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Pop
 
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Default Trailer House Electrical Nightmare

Prep lots of pigtails and get decent outlets etc..

Careful: Be sure the wire isn't aluminim! That'll make it a
whole 'nother story.

Doing any work there sounds to me like a huge liability - are you
sure you want to do that?

HTH,
PopS

wrote in message
...
: My neighbor called me yesterday and said that their trailer
house had
: been without power in half the house since a lightning storm
about 4
: days ago. He said he flipped all the breakers, and used a neon
tester
: to check for voltage at each breaker.
:
: I checked and found each breaker also working, but over half
the
: lights and outlets not working. That's when I discovered the
: nightmare. They use some special outlets and switches that I
have
: never seen. They use no box. The wires come from the wall and
right
: into the outlet or switch itself. But the rear of the outlet
is
: covered with a plastic cover, so it sort of is it's own box.
Pulling
: it apart, (and gettting off those plastic snap in covers is a
major
: pain in itself), I found that the wires are not even stripped,
just
: pushed into metal snaps. Some of the wires were loose, and
worse yet,
: when I tried tu take the wires out of these snaps, several of
the
: outlets or switches just fell apart. In other words, there is
no way
: to really trace anything without a huge hassle.
:
: I have never seen these devices before, and hope to never see
them
: again. I was in the electrical business for several years but
worked
: on only a few trailer houses, older ones, and those had
standard
: outlets in shallow boxes. At least that was pretty normal
despite the
: lack of box space. But these new contraptions are total
garbage.
:
: Normally to trace a problem like this I just remove cover
plates and
: test from outlet to outlet, but not on this job. And each
outlet
: seems to have 3 or more cables, and all crammed into those
snaps,
: where many are not even pushed in far enough due to too many
wires.
:
: After 5 hours of screwing around, I finally got the idea to
shut off
: the breakers to the two lines that were not working and back
feed from
: a working outlet to the bad ones, using a long extension cord.
That
: way I found that there was power at each fixture, but nothing
back to
: the breakers. Of course, with no wiring diagram, it's like
finding a
: needle in a haystack. Also, when I applied this backfeed power,
we
: heard pops and cracks in two switches. I opened both of them,
and
: found loosely clamped wires, but that did not solve the
problem.
:
: I finally told the guy there might be a few sparks. I placed a
direct
: short across one of the outlets, and backfed my power. There
was a
: large surge, but the breaker did not trip. Note: I had a
jumper wire
: directly across the hot and neutral.
:
: OK now for the totally rediculous. I was hoping that direct
short
: would blow a few sparks and indicate the problem device, before
: tripping the breaker. Instead it fixed the problem......
(your guess
: is as good as mine). All I can figure is that it "welded"
whatever
: wire was loose back to the clip. Everything is working again,
except
: for two lights and one outlet bacause the clips broke, and I
just
: wirenutted the wires together temporarily, eliminating the
outlet and
: 2 switches.
:
: However, I did warn the owner that this problem is not only
going to
: reoccur, but I feel they got a fire hazzard, and told them I
really
: think every outlet and switch on both of those circuits should
be
: replaced, and told them to not connect any heavy appliances to
any of
: those outlets. They already agreed to have me replace all of
them.
: (That will be a pain too, because all the cable ends are very
short,
: and the wall cutouts are all too small for boxes).
:
: I am posting this to ask if anyone else has ever run across
these
: totally junk outlets and switches? What are they even called?
Are
: they something made just for trailer houses, because I have
never seen
: them anywhere else? Do they make any sort of boxless
replacements
: that use actual screws to attach the wires?
: There are 16 outlets and 8 switches on these two lines, and
with those
: short cable ends, I'd like to do this as easily as possible and
still
: be safe. Even if I could get replacements of the same type, I
would
: not use them.
:
: Mark


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SQLit
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
My neighbor called me yesterday and said that their trailer house had
been without power in half the house since a lightning storm about 4
days ago. He said he flipped all the breakers, and used a neon tester
to check for voltage at each breaker.

I checked and found each breaker also working, but over half the
lights and outlets not working. That's when I discovered the
nightmare. They use some special outlets and switches that I have
never seen. They use no box. The wires come from the wall and right



Really common in older mobile homes. Our state outlawed that kind of
construction a few years back.
megger every conductor from point to point.

It is going to be a long process.



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maxinemovies
 
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Default

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:08:28 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:48:33 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:

Prep lots of pigtails and get decent outlets etc..

Careful: Be sure the wire isn't aluminim! That'll make it a
whole 'nother story.

Doing any work there sounds to me like a huge liability - are you
sure you want to do that?

HTH,
PopS


Not aluminum nor copper clad. I have run across a few of those in the
past. This is a newer trailer with copper wire, and the crappiest
outlets and switches I have ever seen. It wont be a liability once
they are replaced with proper devices, just a lot of work. I already
talked with the owner about the dangerous setup that is there now, and
he has been helping me by removing them from the wall, and can see
just how bad they are. We're only going to replace all the devices on
those two breakers at fault (for now). I already told him they should
ALL be replaced in the whole house. Everything except the breaker box
and light fixtures which are ok.

I guess these pieces of **** outlets were a means to save money since
they could not save any using aluminum wire. Just like the door
hinges in there, they are only half a hinge, or hollow in the middle,
thus less metal, so they saved a few bucks in the process. This is
actually one of the nicer looking trailers I have been in, but poorly
built. I can't understand where the few dollars of savings pay off
when building something that way. I'd rather pay an extra couple
hundred and end up with something decent in the end. I'd tend to
think that standard outlets and common boxes would cost less for the
parts, but take a little more labor. And for those lousy door hinges,
they probably saved $10 on the whole unit. What's the point?

Mark


My manufactured home is scheduled to be delivered in one week, on the
3rd. Reading your post, now I'm concerned. Can you find out who the
manufacturer is of that house? I'm really hoping it's not the one
we're using. We did our homework as well as we could and ours is
highly rated, but the more we can learn, the better.

Good luck with the repairs. I hope it all works out okay. Let me know
if you can find out anything about manufacturer and model. Did your
neighbor buy it new or used? Many thanks.


Maxi

Email addy upon request.
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Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
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On Sat 24 Sep 2005 03:37:40a, wrote in alt.home.repair:

They use some special outlets and switches that I have
never seen. They use no box. The wires come from the wall and right
into the outlet or switch itself. But the rear of the outlet is
covered with a plastic cover, so it sort of is it's own box.


While waiting for the completion of our new home, we are currently renting
a brand new manufactured home. This house has the very same type of
switches and outlets you described. I don't know the manufacturer of this
house, but I do know it was built in Cananda.

We discovered this the first week we lived here as I removed the coverplate
to the diningroom light switch to install a dimmer. Since we don't own the
house, I didn't want to mess with it and simply replaced the coverplate.

Since then we've begun to have problems with the kitchen light switch. It
now works intermittently. These are "dacor" style switches. If you flip
it in the on position the light momentarily comes on, then goes out. If
you leave it in the on position for about half an hour, you can tap it
again and the light stays on.

I haven't reported it to leasing company yet because we don't want them in
here until after we move out. I let them know then.

If I were you, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the replacement work.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.
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Pop
 
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....
: If I were you, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the
replacement work.
:
: --
: Wayne Boatwright *¿*
: __________________________________________________ ___
:
: If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

That's the real problem with trying to be a good samaritin for
some things. You do your best and everything you do turns out
perfect, and it's all to 100% code.
But, should the place burn down and the insurance
companies/fire investigators get into it, someone might have to
take the rap for having done possibly uninspected work, or worse,
for violating the law that says if you fix one thing substandard,
you have to fix them all, and then the problem can get even
worse. I'm making things up here obviously, but those people
aren't making things up. There's a reason for licenses and
bonding, etc etc etc.

Chances of that happening are probably pretty slim and I might do
the same thing the OP did too, but ... damn, it can turn into a
heck of a liability.

PopS
---
If assholes could fly, THIS place would be on Mars by now! :-}




  #6   Report Post  
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun 25 Sep 2005 10:24:03a, Pop wrote in alt.home.repair:

...
: If I were you, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the replacement
: work.
:
: --
: Wayne Boatwright *¿*
: __________________________________________________ ___
:
: If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

That's the real problem with trying to be a good samaritin for
some things. You do your best and everything you do turns out
perfect, and it's all to 100% code.
But, should the place burn down and the insurance
companies/fire investigators get into it, someone might have to
take the rap for having done possibly uninspected work, or worse,
for violating the law that says if you fix one thing substandard,
you have to fix them all, and then the problem can get even
worse. I'm making things up here obviously, but those people
aren't making things up. There's a reason for licenses and
bonding, etc etc etc.

Chances of that happening are probably pretty slim and I might do
the same thing the OP did too, but ... damn, it can turn into a
heck of a liability.

PopS
---
If assholes could fly, THIS place would be on Mars by now! :-}


hehehe!



--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.
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Thomas D. Horne, Electrician
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Pop wrote:
...
: If I were you, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the
replacement work.
:
: --
: Wayne Boatwright *¿*
: __________________________________________________ ___
:
: If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

That's the real problem with trying to be a good samaritin for
some things. You do your best and everything you do turns out
perfect, and it's all to 100% code.
But, should the place burn down and the insurance
companies/fire investigators get into it, someone might have to
take the rap for having done possibly uninspected work, or worse,
for violating the law that says if you fix one thing substandard,
you have to fix them all, and then the problem can get even
worse. I'm making things up here obviously, but those people
aren't making things up. There's a reason for licenses and
bonding, etc etc etc.

Chances of that happening are probably pretty slim and I might do
the same thing the OP did too, but ... damn, it can turn into a
heck of a liability.

PopS
---
If assholes could fly, THIS place would be on Mars by now! :-}



There is no such law.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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Pop
 
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Default

....

:
: There is no such law.
: --
: Tom Horne
:

Huh? Is there something relevant in that comment?


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Duane Bozarth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Pop wrote:

...

:
: There is no such law.
: --


I believe he's questioning the existence of the "law" you mentioned
earlier regarding requirements for "fixing all substandard if fix
anything" (my paraphrase)...

I wondered about that myself as I'm unaware of any such actual law in
place, but wouldn't say there isn't something that might be applicable
in some certain instances--but I'd think if there were they would
ordinarily only be for commercial or public structures, etc., ...

Perhaps you could/would amplify on the basis for the previous...
  #10   Report Post  
Pop
 
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Default


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
: Pop wrote:
:
: ...
:
: :
: : There is no such law.
: : --
:
: I believe he's questioning the existence of the "law" you
mentioned
: earlier regarding requirements for "fixing all substandard if
fix
: anything" (my paraphrase)...
:
: I wondered about that myself as I'm unaware of any such actual
law in
: place, but wouldn't say there isn't something that might be
applicable
: in some certain instances--but I'd think if there were they
would
: ordinarily only be for commercial or public structures, etc.,
....
:
: Perhaps you could/would amplify on the basis for the
previous...

Ah, I see, I think. "Law" wasn't the correct term, and though I
don't recall using it I probably did. I looked and didn't see
it, so ... .
Anyway, you have to keep in mind that I was making
generalizations about things that -could- get in the way, not
that -would-. I probably meant that the local codes in some
places can require that if you upgrade one part of a
grandfathered installation, especially residential, you have to
upgrade the whole thing if it doesn't meet current codes. I live
in one of those areas. It's not as strict as I make it sound and
other things come into play, but I'm no guru on the subject by
any means; sorry if I gave that impression.
A few years back I helped a neighbor put in a new entrance
box. We were pretty disappointed to discover that a new entrance
box also meant that everything connected to it had to meet the
current codes, which meant the old knob & tube stuff in the attic
had to go, a new run was required to a sub panel in the basement,
gfci's had to be installed, wire pulled out of old gas pipes, and
so on. We tried to argue it, but lost. It was quite a pain
getting through some of the plank siding.
Like I said in my post though, I was making references to
possibilities, not saying those things would occur or be
required.

PopS




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Duane Bozarth
 
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Default

Pop wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
: Pop wrote:
:
: ...
:
: :
: : There is no such law.
: : --
:
: I believe he's questioning the existence of the "law" you
mentioned
: earlier regarding requirements for "fixing all substandard if
fix
: anything" (my paraphrase)...
:
: I wondered about that myself as I'm unaware of any such actual
law in
: place, but wouldn't say there isn't something that might be
applicable
: in some certain instances--but I'd think if there were they
would
: ordinarily only be for commercial or public structures, etc.,
...
:
: Perhaps you could/would amplify on the basis for the
previous...

Ah, I see, I think. "Law" wasn't the correct term, and though I
don't recall using it I probably did. I looked and didn't see
it, so ...


From your previous post...

"But, should the place burn down and the insurance
companies/fire investigators get into it, someone might have to
take the rap for having done possibly uninspected work, or worse,
for violating the law that says if you fix one thing substandard,
you have to fix them all, ..."

....
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