insulation of water pipes behind the wall of a finished attic
 

We live in the Boston area. We bought our current house a year ago. The
attic is finished with heat. This past winder, all the water pipes to
the attic's bathroom got frozen on a very cold day. We had some
temporary solutions so that the pipes didn't freeze again.

Now I am trying to find a perminant solution. I opened the attic
bedroom's wall and found that the water pipes laying on the floor of
the unheated trangular area behind the wall. Because of the ventilation
required, I guess the area where pipes are can get very cold. Currently
there are some tapes wrapped around the pipes but not completely.

I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

Thanks,

-Mike

Mike wrote:
We live in the Boston area. We bought our current house a year ago. The
attic is finished with heat. This past winder, all the water pipes to
the attic's bathroom got frozen on a very cold day. We had some
temporary solutions so that the pipes didn't freeze again.

Now I am trying to find a perminant solution. I opened the attic
bedroom's wall and found that the water pipes laying on the floor of
the unheated trangular area behind the wall. Because of the ventilation
required, I guess the area where pipes are can get very cold. Currently
there are some tapes wrapped around the pipes but not completely.

I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

Thanks,

-Mike

Don't just put insulation on top of the pipes, you need to leave the
pipes exposed to the heated space to keep them from freezing.

What I did in our finished attic was to put the pipes inside the knee
wall and then add a second set of studs in the knee wall directly
behind the existing studs, basically a wall as thick as two 2x4s. I
put insulation in the outer section of 2x4s, with the pipes between the
insulation and the heated space, and the insulation is the barrier
between the pipes and the unheated "exterior" triangular space behind
the knee wall.

Ken

Mike wrote:
We live in the Boston area. We bought our current house a year ago.
The attic is finished with heat. This past winder, all the water
pipes to the attic's bathroom got frozen on a very cold day. We had
some temporary solutions so that the pipes didn't freeze again.

Now I am trying to find a perminant solution. I opened the attic
bedroom's wall and found that the water pipes laying on the floor of
the unheated trangular area behind the wall. Because of the
ventilation required, I guess the area where pipes are can get very
cold. Currently there are some tapes wrapped around the pipes but not
completely.

I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

Thanks,

-Mike

You need more than insulation. All insulation can do is to slow
cooling.

When you run water in the pipes they warm up. Assuming they are in an
area that is below freezing, they will then start cooling towards freezing.
If you run water often enough, they don't freeze. Adding insulation slows
the freezing, but it will not stop it.

You need to add heat to those pipes. That means heating the areas they
are in or using an electrical heat tape made for that use to keep them warm.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
We live in the Boston area. We bought our current house a year ago. The
attic is finished with heat. This past winder, all the water pipes to
the attic's bathroom got frozen on a very cold day. We had some
temporary solutions so that the pipes didn't freeze again.

Now I am trying to find a perminant solution. I opened the attic
bedroom's wall and found that the water pipes laying on the floor of
the unheated trangular area behind the wall. Because of the ventilation
required, I guess the area where pipes are can get very cold. Currently
there are some tapes wrapped around the pipes but not completely.

I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

Thanks,

-Mike

Another solution might be to install a hot water recycle pump up there. You
could put it on a t-stat so that it would run on the coldest days. And or
add a push button for getting hot water up to the area faster. These
connect under the sink and it pull hot water and injects into the cold water
pipe. Moving water does not freeze as fast.

I grew up in Iowa and we had a well, if it stayed below -10 for a couple of
days dad would just put the kitchen sink on slow drip so that during the
night the pump would have to turn on and run a couple of times.

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
We live in the Boston area. We bought our current house a year ago. The
attic is finished with heat. This past winder, all the water pipes to
the attic's bathroom got frozen on a very cold day. We had some
temporary solutions so that the pipes didn't freeze again.

Now I am trying to find a perminant solution. I opened the attic
bedroom's wall and found that the water pipes laying on the floor of
the unheated trangular area behind the wall. Because of the ventilation
required, I guess the area where pipes are can get very cold. Currently
there are some tapes wrapped around the pipes but not completely.

I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

Thanks,

-Mike

Another solution might be to install a hot water recycle pump up there.
You
could put it on a t-stat so that it would run on the coldest days. And
or
add a push button for getting hot water up to the area faster. These
connect under the sink and it pull hot water and injects into the cold
water
pipe. Moving water does not freeze as fast.

I grew up in Iowa and we had a well, if it stayed below -10 for a couple
of
days dad would just put the kitchen sink on slow drip so that during the
night the pump would have to turn on and run a couple of times.



I agree, especially if the system is one that returns the (cooled hot) water
through the cold water line rather than a dedicated hot return. If you use
a hot return pipe, you can couple the pipes together so the hot pipe can
keep the cold one from freezing.

If rebuilding the pipe space (to keep it in the heated space), or hot water
return are not practical solutions then an electric pipe wrap would be
apporpriate. Basically an electric blanket for the pipe. Need to inspect
it yearly the verify its always working though as they can deteriorate over
time.

"Mike" wrote in message
I am thinking of buying more tapes and wrap the pipes more carefully
and tightly. Also, put some extra insulation on top of the pipes. Is
this enough? Last winder the lowest temp was -10F here.

If not, what's a good solution of the problem.

You want to insulate between the pipes and the cold side. You want to let
the heated air in on the room side.

Insulating the pipes may not help over time. If the pipe is wrapped and no
other heat source, the heat will eventually travel from the water to the
cooler area and freeze the pipe. It just takes longer if insulated but if no
heat is added, it will lose what heat is there.

Thanks, guys.

Looks like the simplest suggested solution is to use heat tape. I was
hesitating to use them because of the safty concern. Are they safe?

For the more complicated suggestions, I will do a little more research
to decide on one.

move the pipes and/or use pex


"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks, guys.

Looks like the simplest suggested solution is to use heat tape. I was
hesitating to use them because of the safty concern. Are they safe?

For the more complicated suggestions, I will do a little more research
to decide on one.

"Mike" wrote:

Looks like the simplest suggested solution is to use heat tape. I was
hesitating to use them because of the safty concern. Are they safe?

A plumber I know says no. A Home Depot employee told me they no
longer sell some forms for liability reasons. Another solution is
to put a thermostat near the coldest part of the pipe (eg an EH38
"Easy Heat thermostatically controlled device" ($10.99 at Lowe's))
in series with a solenoid valve from an old washing machine that
lets some some water flow out of the pipe when it's too cold.

Nick

Mike wrote:
Thanks, guys.

Looks like the simplest suggested solution is to use heat tape. I was
hesitating to use them because of the safty concern. Are they safe?

No. Heat tape causes plenty of house fires.

MM

For the more complicated suggestions, I will do a little more research
to decide on one.

Add to that the cost of a wireless or wired smoke detector with lithium
battery (10 year life). a pair of wireless smoke detectors goes off at the
same time but are pricy at $80 a pair. Wired detectors are cheap but you
have to put in a wire which is not easy.

Hence my recommendation for yearly inspection (at beginnnig of cold season)



"Mark Monson" wrote in message
.. .
Mike wrote:
Thanks, guys.

Looks like the simplest suggested solution is to use heat tape. I was
hesitating to use them because of the safty concern. Are they safe?

No. Heat tape causes plenty of house fires.

MM

For the more complicated suggestions, I will do a little more research
to decide on one.

insulation of water pipes behind the wall of a finished attic
 

replying to Joseph Meehan, citywideplumbingsfbay wrote:
Thank you! very useful information!

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