Why is my gas bill so high? Ideas?
 

I'm at a loss. I can't figure out why my gas bill is as high as it is,
while my neighbor's bills are MUCH lower.

I moved into this house a couple years ago and I've had sticker shock
every time the gas bill arrives. The new house matches my old one as
far as appliances as I brought them with me. The only difference is
the furnace and water heater.

As an example; the largest bill I've ever had at my old house was $125
where the largest bill to date at the new house was $320. The house is
bigger by 600sqft but that should only account for winter bills...

I use to think the old furnace was the culprit but my bills are high
all year around. (I even replaced it without much effect) A typical
bill at the old house was $12-$20... the new house never has a bill
below $100, even when the furnace is off all month!

I started suspecting that the meter was bad so I had NIPSCO come out
and check it several times until they replaced it on my insistance. It
didn't help. While they were there they checked of leaks too.

I just talked to the old owner of the house and found out that he too
had the meter swapped. So even he knew something was up.

So my gas bill last month was $101 and my neighbor's bills average $25.
I don't know what to do next. The only thing left to try is replacing
the water heater but I can't imagine that it is even capable of using
that much gas.

The NIPSCO guy shut the water heater off for 20 minutes and checked the
meter. No gas was used. This weekend I'm going to shut it off for a
few hours and see if the meter moves. When I relight the water heater
I'm going to see how much it consumes over X amount of time in case
it's a leak after the shut off valve.

In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions. If my natural gas bill
goes down, I might be able to fill my car up with the savings!

Thanks for reading this long post.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm at a loss. I can't figure out why my gas bill is as high as it is,
while my neighbor's bills are MUCH lower.

I moved into this house a couple years ago and I've had sticker shock
every time the gas bill arrives. The new house matches my old one as
far as appliances as I brought them with me. The only difference is
the furnace and water heater.

As an example; the largest bill I've ever had at my old house was $125
where the largest bill to date at the new house was $320. The house is
bigger by 600sqft but that should only account for winter bills...

I use to think the old furnace was the culprit but my bills are high
all year around. (I even replaced it without much effect) A typical
bill at the old house was $12-$20... the new house never has a bill
below $100, even when the furnace is off all month!

I started suspecting that the meter was bad so I had NIPSCO come out
and check it several times until they replaced it on my insistance. It
didn't help. While they were there they checked of leaks too.

I just talked to the old owner of the house and found out that he too
had the meter swapped. So even he knew something was up.

So my gas bill last month was $101 and my neighbor's bills average $25.
I don't know what to do next. The only thing left to try is replacing
the water heater but I can't imagine that it is even capable of using
that much gas.

The NIPSCO guy shut the water heater off for 20 minutes and checked the
meter. No gas was used. This weekend I'm going to shut it off for a
few hours and see if the meter moves. When I relight the water heater
I'm going to see how much it consumes over X amount of time in case
it's a leak after the shut off valve.

In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions. If my natural gas bill
goes down, I might be able to fill my car up with the savings!

Thanks for reading this long post.

Do the readings on your meter match those on your bill? Perhaps the meter
reader has been estimating your bill every month rather than actually
reading the meter. Is the meter hard to get to...I can imagine the reader
estimating a couple of times and then being afraid to actually read the
meter because of the big discrepancy between actual and estimated readings.
I had a big water bill once and when I checked the meter against the bill
there was a big difference. Water company swore that the meter had been
actually read but when I insisted on a new reading I got an amended bill
that was substantially less. And I lived in an apartment once...electric
was pretty cheap even though it was Arizona and hotter than blazes..When the
A/C ;quit, we found out that my A/C was wired to the upstairs apartment and
vice versa. The bachelors upstairs had been sleeping on the balcony to try
to keep their electric bill down. When they got their electric shut off due
to none payment, I lost my A/C.
I doubt you have a leak after the shut off on the water heater or you
wouldn't be here to post to this newsgroup. Is the neighbors bill a valid
comparison...he isn't running an all Electric house, is he?

Tom

You think that a water heater can make a $70-80 difference? Everyone I
talked to said no way. I'm thinking about replacing the water heater
anyway and see what difference it makes.

As for the gas leak, what if it was underground? I'm on a slab (both
old and new houses) and I've been wondering if a leak under the slab
wouldn't be as detectable.

Another way to check that would be to have a pressure test done.

And to Tom's reply, If it was an estimated bill it would eventually
catch up with me and I'd eventually have a low bill. In living here
2.5 years, I've never had a "low" bill.

1) What's the temperature of your water? Fill up a glass and stick in a meat
thermometer.

2) Any teenagers in the house?

3) How long's the average shower?

4) On the side of the water heater is tube from the pressure relief valve.
I've seen houses where that was extended to the edge of the floating slab
basement floor. If it was leaking, you'd never know it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm at a loss. I can't figure out why my gas bill is as high as it is,
while my neighbor's bills are MUCH lower.

I moved into this house a couple years ago and I've had sticker shock
every time the gas bill arrives. The new house matches my old one as
far as appliances as I brought them with me. The only difference is
the furnace and water heater.

As an example; the largest bill I've ever had at my old house was $125
where the largest bill to date at the new house was $320. The house is
bigger by 600sqft but that should only account for winter bills...

I use to think the old furnace was the culprit but my bills are high
all year around. (I even replaced it without much effect) A typical
bill at the old house was $12-$20... the new house never has a bill
below $100, even when the furnace is off all month!

I started suspecting that the meter was bad so I had NIPSCO come out
and check it several times until they replaced it on my insistance. It
didn't help. While they were there they checked of leaks too.

I just talked to the old owner of the house and found out that he too
had the meter swapped. So even he knew something was up.

So my gas bill last month was $101 and my neighbor's bills average $25.
I don't know what to do next. The only thing left to try is replacing
the water heater but I can't imagine that it is even capable of using
that much gas.

The NIPSCO guy shut the water heater off for 20 minutes and checked the
meter. No gas was used. This weekend I'm going to shut it off for a
few hours and see if the meter moves. When I relight the water heater
I'm going to see how much it consumes over X amount of time in case
it's a leak after the shut off valve.

In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions. If my natural gas bill
goes down, I might be able to fill my car up with the savings!

Thanks for reading this long post.

Never heard of this with gas, water and electricity yes a long time ago.

Turning your meter off is not the way to find out where the gas is going.
Leave the meter on and turn off ALL of the appliance valves. If the meter
moves now you know there is either a leak or another load.

If it is the water heater it would be running all of the time. I once had a
hot water line broken under the kitchen floor, gas bill went from 30 in the
summer to 70. Since the water heater was next to the washer it was pretty
easy to figure out that it was running all of the time. Water bill took a
leap as well.

I had a customer that bought 20 acres of land with a barn and a huge home on
it. I was called in when the kitchen was being remodeled and they needed new
electrical circuits. I went to the service and found no main but 6 200 amp
fusible switches. Ok a bit strange but nothing wrong so far. One switch had
no wires on it so we labeled it as a spare. Kitchen had a panel, barn had
two panels and the sleeping area of the house had a panel. That left one
switch unaccounted for, we continued with the remodel and the owner got the
first electric bill, well over $400.00 and it was not even hot yet in the
Arizona desert. Second bill was over $600.00. Owner was really upset. Rumors
had it that the previous owner was a drug dealer and there was a underground
storage room. I got a tracker and started chasing down the wires. Got to
the mystery wires and they ran straight off the property heading into
another development of homes. I waited until dark, I then turned off the
switch and low and behold the neighbors homes all when dark. I removed the
wiring from the switch and cut it off close to the concrete so it could
never be re connected again, per the owners orders. Electric bill dropped
to the $200 range.

Utility meters are historically accurate. I have seen 3 bad electrical
meters in 35 years. One was bad toward the customer. State regulators take a
dim view of a utility not having accurate equipment. I will bet you either
find another load or a leak.. I am betting on the load.

Does code allow for gas lines under a slab? I would do more
troubleshooting before spending money on a water heater that may not be
the problem. What about ceiling insulation. Is it good? Lots of heat can
go up though the ceiling.

Regards, Ross



wrote:
You think that a water heater can make a $70-80 difference? Everyone I
talked to said no way. I'm thinking about replacing the water heater
anyway and see what difference it makes.

As for the gas leak, what if it was underground? I'm on a slab (both
old and new houses) and I've been wondering if a leak under the slab
wouldn't be as detectable.

Another way to check that would be to have a pressure test done.

And to Tom's reply, If it was an estimated bill it would eventually
catch up with me and I'd eventually have a low bill. In living here
2.5 years, I've never had a "low" bill.

wrote in message
oups.com...
You think that a water heater can make a $70-80 difference? Everyone I
talked to said no way. I'm thinking about replacing the water heater
anyway and see what difference it makes.

As for the gas leak, what if it was underground? I'm on a slab (both
old and new houses) and I've been wondering if a leak under the slab
wouldn't be as detectable.

It may be the water heater, but not a gas leak. What about the water itself.
I saw a setup a neighbor made to have warm water for washing his car. He put
both hot and cold water to the outside faucet. I guess it was nice having
the warm water and regulating it from inside, but when the valves inside
were left opened, the hot water began to flow across into the cold water
lines in the house. Flush the toilet, use some hot water.

It is possible that a faucet in the house is not closing properly between
the hot and cold lines even though the water is not flowing out. It would
heat all the lines as the hot water moved through the system.

In article , Ross Richardson wrote:
Does code allow for gas lines under a slab? I would do more
troubleshooting before spending money on a water heater that may not be
the problem. What about ceiling insulation. Is it good? Lots of heat can
go up though the ceiling.

He's not losing enough heat through the ceiling to give him a $100 gas bill in
the *summer*, for Pete's sake.

My money is on a leaking hot water line.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

If you live in a condo, it may be that you're paying for some
common-area gas usage that's pretty constant. I'd look for another
load too, although it's hard to find because you can't separate the
feeds like you can with electricity.

In a local case, I discovered a condo owner was paying for common-area
electricity. In this case, the utility company stepped in, credited
the unit owner the estimated value of the electricity, and billed the
estimated amount to the condo association. If it's another load, your
gas company may be willing to do the same. In our case, it's state
law. You can research "Theft of Services" for your state.

Rock

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:45:25 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
I'm at a loss. I can't figure out why my gas bill is as high as it is,
while my neighbor's bills are MUCH lower.

I moved into this house a couple years ago and I've had sticker shock
every time the gas bill arrives. The new house matches my old one as
far as appliances as I brought them with me. The only difference is
the furnace and water heater.

As an example; the largest bill I've ever had at my old house was $125
where the largest bill to date at the new house was $320. The house is
bigger by 600sqft but that should only account for winter bills...

I use to think the old furnace was the culprit but my bills are high
all year around. (I even replaced it without much effect) A typical
bill at the old house was $12-$20... the new house never has a bill
below $100, even when the furnace is off all month!

I started suspecting that the meter was bad so I had NIPSCO come out
and check it several times until they replaced it on my insistance. It
didn't help. While they were there they checked of leaks too.

I just talked to the old owner of the house and found out that he too
had the meter swapped. So even he knew something was up.

So my gas bill last month was $101 and my neighbor's bills average $25.
I don't know what to do next. The only thing left to try is replacing
the water heater but I can't imagine that it is even capable of using
that much gas.

The NIPSCO guy shut the water heater off for 20 minutes and checked the
meter. No gas was used. This weekend I'm going to shut it off for a
few hours and see if the meter moves. When I relight the water heater
I'm going to see how much it consumes over X amount of time in case
it's a leak after the shut off valve.

In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions. If my natural gas bill
goes down, I might be able to fill my car up with the savings!

Thanks for reading this long post.

Never heard of this with gas, water and electricity yes a long time ago.

Turning your meter off is not the way to find out where the gas is going.
Leave the meter on and turn off ALL of the appliance valves. If the meter
moves now you know there is either a leak or another load.

If it is the water heater it would be running all of the time. I once had a
hot water line broken under the kitchen floor, gas bill went from 30 in the
summer to 70. Since the water heater was next to the washer it was pretty
easy to figure out that it was running all of the time. Water bill took a
leap as well.

I had a customer that bought 20 acres of land with a barn and a huge home on
it. I was called in when the kitchen was being remodeled and they needed new
electrical circuits. I went to the service and found no main but 6 200 amp
fusible switches. Ok a bit strange but nothing wrong so far. One switch had
no wires on it so we labeled it as a spare. Kitchen had a panel, barn had
two panels and the sleeping area of the house had a panel. That left one
switch unaccounted for, we continued with the remodel and the owner got the
first electric bill, well over $400.00 and it was not even hot yet in the
Arizona desert. Second bill was over $600.00. Owner was really upset. Rumors
had it that the previous owner was a drug dealer and there was a underground
storage room. I got a tracker and started chasing down the wires. Got to
the mystery wires and they ran straight off the property heading into
another development of homes. I waited until dark, I then turned off the
switch and low and behold the neighbors homes all when dark. I removed the
wiring from the switch and cut it off close to the concrete so it could
never be re connected again, per the owners orders. Electric bill dropped
to the $200 range.

Utility meters are historically accurate. I have seen 3 bad electrical
meters in 35 years. One was bad toward the customer. State regulators take a
dim view of a utility not having accurate equipment. I will bet you either
find another load or a leak.. I am betting on the load.

Rock wrote:

If you live in a condo, ...snip irrelevancy condos...

Read what OP wrote for crissakes...

wrote in message
roups.com...
....
I moved into this house a couple years ago ...
I just talked to the old owner of the house ...

How much more indication of single-occupancy residence do you need?

SQLit wrote:


snipped

I had a customer that bought 20 acres of land with a barn and a huge home on
it. I was called in when the kitchen was being remodeled and they needed new
electrical circuits. I went to the service and found no main but 6 200 amp
fusible switches. Ok a bit strange but nothing wrong so far. One switch had
no wires on it so we labeled it as a spare. Kitchen had a panel, barn had
two panels and the sleeping area of the house had a panel. That left one
switch unaccounted for, we continued with the remodel and the owner got the
first electric bill, well over $400.00 and it was not even hot yet in the
Arizona desert. Second bill was over $600.00. Owner was really upset. Rumors
had it that the previous owner was a drug dealer and there was a underground
storage room. I got a tracker and started chasing down the wires. Got to
the mystery wires and they ran straight off the property heading into
another development of homes. I waited until dark, I then turned off the
switch and low and behold the neighbors homes all when dark. I removed the
wiring from the switch and cut it off close to the concrete so it could
never be re connected again, per the owners orders. Electric bill dropped
to the $200 range.

Did you ever find out why things had been done that way?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

There's a lot of good feedback so far. I should look for a way to
pressure test the hot water lines in the house. Since I'm out in the
county I would think that I'd hear my water pump running at night if it
was a water leak. I'm not sure if there's a way to log the duty cycle.

Do you think it'd be worth while to see how much gas is used by the
water heater on a per minute basis? Maybe I could do the same test on
a different water heater (friends) and compare the results. I'm
guessing if I drain all the hot water and fill with cold I can time the
refresh cycle to get a therm per minute number for each water heater.
It'd also be good to time the refreash cycle.

I'm going to look for a date of manufacture on the water heater tonight
and if it's old enough I might just kick it to the curb... but I'll
wait until with weekend's "leak" test in hopes of finding another load.

feel the hot water pipe, is the water moving the the pipe evne though
no one is ung hot water.

sounds to me you have hot water flowing someplace and you are using
(wasting) gas to heat it.

Mark

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
SQLit wrote:


snipped

I had a customer that bought 20 acres of land with a barn and a huge
home on
it. I was called in when the kitchen was being remodeled and they needed
new
electrical circuits. I went to the service and found no main but 6 200
amp
fusible switches. Ok a bit strange but nothing wrong so far. One switch
had
no wires on it so we labeled it as a spare. Kitchen had a panel, barn
had
two panels and the sleeping area of the house had a panel. That left
one
switch unaccounted for, we continued with the remodel and the owner got
the
first electric bill, well over $400.00 and it was not even hot yet in
the
Arizona desert. Second bill was over $600.00. Owner was really upset.
Rumors
had it that the previous owner was a drug dealer and there was a
underground
storage room. I got a tracker and started chasing down the wires. Got
to
the mystery wires and they ran straight off the property heading into
another development of homes. I waited until dark, I then turned off
the
switch and low and behold the neighbors homes all when dark. I removed
the
wiring from the switch and cut it off close to the concrete so it could
never be re connected again, per the owners orders. Electric bill
dropped
to the $200 range.

Did you ever find out why things had been done that way?

Jeff

Yes turns out one of the neighbors was the original "developer" of all the
land. He at one time was trying to build a resort. Hence the service with
fusible disconnects. Time went by and he "forgot" that there was a need for
him to get his own electrical service. The water was shared by all of the
parcels. The other property owners took him to court and he got his hand
slapped. As near as I could find out it had been that way for 10-12 years.
I guess the previous owner just did not notice or care about the electric
bill.

Check the water lines leading to the washing machine. When they hooked
mine up they switched hot and cold. If they did that to you, and you
do a lot of laundry in cold water, you could be using a lot of hot
water and never know it.

And I'm sure someone else said check the temperature setting on the
water heater. If you're keeping a tank of water at 150 degrees that'd
use a bit more gas than you'd like to pay for.

Okay, to answer your questions. 2 adults and a 2 year old live here.
air furnace, stove, dryer and water heater. The stove and dryer came
from our old house which is about 2 miles away. My home is a 1700 sqft
brick ranch. Since I have a well, I pump my own water and I can hear
when it's on. It does not come on without us using water. Also, that
would imply that the burner runs non-stop. Since I'm on a slab it's in
the hallway that I pass regularly and I can hear that it's not on all
the time.

My August bill said I used 73 therms (72ccf) with my bill being $101.25

I took pictures of the flame and outside of the water heater. The
pilot flame was fairly large but I didn't get any pictures of it. You
can see the pics here...
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daveba...lbum?.dir=6645

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm at a loss. I can't figure out why my gas bill is as high as it is,
while my neighbor's bills are MUCH lower.

I moved into this house a couple years ago and I've had sticker shock
every time the gas bill arrives. The new house matches my old one as
far as appliances as I brought them with me. The only difference is
the furnace and water heater.

As an example; the largest bill I've ever had at my old house was $125
where the largest bill to date at the new house was $320. The house is
bigger by 600sqft but that should only account for winter bills...

I use to think the old furnace was the culprit but my bills are high
all year around. (I even replaced it without much effect) A typical
bill at the old house was $12-$20... the new house never has a bill
below $100, even when the furnace is off all month!


Does your gas co. have a some sort of bill equalization program? The gas co.
where I live has a program where you pay more in summer and less in winter
in an attempt to make the bills near the same all year round. They do an
adjustment a couple of times a year to catch up if needed. Maybe you have
that and don't know it? The user has to sign up for the program, I don't
use it.
FYI - I had a bad water heater my bill was went from $15 in one summer to $7
with the new water heater.
Kevin

SQLit wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

SQLit wrote:


snipped

I had a customer that bought 20 acres of land with a barn and a huge

home on

it. I was called in when the kitchen was being remodeled and they needed

new

electrical circuits. I went to the service and found no main but 6 200

amp

fusible switches. Ok a bit strange but nothing wrong so far. One switch

had

no wires on it so we labeled it as a spare. Kitchen had a panel, barn

had

two panels and the sleeping area of the house had a panel. That left

one

switch unaccounted for, we continued with the remodel and the owner got

the

first electric bill, well over $400.00 and it was not even hot yet in

the

Arizona desert. Second bill was over $600.00. Owner was really upset.

Rumors

had it that the previous owner was a drug dealer and there was a

underground

storage room. I got a tracker and started chasing down the wires. Got

to

the mystery wires and they ran straight off the property heading into
another development of homes. I waited until dark, I then turned off

the

switch and low and behold the neighbors homes all when dark. I removed

the

wiring from the switch and cut it off close to the concrete so it could
never be re connected again, per the owners orders. Electric bill

dropped

to the $200 range.

Did you ever find out why things had been done that way?

Jeff


Yes turns out one of the neighbors was the original "developer" of all the
land. He at one time was trying to build a resort. Hence the service with
fusible disconnects. Time went by and he "forgot" that there was a need for
him to get his own electrical service. The water was shared by all of the
parcels. The other property owners took him to court and he got his hand
slapped. As near as I could find out it had been that way for 10-12 years.
I guess the previous owner just did not notice or care about the electric
bill.



My house was similar. Its a newer house along with 4 other houes on the
block. Same builder. The house next door was not finished and while
nobody occupied the house we bought, he ran power lines from it to the
house next door to power the sump and work tools, etc.

We even put it in our purchase agreement that he could keep it for a few
months and would pay us. He wasnt drawing much juice as nobody lived
there, but we had to hold his nuts to the fire to get it disconnected,
lol. It was a cobbled up extension coard so I could have unplugged it
at anytime, but the basement would have flooded in that house. He just
got lazy I guess.


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D

Yargnits wrote:
Okay, to answer your questions. 2 adults and a 2 year old live here.
air furnace, stove, dryer and water heater. The stove and dryer came
from our old house which is about 2 miles away. My home is a 1700 sqft
brick ranch. Since I have a well, I pump my own water and I can hear
when it's on. It does not come on without us using water. Also, that
would imply that the burner runs non-stop. Since I'm on a slab it's in
the hallway that I pass regularly and I can hear that it's not on all
the time.

My August bill said I used 73 therms (72ccf) with my bill being $101.25

I took pictures of the flame and outside of the water heater. The
pilot flame was fairly large but I didn't get any pictures of it. You
can see the pics here...
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daveba...lbum?.dir=6645


There is also the possibility that the neighboor's gas bill is unusually
low. Check a 2nd neighboor.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D