennox now to get a quiet machine. Such a shame...

Stretch

  #13   Report Post  
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2jk 2jk is offline
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...id-100771-.htm


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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

On 12/2/2016 11:44 AM, 2jk wrote:
replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher
tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something
less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.


Sadly, the original poster died 8 years ago. The cheap furnace and
crappy installation caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Please join us
next Tuesday for the anniversary memorial service. Stretch would want
you there.
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 15:19:03 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/2/2016 11:44 AM, 2jk wrote:
replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher
tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something
less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.


Sadly, the original poster died 8 years ago. The cheap furnace and
crappy installation caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Please join us
next Tuesday for the anniversary memorial service. Stretch would want
you there.


Stretch was very fond of gerbils. Each year his friends, also fond of
gerbils, unite at the memorial service with their gerbils so they can
pay tribute, too.


  #16   Report Post  
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...



On 12/2/2016 11:44 AM, 2jk wrote:
replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher
tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something
less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.


Sadly, the original poster died 8 years ago. The cheap furnace and
crappy installation caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Please join us
next Tuesday for the anniversary memorial service. Stretch would want
you there.


Did the gerbils make it?

--
Tekkie
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

Oren posted for all of us...



On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 15:19:03 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/2/2016 11:44 AM, 2jk wrote:
replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher
tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something
less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.


Sadly, the original poster died 8 years ago. The cheap furnace and
crappy installation caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Please join us
next Tuesday for the anniversary memorial service. Stretch would want
you there.


Stretch was very fond of gerbils. Each year his friends, also fond of
gerbils, unite at the memorial service with their gerbils so they can
pay tribute, too.


I didn't see this post so I presume the gerbils are 10-7... Do they have
gerbil coats for winter?

--
Tekkie
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

On 12/3/2016 3:53 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...



On 12/2/2016 11:44 AM, 2jk wrote:
replying to Stretch, 2jk wrote:
Just saw this, your contractor sold you the lower tier "merit" product
offering where as your old HP26 was an "Elite" series unit and a higher
tiered
product offering. You bought their budget special and got something
less than
what you had. Your contractor should have explained to you about a new
construction "builder" model having higher sound levels as it has no
compressor sound blanket over the compressor. You can buy one, have it
installed and the outdoor unit will be much quieter.


Sadly, the original poster died 8 years ago. The cheap furnace and
crappy installation caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Please join us
next Tuesday for the anniversary memorial service. Stretch would want
you there.


Did the gerbils make it?


Yes, had two for lunch today.
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

replying to scott21230, Tim Dale wrote:
Goodman condensing units have the same scroll compressor that all of the other
manufacturers are using. If the equipment is installed correctly, it will
last a long time. I have a friend who has a 26 year old Janitrol on his
house.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...id-100771-.htm


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replying to RobertM, Tim Dale wrote:
The problem with Goodman is that anybody can buy their equipment and there's a
lot of fly by night contractors installing Goodman incorrectly. Check
Craigslist if you don't believe me.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...id-100771-.htm




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replying to m Ransley, Tim Dale wrote:
Fly by night contractors install Goodman more than any other brand because
they can easily buy the equipment for a good price. It's not the equipment,
it's the contractor who installed the equipment.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...id-100771-.htm


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On 2/23/2018 8:44 PM, Tim Dale wrote:
replying to m Ransley, Tim Dale wrote:
Fly by night contractors install Goodman more than any other brand because
they can easily buy the equipment for a good price.Â* It's not the
equipment,
it's the contractor who installed the equipment.



Twelve years later it still is asked. here is a real life situation.
I'm vacationing in Florida for a coupel of weeks. My Son-in-law is the
maintenance manger for two apartment complexes bot about 3 years old,
both have 400 units. One is all Goodman. The other is all Trane.

The Goodman building had tenants call between 8 and 18 times every day
for AC problems. The Trane building had no calls. Now there wre a few
calls that were tenant stupidity, but most were actual failures.

Enjoy your Goodman, but I'll go with Trane or Carrier. I'm looking at
buyina hose here and they use Trane for reliability and lack of customer
call backs.
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replying to Ed Pawlowski, Jay Shaw wrote:
So Ed, can your SIL confirm that both complexes were installed by the same
qualified contractor?
That may be where the problem lies if one (the Goodman) was done by
sub-standard installers.
Don't blame the product until you can't blame the worker.
Oh, and could you maybe re-edit your post to clean up all the typos? Makes it
hard to read. Thx.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...id-100771-.htm


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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

On 2/24/2019 5:14 PM, Jay Shaw wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Jay Shaw wrote:
So Ed, can your SIL confirm that both complexes were installed by the same
qualified contractor?
That may be where the problem lies if one (the Goodman) was done by
sub-standard installers.
Don't blame the product until you can't blame the worker.
Oh, and could you maybe re-edit your post to clean up all the typos?
Makes it
hard to read. Thx.

No idea about the installers but, . . .

Installers can screw up air flow, sensor placement and the like that
affect performance. Installers have no control over defective fan
motors.switches, relays, and a bunch of other items in a package the
installer never touches.
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Default Furnace brands to avoid?

On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 18:14:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/24/2019 5:14 PM, Jay Shaw wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Jay Shaw wrote:
So Ed, can your SIL confirm that both complexes were installed by the same
qualified contractor?
That may be where the problem lies if one (the Goodman) was done by
sub-standard installers.
Don't blame the product until you can't blame the worker.
Oh, and could you maybe re-edit your post to clean up all the typos?
Makes it
hard to read. Thx.

No idea about the installers but, . . .

Installers can screw up air flow, sensor placement and the like that
affect performance. Installers have no control over defective fan
motors.switches, relays, and a bunch of other items in a package the
installer never touches.

The best furnace in your area will possibly be different than in
mine. Buy the brand with the best support in your area, from the best
dealer/installer in your area. It won't be the cheapest up front - but
could well be the cheapest in the long term. My brother got a "lemon"
from a good dealer and 4 years later got every cent back against the
purchace of a new furnace of a different brand. The "lemon" was a
Lennox Pulse that failed 3 times in 4 years.


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Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 18:14:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/24/2019 5:14 PM, Jay Shaw wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Jay Shaw wrote:
So Ed, can your SIL confirm that both complexes were installed by the same
qualified contractor?
That may be where the problem lies if one (the Goodman) was done by
sub-standard installers.
Don't blame the product until you can't blame the worker.
Oh, and could you maybe re-edit your post to clean up all the typos?
Makes it
hard to read. Thx.

No idea about the installers but, . . .

Installers can screw up air flow, sensor placement and the like that
affect performance. Installers have no control over defective fan
motors.switches, relays, and a bunch of other items in a package the
installer never touches.

The best furnace in your area will possibly be different than in
mine. Buy the brand with the best support in your area, from the best
dealer/installer in your area. It won't be the cheapest up front - but
could well be the cheapest in the long term. My brother got a "lemon"
from a good dealer and 4 years later got every cent back against the
purchace of a new furnace of a different brand. The "lemon" was a
Lennox Pulse that failed 3 times in 4 years.


Is the Lennox motto: You can buy better, but you can not pay more? Something
to that affect. Thanks Dave...

--
Tekkie
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On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 2:41:35 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 18:14:38 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/24/2019 5:14 PM, Jay Shaw wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Jay Shaw wrote:
So Ed, can your SIL confirm that both complexes were installed by the same
qualified contractor?
That may be where the problem lies if one (the Goodman) was done by
sub-standard installers.
Don't blame the product until you can't blame the worker.
Oh, and could you maybe re-edit your post to clean up all the typos?
Makes it
hard to read. Thx.

No idea about the installers but, . . .

Installers can screw up air flow, sensor placement and the like that
affect performance. Installers have no control over defective fan
motors.switches, relays, and a bunch of other items in a package the
installer never touches.

The best furnace in your area will possibly be different than in
mine. Buy the brand with the best support in your area, from the best
dealer/installer in your area. It won't be the cheapest up front - but
could well be the cheapest in the long term. My brother got a "lemon"
from a good dealer and 4 years later got every cent back against the
purchace of a new furnace of a different brand. The "lemon" was a
Lennox Pulse that failed 3 times in 4 years.


Is the Lennox motto: You can buy better, but you can not pay more? Something
to that affect. Thanks Dave...

--
Tekkie


When I was shopping 8 years ago, I looked at the reviews for new furnace
and AC. At the time, Rheem and Ruud were rated just as reliable as perceived
name brands, like Carrier. I had a Ruud that had gone 25 years, only
needing a hard-start kit for the compressor. Rheem and Ruud are made by
the same company. I went with a new Rheem. So far, only one problem,
that was the ECM motor for the condenser fan went kaput. A new one would
have been $350, so I replaced it with a regular one for $90. It's been good
to me, but on the other hand, if you can't DIY and don't know that you
can substitute a cheap motor for the ECM, one service call for that could
have been $750+ for some poor schmuck. And they would have wound up with
another ECM with the electronics to sit outside and go bad again. But I
wouldn't be surprised that if I spend twice as much for a Carrier or similar
name system, the results would be the same. Except maybe it's harder or
impossible to put a generic motor into one of those.


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replying to Ed Pawlowski, Worked on a few... wrote:
Preventive maintenance may not be equally carried out on the head to head
property comparison and that would have nothing to do with the installers as
well. Maintenance and quality thereof go a very long way in minimizing
problems. Shoddy maintenance or wait til someone complains maintenance also go
a very, very long way to the other end of the spectrum.

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