Part of electrical circuit dead
 

In my home, part of a circuit is dead. The lights do not work and the
outlets are dead. This is only a portion of the circuit. I checked the
obvious things myself:

1.) Make sure no circuit breakers tripped
2.) Make sure no GFCI breakers tripped
3.) Open up some of the outlets to look for a loose connection

I could not find anything myself so I hired an electrician. He came
out and did much the same thing I did. Opened up a bunch of outlets
and could find no cause for the failure. So I paid for a couple of
hours of work and no fix.

The electrician indicated there is a tool that you can use to track a
wire through a wall to pinpoint where the break occurs. Unfortunately
he doesn't have one. I guess you would put some electrical generator
of a sort on a plug and then use some detector to track it along the
walls to see when the signal stops.

My question is this for any electricians out there. There doesn't
appear to be any obvious reason for the broken circuit. I need to find
an electrician with the right tool for this type of problem. What type
of tool should I require that they have? Is there an industry term for
the type of tool that is needed? I'm open to having them open up part
of a wall, if necessary, but I want high confidence that they really
know where the fault is (assuming it's a break in a wall).

Thanks.

http://www.amprobetesters.com/Wire-T...-Locators.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
In my home, part of a circuit is dead. The lights do not work and the
outlets are dead. This is only a portion of the circuit. I checked the
obvious things myself:

1.) Make sure no circuit breakers tripped
2.) Make sure no GFCI breakers tripped
3.) Open up some of the outlets to look for a loose connection

I could not find anything myself so I hired an electrician. He came
out and did much the same thing I did. Opened up a bunch of outlets
and could find no cause for the failure. So I paid for a couple of
hours of work and no fix.

The electrician indicated there is a tool that you can use to track a
wire through a wall to pinpoint where the break occurs. Unfortunately
he doesn't have one. I guess you would put some electrical generator
of a sort on a plug and then use some detector to track it along the
walls to see when the signal stops.

My question is this for any electricians out there. There doesn't
appear to be any obvious reason for the broken circuit. I need to find
an electrician with the right tool for this type of problem. What type
of tool should I require that they have? Is there an industry term for
the type of tool that is needed? I'm open to having them open up part
of a wall, if necessary, but I want high confidence that they really
know where the fault is (assuming it's a break in a wall).

Thanks.

wrote in message
oups.com...
In my home, part of a circuit is dead. The lights do not work and the
outlets are dead. This is only a portion of the circuit. I checked the
obvious things myself:

1.) Make sure no circuit breakers tripped
2.) Make sure no GFCI breakers tripped
3.) Open up some of the outlets to look for a loose connection

I could not find anything myself so I hired an electrician. He came
out and did much the same thing I did. Opened up a bunch of outlets
and could find no cause for the failure. So I paid for a couple of
hours of work and no fix.

The electrician indicated there is a tool that you can use to track a
wire through a wall to pinpoint where the break occurs. Unfortunately
he doesn't have one. I guess you would put some electrical generator
of a sort on a plug and then use some detector to track it along the
walls to see when the signal stops.

My question is this for any electricians out there. There doesn't
appear to be any obvious reason for the broken circuit. I need to find
an electrician with the right tool for this type of problem. What type
of tool should I require that they have? Is there an industry term for
the type of tool that is needed? I'm open to having them open up part
of a wall, if necessary, but I want high confidence that they really
know where the fault is (assuming it's a break in a wall).


He needs something like the following:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...1145-Homedepot

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...1145-Homedepot

Sometimes called a toner. The particular units I have shown may not work
through walls but there are similar units that will.

Geez, you follow the bad circuit back to the breaker box. Inbetween where it
is good and where it is bad there is a problem.
You actually paid this guy when he couldn't find it?

wrote in message
oups.com...
In my home, part of a circuit is dead. The lights do not work and the
outlets are dead. This is only a portion of the circuit. I checked the
obvious things myself:

1.) Make sure no circuit breakers tripped
2.) Make sure no GFCI breakers tripped
3.) Open up some of the outlets to look for a loose connection

I could not find anything myself so I hired an electrician. He came
out and did much the same thing I did. Opened up a bunch of outlets
and could find no cause for the failure. So I paid for a couple of
hours of work and no fix.

The electrician indicated there is a tool that you can use to track a
wire through a wall to pinpoint where the break occurs. Unfortunately
he doesn't have one. I guess you would put some electrical generator
of a sort on a plug and then use some detector to track it along the
walls to see when the signal stops.

My question is this for any electricians out there. There doesn't
appear to be any obvious reason for the broken circuit. I need to find
an electrician with the right tool for this type of problem. What type
of tool should I require that they have? Is there an industry term for
the type of tool that is needed? I'm open to having them open up part
of a wall, if necessary, but I want high confidence that they really
know where the fault is (assuming it's a break in a wall).

Thanks.

There are several "toners" and other kinds circuit/wire tracers. Some work
marginally in stud wall none work with any certainty in concrete, block, or
steel framed wall. I have owned cheap ones and expensive ones. I do not
own one now.

House wiring is usually pretty simple to figure out at least for me. Takes
time, but process of elimination explains every situation I have ever ran
into.

My first question would be, what changed? Did you install something? Drill
any holes? Any one do any work on or in your home just before the problem
was found?

My guess is you will find the problem at or near a junction box.
What state are you located in?

Toller wrote:
Geez, you follow the bad circuit back to the breaker box. Inbetween where it
is good and where it is bad there is a problem.
You actually paid this guy when he couldn't find it?

I know. The problem is that it is not evident where the break is. It
is likely in the wall, or between the 1st and 2nd floor of the house.
It isn't obvious. I also don't have schematics for the exact layout of
the circuit so it's also difficult to know where the last good "plug"
is. If I knew were the last good outlet was, then that would at least
give me a decent idea where the break is. For now, I can only
guesstimate.

Thanks to everyone for their posts. I think I'll find another
electrician; one with better tools.

SQLit wrote:
My first question would be, what changed? Did you install something? Drill
any holes? Any one do any work on or in your home just before the problem
was found?

My guess is you will find the problem at or near a junction box.
What state are you located in?

In California (Sacramento area). Nothing changed. No work was done on
the house. My guess would be that it is one of the following:

1.) A wire has popped out the back of a wall outlet. All the outlets
I have removed, as well as the electrician, show no such failure. We
removed quite a few to look at them. Nothing found.

2.) The house shifted and cut the wire. Seems unlikely but I suppose
it's possible.

3.) Some rodent or some such chewed the wire.

Regards.

It's possible that you may have a junction box buried somewhere and the
connections separated for some reason.

Last Christmas I got a call from a customer complaining that their outside
lights stopped working. I did all the usual opening up of switches and
outlets and the electrical panel, but couldn't find the problem. Then the
owner remembered that he buried a junction box in the drywall ceiling when
he finished off the basement a few years back.

Fortunately he remembered approximately where the box was and I cut a few
holes to find it. That's where the problem was. He had done all of the
wiring himself and did not twist the splices together before screwing on the
wire connectors. I was able to move the box and put a blank wall plate on
it for future accessibility.

Those electrical tracers are a beautiful thing, but they are not always a
sure bet. Putting a signal on wires in the wall and trying to trace it out
may make you crazy as you get readings from everywhere. I suggest that you
try and narrow the problem down to a certain area and play detective. Did
you do any remodeling and accidentally bury an electrical box? Did the
previous owners? Do you have any recessed lighting in the problem area?
Try pulling down the lights to see if there is a junction box there. Were
you able to determine if the hot wire is dead or is it the neutral
conductor? Or are both wires dead? Did you check the outlets that are
still working?

Let us know how you make out.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv



wrote in message
oups.com...
In my home, part of a circuit is dead. The lights do not work and the
outlets are dead. This is only a portion of the circuit. I checked the
obvious things myself:

1.) Make sure no circuit breakers tripped
2.) Make sure no GFCI breakers tripped
3.) Open up some of the outlets to look for a loose connection

I could not find anything myself so I hired an electrician. He came
out and did much the same thing I did. Opened up a bunch of outlets
and could find no cause for the failure. So I paid for a couple of
hours of work and no fix.

The electrician indicated there is a tool that you can use to track a
wire through a wall to pinpoint where the break occurs. Unfortunately
he doesn't have one. I guess you would put some electrical generator
of a sort on a plug and then use some detector to track it along the
walls to see when the signal stops.

My question is this for any electricians out there. There doesn't
appear to be any obvious reason for the broken circuit. I need to find
an electrician with the right tool for this type of problem. What type
of tool should I require that they have? Is there an industry term for
the type of tool that is needed? I'm open to having them open up part
of a wall, if necessary, but I want high confidence that they really
know where the fault is (assuming it's a break in a wall).

Thanks.

John Grabowski wrote:
try and narrow the problem down to a certain area and play detective. Did
you do any remodeling and accidentally bury an electrical box? Did the
previous owners? Do you have any recessed lighting in the problem area?

No remodeling done for years (and none done in this area of the house).
I looked all around and did not see any missing junction box. The
things on the circuit that are dead a

1.) A number of wall outlets (perhaps 4 total)
2.) One dining room light (two wall switches to control the one light)
3.) One pantry light
4.) One recessed light in the porch area just outside the dining room
5.) Our doorbell / central radio box (that has an internal
transformer)

All seemed 100% dead with no voltage detected around them. A number of
"live" junction boxes around the same area were checked to make sure
they had no loose connections. All were good with live feeds out.

The recessed light in the outside porch area was not removed so I'll
check that later tonight.

Were
you able to determine if the hot wire is dead or is it the neutral
conductor? Or are both wires dead? Did you check the outlets that are
still working?

Yes on checking several of the still working outlets. As to
determining if the hot wire is dead and/or the neutral, the electrician
might have known the answer to that (I'm assuming he checked something
like that). I am not experienced enough to know what to check myself.

JR