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  #1   Report Post  
badgolferman
 
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Default a/c fan squeals

My home A/C Carrier brand outside unit fan is squealing. It is
probably 15 years old but I don't know for sure since I've lived here
for seven years and the house was built in 1990. When I bang on the
cover it goes away for a while.

Is this something I can remove and grease the bearings or is it a
sealed unit and not worth fixing?

If I call a repairman what should I expect pricewise?

If this is repairable any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

--
No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.
  #2   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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Usually not dificult for a repairman to reoil a fan motor.

Since it hasn't had maint in a while, it needs cleaning, and check the
freon. I'd expect the clean and check special, under a hundred bucks.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"badgolferman" wrote in message
...
My home A/C Carrier brand outside unit fan is squealing. It is
probably 15 years old but I don't know for sure since I've lived here
for seven years and the house was built in 1990. When I bang on the
cover it goes away for a while.

Is this something I can remove and grease the bearings or is it a
sealed unit and not worth fixing?

If I call a repairman what should I expect pricewise?

If this is repairable any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

--
No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.


  #3   Report Post  
Stretch
 
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Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch

  #4   Report Post  
QUIRT EVANS
 
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most all newer fan motors are sealed and will need to be replaced.

  #5   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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badgolferman wrote:
My home A/C Carrier brand outside unit fan is squealing. It is
probably 15 years old but I don't know for sure since I've lived here
for seven years and the house was built in 1990. When I bang on the
cover it goes away for a while.

Is this something I can remove and grease the bearings or is it a
sealed unit and not worth fixing?

If I call a repairman what should I expect pricewise?

If this is repairable any advice would be welcome. Thanks.


Getting to the fan and the motor should be
relatively easy. Remove a few screws and the top
will pull off. Turn the power off first. With
the top off, rotate the fan and feel if it is
rough. A 20 year old motor will usually have
dimples where the oil will go into the bearings.
To do a good job of oiling, you need to take it
out, remove the end caps, and clean the shafts,
but you can just add some oil with a plastic
bottle that has a long flexible spout such as Zoom
Oil. I would use a maximum of 10 drops on each
end. Turn the power on and try it before putting
the top back on, then turn the power off, do
whatever, and put the top back on.



  #6   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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Stretch wrote:
Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is
shot. And, $200 to $350 for a motor is a rip off.
What is to diagnose? it either continues to
squeal after adding oil or it doesn't.
Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how
klutzy one is--unplug the fan wires and remove a
few bolts.

If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has
any mechanical skills, he ought get the model
number, go to a parts place and order the motor
(and fan blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of
which he spent talking to me and answering my
questions.
  #7   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
Stretch wrote:
Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is shot. And, $200 to $350 for
a motor is a rip off. What is to diagnose? it either continues to squeal after
adding oil or it doesn't. Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how klutzy one is--unplug the fan
wires and remove a few bolts.

If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has any mechanical skills, he
ought get the model number, go to a parts place and order the motor (and fan
blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and oil
the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking to me and
answering my questions.


This is Turtle

George , I have never changed a fan motor , from start of figuring out what it
is to driving off , in 30 minutes in my life. in most cases you will spend 2
hours travel time , changing the motor, and writting the bill but you might be
faster.

Now George did you hear the words Carrier condenser unit fan motor which can be
about 15 years of age. That would be the carrier Condenser fan motor with wing
ears on it and cost me about $120.00 + Tax, and capasitor. So Figure about
$145.00 atleast. Then the truck , me, the help will get about $100.00 out of
this. So your looking at $245.00+ atleast if i give the motor to you at
wholesale. If not your looking at $345.00 + here.

George , I live in the Depressed income area and these are the prices here and
you must be Super Depressed to say Less than $200.00 for a Carrier wing Ear
motor.

TURTLE


  #8   Report Post  
Gideon
 
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QUIRT EVANS wrote:

most all newer fan motors are sealed

Somewhat true.

and will need to be replaced.

Absolutely not true.





  #9   Report Post  
Dr. Hardcrab
 
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"George E. Cawthon" wrote

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking
to me and answering my questions.


Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.


  #10   Report Post  
badgolferman
 
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Stretch, 7/17/2005, 10:08:48 PM,
.com wrote:

Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It
is usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil
ports on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


What about light machine oil -- 5W? Is that the same as sewing machine
oil or penetrating oil?

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.


  #11   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
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Default


"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:1HMCe.5937$N91.3302@trnddc08...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and oil
the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking to me
and answering my questions.


Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.


This is Turtle.

Bubba is George's Brother in law and had not seen each other in a week or so .

TURTLE


  #12   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"badgolferman" wrote in message
...
Stretch, 7/17/2005, 10:08:48 PM,
.com wrote:

Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It
is usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil
ports on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


What about light machine oil -- 5W? Is that the same as sewing machine
oil or penetrating oil?

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.


This is Turtle.

Sewing Machine oil yes but NO penetrating oil at all.

Most Manufactor will say 20 Weight oil.
I use 20-W-40 weight oil or straight 30 weight oil.
Anyweight oil you use is better than no weight oil at all.

Don't Use WD-40, LPS, 777, 3 in 1 oil, or any penetrating oil product.

TURTLE


  #13   Report Post  
 
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"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
Stretch wrote:
Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is
shot. And, $200 to $350 for a motor is a rip off.
What is to diagnose? it either continues to
squeal after adding oil or it doesn't.
Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how
klutzy one is--unplug the fan wires and remove a
few bolts.


Yea...ok.
How about a two speed Trane, or York fan? American Standard two speed?
Wholesale is over $200 for those.
What about a Carrier OEM motor? Totaline LOVES those...almost $150 for one.



If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has
any mechanical skills, he ought get the model
number, go to a parts place and order the motor
(and fan blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of
which he spent talking to me and answering my
questions.


No way he did it correctly then, since in order to " add gas" properly, you
have to check subcool, or super heat and this takes at least 15 minutes to
do properly. Then, after adding, he has to recheck it again. BTW, the
pressures mean NOTHING. Nada....One of my guage sets does not even have
pressures on it, but temps, depending on the refrigerant in question.
Hint...its not the pressure that matters as much as the temps of the
refrigerant in question, based upon the superheat, or subcool.

He stole your $50 man....even if you think its working fine, he stole your
money....reached right in your pocket and stole it.
20 minutes for $50...hes charging over $100 per hour for stealing.
Damn..I gotta raise my rates since we do it right....

  #14   Report Post  
 
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Not really applicable. OP did say something about 15 yrs old.

With newer motors, in case of bearing failure, you may be able to press
bearing(s) off/on- or any competent motor shop. That is how they're
assembled. Sometimes you can get some lube in with an oiler that's like
a hypodermic, through the lip-seal. Never say never.

No matter- Grainger or other supplier should be able to find
replacement for current stuff.

HTH,
J

  #15   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote


Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking
to me and answering my questions.



Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.



Sceptic and snotty, huh? Well it was relay 15
percent more but they give a discount for old people.

He used pressure gauges, etc. to see if it was
running correctly and added 1/2 pound. Highly
professional and double checked everything. Same
company that installed the AC about 25 years ago.

"I hate to see what happens if you have a real
problem." Me too! Probably cost a lot, but I'll
call this guy or the company in a heartbeat.

Oh yeah, he didn't give me any bull**** about a
relay going bad (about $150) and the compressor
being weak (probably going to fail) because it
didn't pull enough current which was what the
company that installed my gas furnace did on a
free inspection of the AC.

Yep, too bad repair persons around here are
competent and charge reasonable amounts. Probably
will get the incompetents and high chargers in a
few more years when all the honest people are
replaced by infiltratetees from California.


  #16   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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TURTLE wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Stretch wrote:

Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is shot. And, $200 to $350 for
a motor is a rip off. What is to diagnose? it either continues to squeal after
adding oil or it doesn't. Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how klutzy one is--unplug the fan
wires and remove a few bolts.

If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has any mechanical skills, he
ought get the model number, go to a parts place and order the motor (and fan
blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and oil
the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking to me and
answering my questions.



This is Turtle

George , I have never changed a fan motor , from start of figuring out what it
is to driving off , in 30 minutes in my life. in most cases you will spend 2
hours travel time , changing the motor, and writting the bill but you might be
faster.

Now George did you hear the words Carrier condenser unit fan motor which can be
about 15 years of age. That would be the carrier Condenser fan motor with wing
ears on it and cost me about $120.00 + Tax, and capasitor. So Figure about
$145.00 atleast. Then the truck , me, the help will get about $100.00 out of
this. So your looking at $245.00+ atleast if i give the motor to you at
wholesale. If not your looking at $345.00 + here.

George , I live in the Depressed income area and these are the prices here and
you must be Super Depressed to say Less than $200.00 for a Carrier wing Ear
motor.

TURTLE



Ah yes, but that 1/2 hour estimate assumes the
home owner does it not a repairman. He is already
there, tools are there, and he doesn't spend any
time writing a bill. I'm probably full of it, as
I said replacement, but I really meant removal
only. Removal of 6-8 screw would get the top off
in 2 minutes; I can't imagine not removing the fan
motor would take 28 minutes. I've looked at my
Carrier fan motor and never saw anything
particularly magnificent about it. Seems to be
about the same as any sub $100 motor.

It really doesn't make any difference how you
distribute the costs, $350 to change a fan motor
is ridiculous. $145 wholesale for the fan motor
is ridiculous. Lots of things are ridiculous,
including $20 a pound for steak, $300,000
automobile, $5000 TV, etc. Somebody(s) along the
line are getting a rakeoff as equivalent motors in
other machines are much cheaper, probably just a
price upgrade because it is AD. Heck it might
cost $3000 to change the fan if you live on a far
off island, that doesn't make the $3000 not
ridiculous. The simple fact is that a good motor
doesn't cost $145 even if some cost $300. My
attic fan (although less powerful) is the
equivalent of a $50 fan (housing and all, probably
a $30 motor) today and runs a lot more than my AC
fan and continues to work just fine after 29 years
since I change the thrust washers.

BTW, any business in my town can get to my house
in less than 20 minutes, more than likely between
10 and 15 minutes as long as they don't stop for
coffee. So I would suspect that changing the fan
motor would take less than 1-1/4 hours from shop
to shop, but why would he go back to the shop, the
next call is just as likely only 5-10 minutes away
or don't they preplan the maintenance route?. If
the customer is 2 hours away, tell him upfront
that travel time will cost a bundle, so he might
want to consider other options.

No, the area is not depressed, it is actually one
of the fastest (way to fast) growing area in the
U.S. Why? Do you charge less in depressed areas?
My experience is that stuff costs much more in
little towns and backwater areas than they do in a
growing city. Just the taxes seem to rise fast.
  #17   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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TURTLE wrote:
"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:1HMCe.5937$N91.3302@trnddc08...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote


Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and oil
the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking to me
and answering my questions.


Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.



This is Turtle.

Bubba is George's Brother in law and had not seen each other in a week or so .

TURTLE


No need to get nasty Turtle, just relating an
actual experience. I've been screwed a few times
but never at the costs that many on this relate.
My gas furnace and water heater (no gas before)
cost about $2200 5 years ago. A friend of mine at
the same time had a much larger furnace unit
installed plus he replaced his AC all for $3200.

BTW, anyone with the name of Bubba would have to
show real initiative to live this far away from
Bubba land. Don't think I would trust anyone with
a Bubba name, or Billy Joe Bob either. Would just
figure they got lost and couldn't find their way
home.
  #18   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Stretch wrote:

Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is
shot. And, $200 to $350 for a motor is a rip off.
What is to diagnose? it either continues to
squeal after adding oil or it doesn't.
Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how
klutzy one is--unplug the fan wires and remove a
few bolts.



Yea...ok.
How about a two speed Trane, or York fan? American Standard two speed?
Wholesale is over $200 for those.
What about a Carrier OEM motor? Totaline LOVES those...almost $150 for one.



If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has
any mechanical skills, he ought get the model
number, go to a parts place and order the motor
(and fan blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of
which he spent talking to me and answering my
questions.



No way he did it correctly then, since in order to " add gas" properly, you
have to check subcool, or super heat and this takes at least 15 minutes to
do properly. Then, after adding, he has to recheck it again. BTW, the
pressures mean NOTHING. Nada....One of my guage sets does not even have
pressures on it, but temps, depending on the refrigerant in question.
Hint...its not the pressure that matters as much as the temps of the
refrigerant in question, based upon the superheat, or subcool.

He stole your $50 man....even if you think its working fine, he stole your
money....reached right in your pocket and stole it.
20 minutes for $50...hes charging over $100 per hour for stealing.
Damn..I gotta raise my rates since we do it right....


So what makes you think he didn't check the temps?
All my wife told him was that it didn't seem to
be cooling quite right after she heard a gurgle.
(personally I didn't agree with my wife but it did
seem to cool a bit better).

How do you check the subcool and the super heat?
Do you go inside? I've never seen an AC guy check
a unit by going inside the house! Hell I don't
know exactly what he did.

Maybe he was here more than 25 minutes. How about
35 minutes, would that satisfy you? No? need to
be 45 minutes, may an hour would be better. Not
enough money yet for a simple problem? How about
an hour and a half?

Ok, I would be more satisfied if he was here for
an hour and a half and charged me $200 and added 2
pounds that I didn't need. Hows that!.


  #19   Report Post  
badgolferman
 
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badgolferman, 7/17/2005, 9:47:32 PM, wrote:

My home A/C Carrier brand outside unit fan is squealing. It is
probably 15 years old but I don't know for sure since I've lived here
for seven years and the house was built in 1990. When I bang on the
cover it goes away for a while.

Is this something I can remove and grease the bearings or is it a
sealed unit and not worth fixing?

If I call a repairman what should I expect pricewise?

If this is repairable any advice would be welcome. Thanks.


I have since looked at the fan up close and would like to report my
observations.

Fan model and specifications:
5KCP39BG K497S
220 VAC, 0.9 Amp, 1/8 HP, 1100 RPM

Apparently when I removed the cover which the fan is also attached to I
broke the ground terminal lug from the chassis. Being an electronic
technician, fortunately I had the equipment to repair this. I had an
oiler with a needle attached that had 5W machine oil which I used to
drip a bunch of oil down the shaft. The shaft spun smoothly before and
after oiling so maybe there hasn't been too much damage. It's been
running straight for three hours since SE VA is very hot today and my
wife had shut off the A/C for fear of it breaking while I was gone to
work today. I haven't heard any squealing or screeching yet so I am
keeping my fingers crossed.

Tomorrow I will call local shops and locate a replacement just in case.
Thanks to everyone who responded.

--
No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.
  #20   Report Post  
Stretch
 
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George,
If he just checked the Freon pressures, he is a hack! No wonder he is
so fast, it is easy to do a half assed job quickly. Every manufacturer
of AC equipment that I am familiar with uses suction superheat charts
to charge systems with piston metering devices and liquid subcooling
charts to charge systems with expansion valve metering devices.
If he checked the pressures, and added Freon, he did it wrong! He
should have checked the indoor wet bulb temperature, the outdoor dry
bulb temperature, the suction line or liquid line temperature
(depending on metering device) and the pressures. Then he can
determine if the charge is correct.

Stretch



  #21   Report Post  
Stretch
 
Posts: n/a
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George wrote:
I'm probably full of it, as
I said replacement, but I really meant removal
only

Yes, I agree, you probably are (full of it). But then, that is your
right.

Stretch

  #22   Report Post  
Stretch
 
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It takes 10 to 15 minutes for the suction temperatures to completely
settle out after the unit is started, based on my data loggers. So it
should have been running that long before he checked it. Then when he
was done charging it, he should have watched it for at least 10 minutes
more. A mis-charged unit will not cool properly nor will it get rated
efficiency.

George E. Cawthon wrote:


So what makes you think he didn't check the temps?
All my wife told him was that it didn't seem to
be cooling quite right after she heard a gurgle.
(personally I didn't agree with my wife but it did
seem to cool a bit better).

How do you check the subcool and the super heat?
Do you go inside? I've never seen an AC guy check
a unit by going inside the house! Hell I don't
know exactly what he did.



In fact, to achieve rated efficiency, it must have the proper charge,
the correct air flow, be the proper size, and have a correvct equipment
match between the outdoor unit and the indoor coil.

If your tech never goes inside to measure the indoor temperature, he
cannot follow the manufacturer's recommendation. I would suggest that
you get a new service company to get your unit serviced properly. By
your own description, it was serviced improperly.

The price is not the main issue, but the amount of time. Unless he is a
super hero who can warp time, he cannot do a proper job using your time
estimates. The price will vary with wholesale prices, exact motor
models, company overhead costs, labor rates for your area, insurance
rates, average travel times etc. Every company is different. That is
why I gave such a wide range of prices.

Not trying to be a smart alec, just trying to do it right.

By the way, I can get you a great deal on a YUGO, you seem like the
kind of guy who likes to save money that way! Be careful how you save
money, it can cost you in the end!

Stretch

  #23   Report Post  
~^Johnny^~
 
Posts: n/a
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:09:09 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor.


What's this "add a little bit of gas" bit I keep hearing about?

Doesn't anybody fix leaks these days?

It's all I can do to keep a straight face when I'm in a place like a
thrift store, and I hear a salesman tell a customer: "This
[refrigerator] works fine. Our repair guy had a look at it, and all
it needed was a shot of Freon".


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Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQtxUTwIk7T39FC4ZEQJUbQCgs8kkKXaglYiOjmL5+sC/ezLP1ScAn3kV
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
  #24   Report Post  
meirman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In alt.home.repair on Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:35:34 GMT "Gideon"
posted:


QUIRT EVANS wrote:

most all newer fan motors are sealed

Somewhat true.

and will need to be replaced.

Absolutely not true.


So what does one to rehab a sealed fan motor?



Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
  #25   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Stretch wrote:

Sounds like the fan bearings are shot. When it starts to squeal, It is
usually too late to oil it. However, you can try if it has oil ports
on the side of the motor. Add 20 drops of 20 or 30 weight
non-detergent motor oil to each port. DO NOT use WD40 or sewing
machine oil or penetrating oil. Use a squeeze bottle with a small
nozzle on the end to get the oil in.

If that doesn't help, you are looking at $200.00 to $350.00 depending
on rates in your area. Should take 1.5 to 2 hours to diagnose and
replace the motor. You will pay more if the fan blade cannot be
reused.

Stretch


A squeal doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is
shot. And, $200 to $350 for a motor is a rip off.
What is to diagnose? it either continues to
squeal after adding oil or it doesn't.
Replacement, at least in my unit, shouldn't take
more than 1/2 hour start to finish no matter how
klutzy one is--unplug the fan wires and remove a
few bolts.



Yea...ok.
How about a two speed Trane, or York fan? American Standard two speed?
Wholesale is over $200 for those.
What about a Carrier OEM motor? Totaline LOVES those...almost $150 for

one.



If the oil doesn't fix the OP's fan and the OP has
any mechanical skills, he ought get the model
number, go to a parts place and order the motor
(and fan blade if needed), and replace it himself.

Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of
which he spent talking to me and answering my
questions.



No way he did it correctly then, since in order to " add gas" properly,

you
have to check subcool, or super heat and this takes at least 15 minutes

to
do properly. Then, after adding, he has to recheck it again. BTW, the
pressures mean NOTHING. Nada....One of my guage sets does not even have
pressures on it, but temps, depending on the refrigerant in question.
Hint...its not the pressure that matters as much as the temps of the
refrigerant in question, based upon the superheat, or subcool.

He stole your $50 man....even if you think its working fine, he stole

your
money....reached right in your pocket and stole it.
20 minutes for $50...hes charging over $100 per hour for stealing.
Damn..I gotta raise my rates since we do it right....


So what makes you think he didn't check the temps?
All my wife told him was that it didn't seem to
be cooling quite right after she heard a gurgle.
(personally I didn't agree with my wife but it did
seem to cool a bit better).



Because to properly charge a unit, its going to take 15-20 min for the temps
to stabilize...in ORDER TO DO IT RIGHT, and he might have to do it more than
one time.

How do you check the subcool and the super heat?
Do you go inside? I've never seen an AC guy check
a unit by going inside the house! Hell I don't
know exactly what he did.


He BETTER have gone inside. If he didnt, he raped you hard man.


Maybe he was here more than 25 minutes. How about
35 minutes, would that satisfy you? No? need to
be 45 minutes, may an hour would be better. Not
enough money yet for a simple problem? How about
an hour and a half?


I dunno man....I know I charged on tonight, was there for 3 hours to insure
all was correct, (had to service the unit properly too) and the bill was
under $200...we dont charge for R22.


Ok, I would be more satisfied if he was here for
an hour and a half and charged me $200 and added 2
pounds that I didn't need. Hows that!.


You sure he added half a pound?
What kind of scale did he use as he was charging your unit?
Seriously...no flame here man...asking legit questions cause it looks like
you got raped.





  #26   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
TURTLE wrote:
"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:1HMCe.5937$N91.3302@trnddc08...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote


Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a tech
check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and oil
the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent talking to me
and answering my questions.

Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.



This is Turtle.

Bubba is George's Brother in law and had not seen each other in a week or so
.

TURTLE

No need to get nasty Turtle, just relating an actual experience. I've been
screwed a few times but never at the costs that many on this relate. My gas
furnace and water heater (no gas before) cost about $2200 5 years ago. A
friend of mine at the same time had a much larger furnace unit installed plus
he replaced his AC all for $3200.

BTW, anyone with the name of Bubba would have to show real initiative to live
this far away from Bubba land. Don't think I would trust anyone with a Bubba
name, or Billy Joe Bob either. Would just figure they got lost and couldn't
find their way home.


This is turtle

The words you speak about the Billy Bob that sends people to the cleaner i see
everyday and they are getting bigger and bigger by being able to get away with
it and no one is saying a ord to them. I have two in my town and they are well
educated and can talk the walk about hvac equipment but they just change stuff
that has no business being changed out.

just warn everybody you can when you see them again.

TURTLE


  #27   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:09:09 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:


It only cost me
$50 bucks to have a tech check the gas pressures
and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas, and
oil the motor.



What's this "add a little bit of gas" bit I keep hearing about?

Doesn't anybody fix leaks these days?

It's all I can do to keep a straight face when I'm in a place like a
thrift store, and I hear a salesman tell a customer: "This
[refrigerator] works fine. Our repair guy had a look at it, and all
it needed was a shot of Freon".


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQtxUTwIk7T39FC4ZEQJUbQCgs8kkKXaglYiOjmL5+sC/ezLP1ScAn3kV
sznU3qSDw0/KFUNz3qXI0nVu
=Lx9J
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

The unit had run for nearly 25 years with no
service. Not much of a leak. Actually he was
hesitant about the need to add any Freon but after
repeating some test put some in. And no, he
wasn't one of the guys that carrys a five pound
can, squirts some in the air and then charges $10
per pound for for 2-3 pounds.
  #28   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Stretch wrote:
It takes 10 to 15 minutes for the suction temperatures to completely
settle out after the unit is started, based on my data loggers. So it
should have been running that long before he checked it. Then when he
was done charging it, he should have watched it for at least 10 minutes
more. A mis-charged unit will not cool properly nor will it get rated
efficiency.

George E. Cawthon wrote:


So what makes you think he didn't check the temps?
All my wife told him was that it didn't seem to
be cooling quite right after she heard a gurgle.
(personally I didn't agree with my wife but it did
seem to cool a bit better).

How do you check the subcool and the super heat?
Do you go inside? I've never seen an AC guy check
a unit by going inside the house! Hell I don't
know exactly what he did.



In fact, to achieve rated efficiency, it must have the proper charge,
the correct air flow, be the proper size, and have a correvct equipment
match between the outdoor unit and the indoor coil.

If your tech never goes inside to measure the indoor temperature, he
cannot follow the manufacturer's recommendation. I would suggest that
you get a new service company to get your unit serviced properly. By
your own description, it was serviced improperly.

The price is not the main issue, but the amount of time. Unless he is a
super hero who can warp time, he cannot do a proper job using your time
estimates. The price will vary with wholesale prices, exact motor
models, company overhead costs, labor rates for your area, insurance
rates, average travel times etc. Every company is different. That is
why I gave such a wide range of prices.

Not trying to be a smart alec, just trying to do it right.

By the way, I can get you a great deal on a YUGO, you seem like the
kind of guy who likes to save money that way! Be careful how you save
money, it can cost you in the end!

Stretch


Ok, one last time. I know nothing about AC, but
am rather sceptical about the so called science of
adjusting the units. First, I have never had an
AC on a car that was fixed for some reason or
other that provided really cold air. Three
experiences, so far. I had one AC on a car that
was leaking and just added Freon, I don't know how
much, maybe a pound and it worked fine for about 4
months before, did it the next summer, with the
same result and then sold the car. I currently
have three vehicles ranging from 11 years to 5
years old with original ACs that have never been
touched and continue to provide very cold air.
That experience leads me to believe that many if
not most auto AC mechanics don't know what they
are doing. Note that, in one case it cost over
$300 just to get one leaking unit sealed dryer
changed, and working (but not well).

Second, the house AC we are talking about was
working adequately, just a problem with my
worry-wart wife. (She also questions the water
drip when the car is parked, and the gurgle from
the freezer, all of which are natural) The home
unit has worked slightly better (slightly colder
temps by my perception) for nearly 2 summers since
serviced.

Third, Before I retired I saw guys all the time
working on building AC units-big AC companies, 3-8
story buildings (one was a Federal Courthouse, one
was a brand new building that they kept fixing for
years) and the units were always having problems.
They dripped water inside, they didn't run, they
didn't provide enough cool, the fans would quit, etc.

Improperly serviced or not, it works and I didn't
have it serviced every year at a cost of
replacing every 10-15 years. Based on the Carrier
Manual of what maintenance should include,
maintenance is mostly just visual of electrical
connections and cleaning filters and coils.
Around here they want $50-80 for AC and if you
include a gas furnace they want $80 each spring
and fall.
  #29   Report Post  
Dr. Hardcrab
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"George E. Cawthon" wrote
Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote


Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a
tech check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of gas,
and oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent
talking to me and answering my questions.



Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed
that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.


Sceptic and snotty, huh? Well it was relay 15 percent more but they give
a discount for old people.
Yep, too bad repair persons around here are competent and charge
reasonable amounts. Probably will get the incompetents and high chargers
in a few more years when all the honest people are replaced by
infiltratetees from California.


So I guess you blew him too?


  #30   Report Post  
Stretch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

George wrote:

Ok, one last time. I know nothing about AC, but
am rather sceptical about the so called science of
adjusting the units. First, I have never had an
AC on a car that was fixed for some reason or
other that provided really cold air.


Since you know nothing about AC, why are you plastering your opinion
all over the walls of the internet? Second, you seem to go to
companies whose techs don't know what they are doing as well. Do you
think that doing things wrong should be the standard of the industry?
Why?

Many times I hear "You can't buy anything good any more." The fact is
that you can, but if you always buy on price alone, as you seem to do,
you won't get the good stuff



Second, the house AC we are talking about was
working adequately, just a problem with my
worry-wart wife. (She also questions the water
drip when the car is parked, and the gurgle from
the freezer, all of which are natural) The home
unit has worked slightly better (slightly colder
temps by my perception) for nearly 2 summers since
serviced.

You say it was working adequately, but don't know if it was working
RIGHT! Your power company loves you, dude! I don't believ anything
you own is ever fixed right!


Third, Before I retired I saw guys all the time
working on building AC units-big AC companies, 3-8
story buildings (one was a Federal Courthouse, one
was a brand new building that they kept fixing for
years) and the units were always having problems.
They dripped water inside, they didn't run, they
didn't provide enough cool, the fans would quit, etc.


Again, low bid, not high quality gets the job. An d you think that
that is the state of the art! Did you ever fly Value Jet? You don't
always get what you pay for, but you don't get what you don't pay for!
Stop buying cheap, then telling everyone that that is the best you can
do! Buy better stuff and hire better techs, your life will improve in
the long run!

"I know nothing about AC, but
am rather sceptical about the so called science of
adjusting the units."

Since you are sceptical about science, maybe you should go back to
living in caves. No science there to bother you.

Stretch



  #31   Report Post  
Odin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Let's see.....1 squealing fan....or.....
having a house in 90s° F with 100% humidity. I have no A/C. I'd love
to hear a fan squeal.

I have to laugh at the weather channel making a big deal out of 110
temps in the south west. That is DRY heat and is nothing compared to
having high humidity. Been out west when it's hot and dry and it's
not so bad. The only thing is my skin feels like there are bugs on it
because my skin is drying out.
  #32   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Stretch wrote:
George wrote:

Ok, one last time. I know nothing about AC, but
am rather sceptical about the so called science of
adjusting the units. First, I have never had an
AC on a car that was fixed for some reason or
other that provided really cold air.


Since you know nothing about AC, why are you plastering your opinion
all over the walls of the internet? Second, you seem to go to
companies whose techs don't know what they are doing as well. Do you
think that doing things wrong should be the standard of the industry?
Why?

Many times I hear "You can't buy anything good any more." The fact is
that you can, but if you always buy on price alone, as you seem to do,
you won't get the good stuff



Second, the house AC we are talking about was
working adequately, just a problem with my
worry-wart wife. (She also questions the water
drip when the car is parked, and the gurgle from
the freezer, all of which are natural) The home
unit has worked slightly better (slightly colder
temps by my perception) for nearly 2 summers since
serviced.

You say it was working adequately, but don't know if it was working
RIGHT! Your power company loves you, dude! I don't believ anything
you own is ever fixed right!


Third, Before I retired I saw guys all the time
working on building AC units-big AC companies, 3-8
story buildings (one was a Federal Courthouse, one
was a brand new building that they kept fixing for
years) and the units were always having problems.
They dripped water inside, they didn't run, they
didn't provide enough cool, the fans would quit, etc.


Again, low bid, not high quality gets the job. An d you think that
that is the state of the art! Did you ever fly Value Jet? You don't
always get what you pay for, but you don't get what you don't pay for!
Stop buying cheap, then telling everyone that that is the best you can
do! Buy better stuff and hire better techs, your life will improve in
the long run!

"I know nothing about AC, but
am rather sceptical about the so called science of
adjusting the units."

Since you are sceptical about science, maybe you should go back to
living in caves. No science there to bother you.

Stretch

Stretch is a a good name for you. You really
reach for conclusion with no data and you don't
discern the differences in words and phrases. For
example, "science" and "so called science" are
miles apart. You like to set up statements and
then show that they have poor support. But you
can't discern that it is your statements and not
mine. Bye.
  #33   Report Post  
 
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Default


"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:235De.5763$JJ.5236@trnddc09...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote
Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote


Glad I don't live where you are. It only cost me $50 bucks to have a
tech check the gas pressures and voltages/amps, add a little bit of

gas,
and oil the motor. Took about 20-25 minutes, most of which he spent
talking to me and answering my questions.


Did the cost include a 6 pack of beer for Bubba too?

Added "a little bit of gas", huh? How did he determined that it needed
that?

I hate to see what happens if you have a real problem.


Sceptic and snotty, huh? Well it was relay 15 percent more but they

give
a discount for old people.
Yep, too bad repair persons around here are competent and charge
reasonable amounts. Probably will get the incompetents and high

chargers
in a few more years when all the honest people are replaced by
infiltratetees from California.


So I guess you blew him too?


Obviously, hes not aware of the market in CA..LOL



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