"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Nehmo wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and
supplies. And the house would need a secure means of transportation
for escape if necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?

|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||


Easy answer. Just build it in Antarctica. It has not had a hurricane
in millions of years.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Plus no germs or bacteria. Food would stay longer for the survivalist.

Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked
like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years ago.
Wonder if the meat was still good?


--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

"Saab Guy" wrote in message
...
So let's do a FULL recap of this house. I am going to save this for
future use and reference.

Let's fill in the blanks and develope this and have it stand the test
of back-and-forth until we ALL agree on the resultant.

Let's also be realistic, but don't limit yourself. Let's be practical
but without any sacrifice on anything for the sake of safety &
security most importantly.

HURRICANE-HOUSE

This is going to take a ****load of concrete.

--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

Nehmo wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?


Some places to start:

1: The buildings at the top of Mount Washington are a good example to
follow for wind resistance. They withstood a storm in which gusts
topped 230mph, the highest winds ever recorded. Worth a look if you
want a house that'll handle any winds Mother Nature might blow its way.

2: The dutch have designed well for slow rising water. They've built
houses that float. Not house boats, mind you. These homes have
floating concrete foundations that will rise and fall with rising water
levels. (I knew that thesis I heard of where a stoner physics student
designd and floated a concrete boat and got credit for it would have
some use somewhere, but I digress).

An idea I had was a house with a two story garage and an amphibian car
in it. Living area on the second floor. When slow rising water comes,
the car/boat rises up, and I can go out of my house like I normally
would, climb into my car/boat, and drive off.


3: Storm surge is already designed for in many parts of the Gulf Coast.
Houses are up on stilts, as many of our Florida contingent here on
alt.architecture can explain.

4: As for unwanted government and looter home invasion, the best
defense is you. Your eyes and ears, a video camera, and a gun. If you
design your home to physically withstand the worst storms, it logically
follows that you should be able to stay there safely during the worst
storms, and the best defense against looters is a physical presence and
a gun; the best defense against government is a video camera.

A house that's a veritable fortress against intruders wouldn't be
pleasant to live during the 99.9% of the time when there's not a
hurricane pummelling it or looters attacking it. That's my view anyway.




5: Another thing to think about is plumbing. Namely, when the power
goes out, the water will as well. I've seen and smelled a toilet that's
been full and not flushed for 2 weeks straight; you -do not- want that
in your house.

Some auxiliary toilet, an out house even, that doesn't rely on running
water is certainly in-order for a hurricane proof house.

The wise man woulb build his house upon the rock., and make it outta
concrete.

Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

Adam Weiss wrote:



2: The dutch have designed well for slow rising water. They've built
houses that float. Not house boats, mind you. These homes have
floating concrete foundations that will rise and fall with rising water
levels. (I knew that thesis I heard of where a stoner physics student
designd and floated a concrete boat and got credit for it would have
some use somewhere, but I digress).


The English were using concrete boats in 1910 or so, and a Frenchman
patented a wire reinforced concrete boat in 1847. It wasn't exactly a
stoner physic student's brainstorm.

"Jim-Poncin" wrote
Yes, and if subjected to heavy wave action it would probably fail. Cat 3
Katrina tore up a lot of heavy duty structures. But even before those
considerations it would cost way too much and would not pass residential
codes because it would be an eyesore.
A realistic house would have to be one at ground level that could
survive immersion. I think that means a heavy stone/cement igloo shaped
structure.

Nope.
I've done over 300 hpmes in the 130mph wind zone during the past 15 years
and all of them sustained the 4 terrors last year.
No ONE thing will do it, it takes a *system*.
Clue: Abiding by FEMA dictates will get people killed.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:10:29 GMT, "Jim-Poncin"
wrote:


"Notan" wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting wrote:

Nehmo wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water
has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had
subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and
the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and
supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape
if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?


I'd build it using reinforced concrete with metal shutters to close
over
the windows, it's own 30 day water supply and enough fuel to power a
backup generator for that same amount of time, and I'd build it on
columns at least 20' tall above the ground, or whatever the storm surge
level from a cat 5 storm is expected to be in that area.

And, while building it off the ground, to get out of harm's way of the
water,
aren't you exposing it to more potential wind damage?

Yes, and if subjected to heavy wave action it would probably fail. Cat 3
Katrina tore up a lot of heavy duty structures. But even before those
considerations it would cost way too much and would not pass residential
codes because it would be an eyesore.
A realistic house would have to be one at ground level that could
survive immersion. I think that means a heavy stone/cement igloo shaped
structure.





iisn't new orleans on a sand bar? make it too heavy and it will just
sink when the ground gets saturated. a bunch of buildings did that on
sand fill in san francisco during one of the big earthquakes.

No, it lies on delta muds and silts that slowly de-water, compact and
subside. There are many tall masonry buildings in downtown N.O. that are on
the same foundation.

"Notan" wrote in message
And, while building it off the ground, to get out of harm's way of the
water,
aren't you exposing it to more potential wind damage?

Notan

Sure, but that can be overcome with engineering and $$$$. maybe lots of
$$$$$$$$$$.

skroob wrote:
Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.

How about a set of plane tickets set for parts far away?

"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||


It would be far cheaper to buy a house in some distant locale. At least,
you could use for some purpose all the time.
Jim

"skroob" wrote in message
...
Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.


For a hurricane? Last thing I would want to be in.

What Army has submarines anyways.


--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

Nehmo wrote:

Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?


On the North Carolina shore - near the mouth of the Cape Fear, one fellow
built shacks on stilts. They get some fearsome hurricanes in those parts.
The stilts, he claimed, allowed the house to sway in the wind (rather than
resist and get pushed over). And the stilts kept the house from flooding in
the surge.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:

[asinine proposition snipped]

I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

Charlie Self wrote:
Adam Weiss wrote:


2: The dutch have designed well for slow rising water. They've built
houses that float. Not house boats, mind you. These homes have
floating concrete foundations that will rise and fall with rising water
levels. (I knew that thesis I heard of where a stoner physics student
designd and floated a concrete boat and got credit for it would have
some use somewhere, but I digress).



The English were using concrete boats in 1910 or so, and a Frenchman
patented a wire reinforced concrete boat in 1847. It wasn't exactly a
stoner physic student's brainstorm.


I didn't know that.

But here it is, all online and easily accessed for those too lazy to do
real research in a library:

http://www.concreteships.org/history/


Very interesting and thanks.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:

How should this house be built and what should it have?

Best would be to build it in Britain, not America. (after all, "in
Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire hurricanes hardly ever happen")

Second best would be to build it in America, in the way the British have
always, and still do, build perfectly average houses. They're not great
in earthquakes and in hurricanes the roof comes off (just look at
Birmingham a month or two back) but the expensive structure stays intact
and doesn't crush the inhabitants.

If you're worried about flooding, ask the Netherlanders, who have done
this stuff quietly and competently for centuries.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:

How should this house be built and what should it have?

Best would be to build it in Britain, not America. (after all, "in
Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire hurricanes hardly ever happen")

Second best would be to build it in America, in the way the British have
always, and still do, build perfectly average houses. They're not great
in earthquakes and in hurricanes the roof comes off (just look at
Birmingham a month or two back) but the expensive structure stays intact
and doesn't crush the inhabitants.

If you're worried about flooding, ask the Netherlanders, who have done
this stuff quietly and competently for centuries.

And what percentage of the British population actually own homes?

CWatters wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message
...


How should this house be built and what should it have?


Underground?



Yep, that would be a great place to be when the flood waters came in.
Unless, of course, your underground house is a buried submarine. :-)

Matt

I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.

Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever.

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:

[asinine proposition snipped]

I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.

I have seen worst, but

In my best Larry King voice

"It's way up there...."

Phil Scott wrote:


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus
garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the
water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would
suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as
Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood
water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind
had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the
future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government
interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication,
and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation
for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?


Tilt up concrete walls with rebar from slab foundation...
foundation anchored with 24" diameter deep piles at each
corner.

Flat metal storm roof under the mostly decorative pitched
roof. The storm roof would be poured concrete at 10'.. actual
ceiling in the house would be at 8' or 9'.

Glass would be tempered 1/2" glass. Steel shutters outside.

Doors would be heavy metal, tight sealing that swing out, not
in.


[...]

In New Orleans, where being below sea level and inland from the Gulf of
Mexico provides a lot of protection, this would be overkill, because the
big danger was and is flooding from broken or overtopped levees, not direct
storm surge. A building that can withstand high winds isn't the real
challenge: it's the massive force of MOVING water that is the killer. The
biggest problem with flooding (other than surviving it) is the major mold
and mildew problem that will persist for months or years afterward if the
materials are at all water absorbent.

And on the coast, directly exposed to the full force of combined storm surge
and waves, it wouldn't be nearly enough, unless it really were just a small
storm shelter within a larger building, and even then there are never
guarantees. Storm surge combined with large waves can shatter even a heavy
concrete foundation if it is undercut, and the undercut is why the pilings
are there. So you would need a lot more pilings than just the four
corners, unless it were a small (e.g. one room) shelter.

The "hurricane proof house" near Pensacola is an effort to design just such
a home, but it is far from "hurricane proof". "Hurricane resistant" is a
much better description. See
http://www.domeofahome.com/news_detail.asp?ID=29 for some discussion of how
much repair the $800,000 "hurricane proof" house needed after being near
the most destructive part of Ivan. The "before" images are at
http://www.domeofahome.com/gallery/ and some design info at
http://www.domeofahome.com/DomeHome_sun-sentinel.pdf

Keep in mind that the stairs and the concrete slab that were designed to
break away become battering rams when they wash up against someone else's
"hurricane proof" home.


- Bob

gruhn wrote:
I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.


Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever.



I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever.

Matt

http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/ho...ictorial1.html

--=20
SwampBug
- - - - - - - - - - - -


"Nehmo" wrote in message =
...
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?

--=20
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

Easy answer. Just build it in Antarctica. It has not had a hurricane
in millions of years.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


BETTER answer.... Just build it in Canada...we have plenty of flood planes
for the moronic and a well established reputation for helping our neighbours
as opposed to using high powered fire arms to solve all our problems.


Regards,


Doug

Nehmo wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

NOLA must have been on the back-side, with storm surge initially going out.


You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?


I think you can safely leave "rec.woodworking" off the list; there won't
be a lot of wood in this structure. First, you need to withstand a 30'
storm surge and, to be safe, 40' waves. 200 mph wind. So, I would start
with reinforced concrete on bedrock, bottom 70' not living space.
Hurricane shutters a must, along with generator higher than potential
flood level. Plenty of fuel, food and water. Security force to keep
out the masses when THE storm is coming. Heli-pad/covered pool on roof.
You will have to have some leisure and exercise, and a way to get out
when the end of the world comes and you and a chopper pilot are the only
two humans left :o) Might as well put the ark up there, too :o)

We have had about 8' storm surge from storms far out on gulf and no
wind. Pretty spooky when the seawall and docks all disappear and it
looks, suddenly, like a beach :o) 30' storm surge where I live would
drown my upstairs neighbor.

Poland? ;)


nice catch, though.


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"skroob" wrote in message
...
Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.


For a hurricane? Last thing I would want to be in.

What Army has submarines anyways.


--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

Nehmo (in ) said:

| How should this house be built and what should it have?

Solid but light. Wheels.

[and anti-troll protection]

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Cato" wrote
skroob wrote:
Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.

How about a set of plane tickets set for parts far away?

Make that boat tickets and I'll order 2 right away.
When an airplane stops flying you can't get out and fly.
When a boat stops floating you can get out and swim.
Humans are more closely related to fish than birds. ;-)

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:

[asinine proposition snipped]

I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.

So said the boy that lives in the cave. LOL

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
gruhn wrote:
I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.


Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever.



I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever.



I know you are butt what am I????

;-]

In article S7nUe.498$Hs6.48@trnddc07,
"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote:

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
In article , "Chris"
wrote:

Asking the "Three Little Pigs" comes to mind. That is of course if
they
are still around

Didn't one of them go to market?

Yes, but he was looting, so it was ok.

But which one do you shoot?

One had roast beef and the other had nun........

I'd drill the little ****er that went "WEE WEE WEE" all the way home...

Build it on a big mound of packed dirt with pilings to hold it all in
place. Make the rest of the structural parts except doors and windows
of heavily reinforced concrete.

Stretch

vdubbs wrote:


For one, an address farther inland.


Keeping in mind that the sperm whale population in northwest Nebraska is
negligible.
j4

Dr. Hardcrab wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

gruhn wrote:

I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of
these groups.

Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever.

I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever.


I know you are butt what am I????

;-]


Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee.
j4

Nehmo wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a
sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has
been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero
damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina.

You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the
wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided
before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the
impacts of debris.

You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference.

The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies.
And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if
necessary.

How should this house be built and what should it have?



I was just wondering about how to reinforce the front door so the cops
couldn't kick it open -- even with that little battering ram they use,
unless they want to keep pounding on it for 20 minutes. I think the
door frame and the latch are probably more important than the actual
door. Of course, it would have to have a chain so you could crack it
open to talk to people on the other side if you wanted to. 5/16" safety
chain? If they tried to kick it in while the door was cracked, it would
bounce shut (breaking someone's foot, hopefully) and you could latch the
bolt if you were fast.

An antique-looking 4 inch cannon in the front room would make a great
conversation piece. Hopefully no one would ever have to find out that
it was real and loaded with grapeshot.

Wood-frame construction (except for the heavy steel door frames) with
lots of metal ties to hold the roof joists to the wall plates, and steel
siding.

No basement, obviously.

Heavy full-sized shutters to cover the windows.

Small generator and transfer switch.

Best regards,
Bob

Chris wrote:

Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked
like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years ago.
Wonder if the meat was still good?



How did the narrator know that?

-Bob

skroob wrote:
Surplus army submarine would solve all issues.



Are you sure you would trust an *army* surplus submarine?

-Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:

Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked
like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years
ago. Wonder if the meat was still good?



How did the narrator know that?

-Bob

Not sure, I suppose you could ask him. As I remember he was as scientist
stationed down there. Good enough for me. My guess would be carbon dating.


--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

"zxcvbob" wrote
I was just wondering about how to reinforce the front door so the cops
couldn't kick it open -- even with that little battering ram they use,
unless they want to keep pounding on it for 20 minutes. I think the door
frame and the latch are probably more important than the actual door.

2x8 jambs & head and 4"x1/4" tapcons 6" o/c staggered.
steel clad or solid core outswing door.
triple nickel 40 threshhold.
that'll stop em in their tracks.

"zxcvbob" wrote
Chris wrote:
Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked
like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years
ago.

How did the narrator know that?

carbon dating?

Or, maybe he tasted it?