Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.

Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold
because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after
fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would
have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat
more than ten days.

I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They
advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was
small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving.

Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament
was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle.
Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible.

On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized
silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal
shock. NASA uses it.

The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers.
Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which
had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by
foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete,
for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it.

Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the
table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my
hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was
certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived.

In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side
where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament
glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch
it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in
shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he
had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS.
It gave a phone number.

The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's
fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had
not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of
this information had been on his informative website, why the
manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his
visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material
with a gritty surface.

I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could
send another. They replied that they were sending another. I
replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local
outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was
reading my message and would cancel the shipment.

It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to
be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I
bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged
my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver.

It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and
blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I
emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I
thought the broken one must have come from the factory with
invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch
such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times
while monitoring current draw.

He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected
it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I
replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a
new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem
that could be fixed easily.

I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45
AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another
ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another
because I already had one.

At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a
package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and
immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine
stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor
because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me
that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30.

In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my
email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked
for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period
of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have
charged my credit card without authorization.

I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:58:18 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote:

Countless lines of absolute blibber blabber crazy **** spewed forth
by Sawney Beane deleted

I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and start
calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue about. You
got exactly what you paid for.
That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time. Cant really
believe I read it all.
Bubba
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Colbyt
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.


If this is a true story, I hope they kissed you because they sure as heck
.............

Find a local supplier and buy what you need. Fight the CC battles and get
your money back.

And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.


Colbyt


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Rich Greenberg
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

In article ,
Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.

Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold
because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after
fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would
have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat
more than ten days.

I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They
advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was
small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving.

Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament
was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle.
Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible.

On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized
silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal
shock. NASA uses it.

The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers.
Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which
had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by
foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete,
for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it.

Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the
table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my
hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was
certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived.

In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side
where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament
glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch
it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in
shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he
had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS.
It gave a phone number.

The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's
fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had
not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of
this information had been on his informative website, why the
manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his
visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material
with a gritty surface.

I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could
send another. They replied that they were sending another. I
replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local
outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was
reading my message and would cancel the shipment.

It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to
be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I
bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged
my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver.

It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and
blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I
emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I
thought the broken one must have come from the factory with
invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch
such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times
while monitoring current draw.

He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected
it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I
replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a
new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem
that could be fixed easily.

I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45
AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another
ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another
because I already had one.

At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a
package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and
immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine
stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor
because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me
that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30.

In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my
email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked
for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period
of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have
charged my credit card without authorization.

I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return
it.

Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and
sent certified mail.

Next time buy from a local reputable company.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
m Ransley
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

buy 5 more see what happens



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Trajen
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts



Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return
it.

Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and
sent certified mail.

Next time buy from a local reputable company.

--

Good advice Rich.

Sawney, sorry but i fell asleep somewhere between the 5th and 14th
paragraph, did you happen to
say who you purchased the ignitor from? Please let us know.


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS.


This is true.


Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.


Credit Card company


On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized
silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal
shock. NASA uses it.

The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers.
Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which
had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by
foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete,
for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it.


So, it was OK leaving the factory.


If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he
had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS.
It gave a phone number.


Yes, that is the way UPS handles things.


It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and
blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I
emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I
thought the broken one must have come from the factory with
invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch
such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times
while monitoring current draw.


Above you said it showed that QC tested it. Why do you insist on blaming
the factory when in fact they did test it?




He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected
it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one.


OK, the guy is trying to make things right.




At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a
package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and
immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine
stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor
because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me
that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30.


Some confusion here. Just refuse the package.



I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


You said you already bought one local. It is just your non-professional
opinion that the seller is wrong, but evidence you posted points to the
contrary. Send it back, refuse it, get a credit and move on with life. You
were wrong, IMO to accuse the company of malpractice.


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
RicodJour
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Sawney Beane wrote:

I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


Contact the credit card company - tell them you suspect fraud. Same
with UPS. Be aware if you go into laborious detail you will probably
be considered a crank. Ultimately you should have learned that you
don't gamble on important things like a heated house to save a few
bucks. There are plenty of other places to save money that don't have
the consequences.

R

  #9   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Terry
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message



And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.



I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes

I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After
a split second of heating, no oil.

http://www.supco.com/images/pdfprodu...s/Ignitors.pdf


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Red Neckerson
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.


deleting a bunch whining and sniveling


Trying to be a cheapskate and buy second-hand **** when you should have
gotten it locally (and maybe paid a couple bucks more).

Face it: You ****ed up. Pay the money to get the right part from a repuable
company and then shut the **** up.

Lesson learned, tight ass.....




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Dr. Hardcrab
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Red Neckerson" wrote in message
news:NGNjf.21833$KZ2.12665@trnddc05...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to
contact.


deleting a bunch whining and sniveling


Trying to be a cheapskate and buy second-hand **** when you should have
gotten it locally (and maybe paid a couple bucks more).

Face it: You ****ed up. Pay the money to get the right part from a
repuable company


Did you mean reputable?

It WAS a reputable company! I mean, he DID find it on the internet, and the
internet is ALWAYS right.......


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Colbyt
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Terry" wrote in message
news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72...

"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message



And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the

igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.



I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes

I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide.

After
a split second of heating, no oil.



I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a
very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told
that the oil causes overheating.


Colbyt


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Bubba" wrote in message
Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and

start
calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue

about. You
got exactly what you paid for.
That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time.

Cant really
believe I read it all.
Bubba


Why don't you go back to alt.hvac with the rest of the
losers there. You are of no use here, it seems.

Bob

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Stretch
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It
has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature
failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off
hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster
and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of
money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to
buy parts on the internet.

Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to
save a little money.

Stretch
(HVAC contractor in South Carolina)

  #15   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with

your skin. It
has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to

premature
failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would

be better off
hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly

be faster
and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save

LOTS of
money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you

won't need to
buy parts on the internet.

Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some

people will do to
save a little money.

Stretch
(HVAC contractor in South Carolina)


Now that's a much better presentation!

Bob



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Stretch wrote:

Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It
has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature
failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off
hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster
and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of
money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to
buy parts on the internet.

Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to
save a little money.

Stretch
(HVAC contractor in South Carolina)


Like you, the local HVAC people seemed to think I should leave my
furnace off indefinitely. I turned to the internet to keep from
catching cold. I would have been glad to pay more locally.

Last summer lightning hit my chimney and killed my AC. The 24V 3A
fuse was blown on the computer board in the furnace. To isolate
the problem, I disconnected the 24V leads going to the thermostat
and put in a 5A fuse. I would be standing by the power switch and
the bigger fuse would be less likely to blow instantly.

I found there was a short on the board and called the HVAC company.
I had a stool ready so the repairman wouldn't get his butt cold
and dirty.

He expressed gratitude for the stool. Then he saw the disconnected
wires and chewed me out. It seemed to go on for ever. With my
lifetime of experience getting into trouble, I didn't argue because
that would not have assured him at all.

He said the trouble was that HVAC men don't neccessarily adhere to
color codes, so he had no idea which wire went where. I said I
could tell him. He asked how. I said I'd made notes and diagrams
of the wires I'd removed, but it probably wouldn't be necessary to
get my notes because I'd used masking tape to fasten the thermostat
wires in the proper order. He said he would have done the same.

I said I thought lightning had shorted something on the board. He
asked how I knew. I said the transformer had hummed. He asked how
I'd known it was the transformer. I said I'd put my finger on it.
He tried it and agreed. He said he needed to hook things up
anyway. I told him the order of the blower leads and checked my
notes to be sure. This time the humming stopped. I said the short
had probably burned open. He agreed.

I told him I'd rebuilt the computer board after a flood seven years
ago. I said finding sources for the components had been a hassle.
He said that he simply replaced boards because a factory instructor
had told him a DMM would zap the semiconductors. I said I thought
that information was obsolete. I said it was true when I had
started, in the days of VOMs and germanium, but nowadays it seemed
all a tech had to watch out for was static.

He shook my hand and apologized for getting mad. I would have been
mad, too. I'd left the wires undone because I hadn't realized
wiring could confuse a pro. I was glad I'd met him because I found
him honest, competent, and reliable.

I could have gotten a new board through the internet for $150. He
quoted $400 and a wait of just as many days. I bought from him
because I trusted him. I said I'd like one of those diagnosing
boards because it would be good to be able to phone and tell him
what was wrong if I ever had trouble. He agreed that it would be a
good choice for me.

Two weeks ago the board said it was an ignition failure. One
component on the burner had one thin wire. The other had two fat
wires. A sensor wouldn't need two fat wires, so that was the
ignitor. It read open on a DMM.

I called the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cellphone number
in case of emergency. I was pretty cold, so I dialed it. That
machine said they'd get back to me. After sitting by the phone two
hours in a cold house, it was hard to unbend my legs to stand up.
Apparently they were unwilling to speak to a hypothermic man on a
Saturday. I wouldn't be able to check until Monday, and I was
afraid the ignitor would have to be ordered, like my computer
board. I wanted to be sure I could get the part Monday, but nobody
I knew could think of a place that sold furnace parts. The
uncertainty that I could get it locally drove me to the internet.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Colbyt wrote:

"Terry" wrote in message
news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72...

"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message



And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the

igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.



I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes

I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide.

After
a split second of heating, no oil.


I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a
very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told
that the oil causes overheating.

Colbyt


It made me suspicious that the warning, apparently intended to be
read after the customer had handled the ignitor, didn't say *why*
touching it would cause failure. I knew skin oil would break a
quartz bulb by causing it to absorb radiant energy unevenly, but
that wouldn't apply to an ignitor.

When I bought one locally, the distributor said it was skin oil. I
suspected that was a myth to explain why some ignitors soon failed.
One manufacturer sells nitride converstion kits because repairmen
get so many callbacks after replacing crystalized silicon carbide
ignitors. I think the failure process begins when stress, shock,
or vibration causes a tiny surface crack. If it takes time and
perhaps thermal cycles for the crack to grow, the cause is unclear
when it fails.
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Rich Greenberg wrote:

In article ,
Sawney Beane wrote:



I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return
it.


I'll do that. I think probably this one is okay, but I don't need
it now and don't trust the vendor.


Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and
sent certified mail.


I don't think certified mail is necessary. I had couple of
problems several years ago. My bank agreed and I got chargebacks.
This month, for the first time since then, I wrote to my bank about
another charge I considered fraudulent. I've gotten a chargeback.
It's a powerful weapon because the offending company must pay a big
penalty to the CC company. Now another problem in the same month?
These things must come in clusters.


Next time buy from a local reputable company.

This is the first problem I've had with a small, unknown company.
I think it's the big companies who have the MBAs who see how much
they can improve the bottom line by bilking CC customers. Most
customers won't complain. If the other shoe falls and chargebacks
spoil the bottom line, those MBAs expect to be long gone.
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...



On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized
silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal
shock. NASA uses it.

The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers.
Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which
had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by
foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete,
for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it.


So, it was OK leaving the factory.


That's what the vendor says, but I don't see how the damage could
have occurred subsequently in the foam package. Heat marks prove
only that it was cycled once, which would not necessarily have
shown cracking. Now that the vendor has sent me an ignitor that I
have five times asked him not to send, I mistrust him. I think the
factory tested it properly and discarded it.

Anyway, it's certainly not glass as the vendor said.


It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and
blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I
emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I
thought the broken one must have come from the factory with
invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch
such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times
while monitoring current draw.


Above you said it showed that QC tested it. Why do you insist on blaming
the factory when in fact they did test it?


If the vendor was honest, the manufacturer had failed to catch
these cracks. As I said, repeatedly cycling an ignitor would cause
any cracks to grow and become evident by monitoring current. If the
vendor was honest, it seemed the manufacturer hadn't been so thorough.


He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected
it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one.


OK, the guy is trying to make things right.


By sending me something I had told him five times I didn't want?



At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a
package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and
immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine
stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor
because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me
that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30.


Some confusion here. Just refuse the package.


Confusion?


I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


You said you already bought one local.


What's your point?

It is just your non-professional
opinion that the seller is wrong,


Should I rely on the opinion of a professional who says a DMM will
wreck a semiconductor or skin oil will wreck an HSI?

If the manufacturer said these ignitors often shattered when double
boxed and well padded, that would be significant. If the
manufacturer said his QC was ineffectual, that would be
significant. If UPS said very few of this vendor's ignitor
customers had problems, that would be significant.

but evidence you posted points to the
contrary.


What evidence did I post that says UPS broke it?
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert
 
Posts: n/a
Default Simple answer

Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.


UPS should have been yoru hint. Its not yoru problem its the sellers
problem. Call the credit card company and ask the procedure to deal
with not paying the seller. Do what they say. Call seller and tell him
to kiss yoru ass.

why can't I type 'your'???


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

If you suspect fraud, write to:
1. Your State's Attorney general.
2. The dispute department of your credit card company.

Document what you just told us.
Provide details (times, dates, names of who you spoke to, copies of
orders, etc.)

Say in the letter to your ccard company (copy the vendor & the AG)
"The vendor has failed to fulfill his side of the purchase contract
(document this)"
"I have made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the vendor
(document this)"
"The vendor has failed to act in good faith (document this)"
"Therefore, I dispute charges on date [xxx] from vendor [xxx] in the
amount of [xxx]"

Sign and date.
Use certified mail if you want a record of it, but you don't need to.

If these things are true and you have documentation to back them up,
you should have no problem. Assuming that you acted within your ccard
company's time window.

Typically ccard company says "OK, you said he ripped you off; we
believe you; here's the money back and we won't pay him. Hope you
didn't lie, because then you committed fraud. We're not involved; just
doing what you told us to do."

Within the time limit, it's no risk to the ccard company because they
haven't paid him yet.

Did you use paypal? Pay by check? Very little recourse here, and now
you know WHY the vendor won't take a ccard!

  #22   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Mike Berger
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a
known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.

However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with
UPS.

Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.

  #23   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

wrote:
If you suspect fraud, write to:
1. Your State's Attorney general.
2. The dispute department of your credit card company.

Document what you just told us.
Provide details (times, dates, names of who you spoke to, copies of
orders, etc.)

Say in the letter to your ccard company (copy the vendor & the AG)
"The vendor has failed to fulfill his side of the purchase contract
(document this)"
"I have made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the vendor
(document this)"
"The vendor has failed to act in good faith (document this)"
"Therefore, I dispute charges on date [xxx] from vendor [xxx] in the
amount of [xxx]"

Sign and date.
Use certified mail if you want a record of it, but you don't need to.

If these things are true and you have documentation to back them up,
you should have no problem. Assuming that you acted within your ccard
company's time window.

Typically ccard company says "OK, you said he ripped you off; we
believe you; here's the money back and we won't pay him. Hope you
didn't lie, because then you committed fraud. We're not involved; just
doing what you told us to do."

Within the time limit, it's no risk to the ccard company because they
haven't paid him yet.

Did you use paypal? Pay by check? Very little recourse here, and now
you know WHY the vendor won't take a ccard!


Also mail fraud is a federal offence in the US.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Robertm
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

In my business I ship and receive. The UPS customer is the shipper, the
receiver is the consignee. Therefore UPS doesn't have much interest in
talking to the person receiving the package.

Bob


"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a
known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.

However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with
UPS.

Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to
contact.



  #25   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:36:55 -0800, "Bob"
wrote:


"Bubba" wrote in message
Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and

start
calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue

about. You
got exactly what you paid for.
That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time.

Cant really
believe I read it all.
Bubba


Why don't you go back to alt.hvac with the rest of the
losers there. You are of no use here, it seems.

Bob


Wanna make me...............Bobby?
Bubba


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:53:35 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote:

Stretch wrote:

Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It
has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature
failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off
hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster
and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of
money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to
buy parts on the internet.

Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to
save a little money.

Stretch
(HVAC contractor in South Carolina)


Like you, the local HVAC people seemed to think I should leave my
furnace off indefinitely. I turned to the internet to keep from
catching cold. I would have been glad to pay more locally.

Last summer lightning hit my chimney and killed my AC. The 24V 3A
fuse was blown on the computer board in the furnace. To isolate
the problem, I disconnected the 24V leads going to the thermostat
and put in a 5A fuse. I would be standing by the power switch and
the bigger fuse would be less likely to blow instantly.

I found there was a short on the board and called the HVAC company.
I had a stool ready so the repairman wouldn't get his butt cold
and dirty.

He expressed gratitude for the stool. Then he saw the disconnected
wires and chewed me out. It seemed to go on for ever. With my
lifetime of experience getting into trouble, I didn't argue because
that would not have assured him at all.

He said the trouble was that HVAC men don't neccessarily adhere to
color codes, so he had no idea which wire went where. I said I
could tell him. He asked how. I said I'd made notes and diagrams
of the wires I'd removed, but it probably wouldn't be necessary to
get my notes because I'd used masking tape to fasten the thermostat
wires in the proper order. He said he would have done the same.

I said I thought lightning had shorted something on the board. He
asked how I knew. I said the transformer had hummed. He asked how
I'd known it was the transformer. I said I'd put my finger on it.
He tried it and agreed. He said he needed to hook things up
anyway. I told him the order of the blower leads and checked my
notes to be sure. This time the humming stopped. I said the short
had probably burned open. He agreed.

I told him I'd rebuilt the computer board after a flood seven years
ago. I said finding sources for the components had been a hassle.
He said that he simply replaced boards because a factory instructor
had told him a DMM would zap the semiconductors. I said I thought
that information was obsolete. I said it was true when I had
started, in the days of VOMs and germanium, but nowadays it seemed
all a tech had to watch out for was static.

He shook my hand and apologized for getting mad. I would have been
mad, too. I'd left the wires undone because I hadn't realized
wiring could confuse a pro. I was glad I'd met him because I found
him honest, competent, and reliable.

I could have gotten a new board through the internet for $150. He
quoted $400 and a wait of just as many days. I bought from him
because I trusted him. I said I'd like one of those diagnosing
boards because it would be good to be able to phone and tell him
what was wrong if I ever had trouble. He agreed that it would be a
good choice for me.

Two weeks ago the board said it was an ignition failure. One
component on the burner had one thin wire. The other had two fat
wires. A sensor wouldn't need two fat wires, so that was the
ignitor. It read open on a DMM.

I called the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cellphone number
in case of emergency. I was pretty cold, so I dialed it. That
machine said they'd get back to me. After sitting by the phone two
hours in a cold house, it was hard to unbend my legs to stand up.
Apparently they were unwilling to speak to a hypothermic man on a
Saturday. I wouldn't be able to check until Monday, and I was
afraid the ignitor would have to be ordered, like my computer
board. I wanted to be sure I could get the part Monday, but nobody
I knew could think of a place that sold furnace parts. The
uncertainty that I could get it locally drove me to the internet.


So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly
what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter
on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I
can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee
of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to
do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play
on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like
its someone else's fault.
ITS YOURS.
Bubba
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
mm
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:17:28 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote:

Colbyt wrote:

"Terry" wrote in message
news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72...

"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message


And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the

igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.


I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes

I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide.

After
a split second of heating, no oil.


I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a
very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told
that the oil causes overheating.

Colbyt


It made me suspicious that the warning, apparently intended to be
read after the customer had handled the ignitor, didn't say *why*
touching it would cause failure. I knew skin oil would break a
quartz bulb by causing it to absorb radiant energy unevenly, but
that wouldn't apply to an ignitor.

When I bought one locally, the distributor said it was skin oil. I
suspected that was a myth to explain why some ignitors soon failed.


You're too suspiciuos for your own good. They fail after 5 years
instead of after 10. Just stop touching them already.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Terry wrote:

"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71...

"Sawney Beane" wrote in message


And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter.
The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the
"ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way.


I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes

I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After
a split second of heating, no oil.

http://www.supco.com/images/pdfprodu...s/Ignitors.pdf


Terry, thanks a lot! The pdf indicates that it's widely believed
that a visual inspection will show whether an ignitor is operable.
I now believe my online dealer is honest.

White-Rodgers has developed a nitride converstion kit because HVAC
men get so many callbacks on installations of silicon carbide
ignitors. If the professionals can screw in a light bulb without
breaking it, I think they can install an ignitor without damaging
it. The skin-oil myth must be an attempt to explain failures where
no other cause is known.

Is Supco the only company that tries to expose myths about checking
and handling ignitors? If other companies are complacement about
the misinformation, maybe they're also complacent about quality control.
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Bubba wrote:


So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly
what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter
on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I
can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee
of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to
do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play
on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like
its someone else's fault.
ITS YOURS.
Bubba


Hello, Troll.

There's one company in this area that services my brand. In June I
paid them $400 for a board I could have bought for $150. I figured
meeting their price was like paying a laywer a retainer. If I had
an emergency, they'd know I was a customer.

When my furnace wouldn't burn, I didn't think about the internet.
I phoned the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cell phone
number. I called that number and got another machine. I explained
that my house was cold and I needed an ignitor. I sat in the cold
by the phone two hours, waiting.

I would have been willing to wait until Monday or later to get
heat, but it looked as these people were not even willing to talk
to me. Did I go shopping online? No, I went around the
neighborhood asking if anyone could recommend an HVAC man. I
didn't get a single lead.

I returned home and found that somebody had hung up on my answering
machine. I called friends and relatives. The only recommendation
I got was for a part-time HVAC man who lived 50 miles away and
didn't deal with my brand.

That's when I went online. Four days later I phoned the HVAC
company where I used to be a generous customer. The woman
recognized my voice and said she had returned my call Saturday but
got my answering machine. That was her excuse for not being
willing to speak to me when I needed help.

The high markup I paid her company was money down the toilet.
Judging by the number of recommendations I got, arrogance like
yours and hers must be very common in the HVAC industry. I'm glad
I found a reliable, helpful dealer on the internet. He's a prince
among HVAC men.
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Until November 29, I assumed he had not known the part was bad. I
thought it was wrong to blame UPS and wondered why he insisted that
his visual inspection proved it had been good. As Terry documented
above, a visual inspection means nothing. If he'd made the
recommended electrical check, he would have known it was cracked.

Then he shipped me another ignitor in spite of my telling him
repeatedly that I didn't want or need it. November 23, when I said
the first one was broken, his wife immediately said they were
sending another. I emailed her and talked to her on the phone,
asking her not to send it because I knew where to get one locally.
She agreed and none was sent.

Six days later, at 5:45 AM November 29, without my requesting one,
he emailed me to say he was sending one. When I read it at 1:30, I
immediately replied asking him not to send any. At 4:30 UPS sent
me a message that he had told them to pick up my package. When I
read it at 6:30, I phoned and left a message identifying myself and
asking them please not to send it. At 8:30 UPS picked it up.

To call that a mixup stretches my credibility a long way. If it
were an honest mistake, wouldn't he have emailed me in the three
days since?

His shipments include a paper with the UPS phone number telling
customers it's up to them to contact UPS and claim damages. He
leads the receiver to expect payment from UPS. Is it a fact that a
claim by the receiver will result in a payment to the shipper? Do
you believe that all this time he has been ignorant of this?



Mike Berger wrote:

There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a
known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.

However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with
UPS.

Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.



  #31   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
CBHVAC
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
...
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note
saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's
the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another
even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and
email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer
twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact.

Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold
because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after
fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would
have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat
more than ten days.

I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They
advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was
small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving.

Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament
was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle.
Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible.

On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized
silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal
shock. NASA uses it.

The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers.
Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which
had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by
foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete,
for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it.

Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the
table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my
hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was
certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived.

In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side
where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament
glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch
it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in
shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he
had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS.
It gave a phone number.

The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's
fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had
not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of
this information had been on his informative website, why the
manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his
visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material
with a gritty surface.

I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could
send another. They replied that they were sending another. I
replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local
outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was
reading my message and would cancel the shipment.

It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to
be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I
bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged
my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver.

It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and
blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I
emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I
thought the broken one must have come from the factory with
invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch
such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times
while monitoring current draw.

He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected
it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I
replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a
new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem
that could be fixed easily.

I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45
AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another
ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another
because I already had one.

At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a
package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and
immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine
stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor
because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me
that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30.

In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my
email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked
for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period
of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have
charged my credit card without authorization.

I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of
trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a
company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend
Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now?


Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install one
with a warranty....
I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a
feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken.


  #32   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bubba
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:09:08 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote:

Bubba wrote:


So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly
what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter
on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I
can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee
of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to
do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play
on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like
its someone else's fault.
ITS YOURS.
Bubba


Hello, Troll.

There's one company in this area that services my brand. In June I
paid them $400 for a board I could have bought for $150. I figured
meeting their price was like paying a laywer a retainer. If I had
an emergency, they'd know I was a customer.

When my furnace wouldn't burn, I didn't think about the internet.
I phoned the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cell phone
number. I called that number and got another machine. I explained
that my house was cold and I needed an ignitor. I sat in the cold
by the phone two hours, waiting.

I would have been willing to wait until Monday or later to get
heat, but it looked as these people were not even willing to talk
to me. Did I go shopping online? No, I went around the
neighborhood asking if anyone could recommend an HVAC man. I
didn't get a single lead.

I returned home and found that somebody had hung up on my answering
machine. I called friends and relatives. The only recommendation
I got was for a part-time HVAC man who lived 50 miles away and
didn't deal with my brand.

That's when I went online. Four days later I phoned the HVAC
company where I used to be a generous customer. The woman
recognized my voice and said she had returned my call Saturday but
got my answering machine. That was her excuse for not being
willing to speak to me when I needed help.

The high markup I paid her company was money down the toilet.
Judging by the number of recommendations I got, arrogance like
yours and hers must be very common in the HVAC industry. I'm glad
I found a reliable, helpful dealer on the internet. He's a prince
among HVAC men.


Still just more lines of utter nonsense.
$400 for a board that you could have gotten for $150. Are you
forgetting that you didnt know it was the board until the service man
diagnosed it and had the part on his truck? You didnt know what was
wrong and you didnt have that part in your basement stock, did you?
You dont really think that a company on the internet is going to sell
you a board for the same price that a hvac company is going to charge
you when they have it on their truck and will install it with a
warranty do you?
On top of that, you probably called him on a weekend. Do you think we
all sit next to the phone on the weekend waiting for your call so we
can spring from our chair and rush right out to your bull**** call. Id
bet you dont even service your unit and only wait till it breaks
before you start calling and begging someone to come to your rescue.
Now you say you went walking the neighborhood and asking everyone if
they had a service company they would recommend? You are so full of
****. You never did that. What? You trying to tell me that you live in
a town where everyone has a wood stove to heat their home?
I think you are a whinner. I hope you enjoy your internet company. It
should be interesting when your furnace breaks on a cold winter nite
and you call your internet company for service.
Have fun,
Bubba
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
Colbyt
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"CBHVAC" wrote in message
...

Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install

one
with a warranty....
I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a
feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken.



Normally I never disagree with you, CBHVAC because you do offer some good
free advice now and then. I know the cost on them is 15-20$ but is that what
you sell them for "off the truck"? Around here most of the hvac guy double
the msrp and sell them for about $75 plus the service call charge.

Colbyt


  #34   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Well...if the second ignitor is good you now have a spare....in a
couple of years the current ignitor will go bad...maybe sooner if you
didnt get it put back just right.

I worked for the gas company years ago and we had to go out and inspect
gas furnace installations....I remember this one company always had a
lot of trouble with the hot surface ignitors in their furnaces being
broken even before the furnace was put into use. They would be broken
by the rough handling the furnaces received from their installing
personell....dropping the furnaces etc.....

silicon carbide is fragile.....and the problem with oil from your
fingers is this....it causes the silicon carbide to heat up at a
different rate where the oil is....it makes it not heat evenly and this
puts stress on the fragile material.

  #35   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Well...if the second ignitor is good you now have a spare....in a
couple of years the current ignitor will go bad...maybe sooner if you
didnt get it put back just right.

I worked for the gas company years ago and we had to go out and inspect
gas furnace installations....I remember this one company always had a
lot of trouble with the hot surface ignitors in their furnaces being
broken even before the furnace was put into use. They would be broken
by the rough handling the furnaces received from their installing
personell....dropping the furnaces etc.....

silicon carbide is fragile.....and the problem with oil from your
fingers is this....it causes the silicon carbide to heat up at a
different rate where the oil is....it makes it not heat evenly and this
puts stress on the fragile material.



  #36   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
CBHVAC
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts


"Colbyt" wrote in message
news:HYrkf.619817$xm3.495764@attbi_s21...

"CBHVAC" wrote in message
...

Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install

one
with a warranty....
I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a
feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken.



Normally I never disagree with you, CBHVAC because you do offer some good
free advice now and then. I know the cost on them is 15-20$ but is that
what
you sell them for "off the truck"? Around here most of the hvac guy
double
the msrp and sell them for about $75 plus the service call charge.

Colbyt



It depends....really. Some of those damn things cost more than $25...but
installed?
Depends...if its a simple one, reach in and pull a 1/4 inch screw, unplug a
molex and reverse, and out in 15 minutes...ive done it for free for some
folks...pay for the part...my cost, and remember me when its something
else..
Off the truck, under $20 for the cheaper ones....and if its just a quickie
like that..under $75....
Ceramic ones...maybe $30..not installed, but about the same installed if
there is one that can be put in the same place...with the same base.
I dont use that flat rate ****....sometimes, more often than not, it screws
the customer.


  #37   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

This is Turtle.

The Old price setting theory is to double any price under $30.00 and
60% on Parts over $30.00 up to $100.00 then 30% on parts over $100.00.
Now these prices are for to mark up Wholesale parts.

TURTLE

  #38   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
thrugoodmarshall
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:


Also mail fraud is a federal offence in the US.

That's *mail* fraud. OP specified UPS.

Cornell's got a convenient copy of the code (Title 39) at
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...sup_01_39.html

or you could download it from the house
http://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml

Understanding and applying it, however, is another story. I understand
people go to special schools just for that, and make entire careers of it.

Strange.
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

The problem with Sawney's theory that this "mom and pop" internet
vendor is running a scam is this. UPS is not stupid. How many claims
for shipping damage do you think UPS will pay for one shipper before
they either refuse further shipments or call the cops for fraud?
Sure, a vendor could get away with it once in awhile, but it's kind of
hard to believe they could do it enough to make it worthwhile.

What to do is obvious. It's up to the shipper to pursue the claim with
UPS. Send them an email telling them that. And notify the credit card
company that you are disputing the unauthorized charge for the second
item, as well as a refund for the first legitimate transaction because
the item was returned.

  #40   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Sawney Beane
 
Posts: n/a
Default UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts

Bubba wrote:


Still just more lines of utter nonsense.
$400 for a board that you could have gotten for $150. Are you
forgetting that you didnt know it was the board until the service man
diagnosed it and had the part on his truck? You didnt know what was
wrong and you didnt have that part in your basement stock, did you?


You seem to have difficulty reading. If I'm any judge of character
it's because your mind is chock full of pure knowledge.

I told the service man what the problem was. He asked me how I
knew. I told him about the thumb on the transformer. He told me I
was right.

You dont really think that a company on the internet is going to sell
you a board for the same price that a hvac company is going to charge
you when they have it on their truck and will install it with a
warranty do you?


The service man told me he'd have to order it and his price would
probably be a lot higher than what I'd found.

On top of that, you probably called him on a weekend. Do you think we
all sit next to the phone on the weekend waiting for your call so we
can spring from our chair and rush right out to your bull**** call.


I called him early on a Wednesday afternoon. He worked me in about
the middle of the next morning.

It was hilarious. My neighbor's air had gone out Sunday. He'd
called Monday. The reason the service man got to me in less than
24 hours was that he had to come to the neighborhood anyway, for my
neighbor, who had called 72 hours ago.

He came to my house first! My neighbor didn't think that was fair.
Then we shot the breeze half an hour as my neighbor paced his yard
across the street. Then the service man drove off without stopping
at my neighbor's! Eventually he came back and told my neighbor it
would cost him $8,000 and he couldn't get to it for a few days.

My neighbor was already pretty mad, so I lied. I told him the
service man had fixed mine and the temperature in my house was so
low I had to wipe condensation from the outside of my windows to
see out.

Id
bet you dont even service your unit and only wait till it breaks
before you start calling and begging someone to come to your rescue.


I used to have it serviced. I'd paid $300 for a new board in 1992
and again in 1995. When the board failed in 1998, I realized if I
wanted it done right, I'd better do it myself.

I could see that the factory service center had used zinc chloride
when they replaced the SCR. They hadn't washed it off. It had
drawn moisture from the humid air, which created acid, which ate
the traces. I was amazed at the cascade effect of the malfunction:
SCR, relay, rectifiers, snap diodes, a 32-pin DIP IC, and stuff I
don't remember.

The manufacturer treated the schematic as a secret, but as you
probably know, you can go online to get the specs for the
components, then use a dual-trace scope to find the problems. My
repair certainly outlasted the factory repairs for 1/10 the cash
outlay.

Now you say you went walking the neighborhood and asking everyone if
they had a service company they would recommend? You are so full of
****. You never did that. What? You trying to tell me that you live in
a town where everyone has a wood stove to heat their home?


I live in a town where people haven't had good experiences with
HVAC service.

I think you are a whinner.


I think you're a winner, too! If I'm any judge of character, your
contempt comes from having to deal with people who know much less
than you. I'll bet you do first-rate work. If you would post your
phone number, I could recommend you to my neighbors.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Desperate for advice on replacing dead 255K BTU furnace in 3200 sq foot house [email protected] Home Repair 24 November 14th 05 08:44 PM
Time for a new furnace? Brian E. Clark Home Repair 5 September 22nd 05 06:09 PM
Thick accordion-type furnace filters - can I retrofit furnace for standard? bryanska Home Ownership 1 August 9th 05 10:24 PM
York Furnace Problem HvacTech2 Home Repair 14 February 21st 05 01:48 AM
Furnace Problem...HELP! torque Home Repair 5 January 6th 04 02:24 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"