Hi all,
I wondering if anyone has any information on venting a furnace to an
exterior wall and removing the existing chimney. The house is a 1920's
house and I'd like to remove the chimney to add a bathroom. Also, any
idea on the cost associated for a job like this would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.

Van

wrote in message
oups.com...

I wondering if anyone has any information on venting a furnace to an
exterior wall and removing the existing chimney. The house is a 1920's
house and I'd like to remove the chimney to add a bathroom. Also, any

Start at the city hall building permits office.
For reasons of fire safety, you probably need
a permit to alter any existing furnace chimney.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

A chimney has a draft that draws out burnt gas, a non powervent furnace
or regular furnace needs the draw of a chimney. Now would be a good time
to consider a 94% high efficiency unit that can vent with Pvc, but then
what about your water heater, where does it vent.

replace the furnace and hot water tank with the direct vent 90+ types.

this will elminate the need for the chimney and save lots of energy

remember the existing fornace and hot water tank flues exhaust heated
air from your home 24 / 7

On 16 Mar 2006 13:48:29 -0800, wrote:

Hi all,
I wondering if anyone has any information on venting a furnace to an
exterior wall and removing the existing chimney. The house is a 1920's
house and I'd like to remove the chimney to add a bathroom. Also, any
idea on the cost associated for a job like this would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.

When I took geometry in the 9th grade, the book had a question that
involved calculating the height of a chimney by using congruent
triangles, I believe, probably by using the shadow of the chimney to
determine the triangles.

It was a story question and started off by saying that a tall chimney
drew better.

Norman asked Why.

The teacher (whose name I shall not give) got perturbed, and
blustered, and didn't answer him, but a week or two later he brought
in a book and made Norman stand at the front of the room and read it.
It said that taller chimneys drew better, but it still didn't say
why!!! Obviously the teacher didn't know either.

I've got my guess, but I don't know for sure either.

But they do. And I'm sure you can't vent the furnace you have now
through an outside wall, unless maybe you built another chimney
outside that wall, and even then the greater distance might mean that
it didnt' work as well. Maybe if you made it taller it would work as
well. I'm sure Norman knows all about this by now.

Van

Updating the furnace (as suggested) needs to be looked at carefully
because payback can take a long time. Of course, if the furnace will
need replacing in the next few/5 years, replacing can make sense.

My oil-fired boiler has a powervent and vents out the wall, which if it
meets code in your area is an option. What I don't like about it, is
the noise (maybe a newer one would be quiter than mine), and the fumes
do have some smell, and are now distributed near ground level.

You could have a new flue put in on the exterior that takes up a lot
less space than the chimney.

If you go forwards with this, you might be able to save a fair bit of
money removing the chimney yourself, or contracting that out as a
seperate job (after the furnace is plumbed to a different exhaust!).

Dave

wrote:
replace the furnace and hot water tank with the direct vent 90+ types.

this will elminate the need for the chimney and save lots of energy

remember the existing fornace and hot water tank flues exhaust heated
air from your home 24 / 7


How much they will save depends entirely on what they have now. To
replace an existing 80% furnace and hot water heater that have a lot of
life left to try to save money usually isn't going to be cost
effective. And going from 80 to 90 hardly qualifies as lots in my
book. Sure, if they need a new furnace, then I would go with the 90,
but if they just want to remove a chimney for asthetics, this is all
gettting very expensive.

Say he is lucky and has an 80% unit, which without proper maintenance
and its actual design might be 70-75%. A modern 94.5% unit vs an 80% is
a % difference in operating savings of 18% not 14.5%. Factor 18%
savings with the true rapid increases in fuel costs that we have had and
will continue to see and his now 18% savings becomes greater with every
increase in fuel. Add the possibility of his being oversized now and
that a properly sized unit will increase efficiency even more by running
at the units peak design longer. Add to this that a VSDC blower will
easily cut 10-20% off his electric bill winter and summer. Now look at
water heaters, Ng tanks loose efficieny every year due to scale, he has
options of a higher efficiency tank, or the highest efficency Ng
tankless, whick have Energy Factor ratings of 18-25% more than Ng tank.
New units could if picked right easily save him 22% more in utilities.
In those numbers there is payback, a good investment. It will also raise
his houses resale value. Keeping old equipment with present and future
utility price projections easily becomes penny foolish when all factors
are considered.

- mm wrote:

It was a story question and started off by saying that a tall chimney
drew better.

Norman asked Why.

I've got my guess, but I don't know for sure either.

Insufficient chimney height
(from http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hodraft.htm)

Chimneys usually draw at least a small amount of air, even when there is no
fire below: this phenomenon is called ambient updraft. Ambient chimney
draft occurs because the top of the flue extends upward several feet, into
a lower density atmosphere than exists at the bottom. Thus, air is drawn up
the chimney in much the same way as liquid is drawn up a soda straw when
you reduce the air density inside your mouth.

Most wood stove manufacturers require a minimum stack height (stovepipe and
chimney) of at least 16 feet. Code requires that all woodstove and wood
fireplace chimneys must extend at least two feet above any part of the roof
within ten feet. Given that topographical and atmospheric conditions can
vary considerably from house to house, it is possible for a chimney to
comply with these minimum specifications but still fail to extend upward
into air of low-enough density to establish ambient updraft. It is not
uncommon for fireplaces and stoves in houses that are surrounded by hills
or trees, for example, or that are located in the high-density air that
often surrounds large bodies of water, to need more chimney height than the
minimum required by code.

m Ransley wrote:
Say he is lucky and has an 80% unit, which without proper maintenance
and its actual design might be 70-75%. A modern 94.5% unit vs an 80% is
a % difference in operating savings of 18% not 14.5%.

How are you calculating this? By my calcs, going from an 80%
efficiency unit to an 94.5% unit will result in saving 15.4% on energy
bills, not 18%. So if his heating bill is $1300 for a season, it would
be a savings of $200/yr. That is completely wiped out by the time
cost of money, which is to say if he just puts the $4500 he could spend
on a new furnace/air in the bank at only 4.5%, he would earn $202 every
year. If he has to finance it, it gets a lot worse. The savings on
the newer motor would certainly contribute some to this as well, but
the biggest other impact would probably be the savings in central air
cost, assuming he has that and is replacing a much older, less
efficient unit.

I agree that at some point, in can make sense to upgrade. But if the
furnace is 80% and still working fine, I seriously doubt you will come
out ahead financially, unless you live some place very cold where you
will use a lot of energy, etc. And don't forget to factor in that to
repair one of these new systems can be very expensive. Replacing that
variable speed DC motor or control board is gonna cost a lot more than
a simple $100 motor for the furnace he has now.



Factor 18%
savings with the true rapid increases in fuel costs that we have had and
will continue to see and his now 18% savings becomes greater with every
increase in fuel. Add the possibility of his being oversized now and
that a properly sized unit will increase efficiency even more by running
at the units peak design longer. Add to this that a VSDC blower will
easily cut 10-20% off his electric bill winter and summer. Now look at
water heaters, Ng tanks loose efficieny every year due to scale, he has
options of a higher efficiency tank, or the highest efficency Ng
tankless, whick have Energy Factor ratings of 18-25% more than Ng tank.
New units could if picked right easily save him 22% more in utilities.
In those numbers there is payback, a good investment. It will also raise
his houses resale value. Keeping old equipment with present and future
utility price projections easily becomes penny foolish when all factors
are considered.

The difference of % efficiency gained inbetween two units is calclated
by the difference in percentage of the 2 units. Or 80% is 18% different
than 94.5%. I had a hard time accepting this till I asked Lennox. So
people upgrading to more efficient units really achieve higher percent
savings then they usualy realise. Repairs are always an issue, 10 year
warrantys are what should always be obtained especialy with VSDC
blowers. My numbers show a 6 year payback on a 500$ replacement blower
for me, but that is todays Kwh cost, soon I am going up 15-20%. With a
10 yr warranty I am ahead no matter what happens. Another point is how
many factor in past Ng price increases to reflect future costs into
their payback, there again payback is quicker with a higher efficiency
unit.

m Ransley wrote:
The difference of % efficiency gained inbetween two units is calclated
by the difference in percentage of the 2 units. Or 80% is 18% different
than 94.5%. I had a hard time accepting this till I asked Lennox.

Well, Lennox doesn't know what they are talking about. Let's say you
spent $100 on natural gas. At 80% efficiency, that produced $80 worth
of heat, the other $20 was wasted. To produce the exact same $80
worth of heat with a 94.5% furnace requires 80/.945, or $84.6 worth of
natural gas. $84.6 X .945= $80. So, instead of spending $100 for
gas, you spend $84.6, which is 15.4% less. It's pretty simple and
straighforward.




So
people upgrading to more efficient units really achieve higher percent
savings then they usualy realise. Repairs are always an issue, 10 year
warrantys are what should always be obtained especialy with VSDC
blowers. My numbers show a 6 year payback on a 500$ replacement blower
for me, but that is todays Kwh cost, soon I am going up 15-20%. With a
10 yr warranty I am ahead no matter what happens. Another point is how
many factor in past Ng price increases to reflect future costs into
their payback, there again payback is quicker with a higher efficiency
unit.

I wonder just what the energy savings in $$ is for elminating the
chiney flues going with power direct vent is?

2 things theres the cost of the energy used to heat the air being
constantly exhausted out the chimney

Theres also the cost of heating the replacement air being sucked
indoors to make up the air going up the chimney.

bpth of these must amount to something, on a cold day my chimneys have
a good draft even with the furnace or hot water tank disconnected. I
noticed that one day inspecting my chimneys.

Just think its like leaving a window open 24 / 7

m Ransley wrote:
Trader, I just posted the question of % difference at "The Wall" a
place of heating pros, I respect your point but believe in what I said
for the present. Stop by there it should be interesting.


Here's another way of looking at it. You put $100 of gas in, with 80%
efficiency, you get $80 worth of useful heat out. According to
Lennox, by going from 80 to 94.5, you save (94.5-80)/80, or 18.1% in
fuel cost. If that's true, then we can buy 18.1% less fuel, which is
$81.90. Take $81.90 and put it into the 94.5 furnace and we get
81.9x.945, or $77.40 worth of heat out, which is less than the original
80.

However, if you take 15.4% off the $100, you get $84.6 and put that
through 94.5, you get 94.5*84.6, which is $80

What Lennox is doing is just taking the differences in percent
efficiencies, which is mathematically incorrect. But it does give a
higher figure, which I'm sure they like

replying to vandhna, Iggy wrote:
Talk with your HVAC guy or company. Direct Vents or Chimney-less setups are
great, but they must meet strict requirements. Like, Direct Vents must be, at
least, 3-feet from any operable opening and can't be any closer than 1-foot to
any eave (see image). Chimney-less setups that use PVC pipes strapped to the
building exterior or buried in the walls become the chimney, but need to meet
chimney roof exit requirements and the intake must be goose-necked away from
the adjoining exhaust pipe...can be a little ugly or odd looking.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/a6

Iggy m
Mon, 07 Aug 2017 02:44:02 GMT
in alt.home.repair, wrote:

replying to vandhna, Iggy wrote:
Talk with your HVAC guy or company. Direct Vents or Chimney-less
setups are great, but they must meet strict requirements. Like,
Direct Vents must be, at least, 3-feet from any operable opening
and can't be any closer than 1-foot to any eave (see image).
Chimney-less setups that use PVC pipes strapped to the building
exterior or buried in the walls become the chimney, but need to
meet chimney roof exit requirements and the intake must be
goose-necked away from the adjoining exhaust pipe...can be a
little ugly or odd looking. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/a6

Thanks for the information.


--
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
http://picpaste.com/m9WZ0KrA.jpg - David and Trisha
http://picpaste.com/U5np7XvN.jpg - How to contact David and Trisha


Are you still here? The message is over. Shoo! Go away!

replying to Diesel, Iggy wrote:
I'm glad you found it helpful. I really don't know why the information was
omitted in the earlier posts, furnace choice is vital but not burning the
place down or killing people with carbon monoxide are just as important.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:14:12 AM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:

replying to Diesel, Iggy wrote:

I'm glad you found it helpful. I really don't know why the information was
omitted in the earlier posts, furnace choice is vital but not burning the
place down or killing people with carbon monoxide are just as important.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm


Twit, information was not omitted in earlier posts. You're replying
to an ELEVEN YEAR OLD thread. My hope is the dummies from HomeMoaners
will someday learn to read, but I have my doubts.

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 1:33:59 PM UTC-4, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:14:12 AM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:

replying to Diesel, Iggy wrote:

I'm glad you found it helpful. I really don't know why the information was
omitted in the earlier posts, furnace choice is vital but not burning the
place down or killing people with carbon monoxide are just as important.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm


Twit, information was not omitted in earlier posts. You're replying
to an ELEVEN YEAR OLD thread. My hope is the dummies from HomeMoaners
will someday learn to read, but I have my doubts.

+1

IDK what shows up there at HomeMoanersHub, but I see a long thread
where people discussed building permits, code, etc. in this eleven
year old thread. And it didn't sound like that original OP was
about to go DIY either. And even if he did, the relevant basic
safety and code issues are right in the install instructions for
the direct vent furnace.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 10:33:49 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

Twit, information was not omitted in earlier posts. You're replying
to an ELEVEN YEAR OLD thread. My hope is the dummies from HomeMoaners
will someday learn to read, but I have my doubts.

Imagine that!
--
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."
-- Lily Tomlin

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Wow! Why are you here? You're very wrong and most especially will most
definitely be completely wrong in your advice in the quite near future,
according to your "logic". Sorry but, newsflash, Home Stuff doesn't change for
decades and the people who originally answered weren't wrong nor outdated nor
worthless (except trader_4). Please reconsider your stance, mission and rotten
attitude.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 9:44:06 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Wow! Why are you here? You're very wrong and most especially will most
definitely be completely wrong in your advice in the quite near future,
according to your "logic". Sorry but, newsflash, Home Stuff doesn't change for
decades and the people who originally answered weren't wrong nor outdated nor
worthless (except trader_4). Please reconsider your stance, mission and rotten
attitude.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm

Please tell us exactly how Joan or I are wrong. And of course the
others were not outdated, because they replied 11 years ago.
Code issues, building permits were discussed in the thread 11 years ago.
The very first reply mentioned exactly that. You waltz in, reply 11 years later, claim that only you thought of any such issues. What nerve.
"Talk with your HVAC guy or company" Wow! Who would have thought of that?
But it's not surprising coming from HomeMoanersHub.

replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Ah, Mr. or Ms. LookingForAFightAndAlwaysLosing themself. I ain't waltzing, I
simply included what was excluded. I don't know why no-one gave out any such
project killing or clearing information. But now, *finally*, when someone else
searches the web for the same topic they'll have a basic understanding of the
obstacles.
-
Joan says replying to or completing an incomplete old thread is valueless and
that good and proper information is stupid if it's old. And you, detracted
from the answers by pointlessly whining on about the nonsense of efficiencies.
Sorry but, an 80% unit used to be half the cost of a super-high efficiency
unit. Thousands of dollars may not matter to you, but to others it does. And
no, the efficiency won't pay for itself in most of the world and you'd only
break-even upon a decade of use.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 10:14:05 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:

Joan says replying to or completing an incomplete old thread is valueless and
that good and proper information is stupid if it's old. And you, detracted
from the answers by pointlessly whining on about the nonsense of efficiencies.
Sorry but, an 80% unit used to be half the cost of a super-high efficiency
unit. Thousands of dollars may not matter to you, but to others it does. And
no, the efficiency won't pay for itself in most of the world and you'd only
break-even upon a decade of use.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm


Damn, not only are you dumb as a box of rocks your ignorant
butt can't read either. But that was evident when you drug
up an ELEVEN YEAR OLD thread to reply to it as if it were
posted just last week.

I guess the name 'Iggy' is short for IGNORANT. Please stop
embarrassing yourself.

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:55:17 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I think we're wasting our time as Iggy-norant is on a tangent
and can't see the forest for the trees. It seems to be a
common anomaly with posters from HomeMoaners Hubcap.

On 08/07/2017 11:14 PM, Iggy wrote:
Sorry but, an 80% unit used to be half the cost of a super-high
efficiency
unit. Thousands of dollars may not matter to you, but to others it
does. And
no, the efficiency won't pay for itself in most of the world and you'd
only
break-even upon a decade of use.

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm



High-efficiency furnaces are notoriously unreliable after they're about
8 years old. Any money you save on fuel the first 8 years, you'll spend
on repairs the second.

After several no-heat breakdowns (always happened at the worst possible
times), I finally put in 25,000 BTU of backup electric baseboard heat.

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
No, I get it, you're a bigmouth bully *imagining* you're doing anything
useful...as I kindly asked and you still didn't answer. HOH has this as a
Headline Banner question, along with many other old questions. You think,
*somehow*, that if someone didn't have a direct-vent or chimney-less heater
until now is an idiot and doesn't deserve anything but old and incomplete
information.
-
----- What's the harm in improving *any* question's answer?
-
----- Why do you care who answers what, when it's not detrimental?
-
----- Who do you think you are *and* what right do you think you have to bully
and demean anyone?
-
----- Isn't this supposed to be some sort of Wiki of old and properly
addressed questions, so people don't have to keep asking the same stuff?
-
----- What's the point in answering *anything*, if "people" like you will just
call it the days of ignorance next year?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ide-98755-.htm

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 9:14:10 AM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
No, I get it, you're a bigmouth bully *imagining* you're doing anything
useful...as I kindly asked and you still didn't answer. HOH has this as a
Headline Banner question, along with many other old questions.


Wow, they do? Really? HomeMoanersHub? Who the hell cares? From
what I have seen, all they are is a portal that tries to make it look
like they are behind AHR which is really a usenet newsgroup. They put
up a decade old question, from a thread that was well discussed and answered
and someone over there jumps on it like it was asked today. It's
probably a bot doing it to increase traffic in an attempt to make the website
commercial and of some value to them.




You think,
*somehow*, that if someone didn't have a direct-vent or chimney-less heater
until now is an idiot and doesn't deserve anything but old and incomplete
information.
-

The only people who seem to stumble on these old threads and start them
all over again are a few people from HomeMoanersHub. The rest of us
know they are old, answered, like this one. And nothing much has
changed in the way of venting furnaces in the intervening 10 years.
The very first reply told the OP about building permits and following
code, something you seem to think only you brought here. They told him
that while he was here and asked it. He's long gone. IT's not even
clear he ever even cared about the answer. Did you notice that he made
one post, never another in the thread?




----- What's the harm in improving *any* question's answer?
-
----- Why do you care who answers what, when it's not detrimental?

It sure looks stupid when you just show up 10 years later, addressing
a question as if it's current. And it's insulting when you then claim
that you suddenly brought up something new, when the very first reply
10 years ago brought up codes, building permits. "Talk to your HVAC
guy, there are code issues" Wow, what new insight!




-
----- Who do you think you are *and* what right do you think you have to bully
and demean anyone?
-
----- Isn't this supposed to be some sort of Wiki of old and properly
addressed questions, so people don't have to keep asking the same stuff?

Not really. It's a discussion newsgroup. You may find an old threads with
a search engine, if you're lucky. But it's definitely not a Wiki type
reference.


-
----- What's the point in answering *anything*, if "people" like you will just
call it the days of ignorance next year?


To answer the person's question that was just asked. In this case, that
was done 10 years ago. No one is asking it now. It's likely no one will
find it again who needs that question answered currently. But someone from
HomeMoanersHub will probably revive the whole thing again 10 years from
now. Enjoy!

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 10:22:41 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 9:14:10 AM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
No, I get it, you're a bigmouth bully *imagining* you're doing anything
useful...as I kindly asked and you still didn't answer. HOH has this as a
Headline Banner question, along with many other old questions.


Wow, they do? Really? HomeMoanersHub? Who the hell cares? From
what I have seen, all they are is a portal that tries to make it look
like they are behind AHR which is really a usenet newsgroup. They put
up a decade old question, from a thread that was well discussed and answered
and someone over there jumps on it like it was asked today. It's
probably a bot doing it to increase traffic in an attempt to make the website
commercial and of some value to them.

B I N G O!!!!!!!!!

Iggy-norant is just too stupid to realize this.

You think,
*somehow*, that if someone didn't have a direct-vent or chimney-less heater
until now is an idiot and doesn't deserve anything but old and incomplete
information.
-

The only people who seem to stumble on these old threads and start them
all over again are a few people from HomeMoanersHub. The rest of us
know they are old, answered, like this one. And nothing much has
changed in the way of venting furnaces in the intervening 10 years.
The very first reply told the OP about building permits and following
code, something you seem to think only you brought here. They told him
that while he was here and asked it. He's long gone. IT's not even
clear he ever even cared about the answer. Did you notice that he made
one post, never another in the thread?

I don't know why those dumbasses on HomeMoanersHub can't read,
the date is _right there staring them in the face._ I know this
for a fact as I went there to see what is so great about that site
that it draws in the retards. They all seem to have blinders on
when it comes to reading the date of the original post; that's
why we see 7, 10, 15+ year old threads dug up from the past with
these Mensa rejects answering them like they were just posted.

----- What's the harm in improving *any* question's answer?
-
----- Why do you care who answers what, when it's not detrimental?

It sure looks stupid when you just show up 10 years later, addressing
a question as if it's current. And it's insulting when you then claim
that you suddenly brought up something new, when the very first reply
10 years ago brought up codes, building permits. "Talk to your HVAC
guy, there are code issues" Wow, what new insight!

YES! YES! YES!
-
----- Who do you think you are *and* what right do you think you have to
bully and demean anyone?
-
----- Isn't this supposed to be some sort of Wiki of old and properly
addressed questions, so people don't have to keep asking the same stuff?

Not really. It's a discussion newsgroup. You may find an old threads with
a search engine, if you're lucky. But it's definitely not a Wiki type
reference.

You explained it perfectly, Trader.
-
----- What's the point in answering *anything*, if "people" like you will
just call it the days of ignorance next year?


To answer the person's question that was just asked. In this case, that
was done 10 years ago. No one is asking it now. It's likely no one will
find it again who needs that question answered currently. But someone from
HomeMoanersHub will probably revive the whole thing again 10 years from
now. Enjoy!

Again, a perfect explanation but I think it's all for naught. They'll
continue to visit that stupid site as if it's got all the latest and
greatest information. Then they'll comment only to be told the question
was posted and answered y-e-a-r-s ago. But the huffiness will continue
when that has been pointed out to them.

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 12:00:54 PM UTC-5, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

Trimed Da Phat

Again, a perfect explanation but I think it's all for naught. They'll
continue to visit that stupid site as if it's got all the latest and
greatest information. Then they'll comment only to be told the question
was posted and answered y-e-a-r-s ago. But the huffiness will continue
when that has been pointed out to them.

Not everyone is as experienced an Internet user as you are Joan. I don't look down on Home Owners's Hub users as stupid, they've simply never hear of Usenet and have no fraking clue what newsgroups are. I do like to play with them because of their ignorance and explain the use of gerbils for home repair and maintenance. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Homey Monster

replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Just ridiculous nonsense! *A pair of nothings* that go out of their way to
crawl up someone's ass and try ever so unbelievably to call *them* the
asshole. Yeah, real original...you're not putrid disgusting scumbag filth
*trolls*, because you say so.

"Wah, Wah, Wah, you screwed up my anal retention!"

He said check codes! He said check codes! He said check codes! Means I'm not
telling you about clearances, but I mean there's clearances that you must know
about. So go crawl up the asses of the "morons" that repeatedly repeated his
abject vagueness and didn't do what I finally did.

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On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 4:14:11 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Just ridiculous nonsense! *A pair of nothings* that go out of their way to
crawl up someone's ass and try ever so unbelievably to call *them* the
asshole. Yeah, real original...you're not putrid disgusting scumbag filth
*trolls*, because you say so.

"Wah, Wah, Wah, you screwed up my anal retention!"

He said check codes! He said check codes! He said check codes! Means I'm not
telling you about clearances, but I mean there's clearances that you must know
about. So go crawl up the asses of the "morons" that repeatedly repeated his
abject vagueness and didn't do what I finally did.


The person asking the question was basically clueless and I doubt
your giving him some partial specs as to your wild guesses at
the venting requirements
will do much to solve his problem, especially 10 years later. Even you
said "talk to your HVAC guy". Duh! And are you SURE about that 3 ft
min distance to an opening? It's 3ft regardless of the size of the
furnace? Regardless of whether it's direct vent or not? But, heh,
I'm not the one telling him what the code is for his specific unknown
equipment and unknown location are, you are. I simply said that
others here 10 years ago told him that
codes and building permits typically apply. But since you're calling
others moron now, I'll point out to you that you're wrong, it's not
3 ft for any size furnace, to an opening, it can be as little as 1 ft clearance
from a vent to an opening according to the fuel gas code for the USA,
which most jurisdictions follow. Who's the moron that's misleading people
now?

All the below was stated to the poster:


"Start at the city hall building permits office.
For reasons of fire safety, you probably need
a permit to alter any existing furnace chimney."

"First, your furnace and hot water heater need to be specifically
designed for direct venting. As mentioned in a post above it might be
a good time to consider two new high efficiently units (furnace and hot
water heater).

Second, you need to be careful as to where the vent exits the house.
There are limits as to how close the vent can be to any upstairs
windows. Think of the vent gases as washing up the side of the house.
You cannot have the vented gasses draft back into the house thru
windows above the vent point. You many need to relocate the two new
units to another part of the basement to accommodate this very
important design criterion."


That was all there from 10 years ago. It all pointed the OP in the
right direction. Your 3 ft rule isn't correct. Wanna play some more?
Or quit while you're behind?

replying to trader4, Jake wrote:
It's far more than a matter of energy savings. I agree that it makes no sense
to replace a working unit in good condition, under any circumstances. But
I've just had - that's "had" - to have a propane boiler condenser installed,
because the oil-fed boiler cracked, and there seemed to be no one, anywhere,
who could figure out how to get a new oil boiler into the "basement," nor an
oil tank. I loathe this system, for a two-page list of reasons, not the least
of which is the substantial amount of attention one has to pay to learning all
aspects of how these systems work, including venting, freezing around flues,
danger of explosion, CO, CO2... the danger of running out of propane - that's
danger - not just an inconvenience. If I had the money - which I don't
because it all went into this replacement, and it's snowing these days - I
would have it ripped out and shredded, and I'd have the side of the house
removed if necessary to stay with oil. I'm also having eye irritation in one
section of this old small house, and I have to wonder about just what has been
introduced, and, believe me, it's not fabulous warm, dry heat, either.


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replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Jake wrote:
Rude. And a good post is a good post whether one day, or 11 year's old.


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On 11/16/2017 9:14 PM, Jake wrote:
replying to trader4, Jake wrote:
It's far more than a matter of energy savings.Â* I agree that it makes
no sense
to replace a working unit in good condition, under any circumstances.Â*
But
I've just had - that's "had" - to have a propane boiler condenser
installed,
because the oil-fed boiler cracked, and there seemed to be no one,
anywhere,
who could figure out how to get a new oil boiler into the "basement,"
nor an
oil tank.Â* I loathe this system, for a two-page list of reasons, not
the least
of which is the substantial amount of attention one has to pay to
learning all
aspects of how these systems work, including venting, freezing around
flues,
danger of explosion, CO, CO2... the danger of running out of propane -
that's
danger - not just an inconvenience.Â* If I had the money - which I don't
because it all went into this replacement, and it's snowing these days
- I
would have it ripped out and shredded, and I'd have the side of the house
removed if necessary to stay with oil.Â* I'm also having eye irritation
in one
section of this old small house, and I have to wonder about just what
has been
introduced, and, believe me, it's not fabulous warm, dry heat, either.


Â* Oh quit your bitching and install a wood burning stove . Buy a
chainsaw and a splitter and cut your own fuel . You get both a warm dry
heatÂ* and the added benefit of better health . Cuttin' and splittin'
firewood is very good exercise !

Â* --

Â* Snag

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 10:14:09 PM UTC-5, Jake wrote:
replying to trader4, Jake wrote:
It's far more than a matter of energy savings. I agree that it makes no sense
to replace a working unit in good condition, under any circumstances. But
I've just had - that's "had" - to have a propane boiler condenser installed,
because the oil-fed boiler cracked, and there seemed to be no one, anywhere,
who could figure out how to get a new oil boiler into the "basement," nor an
oil tank. I loathe this system, for a two-page list of reasons, not the least
of which is the substantial amount of attention one has to pay to learning all
aspects of how these systems work, including venting, freezing around flues,
danger of explosion, CO, CO2... the danger of running out of propane - that's
danger - not just an inconvenience. If I had the money - which I don't
because it all went into this replacement, and it's snowing these days - I
would have it ripped out and shredded, and I'd have the side of the house
removed if necessary to stay with oil. I'm also having eye irritation in one
section of this old small house, and I have to wonder about just what has been
introduced, and, believe me, it's not fabulous warm, dry heat, either.




If you have a basement with limited access so that a new oil tank and oil
boiler can't be brought in, I understand that. The rest of the stuff, ie
CO, explosions regarding direct vent is just FUD. There are tens of millions
operating and I haven't heard of any more incidents of these events than
occur with chimney vented. In fact, I haven't heard of a CO death from
a direct vent so far, but I have heard of plenty of them with old direct
vent furnaces that they replaced. I have a direct vent nat gas furnace,
it's cut my heating bills by more than half and no explosions or CO here.

replying to mm, BeautifulSinkhole wrote:
Terrible answer

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