Sixty feet under
at http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20051...0343-3355r.htm

On 7 Dec 2005 19:43:26 -0800, wrote:

Sixty feet under
at http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20051...0343-3355r.htm

I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***

wrote in message
...
On 7 Dec 2005 19:43:26 -0800, wrote:

Sixty feet under
at http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20051...0343-3355r.htm

I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***


Yeah. About as dumb as someone who would click into an unknown link
................

Steve

wrote:
Sixty feet under

"What happens is through cooking and the opening and closing of windows,
the interior adjusts to a temperature that is comfortable to you,"

Yeah, sure. Uh huh.

The only smart ones were the local banks that refused financing. He will
have a 150$ a year heat bill and keep it at 55-60, not if he has a
family he wont. Im zone 5 and my temp at 4 ft goes to 35f , they are
dreaming.

Travis Jordan wrote:

"What happens is through cooking and the opening and closing of windows,
the interior adjusts to a temperature that is comfortable to you,"

Yeah, sure. Uh huh.

Why not, with enough insulation? The deep ground temp in Seattle is 52 F
and an average house uses 800 kWh/mo (3800 Btu/h) of electricity, so
a 2300 ft^2 house with 6000 ft^2 of exterior surface could stay 70 F if
3800Btu/h = (70F-52F)6000ft^2/Rv, with Rv = 28 ft^2-F-h/Btu walls.

The yearly average sun on the ground is 1050 Btu/ft^2 per day, and 820 falls
on a south wall, so a house with lots of insulation and thermal mass could
stay 70 F with no indoor electrical usage with A ft^2 of R2 skylights with
80% solar transmission if 24h(70-52)((6000-A)/Rv+A/2) = 0.8x1050A, ie A
= 6000/(1+1.44Rv) = 201 ft^2 with R20 walls or 100 ft^2 with R40 walls.

With a long time constant, the indoor temp changes slowly, so there's no need
for a thermostat :-) My neighbor raised the temp of his PA underground solar
house from 70 to 72 F every year by closing windows over 2 weeks in November.

Why are the homeowners only shooting for 55-60 F and how can the house be
"sixty feet under" 50 tons of soil?

John Hait's 1983 "Passive Annual Heat Storage" and Mike Oehler's
"$50 and Up Underground House" books are related...

Nick

Got any replies to the article?
You're a contractor? Your words will haunted you if you're for hire..
mike

SteveB wrote:
wrote in message
Yeah. About as dumb as someone who would click into an unknown link
...............

Steve

wrote:
I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***

Yeah, the nerve, they must think so much of themselves they don't have
to explain themselves and we are priveledged that they would stoop to
share a ****ing link with us.

wrote:
Travis Jordan wrote:

"What happens is through cooking and the opening and closing of
windows, the interior adjusts to a temperature that is comfortable
to you,"

Yeah, sure. Uh huh.

Why not, with enough insulation? The deep ground temp in Seattle is
52 F

Because they aren't building in Seattle, they are building in Clinton,
MA, where the frost line is probably about 20" or so.

Travis Jordan wrote:
wrote:
Travis Jordan wrote:

"What happens is through cooking and the opening and closing of
windows, the interior adjusts to a temperature that is comfortable
to you,"

Yeah, sure. Uh huh.

Why not, with enough insulation? The deep ground temp in Seattle is
52 F

Because they aren't building in Seattle, they are building in Clinton,
MA, where the frost line is probably about 20" or so.

And they'll need a dehumidifier most of the year which will cost more
than $150 to run just by itself.

wrote:
Got any replies to the article?
You're a contractor? Your words will haunted you if you're for hire..
mike

SteveB wrote:
wrote in message
Yeah. About as dumb as someone who would click into an unknown link
...............

Steve

I'm not a contractor but have done work for others. I also don't go to
links with no clue as to what they are. I still haven't read it and
don't intend to. Instead of what you posted, you could have just
explained what it was about. Next time, do so in the header.

Harry K

Travis Jordan wrote:

"What happens is through cooking and the opening and closing of
windows, the interior adjusts to a temperature that is comfortable
to you,"

Why not, with enough insulation? The deep ground temp in Seattle is
52 F

Because they aren't building in Seattle, they are building in Clinton,
MA, where the frost line is probably about 20" or so.

So, The Washington Times is not from WA, but MA, where the deep ground temp
in Worcester is 46.7 F, so a 2300 ft^2 house with 6000 ft^2 of surface could
stay 70 F if 3800Btu/h = (70F-46.7F)6000ft^2/Rv, with R37 walls.

The yearly average sun on the ground is 1220 Btu/ft^2 per day, it could stay
70 F with no indoor electrical usage with A ft^2 of R2 skylights with 80%
solar transmission if 24h(70-46.7)((6000-A)/Rv+A/2) = 0.8x1220A, ie
A = 6000/(1+1.24Rv) = 232 ft^2 with R20 walls or 118 ft^2 with R40 walls.

And they'll need a dehumidifier most of the year which will cost more
than $150 to run just by itself.

It shouldn't need any dehumidification, if it's fairly airtight.
The worst-case month is July, with w = 0.0112.

Nick

wrote in message
oups.com...
Got any replies to the article?
You're a contractor? Your words will haunted you if you're for hire..
mike

SteveB wrote:
wrote in message
Yeah. About as dumb as someone who would click into an unknown link
...............

Steve

As a matter of fact, I WAS a steel erection contractor for nine years. Can
you stop being so vague by sending people all over the Internet and put your
position into words we can understand?

It would sure help.

STeve

wrote in message
oups.com...
Got any replies to the article?
You're a contractor? Your words will haunted you if you're for hire..
mike

SteveB wrote:
wrote in message
Yeah. About as dumb as someone who would click into an unknown link
...............

Steve

"chickenwing" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***

Yeah, the nerve, they must think so much of themselves they don't have
to explain themselves and we are priveledged that they would stoop to
share a ****ing link with us.


I clicked a link one time someone had put in here. It was a girl in a
bathtub ****ting up in the air and catching it in her mouth.

That will cure you from linking into things with blind trust and NO
descriptions.

Were you born stupid, or did you just practice a lot?

Steve

wrote:
It shouldn't need any dehumidification, if it's fairly airtight.
The worst-case month is July, with w = 0.0112.

Um, if it is fairly airtight, where does the moisture from cooking,
bathrooms, etc. go?

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
Groundwater heating and cooling works just as well in North Dakota as
it does in Dallas Texas. This sort of thing is no longer "news"

You can keep your house at a comfy 72 degrees in the winter using 52
degree ground water.

How can you warm your house to 72 degrees with an outdoor ambient of 30
degrees and a ground water temperature of 52 degrees?

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:44:24 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
wrote:
How can you warm your house to 72 degrees with an outdoor ambient
of 30 degrees and a ground water temperature of 52 degrees?

By extracting the heat from the 52 degree water. Sounds
counter-intuitive, but it works, and it's done all the time.

Sure, but that requires energy to exchange the heat just as an
air-source heat pump requires energy to extract heat from ambient air.
The OP's reference article stated that the homeowners of the
subterrainain house planned their energy costs to be $150. I just
don't see how they are going to get there.

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
How can you warm your house to 72 degrees with an outdoor ambient of 30
degrees and a ground water temperature of 52 degrees?


By extracting the heat from the 52 degree water. Sounds
counter-intuitive, but it works, and it's done all the time.

Probably using a heat pump, to complete the explanation.

Bob

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:

The Mall of America, using a slightly different approach, spends ZERO
DOLLARS for heating, despite being located in frigid Minnesota. They
couldn't spend anything if they wanted too, as they have no heating
plant at all.

A heating distribution center would still be a heating plant even if no
heat was added to the system at that location, wouldn't it? Rule of
thumb: find the warmest room in the building, that's the heating plant.


R

OMG...
"SteveB" wrote in message
newsx_lf.1129$Ev.289@fed1read06...

"chickenwing" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***

Yeah, the nerve, they must think so much of themselves they don't have
to explain themselves and we are priveledged that they would stoop to
share a ****ing link with us.


I clicked a link one time someone had put in here. It was a girl in a
bathtub ****ting up in the air and catching it in her mouth.


I was reaching for my beverage, about to take a sip when I read that line.
Almost los the keybaord AND the monitor that time...

TubGirl gotcha, didn't she?

"HeatMan" wrote in message
. ..
OMG...
"SteveB" wrote in message
newsx_lf.1129$Ev.289@fed1read06...

"chickenwing" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I hate people that post links without explaining what they are about.
Oh well,
***PLONK***

Yeah, the nerve, they must think so much of themselves they don't have
to explain themselves and we are priveledged that they would stoop to
share a ****ing link with us.


I clicked a link one time someone had put in here. It was a girl in a
bathtub ****ting up in the air and catching it in her mouth.


I was reaching for my beverage, about to take a sip when I read that line.
Almost los the keybaord AND the monitor that time...

TubGirl gotcha, didn't she?




Yup. And you see my point about this moron's statement about:

Yeah, the nerve, they must think so much of themselves they don't have
to explain themselves and we are priveledged that they would stoop to
share a ****ing link with us.

Steve

This is Turtle.

That was Oscar's Girlfriend !

Now don't open any links from Oscar when and if he replys !

TURTLE