I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

The upside to using conduit is avoiding interruption. Animals have the
annonying tendency to chew through exposed wiring. Putting them in conduit
helps avoid that.

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, I meant running the wire along
the inside wall of the garage. The NEC, from what I picked up from Web
searches, says you have to use conduit to run the wire through a wall,
from inside to outside. I'm sure it's safe to run the low voltage wire
along an inside wall, using fasteners intended for use with wiring,
but I'm not sure what the NEC says about it...


On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:41:22 -0400, "wkearney99"
wrote:

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

The upside to using conduit is avoiding interruption. Animals have the
annonying tendency to chew through exposed wiring. Putting them in conduit
helps avoid that.

Martin wrote in message ...
I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin


As you are dealing with low voltage wire that is (hopefully) suitable for
direct burial.

I don't even think NEC rules apply. much more than "portable appliance
cords" for the 120v wire between the outlet and the transformer.
As that is all inside, it's not even an issue.

But just simple logic that any wire going through a block or concrete wall
should be able to be removed easily and should not be cemented in tight.
Putting it in a conduit in new construction allows it to be removed to be
checked or replaced if need be.
Just drilling a hole and plugging it with a bit of insulation would work
fine.

But if I were you I'd run it in a bit of conduit outside the garage at least
if the wire is not in the ground right away to prevent damage from
lawnmowers or weed-whackers

Also it's a good idea to keep any wires in a conduit where they are likely
to be subjected to damage or even pulling by little children.

Inside a garage is a very dangerous area for exposed wires, lots of things
move, can bump into walls, and have sharp edges.


AMUN

Martin wrote:

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

It needs to be protected.

If it is run low, where it is subject to being hit by a lawnmower or
weed wacker, then yes.

If it is up high or otherwise somehow protected from damage, then no.

Thanks for all the responses.

Let me restate the question: If low voltage (12v landscape) wire is
run along (not internal to) the indoor walls/ceiliing of a garage,
does the NEC have anything to say about it? Shovels hitting the wire,
things falling on it, etc. aren't a concern.

To clarify (based on the bits and pieces of the NEC that I've picked
up on-line), Chapter 3 of the NEC absolutely states that you *must*
use conduit to go through a wall. Also, the standard wire sold for
landscape lighting is suitable for direct burial. Per the NEC, the
wire is supposed to be buried (I believe) 6" deep, but I doubt that
anybody does that other than in areas that might be core aerated. It's
usually just placed under the mulch. There are no NEC requirements for
use of conduit outdoors.

The problem here is, as I said, that there is lots of talk on-line
about the NEC but it isn't actually available for reference on-line.
I just checked the card catalog at the local library via the Web, and
they have a copy in the reference section. When I find the answer,
I'll post it...

Martin


On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:45:44 -0400, Martin wrote:

I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin

Martin wrote in message news
Thanks for all the responses.

Let me restate the question: If low voltage (12v landscape) wire is
run along (not internal to) the indoor walls/ceiliing of a garage,
does the NEC have anything to say about it? Shovels hitting the wire,
things falling on it, etc. aren't a concern.

To clarify (based on the bits and pieces of the NEC that I've picked
up on-line), Chapter 3 of the NEC absolutely states that you *must*
use conduit to go through a wall. Also, the standard wire sold for
landscape lighting is suitable for direct burial. Per the NEC, the
wire is supposed to be buried (I believe) 6" deep, but I doubt that
anybody does that other than in areas that might be core aerated. It's
usually just placed under the mulch. There are no NEC requirements for
use of conduit outdoors.

The problem here is, as I said, that there is lots of talk on-line
about the NEC but it isn't actually available for reference on-line.
I just checked the card catalog at the local library via the Web, and
they have a copy in the reference section. When I find the answer,
I'll post it...

Martin


On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:45:44 -0400, Martin wrote:

I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin


In your case I would just use some common sense. If exposed wire is run
where it may be damaged, run it in conduit, other wise I do not believe it
is necessary.
Greg

Martin wrote in message ...
I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin


NEC doesn't apply for low voltage , you do what you need to do with it, just
use your own judgment. Its like the cable and phone companies - they drill
through any walls and install it anyway it suits them. No conduits. To
verify NEC doesn't apply call your local city inspector Monday.

Better wait till Tuesday if you're in the USA.

From:Fred


Martin wrote in message
...
I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is
run *through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it
is run along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything
special? Thanks,
Martin


NEC doesn't apply for low voltage , you do what you need to do with
it, just use your own judgment. Its like the cable and phone
companies - they drill through any walls and install it anyway it
suits them. No conduits. To verify NEC doesn't apply call your local
city inspector Monday.

Who says the NEC doesn't apply to low voltage? Check it out per Mark
Hult's link:

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...mID=18901&URL=
Publications/necdigest®/About%20the%20NEC®/The%202005%20NEC®/Proposal
s%20for%202005%20Edition&cookie%5Ftest=1

Martin


On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:36:23 GMT, "BruceR"
wrote:

Better wait till Tuesday if you're in the USA.

From:Fred


Martin wrote in message
...
I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is
run *through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it
is run along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything
special? Thanks,
Martin


NEC doesn't apply for low voltage , you do what you need to do with
it, just use your own judgment. Its like the cable and phone
companies - they drill through any walls and install it anyway it
suits them. No conduits. To verify NEC doesn't apply call your local
city inspector Monday.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:14:46 -0700, "Fred" wrote:


NEC doesn't apply for low voltage

Bzzzt! Wrong.
Thank you for playiong our game.

Ok educate me than, its been a while I've looked anything up in NEC. What
*section* of NEC you were referring to that requires conduit for low voltage
cables like 12V landscape, TV coax, telephone and thermostat control wires
in the house? Have you ever seen conduits for those inside your house
besides the service entry points from the street?

Thanks for the correction, Tuesday it is. I forgot government workers don't
work on Monday like I do.


"BruceR" wrote in message
...
Better wait till Tuesday if you're in the USA.

Martin wrote in message ...
Who says the NEC doesn't apply to low voltage? Check it out per Mark
Hult's link:

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...mID=18901&URL=
Publications/necdigest®/About%20the%20NEC®/The%202005%20NEC®/Proposal
s%20for%202005%20Edition&cookie%5Ftest=1

Martin


You've referred to *Proposals* for 2005 NEC Edition with 2815 pages! Did
all the proposals get into the 2005 NEC code book? So for low voltage part
of the landscaping what section of the 2005 NEC requires conduit and burial
depth that OP was referring to? In any case, I did refer the OP to contact
his local inspector for any requirements.

No permit required for the low voltage part of the landscape lighting
installation or other low voltage installation like phone wiring or coax
cables out here. I assume this is the case for many cities so how would NEC
be enforced?

Feed Through Bushing

Martin wrote in message ...
I'm planning to install some outdoor low voltage landscape lighting
using a transformer UL rated as indoor/outdoor mounted in the garage.

According to what I've been able to find wrt NEC, if the wiring is run
*through* a wall it must be enclosed in conduit. However, if it is run
along a wall, is there any need to enclose it or do anything special?

Thanks,
Martin

Ok educate me than, its been a while I've looked
anything up in NEC. What *section* of NEC you
were referring to that requires conduit for low
voltage cables like 12V landscape, TV coax,
telephone and thermostat control wires in the
house?

Low voltage cabling (in fact every current carrying conductor, no
matter what its intended purpose) attached to the house is indeed
subject to NEC. As mentioned in my prior post, my copy of the
current NEC is not on the PC I'm using at the moment. When I
return to the USA in late September (2005) I can give you the
references and/or post some quotes. Presumably you will have
found your answers by then but if you still need it let me know.

Have you ever seen conduits for those inside your
house besides the service entry points from the
street?

You can use conduit or a pass through bushing to bring low
voltage cables through the wall. As someone (yourself?) already
mentioned, the cable supplied with low voltage landscape lighting
is rated for exterior use, including direct burial so that's a
non-issue.

Most folks prefer to protect exposed low voltage cables in the
garage and though it's not required you may wish to consider
doing so as well. IME, cables in a garage which are not out of
reach are subject to damage from garden tools, car doors,
bicycles and other implements of destruction.

Hope this helps.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Our Township code says I need a permit for any job costing $200 or more.
If I buy a new panel (including a bunch of breakers) for $150 and reuse
most of the existing breakers in the new panel (thus staying under the
$200), where is the requirement for a permit?

(The main breakers are in the garage back-to-back with the meter, so I
can easily kill the power to the panel I'm replacing.)

Perce


On 09/04/05 12:44 pm tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Bear in mind plenty of people do service upgrades without perrmits and
I doubt anyone would say replacing a panelboard does not involve the
NEC.

Our Township code says I need a permit for any job
costing $200 or more. If I buy a new panel (including
a bunch of breakers) for $150 and reuse most of the
existing breakers in the new panel (thus staying under
the $200), where is the requirement for a permit?

If you stay under the limit you may well be OK. However, you
might also want to inquire about any *special* rules concerning
panel upgrades. Many locations insist on a permit / inspection
for service entrance upgrades due to the hazards involved.

Some towns and even some electric service providers insist that a
licensed electrician complete a service upgrade. I worked on my
own plumbing, electrical and other systems for many years but I
don't recommend that others do a service upgrade without at least
consulting an experienced tradesman.

(The main breakers are in the garage back-to-back with
the meter, so I can easily kill the power to the panel I'm
replacing.)

Note that in most (though not all) cases removing the meter head
from the pan kills the power to the panel. I have seen a few
cases where this was not so though. Most were illegal
connections where some doofus decided to cheat the electric
company out of a few dollars a month. Fortunately, most of the
DIYers I know are a lot smarter than that.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com