Cutting an asbestos sheet?
 

Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield may
be required behind the burning unit itself.

Terry wrote:

Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

As in the US... :)

.....

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

For a one-time operation I wouldn't be particularly concerned if take
reasonable precautions...all instances of which I am aware are long-term
exposures, not one-time.


....

"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may be required behind the burning unit itself.


why wouild you install a health hazard which you need to disclose in writing
to the next buyer (who will want you to remove it anyway) when you can just
go to HD and buy a sheet of cement backer board for $10. If you have the
tools to fashon sheet metal then I think that is a no-brainer.

Really, would you use a can of old Lead paint if you had one?

You should paint the asbestos board, put it in a plastic bag, label it and
bring it to the dump on household haz mat day (if you have one) before you
are tempted to use it again.

PipeDown wrote:

why wouild you install a health hazard which you need to disclose in
writing to the next buyer (who will want you to remove it anyway)
when you can just go to HD and buy a sheet of cement backer board for
$10. If you have the tools to fashon sheet metal then I think that
is a no-brainer.

1. Because asbestos is not a health hazard, and
2. He's got it on hand, and
3. He wants to prevent a fire.

You are correct, though. Hysteria over asbestos is characteristic of those
whose brains are merely painted on.


Really, would you use a can of old Lead paint if you had one?

Sure. Why not? Lead paint is hazardous only to toddlers who bite it. It is
unlikely, for instance, for a toddler to be found gnawing on a gutter.


You should paint the asbestos board, put it in a plastic bag, label
it and bring it to the dump on household haz mat day (if you have
one) before you are tempted to use it again.

If you just want to be rid of it, you could leave it in a school yard the
next dark night.

"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may
be required behind the burning unit itself.

Inquiring minds have to know. Why do you have a sheet of hazardous materials
laying around?
Burying the pieces that is not smart either.

Personally I would not install asbestos anything. When you sell your house
this becomes a disclosure issue.
a layer or 2 of 5/8 fire rock would do the trick and not be on anyone's
list.
Your really sure about the "Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements. "? What about the building department? I find it hard to
imagine my insurance company liking the idea of installing asbestos.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
PipeDown wrote:

why wouild you install a health hazard which you need to disclose in
writing to the next buyer (who will want you to remove it anyway)
when you can just go to HD and buy a sheet of cement backer board for
$10. If you have the tools to fashon sheet metal then I think that
is a no-brainer.

1. Because asbestos is not a health hazard, and
2. He's got it on hand, and
3. He wants to prevent a fire.

You are correct, though. Hysteria over asbestos is characteristic of those
whose brains are merely painted on.


Really, would you use a can of old Lead paint if you had one?

Sure. Why not? Lead paint is hazardous only to toddlers who bite it. It is
unlikely, for instance, for a toddler to be found gnawing on a gutter.


You should paint the asbestos board, put it in a plastic bag, label
it and bring it to the dump on household haz mat day (if you have
one) before you are tempted to use it again.

If you just want to be rid of it, you could leave it in a school yard the
next dark night.


Well, there is always one in every crowd who does whatever the hell they
want without regard for anyone who might come along after them because they
are too lazy or too cheap to do it the right way.

(Normally, I ignore trolls like this one but its a slow work day today)

In article , Terry
wrote:

Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

It won't hurt you under those conditions. If it does, you know where to
find me to say I was wrong.

Asbestosis is a chronic lung disease found almost exclusively in people
with *heavy,* *long-term* exposure to raw airborne fibers, such as
miners. Virtually no consumers (people with low to moderate exposure to
*processed* asbestos) have been affected.

Yeah, it killed a few people. It made a bunch of lawyers rich. It
bankrupted several multinational corporations. But Criminy, it ain't
plutonium or anthrax.

-Frank

--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

SQLit wrote:

"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may
be required behind the burning unit itself.

Inquiring minds have to know. Why do you have a sheet of hazardous materials
laying around?
Burying the pieces that is not smart either.

Personally I would not install asbestos anything. When you sell your house
this becomes a disclosure issue.
a layer or 2 of 5/8 fire rock would do the trick and not be on anyone's
list.
Your really sure about the "Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements. "? What about the building department? I find it hard to
imagine my insurance company liking the idea of installing asbestos.

Solid sheet isn't the problem w/ asbestos--it's airborne particles that
are the issue although the very word seems to strike fear wherever it's
even uttered any more... :(

PipeDown wrote:
"Terry" wrote in message
.. .

Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may be required behind the burning unit itself.



why wouild you install a health hazard which you need to disclose in writing
to the next buyer (who will want you to remove it anyway) when you can just
go to HD and buy a sheet of cement backer board for $10. If you have the
tools to fashon sheet metal then I think that is a no-brainer.

Really, would you use a can of old Lead paint if you had one?

You should paint the asbestos board, put it in a plastic bag, label it and
bring it to the dump on household haz mat day (if you have one) before you
are tempted to use it again.



I agree with your first part and there are
alternatives to asbestos. If I were the OP, I
would go ahead and do the asbestos and install it
and have it inspected. I would use hand tools
outside, but that is the only precaution.

After the inspection, I would remove it and
install a sheet of thin aluminum as a shield held
2-3 inches above the horizontal pipe. It should
be slightly curved and can be held on the pipe
with thin aluminum struts. That will provide
much more safety than the asbestos sheet. The
asbestos sheet will get hot and will transfer heat
to the ceiling structure. The shield will not
transfer heat directly to the ceiling and the
radiant heating will be very small. In fact, the
temperature of the ceiling will probably only rise
4-5 degrees above the rest of the ceiling.

Ask me how I know. Because I have tested thin
aluminum shields. The approved ceramic barrier
behind my stove would get very hot, but
interposing a sheet of aluminum between the stove
and the ceramic barrier resulted in the barrier
temperature rising insignificantly more than the
air temperature in the room.

Asbestos is only dangerous if you work with it for several years. Or if you
get a mega dose. That stress you're experiencing (worrying about it) is
worse than the asbestos. I've worked with it (brakes) a bunch of times, and
I'm ferpektly nermal.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield may
be required behind the burning unit itself.

Yeah, so what if asbestos is not _really_ that dangerous to consumers.
Our university buildings seem to have posted asbestos removal notices
basically non-stop, rotating from one building to another. They do all
this with just some basic precautions to keep the dust down, and just
keep employees or students from haning out in the work areas.

But yet, poster above had it right. It would be stupid to put asbestos
in, or lead paint. Go spend the $10 and get a cement board. Whe selling
the property, you have to disclose asbestos and lead paint. Those are
check marks against you, and you will pay for it -- either in lost
potential buyers (stupid ones, perhaps, but as a seller, you _want_
stupid buyers), or in the cost of removing it and replacing it as part
of the sale, or in just a lower price for the home.

-Kevin
(Oh, and about that lead paint nonsense posted above... paint has a
habit of flaking off, peeling, or just getting worn, which tends to end
up in the air, on window sills, on the grass and dirt around our
houses, etc. It's pretty clear that poster has no children that they
value, and doesn't know smack about their behavior. Got neighbors?
Visitors? Might you someday sell the house? Die? Children eat all sorts
of stuff. Noses 2'' from the ground and all, rolling around in lead
dust, getting on their hands and clothes, and yes, chewing on things we
try to teach them (patiently, over time) not to chew on.)

"kevin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah, so what if asbestos is not _really_ that dangerous to consumers.
Our university buildings seem to have posted asbestos removal notices
basically non-stop, rotating from one building to another. They do all
this with just some basic precautions to keep the dust down, and just
keep employees or students from haning out in the work areas.

But yet, poster above had it right. It would be stupid to put asbestos
in, or lead paint. Go spend the $10 and get a cement board. Whe selling
the property, you have to disclose asbestos and lead paint. Those are
check marks against you, and you will pay for it -- either in lost
potential buyers (stupid ones, perhaps, but as a seller, you _want_
stupid buyers), or in the cost of removing it and replacing it as part
of the sale, or in just a lower price for the home.

-Kevin
(Oh, and about that lead paint nonsense posted above... paint has a
habit of flaking off, peeling, or just getting worn, which tends to end
up in the air, on window sills, on the grass and dirt around our
houses, etc. It's pretty clear that poster has no children that they
value, and doesn't know smack about their behavior. Got neighbors?
Visitors? Might you someday sell the house? Die? Children eat all sorts
of stuff. Noses 2'' from the ground and all, rolling around in lead
dust, getting on their hands and clothes, and yes, chewing on things we
try to teach them (patiently, over time) not to chew on.)


Exactly, its not about the immediate health concerns to you but the
legalally required disclosures which will damage the value of your home.
It is easy to install asbestos and lead paint (safely) but it is exceedingly
expensive to get rid of it later when it does wear out.

"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above, not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch
below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may
be required behind the burning unit itself.



Back when I was a kid and there were still dinosaurs running around we used
a foot-operated chopping cutter to cut asbestos sheets. There's a name for
the type of machine but I can't seem to recall it--must be brain damage from
too much exposure to asbestos.

Anyway, you might be able to score it and snap it. Probabaly less exposure
to airbourne fibers than if you use a saw.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
PipeDown wrote:
"Terry" wrote in message
.. .

Knowing that Asbestos now banned in many jurisdictions.

I need to put a heat shield above my wood stove flue because where it
enters the masonry it is only 14 inches below the floor joists above,
not
the required 18 inches. Shield will be fastened to and spaced about one
inch below the ceiling joists meeting Fire Dept. inspection and
insurance
requirements.

Happen to have a suitable piece quarter inch asbestos sheet which needs
trimming. The cutting length will be about 30 inches. Also will drill
four
or six holes. Probably do this by hand rather than power tools to avoid
cracking the sheet and/or blowing dust around.

Intend to cut outside with asbestos soaking wet, wearing a mask. And
will
carefully wipe up and bury any wet dust/residue underground under trees.

Any comments on this please.

Or maybe should I just fashion a piece of sheet metal for a heat shield?

Later if/when I 'finish' the existing vertical poured concrete wall
behind
the wood stove, a similar spacing situation will occur and a heat shield
may be required behind the burning unit itself.



why wouild you install a health hazard which you need to disclose in
writing
to the next buyer (who will want you to remove it anyway) when you can
just
go to HD and buy a sheet of cement backer board for $10. If you have
the
tools to fashon sheet metal then I think that is a no-brainer.

Really, would you use a can of old Lead paint if you had one?

You should paint the asbestos board, put it in a plastic bag, label it
and
bring it to the dump on household haz mat day (if you have one) before
you
are tempted to use it again.



I agree with your first part and there are
alternatives to asbestos. If I were the OP, I
would go ahead and do the asbestos and install it
and have it inspected. I would use hand tools
outside, but that is the only precaution.

After the inspection, I would remove it and
install a sheet of thin aluminum as a shield held
2-3 inches above the horizontal pipe. It should
be slightly curved and can be held on the pipe
with thin aluminum struts. That will provide
much more safety than the asbestos sheet. The
asbestos sheet will get hot and will transfer heat
to the ceiling structure.

My experience with asbestos is that it does not transfer heat. Aside from
being virtually impenetrable to flames this is one of the reasons is was
such a wonder material.

The shield will not
transfer heat directly to the ceiling and the
radiant heating will be very small. In fact, the
temperature of the ceiling will probably only rise
4-5 degrees above the rest of the ceiling.

Ask me how I know. Because I have tested thin
aluminum shields. The approved ceramic barrier
behind my stove would get very hot, but
interposing a sheet of aluminum between the stove
and the ceramic barrier resulted in the barrier
temperature rising insignificantly more than the
air temperature in the room.

Just bite it with your teeth. No only will you cut it, but you'll
have a tasty meal, too.

"PanHandles " wrote in message
news:1123189881.61f4faeed012c6cf650d2a772ecd058f@b ubbanews...
Just bite it with your teeth. No only will you cut it, but you'll
have a tasty meal, too.

Truth is, it is perfectly safe to do just that.

Ulysses wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
((snipped))
After the inspection, I would remove it and
install a sheet of thin aluminum as a shield held
2-3 inches above the horizontal pipe. It should
be slightly curved and can be held on the pipe
with thin aluminum struts. That will provide
much more safety than the asbestos sheet. The
asbestos sheet will get hot and will transfer heat
to the ceiling structure.


My experience with asbestos is that it does not transfer heat. Aside from
being virtually impenetrable to flames this is one of the reasons is was
such a wonder material.

The shield will not

Asbestos doesn't burn and it does have insulating
properties, but it does transmit heat.

Let's see, the ceiling is directly over the pipe
which could be 300 to 500 degrees and radiating
heat like mad. When that radiated heat strikes
the asbestos sheet what happens. Some is
reflected some is absorbed some is reradiated.
This is a continuous process for hours, not short
term. The sheet will reach a specific temperature
and the back of the sheet against the ceiling will
be that temperature, which may be high enough to
damage the wood structure. It is nice that
asbestos doesn't burn but it won't stop wood
charing and damage on the back side if the front
side is heated high enough for a long enough time.