I have an old side-by-side whose freezer is not getting cold enough.
The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on. I don't know
where the heater is.

There is a spot on the outside of the unit that is always distinctly
warm to the touch. It is on the outside top of the freezer compartment
near the door gasket. The side of the unit near the freezer door gasket
is warm too. Can that be where the heater is?

this old fridge is costing you a bundle to operate. plug it into a
"kill a watt" and you will get an idea of its usage.
i wonder if the gasket heater is trying to demoisturize the door
constantly because it's control is bad. some have an "economy" switch
inside to select it to be off.
i wonder if a good 24 hours of defrosting with a 20" window fan blowing
on it will help.
i wonder if the coils on the floor or back are encased in dirt and need
cleaning. see link for
here's where i look for the best answers for appliances, i love the
samurai genius for these questions, almost all are already answered at:

http://fixitnow.com/

Thanks for your reply.

buffalobill wrote:
this old fridge is costing you a bundle to operate. plug it into a
"kill a watt" and you will get an idea of its usage.
i wonder if the gasket heater is trying to demoisturize the door
constantly because it's control is bad. some have an "economy" switch
inside to select it to be off.

So you are saying that there is such a thing as a gasket heater and that
the heat I feel is not from the defrost heater?

i wonder if a good 24 hours of defrosting with a 20" window fan blowing
on it will help.

I took the panel off the back wall and looked at the evaporator. It was
not iced over. I expected to find the defrost heater in there, but I
didn't really know what to look for. I saw two wires going into the
freezer floor. I found the defrost timer underneath and saw that its
shaft is turning.

i wonder if the coils on the floor or back are encased in dirt and need
cleaning.

The condensor coils on the back are clean. They get warm but not hot.
There is another coil under the drip pan that isn't as clean. Can I
suppose that the one under the drip pan is also a condensor coil that
also happens to boil off the melted frost?

see link for
here's where i look for the best answers for appliances, i love the
samurai genius for these questions, almost all are already answered at:

http://fixitnow.com/

Thanks, I will look at that.

deluxe old big side by sides often had the 3 heaters you describe.

the shaft turning is good but the timer must advance thru its cycle of
off and on incoordination with a sensor. if that frost sensor is not
satisfied you may be in a continuous defrost mode.

pinpoint your make and model and look at your answers

http://fixitnow.com/wp/category/refrigerator-repair/

which will refer you for parts and model illustrations at
http://www.repairclinic.com/0047_4.asp

Matt wrote:
I have an old side-by-side whose freezer is not getting cold enough.
The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on. I don't know
where the heater is.

There is a spot on the outside of the unit that is always distinctly
warm to the touch. It is on the outside top of the freezer compartment
near the door gasket. The side of the unit near the freezer door gasket
is warm too. Can that be where the heater is?

Hi,

I have an old side-by-side

Make, model#?

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on.

The refrigerator would be a lot warmer if it was on all the time.

I don't know
where the heater is.

Defrost heater is embedded in the cooling/evaporator coils...inside the
freezer.

There is a spot on the outside of the unit that is always distinctly
warm to the touch. It is on the outside top of the freezer compartment
near the door gasket. The side of the unit near the freezer door gasket
is warm too

Some fridges have electric heaters around the door opening to warm
these area's up to prevent moisture. Some use a pass of the hot tubing
instead of a heater.

http://www.applianceaid.com/yoderloop.html

The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

http://www.applianceaid.com/frig_notcold.html

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

Appliance Repair Aid wrote:
Matt wrote:

I have an old side-by-side whose freezer is not getting cold enough.
The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on. I don't know
where the heater is.

There is a spot on the outside of the unit that is always distinctly
warm to the touch. It is on the outside top of the freezer compartment
near the door gasket. The side of the unit near the freezer door gasket
is warm too. Can that be where the heater is?


Hi,

Thanks, jeff.

I have an old side-by-side


Make, model#?

Philco Ford No Frost 17 ("Pt. #78-3730-1") purchased ca. 1970. Please
don't merely laugh or scoff. Objective information on energy efficiency
is welcome.

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on.


The refrigerator would be a lot warmer if it was on all the time.

Warmer than what? I haven't paid much attention to the fridge side.
Mostly I've been watching the freezer. Yesterday I blocked off the
vents between the two sides to keep the cold air in the freezer. It
seems that that brought the freezer temps down somewhat (now mostly in
the teens).

How common would it be for the defrost thermostat to cause the heater to
stay on too much? The timer shows signs of working properly.

I don't know
where the heater is.


Defrost heater is embedded in the cooling/evaporator coils...inside the
freezer.

Is it always an electric heater? I expected an electric heater but
didn't see one. How do I tell whether it's on?


Some fridges have electric heaters around the door

Thanks, I see. I turned the switch from "High Humidity" to "Low
Humidity", and now the warm spots are gone.

The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.


http://www.applianceaid.com/frig_notcold.html

Should I deal with the freezer-not-cold problem first?


jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

On side by sides, the defrost heater is typically inside the freezer. Behind
the back wall. Down low. Often two heaters, one low and one center.

By the edge of the door is another heater which helps reduce condensation.
Something else is the problem. Might be dirty coils, bad fan, low freon, or
many other problems.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Matt" wrote in message
...
I have an old side-by-side whose freezer is not getting cold enough.
The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

One of my guesses is that the defrost heater is always on. I don't know
where the heater is.

There is a spot on the outside of the unit that is always distinctly
warm to the touch. It is on the outside top of the freezer compartment
near the door gasket. The side of the unit near the freezer door gasket
is warm too. Can that be where the heater is?

"Matt" wrote in message
...

So you are saying that there is such a thing as a gasket heater and that
the heat I feel is not from the defrost heater?
CY: Yes!

i wonder if a good 24 hours of defrosting with a 20" window fan blowing
on it will help.

I took the panel off the back wall and looked at the evaporator. It was
not iced over.
CY: Then you don't have a defrost problem.

I expected to find the defrost heater in there, but I
didn't really know what to look for. I saw two wires going into the
freezer floor. I found the defrost timer underneath and saw that its
shaft is turning.

i wonder if the coils on the floor or back are encased in dirt and need
cleaning.

The condensor coils on the back are clean. They get warm but not hot.
CY: While the refrig is running, the coils on the back should get too hot to
touch (along the top of the coils) and room temp near the bottom. Sounds
like your unit is low on freon.


There is another coil under the drip pan that isn't as clean. Can I
suppose that the one under the drip pan is also a condensor coil that
also happens to boil off the melted frost?
CY: The drip pan is only for liquid water, but a coil through the condensate
water helps evaporate the water out of the condensate pan.

CY: From what you've written, it's low on freon. There are a few
refrigerator repairmen who are willing to juice up an old refrigerator. I am
one of these. Since it's probably the old R-12 freon, the techie guy would
probably have to recover the old freon and pump in some new R-409A or other
refrigerant which is currently available. Side by sides run several hundred
dollars to purchase outright. So, they are worth juicing up. It will
probably take several phone calls to find a refrigerator guy willing to
juice it up.

Wonder how many appliance guys do juice ups any more?

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Appliance Repair Aid" wrote in message
oups.com...

Matt wrote:
I have an old side-by-side whose freezer is not getting cold enough.

http://www.applianceaid.com/yoderloop.html

The coldest it gets is single digits, but most of the time it is in the
20's and even the 30's.

http://www.applianceaid.com/frig_notcold.html

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

The two are definitely related.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Matt" wrote in message
...

Should I deal with the freezer-not-cold problem first?

Stormin Mormon wrote:

CY: From what you've written, it's low on freon. There are a few
refrigerator repairmen who are willing to juice up an old refrigerator. I am
one of these. Since it's probably the old R-12 freon, the techie guy would
probably have to recover the old freon and pump in some new R-409A or other
refrigerant which is currently available. Side by sides run several hundred
dollars to purchase outright. So, they are worth juicing up. It will
probably take several phone calls to find a refrigerator guy willing to
juice it up.

Can you give a ballpark guess as to what it would cost?

I typically get about $125 for a juice up. No clue what anyone else gets.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Matt" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

CY: From what you've written, it's low on freon. There are a few
refrigerator repairmen who are willing to juice up an old refrigerator. I
am
one of these. Since it's probably the old R-12 freon, the techie guy would
probably have to recover the old freon and pump in some new R-409A or
other
refrigerant which is currently available. Side by sides run several
hundred
dollars to purchase outright. So, they are worth juicing up. It will
probably take several phone calls to find a refrigerator guy willing to
juice it up.

Can you give a ballpark guess as to what it would cost?

Matt wrote:


Hi,

Philco Ford No Frost 17 ("Pt. #78-3730-1") purchased ca. 1970

An oldie!

Warmer than what?

Electric defrost heater staying on all the time could cook the food
inside....the heater would constantly defrost the coolign coils and
likely little cooling would occur.

How common would it be for the defrost thermostat to cause the heater to
stay on too much? The timer shows signs of working properly.

Fairly common....this would only occur during the defrost mode and not
during the running/cooling modes. High spikes in the freezer temp
during the defrost mode could very well be a faulty defrost thermostat.
If the freezer was a min of 1/2 full of food, the temp doesn't increase
very much at all during a defrost mode since the mass of the food helps
to hold the cold. When we start to see higher and higher temp spikes in
the freezer with the freezer a min of 1/2 full we would start to
suspect the defrost thermostat and or defrost timer.

Is it always an electric heater? I expected an electric heater but
didn't see one. How do I tell whether it's on?

99% of the time it is an electric heater. Some very old refrigerators
where a hot gas defrost, with no heater.

How do I tell whether it's on?

Find the heater and touch it...or use an amp meter to see if the heater
is drawing current when it should be.

Thanks, I see. I turned the switch from "High Humidity" to "Low
Humidity", and now the warm spots are gone.

That is the mullion heater(s) around the door edges, mostly this is to
help prevent sweating in the humid weather.

Should I deal with the freezer-not-cold problem first?

Sure. Inspect frost pattern on the cooling coils with the unit running.
Check/clean hot condensor coils, etc.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

Appliance Repair Aid wrote:
Matt wrote:



Hi,


Philco Ford No Frost 17 ("Pt. #78-3730-1") purchased ca. 1970


An oldie!

Thanks for not jeering.

It would give me some satisfaction to fix this box cheaply. But I'm
guessing it will cost at least four times as much to run as a new 5 to 7
cubic foot chest freezer. Those use about 250kWh/year. Mainly I need a
good freezer. We don't have much need for the refrigerator side.

Can I get an estimate of the power usage of this old box?

G'day,

Can I get an estimate of the power usage of this old box?

When I started doing serive in 1980 the average compressor in a
refrigerator would draw approx 3 - 3.5 amps. Ones today draw 1 or less
than 1 amp. That should mean the refrigerator will be using 2-3 times
the amount of hydro than a new one would. Probaby $50-100 a year more
in hydro.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

Appliance Repair Aid wrote:
G'day,


Can I get an estimate of the power usage of this old box?


When I started doing serive in 1980 the average compressor in a
refrigerator would draw approx 3 - 3.5 amps. Ones today draw 1 or less
than 1 amp. That should mean the refrigerator will be using 2-3 times
the amount of hydro than a new one would. Probaby $50-100 a year more
in hydro.

Does that comparison assume that the new and old units are the same
size? The new freezer would be only 5 to 7 cubic feet vs. 17 cu. ft.
for the old side-by-side. I am supposing that the new one would use
less power than the old one due to being smaller. But I suppose a
freezer would use more power per cubic foot than a fridge/freezer of the
same size.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/