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#1
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to
parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat more than ten days. I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle. Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible. On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal shock. NASA uses it. The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers. Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete, for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it. Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived. In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS. It gave a phone number. The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of this information had been on his informative website, why the manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material with a gritty surface. I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could send another. They replied that they were sending another. I replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was reading my message and would cancel the shipment. It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver. It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I thought the broken one must have come from the factory with invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times while monitoring current draw. He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem that could be fixed easily. I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45 AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another because I already had one. At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30. In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have charged my credit card without authorization. I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:58:18 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote: Countless lines of absolute blibber blabber crazy **** spewed forth by Sawney Beane deleted I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and start calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue about. You got exactly what you paid for. That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time. Cant really believe I read it all. Bubba |
#3
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Sawney Beane" wrote in message ... I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. If this is a true story, I hope they kissed you because they sure as heck ............. Find a local supplier and buy what you need. Fight the CC battles and get your money back. And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. Colbyt |
#4
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
In article ,
Sawney Beane wrote: I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat more than ten days. I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle. Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible. On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal shock. NASA uses it. The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers. Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete, for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it. Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived. In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS. It gave a phone number. The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of this information had been on his informative website, why the manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material with a gritty surface. I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could send another. They replied that they were sending another. I replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was reading my message and would cancel the shipment. It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver. It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I thought the broken one must have come from the factory with invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times while monitoring current draw. He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem that could be fixed easily. I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45 AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another because I already had one. At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30. In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have charged my credit card without authorization. I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return it. Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and sent certified mail. Next time buy from a local reputable company. -- Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L |
#6
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return it. Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and sent certified mail. Next time buy from a local reputable company. -- Good advice Rich. Sawney, sorry but i fell asleep somewhere between the 5th and 14th paragraph, did you happen to say who you purchased the ignitor from? Please let us know. |
#7
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Sawney Beane" wrote in message
... I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. This is true. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. Credit Card company On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal shock. NASA uses it. The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers. Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete, for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it. So, it was OK leaving the factory. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS. It gave a phone number. Yes, that is the way UPS handles things. It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I thought the broken one must have come from the factory with invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times while monitoring current draw. Above you said it showed that QC tested it. Why do you insist on blaming the factory when in fact they did test it? He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. OK, the guy is trying to make things right. At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30. Some confusion here. Just refuse the package. I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? You said you already bought one local. It is just your non-professional opinion that the seller is wrong, but evidence you posted points to the contrary. Send it back, refuse it, get a credit and move on with life. You were wrong, IMO to accuse the company of malpractice. |
#8
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Sawney Beane wrote:
I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? Contact the credit card company - tell them you suspect fraud. Same with UPS. Be aware if you go into laborious detail you will probably be considered a crank. Ultimately you should have learned that you don't gamble on important things like a heated house to save a few bucks. There are plenty of other places to save money that don't have the consequences. R |
#9
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Colbyt" wrote in message news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After a split second of heating, no oil. http://www.supco.com/images/pdfprodu...s/Ignitors.pdf |
#10
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Sawney Beane" wrote in message ... I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. deleting a bunch whining and sniveling Trying to be a cheapskate and buy second-hand **** when you should have gotten it locally (and maybe paid a couple bucks more). Face it: You ****ed up. Pay the money to get the right part from a repuable company and then shut the **** up. Lesson learned, tight ass..... |
#11
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Red Neckerson" wrote in message news:NGNjf.21833$KZ2.12665@trnddc05... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message ... I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. deleting a bunch whining and sniveling Trying to be a cheapskate and buy second-hand **** when you should have gotten it locally (and maybe paid a couple bucks more). Face it: You ****ed up. Pay the money to get the right part from a repuable company Did you mean reputable? It WAS a reputable company! I mean, he DID find it on the internet, and the internet is ALWAYS right....... |
#12
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Terry" wrote in message news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72... "Colbyt" wrote in message news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After a split second of heating, no oil. I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told that the oil causes overheating. Colbyt |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Bubba" wrote in message Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and start calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue about. You got exactly what you paid for. That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time. Cant really believe I read it all. Bubba Why don't you go back to alt.hvac with the rest of the losers there. You are of no use here, it seems. Bob |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It
has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to buy parts on the internet. Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to save a little money. Stretch (HVAC contractor in South Carolina) |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Stretch" wrote in message oups.com... Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to buy parts on the internet. Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to save a little money. Stretch (HVAC contractor in South Carolina) Now that's a much better presentation! Bob |
#16
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Stretch wrote:
Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to buy parts on the internet. Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to save a little money. Stretch (HVAC contractor in South Carolina) Like you, the local HVAC people seemed to think I should leave my furnace off indefinitely. I turned to the internet to keep from catching cold. I would have been glad to pay more locally. Last summer lightning hit my chimney and killed my AC. The 24V 3A fuse was blown on the computer board in the furnace. To isolate the problem, I disconnected the 24V leads going to the thermostat and put in a 5A fuse. I would be standing by the power switch and the bigger fuse would be less likely to blow instantly. I found there was a short on the board and called the HVAC company. I had a stool ready so the repairman wouldn't get his butt cold and dirty. He expressed gratitude for the stool. Then he saw the disconnected wires and chewed me out. It seemed to go on for ever. With my lifetime of experience getting into trouble, I didn't argue because that would not have assured him at all. He said the trouble was that HVAC men don't neccessarily adhere to color codes, so he had no idea which wire went where. I said I could tell him. He asked how. I said I'd made notes and diagrams of the wires I'd removed, but it probably wouldn't be necessary to get my notes because I'd used masking tape to fasten the thermostat wires in the proper order. He said he would have done the same. I said I thought lightning had shorted something on the board. He asked how I knew. I said the transformer had hummed. He asked how I'd known it was the transformer. I said I'd put my finger on it. He tried it and agreed. He said he needed to hook things up anyway. I told him the order of the blower leads and checked my notes to be sure. This time the humming stopped. I said the short had probably burned open. He agreed. I told him I'd rebuilt the computer board after a flood seven years ago. I said finding sources for the components had been a hassle. He said that he simply replaced boards because a factory instructor had told him a DMM would zap the semiconductors. I said I thought that information was obsolete. I said it was true when I had started, in the days of VOMs and germanium, but nowadays it seemed all a tech had to watch out for was static. He shook my hand and apologized for getting mad. I would have been mad, too. I'd left the wires undone because I hadn't realized wiring could confuse a pro. I was glad I'd met him because I found him honest, competent, and reliable. I could have gotten a new board through the internet for $150. He quoted $400 and a wait of just as many days. I bought from him because I trusted him. I said I'd like one of those diagnosing boards because it would be good to be able to phone and tell him what was wrong if I ever had trouble. He agreed that it would be a good choice for me. Two weeks ago the board said it was an ignition failure. One component on the burner had one thin wire. The other had two fat wires. A sensor wouldn't need two fat wires, so that was the ignitor. It read open on a DMM. I called the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cellphone number in case of emergency. I was pretty cold, so I dialed it. That machine said they'd get back to me. After sitting by the phone two hours in a cold house, it was hard to unbend my legs to stand up. Apparently they were unwilling to speak to a hypothermic man on a Saturday. I wouldn't be able to check until Monday, and I was afraid the ignitor would have to be ordered, like my computer board. I wanted to be sure I could get the part Monday, but nobody I knew could think of a place that sold furnace parts. The uncertainty that I could get it locally drove me to the internet. |
#17
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Colbyt wrote:
"Terry" wrote in message news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72... "Colbyt" wrote in message news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After a split second of heating, no oil. I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told that the oil causes overheating. Colbyt It made me suspicious that the warning, apparently intended to be read after the customer had handled the ignitor, didn't say *why* touching it would cause failure. I knew skin oil would break a quartz bulb by causing it to absorb radiant energy unevenly, but that wouldn't apply to an ignitor. When I bought one locally, the distributor said it was skin oil. I suspected that was a myth to explain why some ignitors soon failed. One manufacturer sells nitride converstion kits because repairmen get so many callbacks after replacing crystalized silicon carbide ignitors. I think the failure process begins when stress, shock, or vibration causes a tiny surface crack. If it takes time and perhaps thermal cycles for the crack to grow, the cause is unclear when it fails. |
#18
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Rich Greenberg wrote:
In article , Sawney Beane wrote: I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? Tell UPS that you are not accepting the shipment and they should return it. I'll do that. I think probably this one is okay, but I don't need it now and don't trust the vendor. Dispute the charge with the CC company. This MUST be in writing and sent certified mail. I don't think certified mail is necessary. I had couple of problems several years ago. My bank agreed and I got chargebacks. This month, for the first time since then, I wrote to my bank about another charge I considered fraudulent. I've gotten a chargeback. It's a powerful weapon because the offending company must pay a big penalty to the CC company. Now another problem in the same month? These things must come in clusters. Next time buy from a local reputable company. This is the first problem I've had with a small, unknown company. I think it's the big companies who have the MBAs who see how much they can improve the bottom line by bilking CC customers. Most customers won't complain. If the other shoe falls and chargebacks spoil the bottom line, those MBAs expect to be long gone. |
#19
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Sawney Beane" wrote in message ... On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal shock. NASA uses it. The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers. Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete, for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it. So, it was OK leaving the factory. That's what the vendor says, but I don't see how the damage could have occurred subsequently in the foam package. Heat marks prove only that it was cycled once, which would not necessarily have shown cracking. Now that the vendor has sent me an ignitor that I have five times asked him not to send, I mistrust him. I think the factory tested it properly and discarded it. Anyway, it's certainly not glass as the vendor said. It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I thought the broken one must have come from the factory with invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times while monitoring current draw. Above you said it showed that QC tested it. Why do you insist on blaming the factory when in fact they did test it? If the vendor was honest, the manufacturer had failed to catch these cracks. As I said, repeatedly cycling an ignitor would cause any cracks to grow and become evident by monitoring current. If the vendor was honest, it seemed the manufacturer hadn't been so thorough. He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. OK, the guy is trying to make things right. By sending me something I had told him five times I didn't want? At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30. Some confusion here. Just refuse the package. Confusion? I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? You said you already bought one local. What's your point? It is just your non-professional opinion that the seller is wrong, Should I rely on the opinion of a professional who says a DMM will wreck a semiconductor or skin oil will wreck an HSI? If the manufacturer said these ignitors often shattered when double boxed and well padded, that would be significant. If the manufacturer said his QC was ineffectual, that would be significant. If UPS said very few of this vendor's ignitor customers had problems, that would be significant. but evidence you posted points to the contrary. What evidence did I post that says UPS broke it? |
#20
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Simple answer
Sawney Beane wrote:
I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. UPS should have been yoru hint. Its not yoru problem its the sellers problem. Call the credit card company and ask the procedure to deal with not paying the seller. Do what they say. Call seller and tell him to kiss yoru ass. why can't I type 'your'??? -- Respectfully, CL Gilbert "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief and a robber." GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D |
#21
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
If you suspect fraud, write to:
1. Your State's Attorney general. 2. The dispute department of your credit card company. Document what you just told us. Provide details (times, dates, names of who you spoke to, copies of orders, etc.) Say in the letter to your ccard company (copy the vendor & the AG) "The vendor has failed to fulfill his side of the purchase contract (document this)" "I have made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the vendor (document this)" "The vendor has failed to act in good faith (document this)" "Therefore, I dispute charges on date [xxx] from vendor [xxx] in the amount of [xxx]" Sign and date. Use certified mail if you want a record of it, but you don't need to. If these things are true and you have documentation to back them up, you should have no problem. Assuming that you acted within your ccard company's time window. Typically ccard company says "OK, you said he ripped you off; we believe you; here's the money back and we won't pay him. Hope you didn't lie, because then you committed fraud. We're not involved; just doing what you told us to do." Within the time limit, it's no risk to the ccard company because they haven't paid him yet. Did you use paypal? Pay by check? Very little recourse here, and now you know WHY the vendor won't take a ccard! |
#22
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a
known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions. However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with UPS. Sawney Beane wrote: I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. |
#23
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
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#24
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
In my business I ship and receive. The UPS customer is the shipper, the
receiver is the consignee. Therefore UPS doesn't have much interest in talking to the person receiving the package. Bob "Mike Berger" wrote in message ... There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions. However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with UPS. Sawney Beane wrote: I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. |
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:36:55 -0800, "Bob"
wrote: "Bubba" wrote in message Find a reputable licensed hvac contractor in your area and start calling them and stop futzing with **** you have no clue about. You got exactly what you paid for. That had to be the funniest post Ive read in a long time. Cant really believe I read it all. Bubba Why don't you go back to alt.hvac with the rest of the losers there. You are of no use here, it seems. Bob Wanna make me...............Bobby? Bubba |
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:53:35 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote: Stretch wrote: Don't touch the surface of the Hot Surface Ignitor with your skin. It has been known for at least 20 years that will lead to premature failure. If you don't know what you are doing, you would be better off hiring a contractor to fix it for you. It would certainly be faster and you would get a warranty as well. If you want to save LOTS of money, turn the furnace off and leave it off. Then you won't need to buy parts on the internet. Not trying to be a harda--, just surprised what some people will do to save a little money. Stretch (HVAC contractor in South Carolina) Like you, the local HVAC people seemed to think I should leave my furnace off indefinitely. I turned to the internet to keep from catching cold. I would have been glad to pay more locally. Last summer lightning hit my chimney and killed my AC. The 24V 3A fuse was blown on the computer board in the furnace. To isolate the problem, I disconnected the 24V leads going to the thermostat and put in a 5A fuse. I would be standing by the power switch and the bigger fuse would be less likely to blow instantly. I found there was a short on the board and called the HVAC company. I had a stool ready so the repairman wouldn't get his butt cold and dirty. He expressed gratitude for the stool. Then he saw the disconnected wires and chewed me out. It seemed to go on for ever. With my lifetime of experience getting into trouble, I didn't argue because that would not have assured him at all. He said the trouble was that HVAC men don't neccessarily adhere to color codes, so he had no idea which wire went where. I said I could tell him. He asked how. I said I'd made notes and diagrams of the wires I'd removed, but it probably wouldn't be necessary to get my notes because I'd used masking tape to fasten the thermostat wires in the proper order. He said he would have done the same. I said I thought lightning had shorted something on the board. He asked how I knew. I said the transformer had hummed. He asked how I'd known it was the transformer. I said I'd put my finger on it. He tried it and agreed. He said he needed to hook things up anyway. I told him the order of the blower leads and checked my notes to be sure. This time the humming stopped. I said the short had probably burned open. He agreed. I told him I'd rebuilt the computer board after a flood seven years ago. I said finding sources for the components had been a hassle. He said that he simply replaced boards because a factory instructor had told him a DMM would zap the semiconductors. I said I thought that information was obsolete. I said it was true when I had started, in the days of VOMs and germanium, but nowadays it seemed all a tech had to watch out for was static. He shook my hand and apologized for getting mad. I would have been mad, too. I'd left the wires undone because I hadn't realized wiring could confuse a pro. I was glad I'd met him because I found him honest, competent, and reliable. I could have gotten a new board through the internet for $150. He quoted $400 and a wait of just as many days. I bought from him because I trusted him. I said I'd like one of those diagnosing boards because it would be good to be able to phone and tell him what was wrong if I ever had trouble. He agreed that it would be a good choice for me. Two weeks ago the board said it was an ignition failure. One component on the burner had one thin wire. The other had two fat wires. A sensor wouldn't need two fat wires, so that was the ignitor. It read open on a DMM. I called the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cellphone number in case of emergency. I was pretty cold, so I dialed it. That machine said they'd get back to me. After sitting by the phone two hours in a cold house, it was hard to unbend my legs to stand up. Apparently they were unwilling to speak to a hypothermic man on a Saturday. I wouldn't be able to check until Monday, and I was afraid the ignitor would have to be ordered, like my computer board. I wanted to be sure I could get the part Monday, but nobody I knew could think of a place that sold furnace parts. The uncertainty that I could get it locally drove me to the internet. So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like its someone else's fault. ITS YOURS. Bubba |
#27
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:17:28 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote: Colbyt wrote: "Terry" wrote in message news:_mNjf.587120$x96.426589@attbi_s72... "Colbyt" wrote in message news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After a split second of heating, no oil. I am far from an expert in the field. Repeating what I was told after a very premature failure that was not repeated after wearing gloves. Was told that the oil causes overheating. Colbyt It made me suspicious that the warning, apparently intended to be read after the customer had handled the ignitor, didn't say *why* touching it would cause failure. I knew skin oil would break a quartz bulb by causing it to absorb radiant energy unevenly, but that wouldn't apply to an ignitor. When I bought one locally, the distributor said it was skin oil. I suspected that was a myth to explain why some ignitors soon failed. You're too suspiciuos for your own good. They fail after 5 years instead of after 10. Just stop touching them already. Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also. |
#28
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Terry wrote:
"Colbyt" wrote in message news:7MMjf.592796$_o.586930@attbi_s71... "Sawney Beane" wrote in message And a very important side note. Wear gloves when you handle the igniter. The oils from your hand can cause a premature failure if any part of the "ceramic" is touched. Learned that one the hard way. I've never had one fail due to touching it. Rough handling, yes I can't see a little skin oil doing anything to the silicone carbide. After a split second of heating, no oil. http://www.supco.com/images/pdfprodu...s/Ignitors.pdf Terry, thanks a lot! The pdf indicates that it's widely believed that a visual inspection will show whether an ignitor is operable. I now believe my online dealer is honest. White-Rodgers has developed a nitride converstion kit because HVAC men get so many callbacks on installations of silicon carbide ignitors. If the professionals can screw in a light bulb without breaking it, I think they can install an ignitor without damaging it. The skin-oil myth must be an attempt to explain failures where no other cause is known. Is Supco the only company that tries to expose myths about checking and handling ignitors? If other companies are complacement about the misinformation, maybe they're also complacent about quality control. |
#29
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Bubba wrote:
So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like its someone else's fault. ITS YOURS. Bubba Hello, Troll. There's one company in this area that services my brand. In June I paid them $400 for a board I could have bought for $150. I figured meeting their price was like paying a laywer a retainer. If I had an emergency, they'd know I was a customer. When my furnace wouldn't burn, I didn't think about the internet. I phoned the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cell phone number. I called that number and got another machine. I explained that my house was cold and I needed an ignitor. I sat in the cold by the phone two hours, waiting. I would have been willing to wait until Monday or later to get heat, but it looked as these people were not even willing to talk to me. Did I go shopping online? No, I went around the neighborhood asking if anyone could recommend an HVAC man. I didn't get a single lead. I returned home and found that somebody had hung up on my answering machine. I called friends and relatives. The only recommendation I got was for a part-time HVAC man who lived 50 miles away and didn't deal with my brand. That's when I went online. Four days later I phoned the HVAC company where I used to be a generous customer. The woman recognized my voice and said she had returned my call Saturday but got my answering machine. That was her excuse for not being willing to speak to me when I needed help. The high markup I paid her company was money down the toilet. Judging by the number of recommendations I got, arrogance like yours and hers must be very common in the HVAC industry. I'm glad I found a reliable, helpful dealer on the internet. He's a prince among HVAC men. |
#30
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Until November 29, I assumed he had not known the part was bad. I
thought it was wrong to blame UPS and wondered why he insisted that his visual inspection proved it had been good. As Terry documented above, a visual inspection means nothing. If he'd made the recommended electrical check, he would have known it was cracked. Then he shipped me another ignitor in spite of my telling him repeatedly that I didn't want or need it. November 23, when I said the first one was broken, his wife immediately said they were sending another. I emailed her and talked to her on the phone, asking her not to send it because I knew where to get one locally. She agreed and none was sent. Six days later, at 5:45 AM November 29, without my requesting one, he emailed me to say he was sending one. When I read it at 1:30, I immediately replied asking him not to send any. At 4:30 UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up my package. When I read it at 6:30, I phoned and left a message identifying myself and asking them please not to send it. At 8:30 UPS picked it up. To call that a mixup stretches my credibility a long way. If it were an honest mistake, wouldn't he have emailed me in the three days since? His shipments include a paper with the UPS phone number telling customers it's up to them to contact UPS and claim damages. He leads the receiver to expect payment from UPS. Is it a fact that a claim by the receiver will result in a payment to the shipper? Do you believe that all this time he has been ignorant of this? Mike Berger wrote: There's no evidence in what you wrote that somebody sent you a known bad part. You're making an awful lot of assumptions. However, it is up to the shipper to make any damage claims with UPS. Sawney Beane wrote: I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. |
#31
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Sawney Beane" wrote in message ... I seem to be dealing with an online retailer who has access to parts that failed factory QC tests. His goods arrive with a note saying if the part arrives broken, it's the fault of UPS and it's the buyer's responsibility to contact UPS. Then he sends another even if the buyer has repeatedly asked him not to, by phone and email. As a result, he buys one part wholesale and bills the buyer twice for his retail price and shipping. I'd like to know who to contact. Here's what happened. Saturday, November 19, my house was cold because the hot-surface ignitor in the furnace had cracked after fifteen years of thermal shocks. If on Monday I learned I would have to order one, Thanksgiving delays might leave me without heat more than ten days. I ordered one immediately online from a mom-and-pop business. They advertised a sale on the model I needed, although the discount was small. It would arrive the day before Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, neighbors and I tried to figure out what the filament was made of. As the ignitor was useless, I was not at all gentle. Like an iron alloy, it was very strong and somewhat flexible. On the internet I learned that the material is recrystalized silicon carbide, known for its strength and resistance to thermal shock. NASA uses it. The package arrived the 23rd, covered with "FRAGILE!" stickers. Inside, crumpled newsprint surrounded the manufacturer's box, which had no such warning. In the box, the ignitor was surrounded by foam rubber, a common precaution against being dropped on concrete, for example. Heat marks showed that Quality Control had tested it. Those unexpected "FRAGILE!" labels scared me. I carried it to the table as gently as a thin-shelled hen's egg. When I opened my hand, I saw that the filament was broken in three places. I was certain a shock had cracked it before it arrived. In the dealer's box I found a folded warning tucked in at the side where the newsprint had hidden it. It wrongly called the filament glass and said it was so fragile that the customer shouldn't touch it. It said he'd broken a few himself, but very few were broken in shipping. If one arrived broken, it wasn't his fault because he had inspected it, and the customer should put in a claim with UPS. It gave a phone number. The warning then gave several reasons it would be the customer's fault if the ignitor failed soon. I wondered why the warning had not been on top, where the customer would see it first, why none of this information had been on his informative website, why the manufacturer had included no warning, and why he insisted that his visual inspection guaranteed there had been no cracks in a material with a gritty surface. I emailed them to say it was broken and ask how soon they could send another. They replied that they were sending another. I replied to say I didn't want another because I had found a local outlet. I phoned a few minutes later. The wife said she was reading my message and would cancel the shipment. It wasn't easy reporting the damage to UPS. The process seemed to be for shippers, not receivers. Two days later, November 25, I bought an ignitor and, after six days, had heat. UPS acknowledged my claim. They seemed to think I was the shipper, not the receiver. It seemed to me that the problem was really quality control, and blaming UPS was unfair to consumers as well as UPS. November 28 I emailed the dealer to say my new ignitor was working fine, and I thought the broken one must have come from the factory with invisible cracks. I said I thought the manufacturer could catch such defects with a machine that would cycle ignitors several times while monitoring current draw. He replied that he knew UPS had damaged it because he had inspected it. He was sorry for my trouble and would ship me another one. I replied asking him not to send another one because I already had a new one, but I thought the factory had a quality-control problem that could be fixed easily. I checked my email at 1:30 PM the next day, November 29. At 5:45 AM, he had sent a message informing me he was sending another ignitor. I immediately replied, telling please not to send another because I already had one. At 4:30 PM UPS sent me a message that he had told them to pick up a package he was sending me. At 6:30 PM I read the email and and immediately phoned the dealer. I left a message on his machine stating my name and telling him please not to send the ignitor because I didn't need one. The next day, UPS tracking informed me that he had given them the package two hours later, at 8:30. In 48 hours they have not showed the courtesy to respond to my email or my phone call. They sent me an item which I never asked for and in two phone calls and at least three emails over a period of seven days, I asked them not to send. I presume they have charged my credit card without authorization. I think I am dealing with crooks who have caused me a lot of trouble, misused my credit card, told me to file a claim against a company I don't think is at fault, and caused me to spend Thanksgiving with my house at 48 degrees. What do I do now? Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install one with a warranty.... I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken. |
#32
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:09:08 -0500, Sawney Beane
wrote: Bubba wrote: So many lines of uttter bull****. You are a tight ass and got exactly what you paid for. A good HVAC company will have almost every igniter on their truck (or at least one that will work over the weekend). I can get any parts house to open up at night or on a weekend for a fee of $0 to $100 depending on the store. You are cheap and didnt want to do it and didnt want to pay a guy overtime. Spend the money or go play on the internet. Its you choice. Just stop whinnin and bitchin like its someone else's fault. ITS YOURS. Bubba Hello, Troll. There's one company in this area that services my brand. In June I paid them $400 for a board I could have bought for $150. I figured meeting their price was like paying a laywer a retainer. If I had an emergency, they'd know I was a customer. When my furnace wouldn't burn, I didn't think about the internet. I phoned the HVAC company. Their machine gave me a cell phone number. I called that number and got another machine. I explained that my house was cold and I needed an ignitor. I sat in the cold by the phone two hours, waiting. I would have been willing to wait until Monday or later to get heat, but it looked as these people were not even willing to talk to me. Did I go shopping online? No, I went around the neighborhood asking if anyone could recommend an HVAC man. I didn't get a single lead. I returned home and found that somebody had hung up on my answering machine. I called friends and relatives. The only recommendation I got was for a part-time HVAC man who lived 50 miles away and didn't deal with my brand. That's when I went online. Four days later I phoned the HVAC company where I used to be a generous customer. The woman recognized my voice and said she had returned my call Saturday but got my answering machine. That was her excuse for not being willing to speak to me when I needed help. The high markup I paid her company was money down the toilet. Judging by the number of recommendations I got, arrogance like yours and hers must be very common in the HVAC industry. I'm glad I found a reliable, helpful dealer on the internet. He's a prince among HVAC men. Still just more lines of utter nonsense. $400 for a board that you could have gotten for $150. Are you forgetting that you didnt know it was the board until the service man diagnosed it and had the part on his truck? You didnt know what was wrong and you didnt have that part in your basement stock, did you? You dont really think that a company on the internet is going to sell you a board for the same price that a hvac company is going to charge you when they have it on their truck and will install it with a warranty do you? On top of that, you probably called him on a weekend. Do you think we all sit next to the phone on the weekend waiting for your call so we can spring from our chair and rush right out to your bull**** call. Id bet you dont even service your unit and only wait till it breaks before you start calling and begging someone to come to your rescue. Now you say you went walking the neighborhood and asking everyone if they had a service company they would recommend? You are so full of ****. You never did that. What? You trying to tell me that you live in a town where everyone has a wood stove to heat their home? I think you are a whinner. I hope you enjoy your internet company. It should be interesting when your furnace breaks on a cold winter nite and you call your internet company for service. Have fun, Bubba |
#33
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"CBHVAC" wrote in message ... Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install one with a warranty.... I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken. Normally I never disagree with you, CBHVAC because you do offer some good free advice now and then. I know the cost on them is 15-20$ but is that what you sell them for "off the truck"? Around here most of the hvac guy double the msrp and sell them for about $75 plus the service call charge. Colbyt |
#34
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Well...if the second ignitor is good you now have a spare....in a
couple of years the current ignitor will go bad...maybe sooner if you didnt get it put back just right. I worked for the gas company years ago and we had to go out and inspect gas furnace installations....I remember this one company always had a lot of trouble with the hot surface ignitors in their furnaces being broken even before the furnace was put into use. They would be broken by the rough handling the furnaces received from their installing personell....dropping the furnaces etc..... silicon carbide is fragile.....and the problem with oil from your fingers is this....it causes the silicon carbide to heat up at a different rate where the oil is....it makes it not heat evenly and this puts stress on the fragile material. |
#35
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Well...if the second ignitor is good you now have a spare....in a
couple of years the current ignitor will go bad...maybe sooner if you didnt get it put back just right. I worked for the gas company years ago and we had to go out and inspect gas furnace installations....I remember this one company always had a lot of trouble with the hot surface ignitors in their furnaces being broken even before the furnace was put into use. They would be broken by the rough handling the furnaces received from their installing personell....dropping the furnaces etc..... silicon carbide is fragile.....and the problem with oil from your fingers is this....it causes the silicon carbide to heat up at a different rate where the oil is....it makes it not heat evenly and this puts stress on the fragile material. |
#36
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
"Colbyt" wrote in message news:HYrkf.619817$xm3.495764@attbi_s21... "CBHVAC" wrote in message ... Done what you should have done then....paid the nice man to come install one with a warranty.... I mean....the GOOD replacement ignitors are not that much...and I have a feeling you paid more than $20 for the one you got that was broken. Normally I never disagree with you, CBHVAC because you do offer some good free advice now and then. I know the cost on them is 15-20$ but is that what you sell them for "off the truck"? Around here most of the hvac guy double the msrp and sell them for about $75 plus the service call charge. Colbyt It depends....really. Some of those damn things cost more than $25...but installed? Depends...if its a simple one, reach in and pull a 1/4 inch screw, unplug a molex and reverse, and out in 15 minutes...ive done it for free for some folks...pay for the part...my cost, and remember me when its something else.. Off the truck, under $20 for the cheaper ones....and if its just a quickie like that..under $75.... Ceramic ones...maybe $30..not installed, but about the same installed if there is one that can be put in the same place...with the same base. I dont use that flat rate ****....sometimes, more often than not, it screws the customer. |
#37
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
This is Turtle.
The Old price setting theory is to double any price under $30.00 and 60% on Parts over $30.00 up to $100.00 then 30% on parts over $100.00. Now these prices are for to mark up Wholesale parts. TURTLE |
#38
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:
Also mail fraud is a federal offence in the US. That's *mail* fraud. OP specified UPS. Cornell's got a convenient copy of the code (Title 39) at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...sup_01_39.html or you could download it from the house http://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml Understanding and applying it, however, is another story. I understand people go to special schools just for that, and make entire careers of it. Strange. |
#39
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
The problem with Sawney's theory that this "mom and pop" internet
vendor is running a scam is this. UPS is not stupid. How many claims for shipping damage do you think UPS will pay for one shipper before they either refuse further shipments or call the cops for fraud? Sure, a vendor could get away with it once in awhile, but it's kind of hard to believe they could do it enough to make it worthwhile. What to do is obvious. It's up to the shipper to pursue the claim with UPS. Send them an email telling them that. And notify the credit card company that you are disputing the unauthorized charge for the second item, as well as a refund for the first legitimate transaction because the item was returned. |
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UPS Fraud in Furnace Parts
Bubba wrote:
Still just more lines of utter nonsense. $400 for a board that you could have gotten for $150. Are you forgetting that you didnt know it was the board until the service man diagnosed it and had the part on his truck? You didnt know what was wrong and you didnt have that part in your basement stock, did you? You seem to have difficulty reading. If I'm any judge of character it's because your mind is chock full of pure knowledge. I told the service man what the problem was. He asked me how I knew. I told him about the thumb on the transformer. He told me I was right. You dont really think that a company on the internet is going to sell you a board for the same price that a hvac company is going to charge you when they have it on their truck and will install it with a warranty do you? The service man told me he'd have to order it and his price would probably be a lot higher than what I'd found. On top of that, you probably called him on a weekend. Do you think we all sit next to the phone on the weekend waiting for your call so we can spring from our chair and rush right out to your bull**** call. I called him early on a Wednesday afternoon. He worked me in about the middle of the next morning. It was hilarious. My neighbor's air had gone out Sunday. He'd called Monday. The reason the service man got to me in less than 24 hours was that he had to come to the neighborhood anyway, for my neighbor, who had called 72 hours ago. He came to my house first! My neighbor didn't think that was fair. Then we shot the breeze half an hour as my neighbor paced his yard across the street. Then the service man drove off without stopping at my neighbor's! Eventually he came back and told my neighbor it would cost him $8,000 and he couldn't get to it for a few days. My neighbor was already pretty mad, so I lied. I told him the service man had fixed mine and the temperature in my house was so low I had to wipe condensation from the outside of my windows to see out. Id bet you dont even service your unit and only wait till it breaks before you start calling and begging someone to come to your rescue. I used to have it serviced. I'd paid $300 for a new board in 1992 and again in 1995. When the board failed in 1998, I realized if I wanted it done right, I'd better do it myself. I could see that the factory service center had used zinc chloride when they replaced the SCR. They hadn't washed it off. It had drawn moisture from the humid air, which created acid, which ate the traces. I was amazed at the cascade effect of the malfunction: SCR, relay, rectifiers, snap diodes, a 32-pin DIP IC, and stuff I don't remember. The manufacturer treated the schematic as a secret, but as you probably know, you can go online to get the specs for the components, then use a dual-trace scope to find the problems. My repair certainly outlasted the factory repairs for 1/10 the cash outlay. Now you say you went walking the neighborhood and asking everyone if they had a service company they would recommend? You are so full of ****. You never did that. What? You trying to tell me that you live in a town where everyone has a wood stove to heat their home? I live in a town where people haven't had good experiences with HVAC service. I think you are a whinner. I think you're a winner, too! If I'm any judge of character, your contempt comes from having to deal with people who know much less than you. I'll bet you do first-rate work. If you would post your phone number, I could recommend you to my neighbors. |
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