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#1
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Water Heater Install Question
I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) it
sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and neither am I... Any Thoughts? Craig |
#2
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Water Heater Install Question
Craig Robison wrote:
I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) it sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and neither am I... Any Thoughts? Craig Hi, I always had two gas heater in series. But have no experience with gas-electric combo. I'd think they'll have different recovery rate. Tony |
#3
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Water Heater Install Question
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message news:OfhCf.453788$ki.271597@pd7tw2no... Craig Robison wrote: I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) it sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and neither am I... Any Thoughts? Craig Hi, I always had two gas heater in series. But have no experience with gas-electric combo. I'd think they'll have different recovery rate. Tony I agree, I suspect that the 3800 watt, single element, el-cheapo electric water heater recovers pretty slow. Compared to the 30K BTU NG heater... another reason I put them in series. Craig |
#4
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Water Heater Install Question
you will next wind up with a 75 gallon tank if you can get it thru your
doorways like ours we run at 150F, oops you're in the attic. recheck your 40 gallon gas hot water tank for replacement of the DIP TUBE if you have rapid temperature drop on the output of your gas hot water tank. i would use a drain pan and drain pipe under each tank with a battery water alarm [$10 home depot] in each pan. see also for dip tube and other repairs: http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag...hot-water.html |
#6
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Water Heater Install Question
The only time you should pipe two water heaters in parallel, is when they
are exactly the same capacity and flow rate. I think you'll find that the electric water heater is going to cost you a lot more to operate. I also think that if you turn off the gas supply to the gas water heater, you're going to be running out of hot water. Water heaters are rated by their 'recovery rate', or how fast they can raise the temperature of the water. This is typically a rise of 90 degrees. The recovery rate of an electric water heater depends on the wattage of the heating elements. A typical electric water heater with two 4500-watt heating elements takes about two hours to heat 40 gallons of water. A typical 40 gallon gas water heater takes about one hour to heat 41 gallons of water. "Craig Robison" wrote in message . .. I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) it sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and neither am I... Any Thoughts? Craig |
#7
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Water Heater Install Question
Craig Robison wrote:
I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) .. I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one .. I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. ... I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends .. My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? .. Any Thoughts? Craig You did hook it up the right way. I might have put the temp of the gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions. Putting then in parallel would have been wrong. I suggest that when the time comes that you are ready to address this problem, that you consider a more conventional solution. In the long run a single larger high recovery heater is going to cost you less and require less maintenance than your current setup. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#8
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Water Heater Install Question
" You did hook it up the right way. I might have put the temp of the
gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions. Putting then in parallel would have been wrong. I suggest that when the time comes that you are ready to address this problem, that you consider a more conventional solution. In the long run a single larger high recovery heater is going to cost you less and require less maintenance than your current setup. -- Joseph Meehan " I second that advice. Two seperate small water heaters are going to have considerably more heat loss that one larger unit, leading to higher operating costs. How much did you manage to save by going with a second smaller unit, instead of just buying a bigger one and selling the old one? You'd be surprised what you can sell on Ebay! Also, I'd measure the 125 degree temp at the point of delivery to the dishwasher and set the heater temp based on that, not right at the heater. |
#9
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Water Heater Install Question
I third that advice. In addition, when cold water enters a water heater,
humidity in the air can condense on the outside of the tank, and cause it to rust. Water heaters that are too small for the household's needs, will have to be refilled more frequently, and this can cause excessive condensation. wrote in message oups.com... " You did hook it up the right way. I might have put the temp of the gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions. Putting then in parallel would have been wrong. I suggest that when the time comes that you are ready to address this problem, that you consider a more conventional solution. In the long run a single larger high recovery heater is going to cost you less and require less maintenance than your current setup. -- Joseph Meehan " I second that advice. Two seperate small water heaters are going to have considerably more heat loss that one larger unit, leading to higher operating costs. How much did you manage to save by going with a second smaller unit, instead of just buying a bigger one and selling the old one? You'd be surprised what you can sell on Ebay! Also, I'd measure the 125 degree temp at the point of delivery to the dishwasher and set the heater temp based on that, not right at the heater. |
#10
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Water Heater Install Question
I would have put in an on demand whole house hot water heater.
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#11
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Water Heater Install Question
He did a GOOD THING!
If capacity is still a issue up the temp of the gas tank back to 150 degrees, then install a tempering valve Set the valve to 125 or whatever you want. It limits the maximum temperature going out to faucets to what its set at. So no one can get scalded. I nearly installed a tempering valve on my old tank, I was going to take the dishwashewr water before the valve so dishwasher would get 150 degree water, and everything else 125.... About that time my tank failed so I went with a 60 gallon pro high BTU tank. That fixed our capacity issues, but cost a fortune and only had a 6 year warranty Sadly standby losses with 2 tanks will DOUBLE, If I were you I would add lots of insulation to both! |
#12
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Water Heater Install Question
On the bright side, the last time I asked Bradford White, a 6 year and 10
year warranty were made exactly the same. The increased price difference just reflects the money it costs BW for the extra 4 year replacements. The only time it pays, is if your water heater breaks within that 4 year period. wrote in message oups.com... He did a GOOD THING! If capacity is still a issue up the temp of the gas tank back to 150 degrees, then install a tempering valve Set the valve to 125 or whatever you want. It limits the maximum temperature going out to faucets to what its set at. So no one can get scalded. I nearly installed a tempering valve on my old tank, I was going to take the dishwashewr water before the valve so dishwasher would get 150 degree water, and everything else 125.... About that time my tank failed so I went with a 60 gallon pro high BTU tank. That fixed our capacity issues, but cost a fortune and only had a 6 year warranty Sadly standby losses with 2 tanks will DOUBLE, If I were you I would add lots of insulation to both! |
#13
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Water Heater Install Question
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#14
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Water Heater Install Question
He already greatly increased his energy use by installing an electric water
heater. If he increases it to 150 degrees, it might make the electric water heater run less, so he could be saving money. "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message . .. wrote: He did a GOOD THING! If capacity is still a issue up the temp of the gas tank back to 150 degrees, then install a tempering valve .. That will increase energy use and decrease the life of the heater. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#15
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Water Heater Install Question
wrote in message
oups.com... " You did hook it up the right way. I might have put the temp of the gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions. Putting then in parallel would have been wrong. I suggest that when the time comes that you are ready to address this problem, that you consider a more conventional solution. In the long run a single larger high recovery heater is going to cost you less and require less maintenance than your current setup. -- Joseph Meehan " I second that advice. Two seperate small water heaters are going to have considerably more heat loss that one larger unit, leading to higher operating costs. How much did you manage to save by going with a second smaller unit, instead of just buying a bigger one and selling the old one? You'd be surprised what you can sell on Ebay! Also, I'd measure the 125 degree temp at the point of delivery to the dishwasher and set the heater temp based on that, not right at the heater. The electric water heater was $179. A 60 Gallon gas heater was over $400. So I figure I saved at least $220. As far as eBay goes, I looked, I MIGHT have grabbed $50-$75 for the old one. The question then is how long will it take me to run $220 of electricity through the electric water heater? I'm guessing a while, and, a 60 Gallon gas heater would have had an increased operating cost over the 40 gallon I have now. I suppose if you really wanted to crunch some numbers you might come up with the most cost effective long-run solution. Next thought; Would going from 40 to 60 and then dropping the temp from 150 to 125 really have increased my capacity that much? It would be 20 more gallons at a lower temp? Again I suppose you would have to run some numbers.. Craig |
#16
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Water Heater Install Question
Bob wrote:
He already greatly increased his energy use by installing an electric water heater. If he increases it to 150 degrees, it might make the electric water heater run less, so he could be saving money. I considered that. Since I don't know the cost per therm of each source I stuck with energy use not cost. You are right however and that should be considered as well. I hinted at that with my initial comment "I might have put the temp of the gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions." "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message . .. wrote: He did a GOOD THING! If capacity is still a issue up the temp of the gas tank back to 150 degrees, then install a tempering valve .. That will increase energy use and decrease the life of the heater. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#17
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Water Heater Install Question
Craig Robison wrote:
.... The electric water heater was $179. A 60 Gallon gas heater was over $400. So I figure I saved at least $220. As far as eBay goes, I looked, I MIGHT have grabbed $50-$75 for the old one. The question then is how long will it take me to run $220 of electricity through the electric water heater? I'm guessing a while, and, a 60 Gallon gas heater would have had an increased operating cost over the 40 gallon I have now. I suppose if you really wanted to crunch some numbers you might come up with the most cost effective long-run solution. That would depend on your local cost structure. I would guess that in some situations you would recover the investment cost quicker than you think. In others it might not be worth it. Next thought; Would going from 40 to 60 and then dropping the temp from 150 to 125 really have increased my capacity that much? It would be 20 more gallons at a lower temp? Again I suppose you would have to run some numbers.. You also need to consider the recovery rate. Not all water heaters can re-heat water at the same speed. A high recovery 40 may be enough if your current model does not have a high recovery rate. I would also add that having one 60 gallon heater will result in far less standby losses than two 40's. Craig -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#18
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Water Heater Install Question
" Would going from 40 to 60 and then dropping the temp from 150 to 125
really have increased my capacity that much? It would be 20 more gallons at a lower temp? Again I suppose you would have to run some numbers.. " I did run some numbers. Assuming the incoming cold water is 50 degrees, mixing 150 with it 3:1 gives you the 125 temp. So, a 40 gallon tank of 150 water could be mixed with 13.3 gallons of 50 degree water to yield 53.3 gallons of 125 water. So, going to the 60 gives you 60 gallons at 125, vs 53.3 by the mixing approach. The other factor to consider is the heat loss through the tank is also proportional to the temp difference. Assuming an ambient of 55 degrees, with water at 125, you have a delta of 70 deg. At 150, the delta is now 95, an increase of 36%. So, your gonna lose 35% more energy through the tank with the higher temp. I think these two together mean that unless there is some other issue, like space, the bigger tank is going to be the better solution. |
#19
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Water Heater Install Question
10.
I would have put in an on demand whole house hot water heater. I priced them today at Lowes. The warranty is 10 years, and the price for the larger unit a $1000.00 This is like buying a hybrid car to save $ on gas. The payback period is forever since the purchase price for both the on demand tank, and hybrid car is way too much. |
#20
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Water Heater Install Question
I don't know of any place where electric is cheaper than natural gas.
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message . .. Bob wrote: He already greatly increased his energy use by installing an electric water heater. If he increases it to 150 degrees, it might make the electric water heater run less, so he could be saving money. I considered that. Since I don't know the cost per therm of each source I stuck with energy use not cost. You are right however and that should be considered as well. I hinted at that with my initial comment "I might have put the temp of the gas a little higher than the electric to avoid having the electric kick in under normal conditions." "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message . .. wrote: He did a GOOD THING! If capacity is still a issue up the temp of the gas tank back to 150 degrees, then install a tempering valve .. That will increase energy use and decrease the life of the heater. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#21
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Water Heater Install Question
Craig Robison wrote:
I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) it sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and neither am I... Any Thoughts? Craig I got to thinking. Since the only time you seem to have a problem is when you have company from out of town, it may be better to have put the electric first so most of the time you can have it turned off and you will not use any electricity and will not have any standby losses (heat loss from the tank). Then when expecting company you can crank up the electric unit. You might even set it up to heat just a little to temper the water rather than heat it so the gas unit can do the real work. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#22
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Water Heater Install Question
in series that wouldnt work although he could do it by adding some
valves. although I would leave the tank full of non moving water for a extended time. the best thing he can do is monitor his electric bill if it spikes then try something else |
#23
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Water Heater Install Question
ooops meant to say dont leave tank full of non moving water for
extended time, baceteria might grow and become a health hazard |
#24
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Water Heater Install Question
Sure it would work. Probably not worth the effort, but it would work, and
would even bring the water up to attic temperature before going into the gas water heater. wrote in message oups.com... in series that wouldnt work although he could do it by adding some valves. although I would leave the tank full of non moving water for a extended time. the best thing he can do is monitor his electric bill if it spikes then try something else |
#25
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Water Heater Install Question
Not to mention, during long periods of inactivity, hydrogen sulfide gas can
build up inside a water heater. If exposed to an open flame, this gas can cause an explosion. wrote in message oups.com... ooops meant to say dont leave tank full of non moving water for extended time, baceteria might grow and become a health hazard |
#26
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Water Heater Install Question
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#27
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Water Heater Install Question
The only time two water heaters should be piped in parallel, is when they
have the same capacity and flow rate. "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message . .. wrote: in series that wouldnt work although he could do it by adding some valves. ???? In a series it should work as I explained it. Why not? although I would leave the tank full of non moving water for a extended time. Not in a series. In a series water has to flow through both tanks. In parallel it can flow through just one. the best thing he can do is monitor his electric bill if it spikes then try something else -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#28
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Water Heater Install Question
With the electric tank LAST in series, only turning on the electric
tank during periods of peak use will not work, since the water after being heated by the gas tank would cool and never be heated in the electric last tank. espically is they didnt use hot water for a couple days if his electric bills spike he could add some valves, during normal use water would enter electric tank first, and not be heated, going to gas tank for heating. this way water wouldnt sit stagnant in the electric tank. //// during peak use he would reverse this by changing valve position to gas tank first and turning on electric tank. valves are cheap, with 2 tanks of differing ages I would altering valving to isolate one tank or the other, that way when one fails as it certinally will one day he moves some valves and has hot water from the remaining good tank till the bad one is replaced. |
#29
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Water Heater Install Question
wrote in message
ups.com... With the electric tank LAST in series, only turning on the electric tank during periods of peak use will not work, since the water after being heated by the gas tank would cool and never be heated in the electric last tank. espically is they didnt use hot water for a couple days if his electric bills spike he could add some valves, during normal use water would enter electric tank first, and not be heated, going to gas tank for heating. this way water wouldnt sit stagnant in the electric tank. //// during peak use he would reverse this by changing valve position to gas tank first and turning on electric tank. valves are cheap, with 2 tanks of differing ages I would altering valving to isolate one tank or the other, that way when one fails as it certinally will one day he moves some valves and has hot water from the remaining good tank till the bad one is replaced. I certainly could do that. Or I thought I could just use a couple of valves to bypass the electric water heater all together and take the gas heated water straight into the house, but, I am concerned about what happens to a full tank of un-heated water sitting for days. I also thought about putting in a power-vented gas model in series ahead of my existing model. With it there is no pilot light so I could put a switch to kill the power to the heater, no power = no heating, but this idea became somewhat cost prohibitive and again I would have the problem of water sitting in a tank un-heated. Would you guys (gals?) mind giving me some feedback on my second post about the insulation blankets. I really appreciate all the ideas so far. I do think I will take the advice and raise the temp on the gas heater a bit in an effort to keep the electric one from running at all. Craig |
#30
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Water Heater Install Question
No matter what you do, be sure to put a drain pan under each of these water
heaters in your attic and pipe the drain down to someplace in the living space where you will see it right away. It's easier than having to replace half your ceiling. "Craig Robison" wrote in message .. . wrote in message ups.com... With the electric tank LAST in series, only turning on the electric tank during periods of peak use will not work, since the water after being heated by the gas tank would cool and never be heated in the electric last tank. espically is they didnt use hot water for a couple days if his electric bills spike he could add some valves, during normal use water would enter electric tank first, and not be heated, going to gas tank for heating. this way water wouldnt sit stagnant in the electric tank. //// during peak use he would reverse this by changing valve position to gas tank first and turning on electric tank. valves are cheap, with 2 tanks of differing ages I would altering valving to isolate one tank or the other, that way when one fails as it certinally will one day he moves some valves and has hot water from the remaining good tank till the bad one is replaced. I certainly could do that. Or I thought I could just use a couple of valves to bypass the electric water heater all together and take the gas heated water straight into the house, but, I am concerned about what happens to a full tank of un-heated water sitting for days. I also thought about putting in a power-vented gas model in series ahead of my existing model. With it there is no pilot light so I could put a switch to kill the power to the heater, no power = no heating, but this idea became somewhat cost prohibitive and again I would have the problem of water sitting in a tank un-heated. Would you guys (gals?) mind giving me some feedback on my second post about the insulation blankets. I really appreciate all the ideas so far. I do think I will take the advice and raise the temp on the gas heater a bit in an effort to keep the electric one from running at all. Craig |
#31
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Water Heater Install Question
the more insulation the better! Just DONT block venting or burner
access on the gas heater! or wiring access on the electric if you can insulate hot water line between and leaving tanks, that will save a little, and save running water till it gets hot too. insulated lines are a save save save!! They have premaid hot water tank insulating blankets. safe convenient and pretty cheap. just for the record I wouldnt leave any tank sit with stagnant water hot or not for a extended time. if were on vacation for a week I make a habit of running water espically hot but both when we get home, its cheap and seems a good precaution... |
#32
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Water Heater Install Question
I have seen those blankets cause condensation to remain on the water heater,
thus rusting it out sooner than it should have. wrote in message ups.com... the more insulation the better! Just DONT block venting or burner access on the gas heater! or wiring access on the electric if you can insulate hot water line between and leaving tanks, that will save a little, and save running water till it gets hot too. insulated lines are a save save save!! They have premaid hot water tank insulating blankets. safe convenient and pretty cheap. just for the record I wouldnt leave any tank sit with stagnant water hot or not for a extended time. if were on vacation for a week I make a habit of running water espically hot but both when we get home, its cheap and seems a good precaution... |
#33
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Water Heater Install Question
"Bob" wrote in message
... No matter what you do, be sure to put a drain pan under each of these water heaters in your attic and pipe the drain down to someplace in the living space where you will see it right away. It's easier than having to replace half your ceiling. There is a drip pan under each heater. Code requires 6 inches deep (which they are). The are both connected to a 1" PVC drain line which exits the attic and dumps the water outside the house should they leak. |
#34
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Water Heater Install Question
wrote in message ups.com... the more insulation the better! Just DONT block venting or burner access on the gas heater! or wiring access on the electric if you can insulate hot water line between and leaving tanks, that will save a little, and save running water till it gets hot too. insulated lines are a save save save!! They have premaid hot water tank insulating blankets. safe convenient and pretty cheap. just for the record I wouldnt leave any tank sit with stagnant water hot or not for a extended time. if were on vacation for a week I make a habit of running water espically hot but both when we get home, its cheap and seems a good precaution... I already took the liberty of insulating the pipes. To their credit, the original plumbing was insulated as well, I just had to add to it when I ran some extra lines to tie the water heaters together. I have seen these pre-made insulation blankets at Lowes for I believe $14. Lastly I don't think that leaving a tank of water sit is a good idea either, therefore I will just try to keep the use of the electric heater to a minimum. Thanks for the feedback... |
#35
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Water Heater Install Question
That's good, but make sure you can see any water from a window you look out
a lot. I've seen people run them into rain gutter and never know they were leaking until the water heater bursts. Then they say "I guess that's where all the water on my lawn was coming from." "Craig Robison" wrote in message . .. "Bob" wrote in message ... No matter what you do, be sure to put a drain pan under each of these water heaters in your attic and pipe the drain down to someplace in the living space where you will see it right away. It's easier than having to replace half your ceiling. There is a drip pan under each heater. Code requires 6 inches deep (which they are). The are both connected to a 1" PVC drain line which exits the attic and dumps the water outside the house should they leak. |
#36
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Water Heater Install Question
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:45:10 GMT, "Craig Robison"
wrote: : :"Tony Hwang" wrote in message :news:OfhCf.453788$ki.271597@pd7tw2no... : Craig Robison wrote: : I have a perfectly good 40 gallon Natural Gas water heater (in the attic) : it sometimes proved to be insufficient with company in town so I did what : you should not do and cranked up the temp to about 145-150 and it seemed : to help although we still ran out during times of heavy use. Now we have : a kid on the way, water is SCALDING HOT and we are going to need more of : it anyway. Long story short I found that it was cheaper to add a second : 40 gallon water heater (plenty of room) than to replace the existing one : (I hated the idea of removing a good water heater, it is only 5 years : old). Also, I went electric instead of gas, mostly because I did not : want to cut a hole in the roof for the vent AND the electric model was : cheaper AND I just happened to have a no-longer-used 10 gauge wire : running right to it. Natural gas prices are sky-rocketing but I still : think that a gas water heater is cheaper to operate than an electric : model SO, I plumbed them in series rather than parallel. That is to say : the hot water leaves the gas water heater and goes into the electric : water heater then into the house. In this manner I figure that the gas : heater is still doing most of the heating and the electric one is more : like a storage tank. I have set them both to 125 degrees, the minimum : temperature that the dishwasher manual recommends (to do this I filled a : bucket full from the T&P valve and took the temp right there). My : question, is there anything wrong with having the water flow from one to : the other in this manner? I cannot see why the electric water heater : cares what temperature the inlet water is. For what it is worth the guy : at Home Depot thought it was brilliant, but he aint a plumber, and : neither am I... : Any Thoughts? : : Craig : : : Hi, : I always had two gas heater in series. But have no experience with : gas-electric combo. I'd think they'll have different recovery rate. : Tony : :I agree, I suspect that the 3800 watt, single element, el-cheapo electric :water heater recovers pretty slow. Compared to the 30K BTU NG heater... :another reason I put them in series. :Craig : What I don't understand is setting them at the same temperature. If you are going to do that I'd think you'd have the gas one before the electric one and set the electric one's thermostat a little higher than the gas. Then the gas one will do most of the work (which is what you want). IOW, if you want 125 degree water, set the gas one to 110 or 115 and the electric to 125. Dan |
#37
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Water Heater Install Question
" : : : Hi, : I always had two gas heater in series. But have no experience with : gas-electric combo. I'd think they'll have different recovery rate. : Tony : :I agree, I suspect that the 3800 watt, single element, el-cheapo electric :water heater recovers pretty slow. Compared to the 30K BTU NG heater... :another reason I put them in series. :Craig : What I don't understand is setting them at the same temperature. If you are going to do that I'd think you'd have the gas one before the electric one and set the electric one's thermostat a little higher than the gas. Then the gas one will do most of the work (which is what you want). IOW, if you want 125 degree water, set the gas one to 110 or 115 and the electric to 125. Dan Well, I've been down this road too. In fact for a while I ran the gas heater (which is the first in the series) at about 115 degrees and the electric at 120. My thinking was that the gas one would do "most" of the heating and the electric could kick it up that last 5 degrees. In this manner the standby heat loss from the gas heater would be as low as possible because the water is only at about 115. The new heater I suspect has the better insulation and so I would be wasting less energy keeping it at 120. But, now I'm not so sure... perhaps it is better to run the gas heater at say 130 and in so doing try to prevent the electric one from even turning on under normal loads and only run during times of heavy demand. But that would increase my standby loss in the gas heater which means it starts costing more. The question is, (taking into consideration the standby losses from both water heaters) is it cheaper to run the gas at 115 and let the electric one raise it to 120 OR is it cheaper to run the gas at 125-130 and try to prevent the electric one from running at all? I realize that they both will run from time to time as a result of the standby losses... While I'm thinking about it, is there a way for me to track how much the electric heater runs? I need like a 240 volt clock that I can hook to the terminals on the heating element or perhaps some sort of inline meter (much like the utility company uses). I figure with something like that I can just "tweak" my settings from weak to weak until I find a combination that runs the electric heater as seldom as possible. Craig |
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